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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Elder Scrolls Online: An Argument for 'Faction Lock'

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259 posts found
  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16945

4/10/13 7:00:29 AM#121
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Distopia
 

People like to talk as if we've played through this game already, that goes for both sides in this debate. For all we know each faction could play completely different in terms of PVE content; motivations, ideologies, etc.. could be completely different per side. That creates choices based on faction from an RP standpoint, and from the very start of the game. This may not be the case and it could be mirrored content up and down per side. That's the thing about the unknown, it's unkown. Yet we speak about this stuff as if it all happened in the past and we're discussing the end result..

 

 

 

I strongly suspect, given the quests I encountered, that the quests will be pretty much "quests" that have little flavor with regards to different races.

However, at first I read a blurb where the developers mentioned that the npc's wouldn't recognize your race but recently saw a snippet where one of them said they would. So maybe there are small glimmers of hope.

Seeing that they opened the lands for continued pve leveling it makes sense that everyone can do each quest regardless of race.Unless they make flavors of quests for every race which I doubt.

Still, my point stands that picking a faction isn't a moral choice it's a (I want to play x race choice/I want to play with my friend's choice). I suspect there are a good many elder scrolls players who would rather see join factions not based on race but on moral, ethical and idological differrences during the course of game play.

Some people keep saying that mmo's are becoming "dumb" with their myriad fetch quests. So why not have actual quests that truly add depth to the game play?

regarding a poster agove, "no" eve allows you to pick your guild/Alliance and you can then be at war with who you want.

@nanfoodle, WoW took the World of Warcraft RTS and simply allowed one to play as one of the character's that inhabited the world. The problem with some elder scrolls plans is that TESO is simply taking a system from a completely different game and trying to build an Elder Scrolls game around it.

It's not beyond the pale to realize that taking a game that has a long standing evolution and suddenly adding a game play mechanic that not only has little to do with the game but flies the face of what a good part of the series allowed might raise a few questions from players.

 

  znaiika

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/12
Posts: 202

4/10/13 7:01:38 AM#122

Zanimax studio stated, ESO is going to be as close as possible to Elders Scrolls, exsept for some extra hot keys since you can't pause the game to change weapons and use potions.

When you start new play in Skyrim, you get to choose your race you want to play, then you get to decide which faction to choose to fight for, or even stay undecided to the end game, Elder Scrolls never had lock on cirtain race for cpacific Faction, weather it is stormcloaks or imperials, you can play as nord "who are by the way are stormcloaks" and join the imperial faction in a war for Tamriel, or any other race.

What's forcing Zenimax to change the feel of Elder Scrolls lately?

Why not use any other name if Elder Scrolls Online is not going to be as Elder Scrolls?

In every MMO you can actualy see health bars to differ an ally and enemy, this is not the case to lock race to a cirtain faction.

Then what is it?

My best gues is, Zenymax already made lore and they don't want to change that.

ESO is not going to be as Elder Scrolls.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6976

4/10/13 7:51:03 AM#123
Faction locked races are great. Not be able to go where you want is dumb.
  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3360

4/10/13 8:24:37 AM#124
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Distopia
 

People like to talk as if we've played through this game already, that goes for both sides in this debate. For all we know each faction could play completely different in terms of PVE content; motivations, ideologies, etc.. could be completely different per side. That creates choices based on faction from an RP standpoint, and from the very start of the game. This may not be the case and it could be mirrored content up and down per side. That's the thing about the unknown, it's unkown. Yet we speak about this stuff as if it all happened in the past and we're discussing the end result..

 

 

 

I strongly suspect, given the quests I encountered, that the quests will be pretty much "quests" that have little flavor with regards to different races.

However, at first I read a blurb where the developers mentioned that the npc's wouldn't recognize your race but recently saw a snippet where one of them said they would. So maybe there are small glimmers of hope.

Seeing that they opened the lands for continued pve leveling it makes sense that everyone can do each quest regardless of race.Unless they make flavors of quests for every race which I doubt.

Still, my point stands that picking a faction isn't a moral choice it's a (I want to play x race choice/I want to play with my friend's choice). I suspect there are a good many elder scrolls players who would rather see join factions not based on race but on moral, ethical and idological differrences during the course of game play.

Some people keep saying that mmo's are becoming "dumb" with their myriad fetch quests. So why not have actual quests that truly add depth to the game play?

regarding a poster agove, "no" eve allows you to pick your guild/Alliance and you can then be at war with who you want.

@nanfoodle, WoW took the World of Warcraft RTS and simply allowed one to play as one of the character's that inhabited the world. The problem with some elder scrolls plans is that TESO is simply taking a system from a completely different game and trying to build an Elder Scrolls game around it.

It's not beyond the pale to realize that taking a game that has a long standing evolution and suddenly adding a game play mechanic that not only has little to do with the game but flies the face of what a good part of the series allowed might raise a few questions from players.

 

My point is this, games grow and evolve or die. WoW is far from its RTS roots. Mario is no longer on a fixed screen fixing pipes. But enough of the IP has made it to the new game to say I know it. There is a core group of TES fans that are so stuck on things not changing they are missing out on what ESO could become. It can be the best of both world and never done before. Change is good but it hurts and first and its scary. But its fact, grow or die.

Its worked for many video games in the past and it can bring new life to TES family of games. With this attitude we are seeing, many games that are HUGE and EPIC would never have been made because of player feedback. Game companies know what it takes to make great games but they need to stop trying to please everyone. As this is cauing a dumb down effect in our games. Make the game thats going to be great and stop taking every bit of feed back. Only take feedback that is in line with the core vision but stay true to the corse.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3360

4/10/13 8:26:06 AM#125
Originally posted by bcbully
Faction locked races are great. Not be able to go where you want is dumb.

Level 50 you can explore any faction map you want. 

  Maelwydd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1064

4/10/13 8:31:41 AM#126
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by bcbully
Faction locked races are great. Not be able to go where you want is dumb.

Level 50 you can explore any faction map you want. 

Till level 50 though it is invisible wall land!

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3360

4/10/13 8:37:17 AM#127
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by bcbully
Faction locked races are great. Not be able to go where you want is dumb.

Level 50 you can explore any faction map you want. 

Till level 50 though it is invisible wall land!

Every MMO has zone walls, moot point.

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

4/10/13 8:44:43 AM#128
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

So you chuck out the story and quests in TES. Now what do you do thats so themepark that would keep people playing? Wander around not changing the world? Everything set up to tell the quests and story written. Its themepark. Welcome to the themepark MMO taken from its origins.

You have zero clue what you're talking about. Sandbox isn't defined as technically being a game where you can build stuff, that's just what a lot of people think. It has to do with the amount of freedom a game has and TESO will not have much freedom. The Elder Scrolls series is all about playing the way you want to play and has always been that way. What this online versions is, I have no clue because it is most certainly NOT an Elder Scrolls game.

Yes it is very clear that the hardcore DaoC fans here that are not on the CU bandwagon are just arguing to try to get another DaoC game, doesnt seem to matter what they twist they are going to do it and continue to do it even if it makes no sense.

I believe someone else posted the names of a few of the board members at Zenimax who are notorious hardasses, when this game fails to bring in the majority of TES fans because of the games base design, people are going to get fired and the head of the company is going to go bye bye.

I see this game selling 1-2 million copies and then going F2P within a year ala SWTOR because of the mass exodus. DaoC style RvR fits a very small segment of the population and once people realize that the open class system isnt actually open, even more of the few TES fans that buy the game are going to leave. And no, they are not open, Healing, fire, lightning staves.

You can swap them, you can raise all of them...but you cant have a fire, lightning and heal spell at the same time. Its yet another closed minded developer game design who thinks that you must place limits on characters in an MMO even though its already been proven by other MMOs that you dont need to do it. They are still trying to force a trinity situation in a game that is supposed to have open class advancement.

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

4/10/13 8:46:17 AM#129
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by bcbully
Faction locked races are great. Not be able to go where you want is dumb.

Level 50 you can explore any faction map you want. 

Till level 50 though it is invisible wall land!

Every MMO has zone walls, moot point.

Open world games do/did not have zones, stop lying. You are not doing anything at all for defending your opinion if you have to give bold face lies like that.

  Maelwydd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1064

4/10/13 8:49:06 AM#130
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by bcbully
Faction locked races are great. Not be able to go where you want is dumb.

Level 50 you can explore any faction map you want. 

Till level 50 though it is invisible wall land!

Every MMO has zone walls, moot point.

I am playing one right now without any walls.

And the issue isn't that there is a wall blocking your way till you get to the portal or transition it is that untill level 50 there is no portal or way to transition into the next zone at all.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3360

4/10/13 8:50:54 AM#131
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by bcbully
Faction locked races are great. Not be able to go where you want is dumb.

Level 50 you can explore any faction map you want. 

Till level 50 though it is invisible wall land!

Every MMO has zone walls, moot point.

I am playing one right now without any walls.

And the issue isn't that there is a wall blocking your way till you get to the portal or transition it is that untill level 50 there is no portal or way to transition into the next zone at all.

Ok I will bite, what MMO are you playing that has no zone walls and as far as you walk it never ends? LOL

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

4/10/13 8:53:37 AM#132
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by bcbully
Faction locked races are great. Not be able to go where you want is dumb.

Level 50 you can explore any faction map you want. 

Till level 50 though it is invisible wall land!

Every MMO has zone walls, moot point.

I am playing one right now without any walls.

And the issue isn't that there is a wall blocking your way till you get to the portal or transition it is that untill level 50 there is no portal or way to transition into the next zone at all.

Ok I will bite, what MMO are you playing that has no zone walls and as far as you walk it never ends? LOL

Asherons Call had no zones, it was a seemless world. Star Wars Galaxies, every world was 100% open and it even had it so when you got to the end on one side, you appeared on the other. There are plenty of open world games, pretending like there isnt just makes your side of the argument look that much worse for trying to make it an issue.

Should I end this with a LOL? Seems like a lot of people talking out of their backside loves to do it so I guess I wont!

  Maelwydd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1064

4/10/13 8:57:03 AM#133
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by bcbully
Faction locked races are great. Not be able to go where you want is dumb.

Level 50 you can explore any faction map you want. 

Till level 50 though it is invisible wall land!

Every MMO has zone walls, moot point.

I am playing one right now without any walls.

And the issue isn't that there is a wall blocking your way till you get to the portal or transition it is that untill level 50 there is no portal or way to transition into the next zone at all.

Ok I will bite, what MMO are you playing that has no zone walls and as far as you walk it never ends? LOL

Vanguard SOH is one of the games currently. You can run from one end on the continent to the other, hop on a boat, and then sail to the next land mass, run across that, hop on a boat, sail over the the islands and sail, run top to bottom.

NO

INVISIBLE

WALLS

Other games that had walls but you could go anywhere include: -

AOC

EQ

TSW

DF

Xsyon

MC

...

The list can keep going if you want.

Name me some MMO's where you cannot explore the entire world based on your faction?

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3360

4/10/13 9:01:41 AM#134
Originally posted by JasonJ
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by bcbully
Faction locked races are great. Not be able to go where you want is dumb.

Level 50 you can explore any faction map you want. 

Till level 50 though it is invisible wall land!

Every MMO has zone walls, moot point.

I am playing one right now without any walls.

And the issue isn't that there is a wall blocking your way till you get to the portal or transition it is that untill level 50 there is no portal or way to transition into the next zone at all.

Ok I will bite, what MMO are you playing that has no zone walls and as far as you walk it never ends? LOL

Asherons Call had no zones, it was a seemless world. Star Wars Galaxies, every world was 100% open and it even had it so when you got to the end on one side, you appeared on the other. There are plenty of open world games, pretending like there isnt just makes your side of the argument look that much worse for trying to make it an issue.

Should I end this with a LOL? Seems like a lot of people talking out of their backside loves to do it so I guess I wont!

Clerver programing that hides zone walls does not mean they are not there. In SWG that fact you zone going from planet to planet is a zone so has wall. Goto a space station same thing walls. WoW hides them buy making you die before you reach them. Zone walls and MMOs are common and if you looked at the dev tools as they make the zone, world, map you would see it as it is.

The point is... zone walls and MMOs are common as spit and you can see any map at level 50. You can go anywhere. If they unlock the factions that wont change. Its how the game is designed. Your not gona get a different map if they unlock the factions and as it stands you can go anywhere at level 50.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3360

4/10/13 9:03:32 AM#135
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by bcbully
Faction locked races are great. Not be able to go where you want is dumb.

Level 50 you can explore any faction map you want. 

Till level 50 though it is invisible wall land!

Every MMO has zone walls, moot point.

I am playing one right now without any walls.

And the issue isn't that there is a wall blocking your way till you get to the portal or transition it is that untill level 50 there is no portal or way to transition into the next zone at all.

Ok I will bite, what MMO are you playing that has no zone walls and as far as you walk it never ends? LOL

Vanguard SOH is one of the games currently. You can run from one end on the continent to the other, hop on a boat, and then sail to the next land mass, run across that, hop on a boat, sail over the the islands and sail, run top to bottom.

NO

INVISIBLE

WALLS

Other games that had walls but you could go anywhere include: -

AOC

EQ

TSW

DF

Xsyon

MC

...

The list can keep going if you want.

Name me some MMO's where you cannot explore the entire world based on your faction?

On your list I have played Vanguard and EQ1 and EQ2 who had large open worlds and zone walls.

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

4/10/13 9:08:06 AM#136
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by JasonJ

Asherons Call had no zones, it was a seemless world. Star Wars Galaxies, every world was 100% open and it even had it so when you got to the end on one side, you appeared on the other. There are plenty of open world games, pretending like there isnt just makes your side of the argument look that much worse for trying to make it an issue.

Should I end this with a LOL? Seems like a lot of people talking out of their backside loves to do it so I guess I wont!

Clerver programing that hides zone walls does not mean they are not there. In SWG that fact you zone going from planet to planet is a zone so has wall. Goto a space station same thing walls. WoW hides them buy making you die before you reach them. Zone walls and MMOs are common and if you looked at the dev tools as they make the zone, world, map you would see it as it is.

The point is... zone walls and MMOs are common as spit and you can see any map at level 50. You can go anywhere. If they unlock the factions that wont change. Its how the game is designed. Your not gona get a different map if they unlock the factions and as it stands you can go anywhere at level 50.

Nope, a planet is not a zone.

A zone is a zone. A space station is a city. And WoW was not brought up.

The point is, you have to divert in order to protect this horrible idea that all games have zones even now going to the point of having to say zones are common and thus its ok to use them even though other games in your own words "cleverly hide them"...so I guess the makers of TESO are not very clever.

Thanks for helping prove our point!

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3360

4/10/13 9:10:17 AM#137
Originally posted by JasonJ
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by JasonJ

Asherons Call had no zones, it was a seemless world. Star Wars Galaxies, every world was 100% open and it even had it so when you got to the end on one side, you appeared on the other. There are plenty of open world games, pretending like there isnt just makes your side of the argument look that much worse for trying to make it an issue.

Should I end this with a LOL? Seems like a lot of people talking out of their backside loves to do it so I guess I wont!

Clerver programing that hides zone walls does not mean they are not there. In SWG that fact you zone going from planet to planet is a zone so has wall. Goto a space station same thing walls. WoW hides them buy making you die before you reach them. Zone walls and MMOs are common and if you looked at the dev tools as they make the zone, world, map you would see it as it is.

The point is... zone walls and MMOs are common as spit and you can see any map at level 50. You can go anywhere. If they unlock the factions that wont change. Its how the game is designed. Your not gona get a different map if they unlock the factions and as it stands you can go anywhere at level 50.

Nope, a planet is not a zone.

A zone is a zone. A space station is a city. And WoW was not brought up.

The point is, you have to divert in order to protect this horrible idea that all games have zones even now going to the point of having to say zones are common and thus its ok to use them even though other games in your own words "cleverly hide them"...so I guess the makers of TESO are not very clever.

Thanks for helping prove our point!

Whatever... If the game is so badly designed to the point they cant even get maps right how is removing the faction locks gona make it worth playing? 

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10378

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

4/10/13 9:14:15 AM#138


Originally posted by jtcgs
Didnt need to read past "Coincidence? Probably not." to know this is just an article being written due to MONEY being given to them.

There isnt a single person, not even hardcore DaoC fans that can argue that it is not a coincidence because THERE ARE NO DAOC FACTIONS LOCKED BEHIND AN INVISIBLE WALL clones out there, no one but the makers of that game thought it was a good enough idea to do it in another game...

Coincidence? Duh.

No amount of articles is going to change the minds of the TES fans that have been arguing against this crap move on every single TES site, its a small box being made for a game meant for an open world. Deal with that fact, and the fact you are not going to change the minds of those pissed off with anything less than a TES MMO with an open world.  




They will deal with it by sleeping on beds made of soft, cushy money.

Seriously. It won't be like that cheap, paper money we get. It will be soft and fluffy and it will sing them to sleep at night.

People make a big deal out of the 'ideals' behind games, and whether they are 'true' MMOs, 'true' TES games (true 'SW' games), etc., but it's the basic game mechanics that kill the games. Are the environments static, or do they look lively? Is there plenty of content at release covering linear, repeatable and nonlinear activities? Do all the buttons work? Do the graphics look good and consistent? If they get all the basic gaming stuff nailed down, the rules that aren't like the single player games won't matter that much. It sounds like they've gotten the basics nailed down. At least I haven't seen any complaints about that stuff yet. The recurring complaint is that the game won't be like the single player games. Well, yeah. It's an MMO. It won't be anything like the single player games.

** edit **
I think of it like this. They could write it using the "Man With The Iron Fists" method, where they try to be just like the predecessors, and fail. "Man With The Iron Fists" tries to recreate old Kung Fu movies and tries too hard to be too much like those old Kung Fu movies. It's just bad.

The other method is the "Evil Dead" method, where the people making the movie make a movie that stands on its own, but references enough of the predecessor that you know where it's coming from. If you've never seen the predecessor, and don't care about it, you still get a good product, but if you've seen the predecessor, the movie is even better.

It sounds like Zenimax is going with the "Evil Dead" method, which doesn't guarantee success, but it at least avoids the guaranteed failure of the "Man With The Iron Fists" method.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

4/10/13 9:23:11 AM#139
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by JasonJ

Nope, a planet is not a zone.

A zone is a zone. A space station is a city. And WoW was not brought up.

The point is, you have to divert in order to protect this horrible idea that all games have zones even now going to the point of having to say zones are common and thus its ok to use them even though other games in your own words "cleverly hide them"...so I guess the makers of TESO are not very clever.

Thanks for helping prove our point!

Whatever... If the game is so badly designed to the point they cant even get maps right how is removing the faction locks gona make it worth playing? 

Wait, you said all games had zones and walls and that its moot and now its "whatever"?

Sums up all of your posts in this thread very well right there. Stop basing your replies on BS and find something based in reality and then perhaps you wont have them so easily turned on you. Not that I blame you, the article was based on arguing for the developers, not the players, yet is pretending not to do it. This site has its priorities wrong, it should be giving a voice to us, not them, all they are doing is alienating anyone that does agree with game makers and going by the TES sites, a lot of people just felt betrayed yet again by the industry.

Everyone should have a voice and until people can stop defending their views of games with pure 100% BS and actually just say "Hey, I like being closed into small zones and never playing with most of the people playing the same game" and let it BE just that...this stuff will never stop.

I, I dont feel the need to lie about why I like open world games...why cant you do the same for playing in small boxes?

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3360

4/10/13 9:28:43 AM#140
Originally posted by JasonJ
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by JasonJ

Nope, a planet is not a zone.

A zone is a zone. A space station is a city. And WoW was not brought up.

The point is, you have to divert in order to protect this horrible idea that all games have zones even now going to the point of having to say zones are common and thus its ok to use them even though other games in your own words "cleverly hide them"...so I guess the makers of TESO are not very clever.

Thanks for helping prove our point!

Whatever... If the game is so badly designed to the point they cant even get maps right how is removing the faction locks gona make it worth playing? 

Wait, you said all games had zones and walls and that its moot and now its "whatever"?

Sums up all of your posts in this thread very well right there. Stop basing your replies on BS and find something based in reality and then perhaps you wont have them so easily turned on you. Not that I blame you, the article was based on arguing for the developers, not the players, yet is pretending not to do it. This site has its priorities wrong, it should be giving a voice to us, not them, all they are doing is alienating anyone that does agree with game makers and going by the TES sites, a lot of people just felt betrayed yet again by the industry.

Everyone should have a voice and until people can stop defending their views of games with pure 100% BS and actually just say "Hey, I like being closed into small zones and never playing with most of the people playing the same game" and let it BE just that...this stuff will never stop.

I, I dont feel the need to lie about why I like open world games...why cant you do the same for playing in small boxes?

I said whatever because I dont agree with you and no amount of facts will prove anything to you. Been MMOing 14 years and played enough games to know whats what and see enough design videos to see the boxes all maps really are. So I am moving on. 

So by your post above this game is so broken they would need ot start from ground zero to make a game worth being TES MMO? 

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