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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Fed up.. There's rules in every game.

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186 posts found
  ariasaitcho

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/20/12
Posts: 112

4/09/13 9:56:00 PM#161
Originally posted by WellzyC

 

In real life there are rules..

 

In games there are rules..

 

Race limitation, Faction locks are rules..

 

Rules make games fun, without rules there is no game..

 

 

Quit complaining about race limitation, and faction lock,... rules have been around since you were 7 years old playing candy land.. get over it.

 

 

Thx, have a great day.

+1

  Sephiroso

Elite Member

Joined: 8/01/05
Posts: 1131

4/09/13 10:48:00 PM#162
Originally posted by ariasaitcho
Originally posted by WellzyC

 

In real life there are rules..

 

In games there are rules..

 

Race limitation, Faction locks are rules..

 

Rules make games fun, without rules there is no game..

 

 

Quit complaining about race limitation, and faction lock,... rules have been around since you were 7 years old playing candy land.. get over it.

 

 

Thx, have a great day.

+1

This is in response to WellzyC, didnt wanna find his original post.

 

First off, learn the difference between a rule and a limitation. Race/faction lock = Limitations. Not Rules. An example of a rule is:  you may not create more than 1 account or you will be banned. or You may not use 3rd party programs to be used with the game, or you will be banned.

 

A limitation is generally a restriction, no ifs ands or buts, you cannot do it period. A rule is, a restriction in itself, most usually related to behavioral restrictions, but they're restrictions where if you cross them, there are consequences, most being banishment.

 

With that being said. Rules do not make games fun. Rules make games playable. Limitations most absolutely do not make games fun. In some instances, limitations can, like rules make games playable, but most limitations are in place for technical reasons. Like a limitation on character size(in games where you can adjust your character's body in creation).

 

What makes a game fun is its features. Like combat, visual features, music and sounds even. Not the rules that are set out for you.

 

/thread


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  KaosProphet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 384

4/10/13 2:11:52 AM#163
Originally posted by WellzyC

 

In real life there are rules..

 

In games there are rules..

And some are good or at least tolerable rules, some are oppressive and/or detrimental, and some are of subjective value only.

Faction lock is the latter type of rule.  (Sephiroso's distinctions between 'limitations' and 'rules' notwithstanding.)

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

4/10/13 7:55:26 AM#164
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Maelwydd

I am sure you have a point but fucked if I can work out what relevence it has to my post.

You said essentially "I want to play a Tamriel simulator".

I said "its not a tamriel simulator".

You said "I know, thats why its poorly designed".

I said "None of the ES games have been Tamriel simulators".

You said "I don't know what that has to do with what I said". 

Bro, do you even english?

"Bro, do you even english?"

Hmmm...I think my answer is yes.

At no point did I say I wanted a Tamriel simulator. I stated there is zero reason for races to be faction locked.

Ah screw it, you are a Troll, end of talking to you.

LOL. Not at all. Your entire argument is founded on the idea that "faction lock is not realistic". The sad thing is NONE OF THE TES GAMES ARE REALISTIC IN THE SLIGHTEST. You guys who keep going off on "immersion" are completely invalid arguments when you consider the sheer number of horribly immersion breaking things that all of the TES games do, when there is no reason for it. The sheer number in Skyrim alone is staggering.

Eso is a game, whatever rules the developers decide to put in place to facilitate that game is entirely up to them. No different than Redguard still being a TES game.

You can't even quote me without twisting my words...

What I say = " there is zero reason for races to be faction locked".

What you think I say = "faction lock is not realistic".

Go away troll.

It's just the old '22 = 2+2 = 4 twostep' used by those without a valid argument...

However - if you are saying 4 = Troll - I understand...

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

4/10/13 8:03:43 AM#165
Originally posted by Caliburn101

It's just the old '22 = 2+2 = 4 twostep' used by those without a valid argument...

However - if you are saying 4 = Troll - I understand...

Nope. You may not accept my argument, but it does not make it any less valid. You do not get to say what is and what is not an Eso title. Just like how "true fans" do not accept the new Star Wars trilogy does not make it any less Star Wars. If the developers say there is faction lock, then that alone is more than enough reason for there to be faction lock.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

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  Arglebargle

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 1158

4/10/13 8:18:19 AM#166
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Caliburn101

It's just the old '22 = 2+2 = 4 twostep' used by those without a valid argument...

However - if you are saying 4 = Troll - I understand...

Nope. You may not accept my argument, but it does not make it any less valid. You do not get to say what is and what is not an Eso title. Just like how "true fans" do not accept the new Star Wars trilogy does not make it any less Star Wars. If the developers say there is faction lock, then that alone is more than enough reason for there to be faction lock.

If the fans say, 'We're not buying it!', the developers often end up  saying 'Do you have a job opening?'  somewhere else.

 

ESO underperforming would definitely cause some business questions to start to roll downhill.  Don't know how much they've spent on this game, but the more they've spent, the less they can afford large blocks of unhappy folks who might have been customers.

 

 

 

 

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  Anakami

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 101

4/10/13 8:18:47 AM#167

Actually...people do get to say what is ESO and what it is not. Because it is their opinion and their own impression. It doesn't really matter what the developers think, because in the end it is the players they are trying to win over with the world they create, and if the players don't buy into it, they will not play.

Because we all want the game to succeed and have fun in it, we give feedback why we are disappointed with some of their design choices, and maybe they will listen and in th end we get something we can all enjoy.

Saying that whatever the developers come up with is Elder Scrolls is only true in a very specific context. Of course it is Elder Scrolls if you go by what is officially approved and by the names and setting they use. The question is rather: for how many is it true? Only the devs making it and those who agree with their decisions?

if they had decided to make it a FPS featuring alien invasions with spaceships and place it in Tamriel, is it still Elder Scrolls? Just because the developers make it? I can't quite agree with that logic.

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

4/10/13 8:49:38 AM#168
Originally posted by Anakami

if they had decided to make it a FPS featuring alien invasions with spaceships and place it in Tamriel, is it still Elder Scrolls? Just because the developers make it? I can't quite agree with that logic.

I dunno, WoW basically did just that for Burning Crusade and it worked out rather well for them. :)

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Anakami

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 101

4/10/13 10:16:49 AM#169
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Anakami

if they had decided to make it a FPS featuring alien invasions with spaceships and place it in Tamriel, is it still Elder Scrolls? Just because the developers make it? I can't quite agree with that logic.

I dunno, WoW basically did just that for Burning Crusade and it worked out rather well for them. :)

I am really not good on WoW lore, but wasn't the Outlands where the Orcs and Draenei originated from? Don't really know if the spacegoats were already established lore or not.

You are right of course, we have to wait until release and maybe a year after that until we see how well their alterations to the lore and game will work out for them :)

  LhynnSaint

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/11
Posts: 122

4/10/13 10:49:36 AM#170

Anyway, i could care less about the 3 faction lock, and i believe everyone else does as well, what we want to be able to do is go to the enemy castle with an elite squad and take it, and start putting buckets on people heads, we want organic emergent gameplay that the TES series is known for.

  znaiika

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/12
Posts: 203

4/10/13 10:59:18 AM#171
Originally posted by LhynnSaint

Anyway, i could care less about the 3 faction lock, and i believe everyone else does as well, what we want to be able to do is go to the enemy castle with an elite squad and take it, and start putting buckets on people heads, we want organic emergent gameplay that the TES series is known for.

I do care about faction lock, then you can't just pick one race and spawn in a different faction lands, because I like "Aldmeri dominion" wooded area and want to pick redguard as my race.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5046

4/10/13 11:01:28 AM#172
Originally posted by WellzyC

 

In real life there are rules..

 

In games there are rules..

 

Race limitation, Faction locks are rules..

 

Rules make games fun, without rules there is no game..

 

 

Quit complaining about race limitation, and faction lock,... rules have been around since you were 7 years old playing candy land.. get over it.

 

 

Thx, have a great day.

What I see here is a very broad, vague and general sweeping statement about life in general used to elicit an emotional response to make people who don't like the game's design feel like they are wrong for feeling that way. Your post does nothing to address the actual feelings the players have one way or another. You haven't presented an argument to back up what it is your post is trying to say.  Please present specifics. Why are these specific rules good? Cite the complaints that made you post this and address them point by point. Please form a solid arguement against those who say they don't like the idea of a game that is supposed to be about exploration while at the same time hampers their ability to do so and why is this a needed rule for the betterment of the game.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  LhynnSaint

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/11
Posts: 122

4/10/13 11:17:45 AM#173
Originally posted by znaiika
Originally posted by LhynnSaint

Anyway, i could care less about the 3 faction lock, and i believe everyone else does as well, what we want to be able to do is go to the enemy castle with an elite squad and take it, and start putting buckets on people heads, we want organic emergent gameplay that the TES series is known for.

I do care about faction lock, then you can't just pick one race and spawn in a different faction lands, because I like "Aldmeri dominion" wooded area and want to pick redguard as my race.

Eh, you can always say "fkem" and go your own way, or at least you should be able to in a TES game :3

  KaosProphet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 384

4/11/13 12:53:56 AM#174
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Caliburn101

It's just the old '22 = 2+2 = 4 twostep' used by those without a valid argument...

However - if you are saying 4 = Troll - I understand...

Nope. You may not accept my argument, but it does not make it any less valid.

Your argument resting on a foundation of attacking what he hasn't actually said, otoh, does make it less valid.

You do not get to say what is and what is not an Eso title. Just like how "true fans" do not accept the new Star Wars trilogy does not make it any less Star Wars. If the developers say there is faction lock, then that alone is more than enough reason for there to be faction lock.

Just like if they'd said "no raids,"  right?

 

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

4/11/13 1:08:28 AM#175
Originally posted by KaosProphet
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Caliburn101

It's just the old '22 = 2+2 = 4 twostep' used by those without a valid argument...

However - if you are saying 4 = Troll - I understand...

Nope. You may not accept my argument, but it does not make it any less valid.

Your argument resting on a foundation of attacking what he hasn't actually said, otoh, does make it less valid.

What? That is exactly what he said. The sheer amount of pot calling the kettle black in his statement is hilarious.

You do not get to say what is and what is not an Eso title. Just like how "true fans" do not accept the new Star Wars trilogy does not make it any less Star Wars. If the developers say there is faction lock, then that alone is more than enough reason for there to be faction lock.

Just like if they'd said "no raids,"  right?

Essentially yes. Though it is fair to question what systems they are putting into place to cater to those sorts of players, or if they are going to cater to those sorts of players at all. If they do not want "raiders" playing their game then they are more than in their right to say it. The problem of course being that is not what they have said. We can quibble over definitions all day, like what is a raid, but "freedom" does not define a Tes game, atleast not anymore than controlling multiple units and balancing your economy defined Warcraft.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

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  Smudgemumble

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/13
Posts: 2

4/11/13 1:30:29 AM#176
So I'm just gunna throw this out there, can you or I or anyone from the continent of North America ally themselves with North Korea?  No, no they can't and even in the unlikely scenario in which you would be allowed into North Korea would you be accepted, trusted, left feeling welcomed, or put to some purpose?  Again, no you wouldn't be (unless your Dennis Rodman, can your Argonian become the Tamrielan equivalent of Dennis Rodman? that has yet to be shown).  Why simpley because of tenous military circumstance and that is more than enough.  Makes sense from a lore standpoint, makes sense for the sake of a cohesive pvp experience,  now if you wanna be a Wookie on Endor thats fine but does it make sense?
  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

4/11/13 6:16:16 AM#177
Originally posted by Smudgemumble
So I'm just gunna throw this out there, can you or I or anyone from the continent of North America ally themselves with North Korea?  No, no they can't and even in the unlikely scenario in which you would be allowed into North Korea would you be accepted, trusted, left feeling welcomed, or put to some purpose?  Again, no you wouldn't be (unless your Dennis Rodman, can your Argonian become the Tamrielan equivalent of Dennis Rodman? that has yet to be shown).  Why simpley because of tenous military circumstance and that is more than enough.  Makes sense from a lore standpoint, makes sense for the sake of a cohesive pvp experience,  now if you wanna be a Wookie on Endor thats fine but does it make sense?

Are you drunk? If not you should reread the discussion.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

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  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

4/11/13 8:11:11 AM#178
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Caliburn101

It's just the old '22 = 2+2 = 4 twostep' used by those without a valid argument...

However - if you are saying 4 = Troll - I understand...

Nope. You may not accept my argument, but it does not make it any less valid. You do not get to say what is and what is not an Eso title. Just like how "true fans" do not accept the new Star Wars trilogy does not make it any less Star Wars. If the developers say there is faction lock, then that alone is more than enough reason for there to be faction lock.

I wasn't talking about the core elements of your argument.

I haven't looked at it in sufficient detail.

I was referring to your apparent effort to twist the words of another to suit your argument. In my opinion - all too common a tactic on these forums.

Zenimax clearly don't agree with your standpoint at this time - having significantly modified the faction lock with a compromise by the very same TES fans who 'do not get to say what is and what is not an Eso title.'

This last fact is weeks old, and in any case, presistent, vocal and numerous consumers do indeed get to dictate to companies trying to sell to them on occassion. I am sure they would prefer to live without consumer pressure groups, but it is a good thing they don't...

If we all had the same philosophy - that something someone else made to appeal to us is theirs to do with as they wish - even in the face of significant complaint, then they wouldn't be motivated to make anything good - they could easily get away with spoon feeding us all drivel as entertainment and we'd pay up anyway without saying a word about it!

Commercial organisations try to produce quality products because they have to - either because of law or marketting pressures. Take these pressures away and they would frequently, if not always, produce rubbish.

  MyTabbycat

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/19/12
Posts: 306

4/11/13 8:21:25 AM#179
People are still complaining about faction locks even though ZOS has implemented 50+ and 50++ content for the other faction zones?
  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

4/11/13 8:29:32 AM#180
Originally posted by MyTabbycat
People are still complaining about faction locks even though ZOS has implemented 50+ and 50++ content for the other faction zones?

I for one think the faction lock compromise made by Zenimax is very clever, and potentially quite workable.

Some however feel that any lock, no matter how implemented, is wrong.

Some feel that any change to the DAoC-style faction lock model is wrong.

That argument will run and run...

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