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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » How much of the “little things”?

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54 posts found
  WellzyC

Novice Member

Joined: 10/04/11
Posts: 546

Ceaseless

 
OP  4/10/13 8:19:42 AM#1

 

 

One of my biggest gripes with mmos lately is the how devs overlook the little things about a game making it feel less like a virtual world and more of a shallow, artificial experience.

 

Some examples of recent games is SWTORs not being able to sit in chairs, GW2’s not being able to hand anything to anyone, WoW’s not being able to set things on the ground, Things like that.

 

Today’s mmos have really scewed off and are focusing on being the next e-sport, achievement grinding, cutscene, fast paced "action movie" type of game style. MMos used to be about immersion and living a virtual life through your character in a game world, and I think devs are just really missing the point of what the MMO title really means.

 

MMos need to slow it down, and not focus so much on just burning through scripted content to max level in a stale environment, and remembering that players want to stop and smell the roses. Enjoy a world to explore with mystery, to be able to create their own goals without following a linear path through a story.

----

 

Ranting aside, one of the things I really appreciated about the elder scrolls games was the attention to detail when it came to interacting with your environment. Being able to take stuff off a table, organizing books on a shelf, moving dead bodies around.

 

But not just your environment, I enjoyed being able to pick locks, and I’m not taking about boring lock picking (ie just clicking on a locked chest and unlocking it based on your lock pick skill vs the lvl of the lock) but actually having to pick the lock yourself and turning it. Fun fun!

 

MMOs of late focus entirely on scripted story lines and not so much on the meat and potatoes of a game that really make it feel like a role playing game.

 

 

So my question is:

 

 

Based off of pax preview information, and current gameplay information, will ESO follow suit with other elder scrolls games and have the “little things” like lock picking, moving objects, retrieving arrows, leaving a horse, opening doors and drawers? Or will it be more of the same; lifeless, shallow, going from quest to quest, overly scripted game like recent titles?

The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, Linear Questing, Cut-Scenes...


www.CeaselessGuild.com

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

4/10/13 8:33:54 AM#2
They have already clearly said that movable items will not be in. The sheer number of problems they cause is huge. We also have infinite arrows, so why would you need to retrieve them?  As for lockpicking I am split on. There are a number of players that just cannot stand it.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  WellzyC

Novice Member

Joined: 10/04/11
Posts: 546

Ceaseless

 
OP  4/10/13 8:45:00 AM#3
The lock picking in Skyrim was gold, don't know why anyone would dislike that

The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, Linear Questing, Cut-Scenes...


www.CeaselessGuild.com

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

4/10/13 9:00:07 AM#4

IMO the mmo genre needs to progress.  They keep trying to copy other MMOs and streamline the features, which usually means the little things get passed over.  In my opinion, ESO is more of the same.  We'll be lucky if we're able to sit down or /wave at other players.  These features are not taken seriously by developers and I think many players overlook the importance of the little things.

I would love to see a MMO put the RPG back in MMORPG.

  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2625

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

4/10/13 9:02:28 AM#5
I agree whole heartedly with you OP.

  Eladi

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/23/06
Posts: 1051

4/10/13 9:19:32 AM#6

I have asked this question on every MMO in development forum there is, unfortunate its only a small group of player that know the real power of these small things. (tho sitting aint realy a small thing to design its harder then it looks/sounds in a mmo) 

but if TESO wont have the ability to sit in every damn chair i see I will instandly quit ..or better I try to find out before so I dont waiste any money

  WellzyC

Novice Member

Joined: 10/04/11
Posts: 546

Ceaseless

 
OP  4/10/13 9:37:08 AM#7

 

I probably put 200 hours into Skyrim before I did one single quest line.

 

If an mmo could match that kind of immersion it would be the greatest game on the market.

The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, Linear Questing, Cut-Scenes...


www.CeaselessGuild.com

  WellzyC

Novice Member

Joined: 10/04/11
Posts: 546

Ceaseless

 
OP  4/10/13 9:39:40 AM#8

 

That sort of gameplay is far more exciting and memorable too..

 

I cant tell you the plot of any quest I did in SWTOR or the TSW..  But I remember with great detail in daoc how someone placed swords down on the ground in the center of Drum Ligen in the shape of a Giant penis.   My sides where in pain from laughing.

The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, Linear Questing, Cut-Scenes...


www.CeaselessGuild.com

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

4/10/13 9:46:39 AM#9
Originally posted by WellzyC

So my question is:

Based off of pax preview information, and current gameplay information, will ESO follow suit with other elder scrolls games and have the “little things” like lock picking, moving objects, retrieving arrows, leaving a horse, opening doors and drawers? Or will it be more of the same; lifeless, shallow, going from quest to quest, overly scripted game like recent titles?

No. Outside of the graphics, names of places and NPCs this game will have very little that was TES.

The one un-arguable aspect of this game is simple.

If you removed the graphics and names of places and people, would this game make you say "hey, this is a TES clone!" or would it make you say "Is this DaoC 2?". It is the later.

Its a shame too, because so many other TES aspects have been in MMOs before so we know it can be done.

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

4/10/13 10:03:18 AM#10
Originally posted by JasonJ

Its a shame too, because so many other TES aspects have been in MMOs before so we know it can be done.

It is a horrible shame.  TES games have been redefining the RPG genre for years, including many MMOs.  When TES finally gets a MMO, the developers try to copy another game.

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2638

110100100

4/10/13 10:11:00 AM#11


Originally posted by JasonJ

Originally posted by WellzyC So my question is: Based off of pax preview information, and current gameplay information, will ESO follow suit with other elder scrolls games and have the “little things” like lock picking, moving objects, retrieving arrows, leaving a horse, opening doors and drawers? Or will it be more of the same; lifeless, shallow, going from quest to quest, overly scripted game like recent titles?
No. Outside of the graphics, names of places and NPCs this game will have very little that was TES.

The one un-arguable aspect of this game is simple.

If you removed the graphics and names of places and people, would this game make you say "hey, this is a TES clone!" or would it make you say "Is this DaoC 2?". It is the later.

Its a shame too, because so many other TES aspects have been in MMOs before so we know it can be done.


are you talking about the pvp aspect only? because the pve of this game and combat is nothing like Daoc so i am not sure what you are trying to imply.

if you honestly believe that this entire game is more like Daoc than TES, i think you have been vastly misinformed or you never played Daoc lol

yes this game will have factions like daoc, yes it will have RvR style pvp like daoc.

beyond that, can you tell me what it will have in common with Daoc? because it sure as hell isn't the combat or anything else regarding pve that i can tell.

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2638

110100100

4/10/13 10:16:59 AM#12


Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by JasonJ Its a shame too, because so many other TES aspects have been in MMOs before so we know it can be done.
It is a horrible shame.  TES games have been redefining the RPG genre for years, including many MMOs.  When TES finally gets a MMO, the developers try to copy another game.

yes, let them make a mmo exactly like the single player games with no end game features at all, is that what you want?


the aspects of daoc they are adopting adds another dynamic to the game, it doesn't take away from it except for faction lock.

the rest of the game, you could argue they took from GW2 and TES series.

people that say this game is just a Daoc rip off (talking about the whole game not just the pvp) are clearly misinformed and are spreading nonsense.

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

4/10/13 10:29:12 AM#13
Originally posted by baphamet

No. Outside of the graphics, names of places and NPCs this game will have very little that was TES.

 

The one un-arguable aspect of this game is simple.

If you removed the graphics and names of places and people, would this game make you say "hey, this is a TES clone!" or would it make you say "Is this DaoC 2?". It is the later.

Its a shame too, because so many other TES aspects have been in MMOs before so we know it can be done.


 

are you talking about the pvp aspect only? because the pve of this game and combat is nothing like Daoc so i am not sure what you are trying to imply.

if you honestly believe that this entire game is more like Daoc than TES, i think you have been vastly misinformed or you never played Daoc lol

yes this game will have factions like daoc, yes it will have RvR style pvp like daoc.

beyond that, can you tell me what it will have in common with Daoc? because it sure as hell isn't the combat or anything else regarding pve that i can tell.

I have noticed a sad trend on this site, whenever someone is talking out their backside they always follow it with "lol".

So you think TESO combat is like TES? Really? I dont recall having to equip a healing staff to auqment healing, or a fire staff  or a lightning staff...

Thats right, you can raise all of them like in TES...but you are limited to 5 skills/spells and your spell types are limited to what you have equiped. So, they are still forcing a trinity situation while at the same time allowing you to pick which you want at a given time. That is not TES. Its a false attempt at being a little different than other MMOs. There was zero point in creating an open system and then tacking on that kind of limitation. Not only that, but they announced anything about there being NO LIMIT to the amount of points you can earn in skills, Like, do you stop earing experience in your skills when you hit 50? Is there a skill cap to how many points you can raise your skills per level? Un-answered questions.

Also, PvE CANNOT be like it is in TES because every mob will have SET levels. In TES, mobs level WITH YOU so all content remains 100% viable which is not the case in TESO where zones will have levels and once you outlevel them you are funneled ever closer to the moronic PvP setup set in a central area.

One has to squint to find the TES in TESO beyond the graphics and names.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17121

4/10/13 10:34:51 AM#14
Originally posted by WellzyC
The lock picking in Skyrim was gold, don't know why anyone would dislike that

There is lock picking.

I'm embarrassed to say that I did try to sit in a chair and can't for the life of me remember if it "happened" or not.

I know I tried and nothing happened. But a part of me seems to think that it might have worked on other chairs? It's really cloudy.

There are items around that you can read but you weren't able to pick them up.

You an steal items and there is some sort of penalty for being caught.

We were warned that we could take items but that the system wasn't in place yet.

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

4/10/13 10:35:34 AM#15
Originally posted by baphamet

yes, let them make a mmo exactly like the single player games with no end game features at all, is that what you want?


the aspects of daoc they are adopting adds another dynamic to the game, it doesn't take away from it except for faction lock.

the rest of the game, you could argue they took from GW2 and TES series.

people that say this game is just a Daoc rip off (talking about the whole game not just the pvp) are clearly misinformed and are spreading nonsense.

No, we want a TES MMO like TES and there are plenty of open world MMOs that show it can be done.

The aspects of DaoC they are adopting does not ADD dynamics, it takes them away. You can have faction based war without the close faction lands and sure as hell can have a world at war, by having that war all over the world instead of some closed off place that keeps your homelands safe.

The design detracts, it does add.

Good MMOs = world is at war and any place can be attacked, creating faction pride by defending your homeland, what is YOURS, its us vs them because they are trying to take what is ours.

Bad MMO= world is at war, but only in a place behind a magical wall keeping what is yours, safe, and has you fighting over something that really doesnt matter but developers try to create your pride for you anyway, mostly by using a form of race based us vs them.

It has already been proven it can be done the TES way, open world, mixed races allowing for far more game play and far less limitations.

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

4/10/13 10:36:31 AM#16
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by JasonJ Its a shame too, because so many other TES aspects have been in MMOs before so we know it can be done.
It is a horrible shame.  TES games have been redefining the RPG genre for years, including many MMOs.  When TES finally gets a MMO, the developers try to copy another game.

yes, let them make a mmo exactly like the single player games with no end game features at all, is that what you want?

Last time I checked, Oblivion (rank 207) has more players than DAoC (rank 431).  Skyrim is currently ranked 32 on xfire, it has more retention than many other MMOs.  In TES, the game ends when you stop playing it - I could care less for "end game content".  I wanted the little things that defined the TES franchise.

the aspects of daoc they are adopting adds another dynamic to the game, it doesn't take away from it except for faction lock.

Why would TES players want a RvR dynamic to their game in the first place?  Don't get me wrong, I would've liked some kind of PvP system but not at the cost of core elements (like faction/area locks).

the rest of the game, you could argue they took from GW2 and TES series.

people that say this game is just a Daoc rip off (talking about the whole game not just the pvp) are clearly misinformed and are spreading nonsense.

Why are they taking ANYTHING from other games?

TES games have more depth and dynamics than most MMOs out right now.  The whole MMO genre is suffering because of ESO's nonsense.

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

4/10/13 10:43:36 AM#17
Yet another topic ruined by the zomg faction lock Daoc is shit.
 
For so many of those "features" that used to be around just stop and think why they no longer exist. Here is a hint, it is not because of playing copycat. We cannot have nice things because players are douchebags. They have demanded to get rid of things, like mob camping, so we get instances. Players doing things like lagging the server in UO (amongst other games) is why we can no longer toss stuff on the ground. Stop and think and hell, use google, learn something.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

4/10/13 10:46:31 AM#18
Originally posted by JasonJ
Originally posted by baphamet

No. Outside of the graphics, names of places and NPCs this game will have very little that was TES.

 

The one un-arguable aspect of this game is simple.

If you removed the graphics and names of places and people, would this game make you say "hey, this is a TES clone!" or would it make you say "Is this DaoC 2?". It is the later.

Its a shame too, because so many other TES aspects have been in MMOs before so we know it can be done.


 

are you talking about the pvp aspect only? because the pve of this game and combat is nothing like Daoc so i am not sure what you are trying to imply.

if you honestly believe that this entire game is more like Daoc than TES, i think you have been vastly misinformed or you never played Daoc lol

yes this game will have factions like daoc, yes it will have RvR style pvp like daoc.

beyond that, can you tell me what it will have in common with Daoc? because it sure as hell isn't the combat or anything else regarding pve that i can tell.

I have noticed a sad trend on this site, whenever someone is talking out their backside they always follow it with "lol".

So you think TESO combat is like TES? Really? I dont recall having to equip a healing staff to auqment healing, or a fire staff  or a lightning staff...

Thats right, you can raise all of them like in TES...but you are limited to 5 skills/spells and your spell types are limited to what you have equiped. So, they are still forcing a trinity situation while at the same time allowing you to pick which you want at a given time. That is not TES. Its a false attempt at being a little different than other MMOs. There was zero point in creating an open system and then tacking on that kind of limitation. Not only that, but they announced anything about there being NO LIMIT to the amount of points you can earn in skills, Like, do you stop earing experience in your skills when you hit 50? Is there a skill cap to how many points you can raise your skills per level? Un-answered questions.

Also, PvE CANNOT be like it is in TES because every mob will have SET levels. In TES, mobs level WITH YOU so all content remains 100% viable which is not the case in TESO where zones will have levels and once you outlevel them you are funneled ever closer to the moronic PvP setup set in a central area.

One has to squint to find the TES in TESO beyond the graphics and names.

So the amount of research you've done on this game is zero, am I right? You saw they were making an Elder Scrolls MMO, went to the forums and immediately started crying foul?

Red Tex - They've stated when you hit 50, you're far from done as you still have all of your skills to raise. Here's an excerpt from an article from MMORPG, the website you're on right now:

"This article may make progression sound intimidating, it is not. If anything it is easy to handle and really does give a lot of options to the player. You can respec certain parts of your character as well just in case you don’t like how it is going. The team also explained that there will be enough skill-points so that you can learn everything, it may just take time.  By the time you hit the level cap of 50, you’ll still have a long way to go before maxing out everything available to you." - Link

The only skills you'll be locked from are the other class/race skills, and if you're a Werewolf or Vampire.

Blue Text - I have noticed a sad trend on this site, whenever someone is talking out their backside they always follow it with over exaggeration.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3431

4/10/13 10:55:44 AM#19
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by JasonJ

Its a shame too, because so many other TES aspects have been in MMOs before so we know it can be done.

It is a horrible shame.  TES games have been redefining the RPG genre for years, including many MMOs.  When TES finally gets a MMO, the developers try to copy another game.

I respect you Sapphen but on this you dead wrong. MMOs are so huge and have so many part that making them can have so many random outcomes no one can see till the doors are open and people are playing. So many MMOs over the years have been trying to create something new and thats a large part of why we have so many failed MMOs. If you are going to make a sandbox PvP game then look at what made SWG so good and take that core model. You want a themepark game then look what whats worked and copy that core model. Add all the modern stuff like Vo acting but make sure the core game is something that worked. Then add your new touch to it.

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

4/10/13 10:57:03 AM#20
Originally posted by rygard49

"This article may make progression sound intimidating, it is not. If anything it is easy to handle and really does give a lot of options to the player. You can respec certain parts of your character as well just in case you don’t like how it is going. The team also explained that there will be enough skill-points so that you can learn everything, it may just take time.  By the time you hit the level cap of 50, you’ll still have a long way to go before maxing out everything available to you." - Link

The only skills you'll be locked from are the other class/race skills, and if you're a Werewolf or Vampire.

Blue Text - I have noticed a sad trend on this site, whenever someone is talking out their backside they always follow it with over exaggeration.

You dont know about game development do you? Its called doublespeak to hide what they dont want you to know.

In MMOs where you can train everything in an unlimited way...you dont need to respec. Respec = either capped or progression slows to a crawl the higher you get meaning you can gimp your character if you dont place points the right way.

Level 30, have points spread over more than a few skills and suddenly you cant kill anything, you need to respec. That is NOT TES like. That means you must pour points into specific skills or end up not being able to do anything, which will lock people into trinity roles. You can come back here and say that is not true but if it IS and that is why you can respec, because you will find a need to place those points someplace else otherwise there would be NO POINT TO RESPECCING because you can just keep raising the skill you wanted!

PS. crafting IS locked, they stated you can either train them all up and be a generalist or master two of them to create the best items in those two skills. Again...not TES.

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