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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Elder Scrolls Online: An Argument for 'Faction Lock'

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259 posts found
  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

4/09/13 7:28:54 PM#41
Originally posted by LordSneerg

I love the fact this game is going to be faction locked. I can clearly identify the opposing factions (mentioned in article).  Also, the way the are doing it will open up more pve stuff for me in the wife. Everyone is going to cry about different aspects of the game.  I will preorder two CE version of this game and enjoy it while haters do what they do best. HATE. There are a bunch of mmo's coming out. Move on if this faction lock is a killer.  

 

People will move on. But people also like to express why to justfy their opinion rather then some who simply could care less about the game actually being a game world that makes sense. I guess some people like to just press buttons to get their monkey reward.

  Nanfoodle

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3537

4/09/13 7:29:37 PM#42
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by jtcgs

Oh you are one of those...TES was a themepark because it had a story people...

In TES you could make a character, go anywhere right from the start outside of perhaps 2% of the game locked by story and never once do a quest. There were no dungeons with mobs you couldnt kill right after character creation that werent just as tuff 100 hours into the game. You could pick up a tool and do nothing but gather and craft EVERY SINGLE CRAFTING skill up to max, no hinderence, no caps, nothing to stop you from doing it right from the start...no ore or materials in some high level zone, behing some massive uber boss mob requiring 40 people to kill in order to get that super special material to craft that uber item of godlyness. No developer hand holding telling me this race belongs to that faction, nothing limtiing my ability to play the way I WANT TO PLAY.

It was a sandbox.

Now go on, reply with a laugh and no actual refute with ACTUAL THINGS PROVING its a themepark...because you cant, it is a sandbox...skyrim even more so because the developers worked hand in hand with Mod sites to HELP PLAYERS MOD THE GAME and even got Steam to create a MOD STORE!

So you chuck out the story and quests in TES. Now what do you do thats so themepark that would keep people playing? Wander around not changing the world? Everything set up to tell the quests and story written. Its themepark. Welcome to the themepark MMO taken from its origins.

You dont even know what sandbox means let alone themepark.

A Themepark story driven game requires you to do the story to advance. EXAMPLE. In KOTOR you cannot even leave the starting area until you complete the storyline...nor can you move from the first world to the second or from there to ANY OTHER WORLD until you unlock them via storyline.

THAT IS THEMEPARK.

In TES, the WORLD is OPEN without even doing a SINGLE QUEST.

THAT IS SANDPARK.

IN TESO you cannot move forward until you are the correct level and it keeps funnelling you throught the invisible walled in faction right to the center, where they placed the war, you know, the war...which the ENTIRE world is taking part in yet everyone is fighting only at this magical place in the center...

You dont get it, because you dont know what they even are...or you are trolling.

No sounds like you dont know what sandbox is. The ability to explore anywhere dose not make a sandbox game. You need to be able to change the world by building and changing the landscape (cut down a forest to build a town), add your own story, free form crafting, basicly walk out in the world and not have a path set for you but still have the ability to do something other the grind to top level. Maybe you could say TES had a few things that were sandboxish but it still was 90% on rails. Join "The Hand" and your path is set till the end of that story. Or pick to do 4 stories at the same time but you were still on rails. Big bad guy at the end of the game can only be reached by following the rails set to that goal. 

Sure you could walk out into the world and not do any of the quests, cut down wolves and deer all day long and pick flowers to make things but how have you changed the world? You didnt! Thats because unless you follow the story nothing can change. Its a themepark. 

By your definition of themepark Warhammer, Everquest and any other game that had a persistent world and no starting area is a sandbox game, all because you could skip the quests and walk out into the world and grind to level XX. Really? Dont take much to please you does it. Sandbox is much more then that. Just google "definition MMO sandbox" and read for 10-30 min and you will see. Developers need to hand over some creative rights to the player to be a sandbox game.

 

  Punk999

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/04
Posts: 882

4/09/13 7:31:09 PM#43
I like race lock etc. I mean yeah they could do it more differently, but it's obvious they want an RVR game! Since they do, it is the best way to handle it.

"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
^MMORPG.com

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15830

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

4/09/13 7:34:21 PM#44
Originally posted by jtcgs

You dont even know what sandbox means let alone themepark.

A Themepark story driven game requires you to do the story to advance. EXAMPLE. In KOTOR you cannot even leave the starting area until you complete the storyline...nor can you move from the first world to the second or from there to ANY OTHER WORLD until you unlock them via storyline.

THAT IS THEMEPARK.

In TES, the WORLD is OPEN without even doing a SINGLE QUEST.

THAT IS SANDPARK.

IN TESO you cannot move forward until you are the correct level and it keeps funnelling you throught the invisible walled in faction right to the center, where they placed the war, you know, the war...which the ENTIRE world is taking part in yet everyone is fighting only at this magical place in the center...

You dont get it, because you dont know what they even are...or you are trolling.

Actually in KOTOR, that is only the case until you complete your Jedi initiation then you're pretty much free to do as you please story wise until you reach the end.

Regardless a non linear story means sandbox?

Lets look at TES sandbox elements for a second...

Shop partnership, Housing/Hearths Fire, Marriage/family, the crime system/jails etc..., these are sandbox elements but the way they're implemented outside of the crime system, it's completely static, it really doesn't create gameplay outside of roleplaying.

Good examples of sandbox gameplay would be something like Minecraft, the indie title Kenshi, sandbox modes in RTS games.

TES is an excellent RP platform, but as far as sandbox game-play goes it offers little. Anyway if we want to discuss sandboxes and TES elements related to that lets do so in a topic devoted to that.

A quick question before I end this, if this zone lock didn't exist, do you think that would make TEs a sandbox MMO?

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Nanfoodle

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3537

4/09/13 7:37:42 PM#45
Originally posted by Ktara
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Ktara

This article didn't mention it, but we're still limited in grouping and socializing outside factions.  Sure, after 50 I can go outside my region, but I'll have to play solo until then since my friends/family won't play my race/faction.  Might as well play Skyrim then.

Here's another game I won't be buying.  I'll just wait for The Repopulation.

Also, to prove the other TES games were sandbox...On my second or third playthough of Oblivion, I never once went near the portals.  I did everything else in the game, maxed out all the skills, and went to all the places.  Put in a bunch of mods and played those.  I still haven't finished Skyrim, I'm about 1/2 way through the story.  I enjoy just walking around doing all the side dungeons and quests and my crafting and skills  are nearly maxed.  This is not a themepark since it's not holding my hand saying "you need to go over here now and finsih this". 

And if my guild and friends want to play the Hord and I wana be a Gnome in WoW, how is that different? Lots of MMOs make you pick a faction. You cant think they can add group play to the TES and call it a MMO. They had to remove things from the single player game that dont fit a MMO and add things that are needed to make it a MMO. This is a moot as its common in many MMOs.

 

I'm not in a guild, nor do I wish to be.  I'd like to play this with my son and boyfriend, but they want to play other factions.  Therefore either two of us settle for playing a race we don't want to to appease the 3rd person, or we all play solo.  It's just not worth the money when we can play The Repopulation together without any of these restrictions.

 

14 years of MMOing and only a few times I got to play the faction/race/class I wanted. For me its been play what I want or play with my friends. The norm has been my 2nd of 3rd choise for what I wanted to play. Never upset me besides meanful choices are what make games worth playing. Would could make everyting generic and everything that same. All quest options have a happy ending that have no impact on your char so you dont feel left out of all options. But that would not be much of a RPG would it? The replay value would suck. I rather a hard decision in my game that made me wonder what the rest of the game was like after that choise then options dont matter. IMO ZM did the right thing and man people are gona wana reply this to death.

  Golelorn

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/03
Posts: 1100

4/09/13 7:40:17 PM#46
Why is this a big deal? Plenty of games do it. WoW, DAoC, WAR, doesn't EVE do it?
  Nanfoodle

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3537

4/09/13 7:42:53 PM#47
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by jtcgs

You dont even know what sandbox means let alone themepark.

A Themepark story driven game requires you to do the story to advance. EXAMPLE. In KOTOR you cannot even leave the starting area until you complete the storyline...nor can you move from the first world to the second or from there to ANY OTHER WORLD until you unlock them via storyline.

THAT IS THEMEPARK.

In TES, the WORLD is OPEN without even doing a SINGLE QUEST.

THAT IS SANDPARK.

IN TESO you cannot move forward until you are the correct level and it keeps funnelling you throught the invisible walled in faction right to the center, where they placed the war, you know, the war...which the ENTIRE world is taking part in yet everyone is fighting only at this magical place in the center...

You dont get it, because you dont know what they even are...or you are trolling.

Actually in KOTOR, that is only the case until you complete your Jedi initiation then you're pretty much free to do as you please story wise until you reach the end.

Regardless a non linear story means sandbox?

Lets look at TES sandbox elements for a second...

Shop partnership, Housing/Heatths Fire, Marriage/family, the crime system/jails etc..., these are sandbox elements but the way they're implemented outside of the crime system, it's completely static, it really doesn't create gameplay outside of roleplaying.

Good examples of sandbox gameplay would be something like Minecraft, the indie title Kenshi, sandbox modes in RTS games.

TES is an excellent RP platform, but as far as sandbox game-play goes it offers little. Anyway if we want to discuss sandboxes and TES elements related to that lets do so in a topic devoted to that.

 

This has been the heart of the topic. There is a group of TSE fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models TES to the level of it being sandbox. And sandbox means to be able to wander anywhere, done. So the faction lock breaks ESO and is no longer a real TES game. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die. On that note Minecraft is a sandbox game and I am glad someone knows what that means lol

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

4/09/13 7:45:32 PM#48
Originally posted by Distopia

Actually in KOTOR, that is only the case until you complete your Jedi initiation then you're pretty much free to do as you please story wise until you reach the end.

Regardless a non linear story means sandbox?

Lets look at TES sandbox elements for a second...

Shop partnership, Housing/Heatths Fire, Marriage/family, the crime system/jails etc..., these are sandbox elements but the way they're implemented outside of the crime system, it's completely static, it really doesn't create gameplay outside of roleplaying.

 

Another one that doesnt know what sandbox means.

Sandbox means its OPEN, not restricted.

SWGs sandbox was for PLAYERS to CREATE and make the world alive. SANDBOX, CLEAN PLAYING FIELD FOR YOU TO MAKE WHAT YOU WISH.

Themepark = DEVELOPER created content, Guiderail, Funneled, handheld content. Little room to play the way YOU want, you have to play the way THEY want.

It seems rather clear that DaoC players have limited MMO experience based on continually needing a developer to hold their hands and tell them how to play...otherwise they are lost...guess thats why they believe that if two factions have the same race, you will be too confused to be able to fight.

BTW, non-linear story is not the same thing as having an open world where you have to advance the story to play. That is a NON-LINEAR WORLD...and yes, you must not be restricted by the story for it to be sandbox...Ultima Online, Asherons Call, Anarchy Online, Star Wars Galaxies...all SANDBOX MMOs, not restricted to story.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15830

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

4/09/13 7:47:10 PM#49
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by jtcgs

You dont even know what sandbox means let alone themepark.

A Themepark story driven game requires you to do the story to advance. EXAMPLE. In KOTOR you cannot even leave the starting area until you complete the storyline...nor can you move from the first world to the second or from there to ANY OTHER WORLD until you unlock them via storyline.

THAT IS THEMEPARK.

In TES, the WORLD is OPEN without even doing a SINGLE QUEST.

THAT IS SANDPARK.

IN TESO you cannot move forward until you are the correct level and it keeps funnelling you throught the invisible walled in faction right to the center, where they placed the war, you know, the war...which the ENTIRE world is taking part in yet everyone is fighting only at this magical place in the center...

You dont get it, because you dont know what they even are...or you are trolling.

Actually in KOTOR, that is only the case until you complete your Jedi initiation then you're pretty much free to do as you please story wise until you reach the end.

Regardless a non linear story means sandbox?

Lets look at TES sandbox elements for a second...

Shop partnership, Housing/Heatths Fire, Marriage/family, the crime system/jails etc..., these are sandbox elements but the way they're implemented outside of the crime system, it's completely static, it really doesn't create gameplay outside of roleplaying.

Good examples of sandbox gameplay would be something like Minecraft, the indie title Kenshi, sandbox modes in RTS games.

TES is an excellent RP platform, but as far as sandbox game-play goes it offers little. Anyway if we want to discuss sandboxes and TES elements related to that lets do so in a topic devoted to that.

 

This has been the heart of the topic. There is a group of TSE fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models TES to the level of it being sandbox. And sandbox means to be able to wander anywhere, done. So the faction lock breaks ESO and is no longer a real TES game. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die. On that note Minecraft is a sandbox game and I am glad someone knows what that means lol

Yea that's pretty much why i said that, as an open world wouldn't make TESO any more sandbox than it is now.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15830

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

4/09/13 7:48:28 PM#50
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Distopia

Actually in KOTOR, that is only the case until you complete your Jedi initiation then you're pretty much free to do as you please story wise until you reach the end.

Regardless a non linear story means sandbox?

Lets look at TES sandbox elements for a second...

Shop partnership, Housing/Heatths Fire, Marriage/family, the crime system/jails etc..., these are sandbox elements but the way they're implemented outside of the crime system, it's completely static, it really doesn't create gameplay outside of roleplaying.

 

Another one that doesnt know what sandbox means.

Sandbox means its OPEN, not restricted.

SWGs sandbox was for PLAYERS to CREATE and make the world alive. SANDBOX, CLEAN PLAYING FIELD FOR YOU TO MAKE WHAT YOU WISH.

Themepark = DEVELOPER created content, Guiderail, Funneled, handheld content. Little room to play the way YOU want, you have to play the way THEY want.

It seems rather clear that DaoC players have limited MMO experience based on continually needing a developer to hold their hands and tell them how to play...otherwise they are lost...guess thats why they believe that if two factions have the same race, you will be too confused to be able to fight.

BTW, non-linear story is not the same thing as having an open world where you have to advance the story to play. That is a NON-LINEAR WORLD...and yes, you must not be restricted by the story for it to be sandbox...Ultima Online, Asherons Call, Anarchy Online, Star Wars Galaxies...all SANDBOX MMOs, not restricted to story.

 Do you even know where the term sandbox came from in reference to games? Sandbox mode.... AKA freeform build mode... BTW I am a SWG vet it's really the only MMO i've spent real time in (more than 6months to a year). I'm not coming from the perspective of a DAOC fan, open your mind a little jeez.....

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

4/09/13 7:49:50 PM#51
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

This has been the heart of the topic. There is a group of TSE fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models TES to the level of it being sandbox. And sandbox means to be able to wander anywhere, done. So the faction lock breaks ESO and is no longer a real TES game. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die. On that note Minecraft is a sandbox game and I am glad someone knows what that means lol

This has been the heart of the topic. There is a very small group of DaoC fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models DaoC to the level of it being themepark. And themepark means to be limited to race/faction behind invisible walls with funneled PvP content, done. So the no faction lock breaks DaoC and MMOs and is no longer a real PvP game or a game with pride. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die even though there has only been that one game that did it. On that note im going to say something derp and go against the entire genres definition of sandbox and pretend there were none before Minecraft. P.S. lol

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  acidblood

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/06
Posts: 248

4/09/13 7:52:03 PM#52
Scarificing RP for PvP in an Elder Scrolls game, sorry but just no... they could at least have a really long and difficult defection questline. I will not be giving Zenimax Online the benefit of the doubt as at this point they still have everything to prove as far as the design choices they have made. That said I do hope TES turns out to be a good game, as it is certainly looking like something a bit different, but in this case, IMHO, different isn't even close to better.
  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

4/09/13 7:55:23 PM#53
Originally posted by Distopia

 Do you even know where the term sandbox came from in reference to games? Sandbox mode.... AKA freeform build mode... BTW I am a SWG vet it's really the only MMO i've spent real time in (more than 6months to a year). I'm not coming from the perspective of a DAOC fan, open your mind a little jeez.....

Do you even know that MMO developers from Raph Koster to Mark Jacobs could care less what your personal opinion of the word sandbox means, because they call it what it is.

Even Jacobs, the man making the ACTUAL sequal to DaoC disagrees with you and wants to cut out as much of the Themepark from CU as possible meaning no invisible walls closing off factions, having an open world and losing the story driven crap and only having it in the background.

So, even the maker of DaoC disagrees with you.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15830

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

4/09/13 7:55:38 PM#54
Originally posted by jtcgs. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die even though there has only been that one game that did it. On that note im going to say something derp and go against the entire genres definition of sandbox and pretend there were none before Minecraft. P.S. lol

Anyway, is your overall point that " with no faction lock TESO would be a sandbox"?

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15830

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

4/09/13 7:56:31 PM#55
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Distopia

 Do you even know where the term sandbox came from in reference to games? Sandbox mode.... AKA freeform build mode... BTW I am a SWG vet it's really the only MMO i've spent real time in (more than 6months to a year). I'm not coming from the perspective of a DAOC fan, open your mind a little jeez.....

Do you even know that MMO developers from Raph Koster to Mark Jacobs could care less what your personal opinion of the word sandbox means, because they call it what it is.

Even Jacobs, the man making the ACTUAL sequal to DaoC disagrees with you and wants to cut out as much of the Themepark from CU as possible meaning no invisible walls closing off factions, having an open world and losing the story driven crap and only having it in the background.

So, even the maker of DaoC disagrees with you.

DAOC was never a sandbox, SWG was....as well as UO so what the hell does this post mean?

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  jmcdermottuk

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 916

4/09/13 8:02:14 PM#56
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Distopia
 

This has been the heart of the topic. There is a group of TSE fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models TES to the level of it being sandbox. And sandbox means to be able to wander anywhere, done. So the faction lock breaks ESO and is no longer a real TES game. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die. On that note Minecraft is a sandbox game and I am glad someone knows what that means lol

It's more than just that, you're over simplifying it. We could start in on the class structure but that's not relevant to this column. We were asked to discuss the faction locks so that's what we're talking about.

So, I'll demonstrate my problem with this by posing a simple question.

Name a class based MMO that has 3 factions and features RvR combat.

Now, anyone who answers this honestly and DOESN'T say Dark Age of Camelot has no clue about MMO's. That's my problem. We're looking at a MMO that is clearly based on a DAoC design philosophy and being welded to the TES IP, and it just doesn't fit right. There's just too many restrictions for it to be TES.

They could have still had RvR, PvP or whatever in a TES MMO without modelling it on DAoC. I loved DAoC, don't get me wrong, but please, don't make an updated version of it and try and pass it off as a TES MMO.

  Nanfoodle

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3537

4/09/13 8:02:55 PM#57
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

This has been the heart of the topic. There is a group of TSE fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models TES to the level of it being sandbox. And sandbox means to be able to wander anywhere, done. So the faction lock breaks ESO and is no longer a real TES game. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die. On that note Minecraft is a sandbox game and I am glad someone knows what that means lol

This has been the heart of the topic. There is a very small group of DaoC fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models DaoC to the level of it being themepark. And themepark means to be limited to race/faction behind invisible walls with funneled PvP content, done. So the no faction lock breaks DaoC and MMOs and is no longer a real PvP game or a game with pride. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die even though there has only been that one game that did it. On that note im going to say something derp and go against the entire genres definition of sandbox and pretend there were none before Minecraft. P.S. lol

You dont even know what the term invisable walls mean in MMOs. Invisable walls are not the outside walls of the zone. Its where hills and shrubs and a car in the middle of the street seems to have walls that restrict you from jumping in or on top of it. Even though you char can jump high enough to get up it. It breaks imersion and exploring. Zone walls are a given even in the greatest sandbox games. 

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1952

4/09/13 8:07:17 PM#58
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by jtcgs

You dont even know what sandbox means let alone themepark.

A Themepark story driven game requires you to do the story to advance. EXAMPLE. In KOTOR you cannot even leave the starting area until you complete the storyline...nor can you move from the first world to the second or from there to ANY OTHER WORLD until you unlock them via storyline.

THAT IS THEMEPARK.

In TES, the WORLD is OPEN without even doing a SINGLE QUEST.

THAT IS SANDPARK.

IN TESO you cannot move forward until you are the correct level and it keeps funnelling you throught the invisible walled in faction right to the center, where they placed the war, you know, the war...which the ENTIRE world is taking part in yet everyone is fighting only at this magical place in the center...

You dont get it, because you dont know what they even are...or you are trolling.

Actually in KOTOR, that is only the case until you complete your Jedi initiation then you're pretty much free to do as you please story wise until you reach the end.

Regardless a non linear story means sandbox?

Lets look at TES sandbox elements for a second...

Shop partnership, Housing/Heatths Fire, Marriage/family, the crime system/jails etc..., these are sandbox elements but the way they're implemented outside of the crime system, it's completely static, it really doesn't create gameplay outside of roleplaying.

Good examples of sandbox gameplay would be something like Minecraft, the indie title Kenshi, sandbox modes in RTS games.

TES is an excellent RP platform, but as far as sandbox game-play goes it offers little. Anyway if we want to discuss sandboxes and TES elements related to that lets do so in a topic devoted to that.

 

This has been the heart of the topic. There is a group of TSE fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models TES to the level of it being sandbox. And sandbox means to be able to wander anywhere, done. So the faction lock breaks ESO and is no longer a real TES game. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die. On that note Minecraft is a sandbox game and I am glad someone knows what that means lol

The onus is on Zenimax to either make an Elder Scrolls MMO or a bastardized version of Dark Age of Camelot.  A mediocre attempt at both will end up with a mediocre game overall.  They need to make up their mind quick or suffer dire consequences.  Considering that Camelot Unchained is being made and is a better fit for DAoC 2, they might want to give the Elder Scrolls fans' input more credence.

 

  Nanfoodle

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3537

4/09/13 8:07:36 PM#59
Originally posted by jmcdermottuk
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Distopia
 

This has been the heart of the topic. There is a group of TSE fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models TES to the level of it being sandbox. And sandbox means to be able to wander anywhere, done. So the faction lock breaks ESO and is no longer a real TES game. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die. On that note Minecraft is a sandbox game and I am glad someone knows what that means lol

It's more than just that, you're over simplifying it. We could start in on the class structure but that's not relevant to this column. We were asked to discuss the faction locks so that's what we're talking about.

So, I'll demonstrate my problem with this by posing a simple question.

Name a class based MMO that has 3 factions and features RvR combat.

Now, anyone who answers this honestly and DOESN'T say Dark Age of Camelot has no clue about MMO's. That's my problem. We're looking at a MMO that is clearly based on a DAoC design philosophy and being welded to the TES IP, and it just doesn't fit right. There's just too many restrictions for it to be TES.

They could have still had RvR, PvP or whatever in a TES MMO without modelling it on DAoC. I loved DAoC, don't get me wrong, but please, don't make an updated version of it and try and pass it off as a TES MMO.

Yes the model is clearly DAoC 3 faction PvP. But thats it, rest is very TES and people who played it at PAX said so to. The classes are not taken from DAoC, the crafting is not, the quests are not, the story is clearly not DAoC. Only the 3 faction war is. Rest from story to combat is all TES. Whats your point? 3 factions does not stop this from being a TES MMO.

  Nanfoodle

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3537

4/09/13 8:09:25 PM#60
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by jtcgs

You dont even know what sandbox means let alone themepark.

A Themepark story driven game requires you to do the story to advance. EXAMPLE. In KOTOR you cannot even leave the starting area until you complete the storyline...nor can you move from the first world to the second or from there to ANY OTHER WORLD until you unlock them via storyline.

THAT IS THEMEPARK.

In TES, the WORLD is OPEN without even doing a SINGLE QUEST.

THAT IS SANDPARK.

IN TESO you cannot move forward until you are the correct level and it keeps funnelling you throught the invisible walled in faction right to the center, where they placed the war, you know, the war...which the ENTIRE world is taking part in yet everyone is fighting only at this magical place in the center...

You dont get it, because you dont know what they even are...or you are trolling.

Actually in KOTOR, that is only the case until you complete your Jedi initiation then you're pretty much free to do as you please story wise until you reach the end.

Regardless a non linear story means sandbox?

Lets look at TES sandbox elements for a second...

Shop partnership, Housing/Heatths Fire, Marriage/family, the crime system/jails etc..., these are sandbox elements but the way they're implemented outside of the crime system, it's completely static, it really doesn't create gameplay outside of roleplaying.

Good examples of sandbox gameplay would be something like Minecraft, the indie title Kenshi, sandbox modes in RTS games.

TES is an excellent RP platform, but as far as sandbox game-play goes it offers little. Anyway if we want to discuss sandboxes and TES elements related to that lets do so in a topic devoted to that.

 

This has been the heart of the topic. There is a group of TSE fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models TES to the level of it being sandbox. And sandbox means to be able to wander anywhere, done. So the faction lock breaks ESO and is no longer a real TES game. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die. On that note Minecraft is a sandbox game and I am glad someone knows what that means lol

The onus is on Zenimax to either make an Elder Scrolls MMO or a bastardized version of Dark Age of Camelot.  They need to make up their mind quick or suffer dire consequences.  Considering that Camelot Unchained is being made and is a better fit for DAoC 2, they might want to give the Elder Scrolls fans' input more credence.

CU is not DAoC2, it does not even have PvE and DAoC had some sick awesome PvE. I know lots of DAoC fans who wont even bother with CU and adding 3 faction DAoC model does not make ESO a DAoC2 game as well.

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