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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Elder Scrolls Online: An Argument for 'Faction Lock'

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259 posts found
  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

4/09/13 4:30:07 PM#21
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

TES was a themepark game so np there lol. Tell me its sandpark and I will laugh at you. TES had nothing you could do to build or shape the world in any way. The player was stuck picking what set of rails you wanted to follow. Only thing even close to sandbox about TES was the class system. So themepark fixes for a themepark origins. 

Oh you are one of those...TES was a themepark because it had a story people...

In TES you could make a character, go anywhere right from the start outside of perhaps 2% of the game locked by story and never once do a quest. There were no dungeons with mobs you couldnt kill right after character creation that werent just as tuff 100 hours into the game. You could pick up a tool and do nothing but gather and craft EVERY SINGLE CRAFTING skill up to max, no hinderence, no caps, nothing to stop you from doing it right from the start...no ore or materials in some high level zone, behing some massive uber boss mob requiring 40 people to kill in order to get that super special material to craft that uber item of godlyness. No developer hand holding telling me this race belongs to that faction, nothing limtiing my ability to play the way I WANT TO PLAY.

It was a sandbox.

Now go on, reply with a laugh and no actual refute with ACTUAL THINGS PROVING its a themepark...because you cant, it is a sandbox...skyrim even more so because the developers worked hand in hand with Mod sites to HELP PLAYERS MOD THE GAME and even got Steam to create a MOD STORE!

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Nanfoodle

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3508

4/09/13 4:51:30 PM#22
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

TES was a themepark game so np there lol. Tell me its sandpark and I will laugh at you. TES had nothing you could do to build or shape the world in any way. The player was stuck picking what set of rails you wanted to follow. Only thing even close to sandbox about TES was the class system. So themepark fixes for a themepark origins. 

Oh you are one of those...TES was a themepark because it had a story people...

In TES you could make a character, go anywhere right from the start outside of perhaps 2% of the game locked by story and never once do a quest. There were no dungeons with mobs you couldnt kill right after character creation that werent just as tuff 100 hours into the game. You could pick up a tool and do nothing but gather and craft EVERY SINGLE CRAFTING skill up to max, no hinderence, no caps, nothing to stop you from doing it right from the start...no ore or materials in some high level zone, behing some massive uber boss mob requiring 40 people to kill in order to get that super special material to craft that uber item of godlyness. No developer hand holding telling me this race belongs to that faction, nothing limtiing my ability to play the way I WANT TO PLAY.

It was a sandbox.

Now go on, reply with a laugh and no actual refute with ACTUAL THINGS PROVING its a themepark...because you cant, it is a sandbox...skyrim even more so because the developers worked hand in hand with Mod sites to HELP PLAYERS MOD THE GAME and even got Steam to create a MOD STORE!

So you chuck out the story and quests in TES. Now what do you do thats so themepark that would keep people playing? Wander around not changing the world? Everything set up to tell the quests and story written. Its themepark. Welcome to the themepark MMO taken from its origins.

  wordiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 481

4/09/13 5:01:02 PM#23

Faction lock makes sense to the games story. With the options we'll have at end game to explore the other territories, or hopefully even switch factions if you desire, I think it will make a lot more sense. It also builds realm pride, and creates competition. 

PLEASE ZENIMAX, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT BEND!!!

http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/

  Entinerint

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 725

4/09/13 5:17:39 PM#24
Originally posted by wordiz

Faction lock makes sense to the games story. With the options we'll have at end game to explore the other territories, or hopefully even switch factions if you desire, I think it will make a lot more sense. It also builds realm pride, and creates competition. 

PLEASE ZENIMAX, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT BEND!!!

 

Cool.

 

Wrong, wrong wrong and wrong.

 

See above.

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

4/09/13 5:18:43 PM#25

Their design is limited because they want to use the DAPC model and haven't looked at alternatives. Worse yet, they seem to have ignored many of the reaons why the TES games are popular such as freedom to create the character you want, go where you want, fight for who you want, quest or don't quest.

As for balance, I will never understand how anyone can argue that everyone having total freedom to join any group for PvP is unbalanced. Their design means, if a certain race/class combo has an edge then the other factions will siffer. The only way to couterbalance this edge is to continue down the nerf trail or allow all factions access to all races and all classes.

The best post here isn't the column, it is the analysis by Entinerint which actually does a very good (great even) job of looking at the actual design and breaking down why it is bad. The column smacks of heavy bias trying to appear to play Devil's advicate, which it doesn't do convincingly.

Sorry, the complaints will continue all over the place and deservedly so.

  sketocafe

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/19/11
Posts: 610

4/09/13 5:19:08 PM#26

I don't see myself as being able to take pride in the fact that "we got wood elves."  Whatever faction I wind up in will be determined by the race I play. Who or what that faction is will have nothing to do with the decision beyond that they have that race.  This doesn't seem like it would engender much pride in the faction. 

I'd rather pick my race, then pick my faction. Not do the second as part of the first.

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

4/09/13 5:20:41 PM#27
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

So you chuck out the story and quests in TES. Now what do you do thats so themepark that would keep people playing? Wander around not changing the world? Everything set up to tell the quests and story written. Its themepark. Welcome to the themepark MMO taken from its origins.

 

My character didn't touch any of the quests. He set off, found a place to live, hunted, crafted and stayed out of the faction fight. Sure sounds like an open system to me.

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

4/09/13 5:23:34 PM#28
Originally posted by sketocafe

I don't see myself as being able to take pride in the fact that "we got wood elves."  Whatever faction I wind up in will be determined by the race I play. Who or what that faction is will have nothing to do with the decision beyond that they have that race.  This doesn't seem like it would engender much pride in the faction. 

I'd rather pick my race, then pick my faction. Not do the second as part of the first.

 

Totally agree.

When all the Elves are armoured up, will we be able to tell them apart because they each have distinct looks (seeing as you can also craft otehr factions armours) or will we know because they glow red? If it is because they glow red then ANY race is just as suitable an opponent as any other. So locking a race into a faction so we 'know who the enemy is' is a void argument.

The fight is based on yor faction, not your race. It just so happens taht we cannot choose race and faction seperately.

 

  Ktara

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/08
Posts: 38

4/09/13 5:28:28 PM#29

This article didn't mention it, but we're still limited in grouping and socializing outside factions.  Sure, after 50 I can go outside my region, but I'll have to play solo until then since my friends/family won't play my race/faction.  Might as well play Skyrim then.

Here's another game I won't be buying.  I'll just wait for The Repopulation.

Also, to prove the other TES games were sandbox...On my second or third playthough of Oblivion, I never once went near the portals.  I did everything else in the game, maxed out all the skills, and went to all the places.  Put in a bunch of mods and played those.  I still haven't finished Skyrim, I'm about 1/2 way through the story.  I enjoy just walking around doing all the side dungeons and quests and my crafting and skills  are nearly maxed.  This is not a themepark since it's not holding my hand saying "you need to go over here now and finsih this". 

  Lawlmonster

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/07/09
Posts: 949

Take my advice, I'm not using it anyway.

4/09/13 5:34:10 PM#30
I really can't say I'm surprised to find, on this site more than the others I frequent, that there's been written yet another article for another game making arguments on behalf of developers.

"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  Nanfoodle

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3508

4/09/13 5:41:52 PM#31
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

So you chuck out the story and quests in TES. Now what do you do thats so themepark that would keep people playing? Wander around not changing the world? Everything set up to tell the quests and story written. Its themepark. Welcome to the themepark MMO taken from its origins.

 

My character didn't touch any of the quests. He set off, found a place to live, hunted, crafted and stayed out of the faction fight. Sure sounds like an open system to me.

Sounds like a nice bed time story my monther made up. Or someone who never played the game. (((shrugs)))

  Ktara

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/08
Posts: 38

4/09/13 5:46:57 PM#32
Nanfoodle, let me guess.  You're one of those that finished Skyrim in 10 hours, right?
  Nanfoodle

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3508

4/09/13 5:47:09 PM#33
Originally posted by Ktara

This article didn't mention it, but we're still limited in grouping and socializing outside factions.  Sure, after 50 I can go outside my region, but I'll have to play solo until then since my friends/family won't play my race/faction.  Might as well play Skyrim then.

Here's another game I won't be buying.  I'll just wait for The Repopulation.

Also, to prove the other TES games were sandbox...On my second or third playthough of Oblivion, I never once went near the portals.  I did everything else in the game, maxed out all the skills, and went to all the places.  Put in a bunch of mods and played those.  I still haven't finished Skyrim, I'm about 1/2 way through the story.  I enjoy just walking around doing all the side dungeons and quests and my crafting and skills  are nearly maxed.  This is not a themepark since it's not holding my hand saying "you need to go over here now and finsih this". 

And if my guild and friends want to play the Hord and I wana be a Gnome in WoW, how is that different? Lots of MMOs make you pick a faction. You cant think they can add group play to the TES and call it a MMO. They had to remove things from the single player game that dont fit a MMO and add things that are needed to make it a MMO. This is a moot as its common in many MMOs.

  Nanfoodle

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3508

4/09/13 5:51:25 PM#34
Originally posted by Ktara
Nanfoodle, let me guess.  You're one of those that finished Skyrim in 10 hours, right?

I played the TES games to death over and over again and again. Replayed value to the max but Skyrim is the only one I didnt play because it was rated M. I dont play M rated games and no I am not 10 years old. I am a middle aged married man who does not agree with excessive violence and I am not a fan of blood and gore.

  Deivos

Novice Member

Joined: 10/14/04
Posts: 1703

Iarð skal rifna, ok upphiminn.

4/09/13 5:53:53 PM#35
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Ktara
Nanfoodle, let me guess.  You're one of those that finished Skyrim in 10 hours, right?

I played the TES games to death over and over again and again. Replayed value to the max but Skyrim is the only one I didnt play because it was rated M. I dont play M rated games and no I am not 10 years old. I am a middle aged married man who does not agree with excessive violence and I am not a fan of blood and gore.

And I quote...

 

"Sounds like a nice bed time story my monther made up. Or someone who never played the game. (((shrugs)))"

As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero. - Vaarsuvius

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

4/09/13 5:59:18 PM#36
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by jtcgs

Oh you are one of those...TES was a themepark because it had a story people...

In TES you could make a character, go anywhere right from the start outside of perhaps 2% of the game locked by story and never once do a quest. There were no dungeons with mobs you couldnt kill right after character creation that werent just as tuff 100 hours into the game. You could pick up a tool and do nothing but gather and craft EVERY SINGLE CRAFTING skill up to max, no hinderence, no caps, nothing to stop you from doing it right from the start...no ore or materials in some high level zone, behing some massive uber boss mob requiring 40 people to kill in order to get that super special material to craft that uber item of godlyness. No developer hand holding telling me this race belongs to that faction, nothing limtiing my ability to play the way I WANT TO PLAY.

It was a sandbox.

Now go on, reply with a laugh and no actual refute with ACTUAL THINGS PROVING its a themepark...because you cant, it is a sandbox...skyrim even more so because the developers worked hand in hand with Mod sites to HELP PLAYERS MOD THE GAME and even got Steam to create a MOD STORE!

So you chuck out the story and quests in TES. Now what do you do thats so themepark that would keep people playing? Wander around not changing the world? Everything set up to tell the quests and story written. Its themepark. Welcome to the themepark MMO taken from its origins.

You dont even know what sandbox means let alone themepark.

A Themepark story driven game requires you to do the story to advance. EXAMPLE. In KOTOR you cannot even leave the starting area until you complete the storyline...nor can you move from the first world to the second or from there to ANY OTHER WORLD until you unlock them via storyline.

THAT IS THEMEPARK.

In TES, the WORLD is OPEN without even doing a SINGLE QUEST.

THAT IS SANDPARK.

IN TESO you cannot move forward until you are the correct level and it keeps funnelling you throught the invisible walled in faction right to the center, where they placed the war, you know, the war...which the ENTIRE world is taking part in yet everyone is fighting only at this magical place in the center...

You dont get it, because you dont know what they even are...or you are trolling.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Ktara

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/08
Posts: 38

4/09/13 6:00:04 PM#37
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Ktara

This article didn't mention it, but we're still limited in grouping and socializing outside factions.  Sure, after 50 I can go outside my region, but I'll have to play solo until then since my friends/family won't play my race/faction.  Might as well play Skyrim then.

Here's another game I won't be buying.  I'll just wait for The Repopulation.

Also, to prove the other TES games were sandbox...On my second or third playthough of Oblivion, I never once went near the portals.  I did everything else in the game, maxed out all the skills, and went to all the places.  Put in a bunch of mods and played those.  I still haven't finished Skyrim, I'm about 1/2 way through the story.  I enjoy just walking around doing all the side dungeons and quests and my crafting and skills  are nearly maxed.  This is not a themepark since it's not holding my hand saying "you need to go over here now and finsih this". 

And if my guild and friends want to play the Hord and I wana be a Gnome in WoW, how is that different? Lots of MMOs make you pick a faction. You cant think they can add group play to the TES and call it a MMO. They had to remove things from the single player game that dont fit a MMO and add things that are needed to make it a MMO. This is a moot as its common in many MMOs.

 

I'm not in a guild, nor do I wish to be.  I'd like to play this with my son and boyfriend, but they want to play other factions.  Therefore either two of us settle for playing a race we don't want to to appease the 3rd person, or we all play solo.  It's just not worth the money when we can play The Repopulation together without any of these restrictions.

 
  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

4/09/13 6:04:32 PM#38
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

And if my guild and friends want to play the Hord and I wana be a Gnome in WoW, how is that different? Lots of MMOs make you pick a faction. You cant think they can add group play to the TES and call it a MMO. They had to remove things from the single player game that dont fit a MMO and add things that are needed to make it a MMO. This is a moot as its common in many MMOs.

In Warcraft there was a clear line drawn between factions long before WoW was released...and in WoW there are no invisible walls closing off factions and the world from each other no was everyone funneled into a central PvP area while still trying to claim the WORLD WAS AT WAR!

And much like in WoW, when BC was released and the horde got Elves, PvP didnt suddenly come to a stop with the Alliance players heads filled with derp because they could no longer understand who the enemy was just because the other side had elves too!

Thanks for furthering OUR POINT...TESO has a piss poor game design.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  jmcdermottuk

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 903

4/09/13 6:16:55 PM#39
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Ktara

This article didn't mention it, but we're still limited in grouping and socializing outside factions.  Sure, after 50 I can go outside my region, but I'll have to play solo until then since my friends/family won't play my race/faction.  Might as well play Skyrim then.

Here's another game I won't be buying.  I'll just wait for The Repopulation.

Also, to prove the other TES games were sandbox...On my second or third playthough of Oblivion, I never once went near the portals.  I did everything else in the game, maxed out all the skills, and went to all the places.  Put in a bunch of mods and played those.  I still haven't finished Skyrim, I'm about 1/2 way through the story.  I enjoy just walking around doing all the side dungeons and quests and my crafting and skills  are nearly maxed.  This is not a themepark since it's not holding my hand saying "you need to go over here now and finsih this". 

And if my guild and friends want to play the Hord and I wana be a Gnome in WoW, how is that different? Lots of MMOs make you pick a faction. You cant think they can add group play to the TES and call it a MMO. They had to remove things from the single player game that dont fit a MMO and add things that are needed to make it a MMO. This is a moot as its common in many MMOs.

Lots of MMO's do make you pick a faction, but that not what makes them MMO's. You say things had to be taken out of the SRPG that don't fit a MMO. Like what exactly? Wandering around alone gathering mats and crafting? I seem to recall doing a metric ton of that in SWG.

And "add things that are needed to make it a MMO". Needed eh? Show me the MMO Makers Handbook and the chapter that says "You must have Factions". Factions are something that have been thrown into MMO's as a plot device to explain the presence of PvP. They are not needed to make a MMO. I played EQ on a PvE server and the only PvP to be seen was if two people had a duel. There were no factions you had to join or fight for over some arbitrary piece of game lore.

This is not moot because it is "common in many MMO's", it just shows a lack of imagination in devs who can't come up with something better, different or more interesting. There is no reason at all why you need to have factions in order for it to be a MMO. You don't even need factions to explain away PvP.

EVE online has had full on FFA PvP since day one without factions. There were NPC Empires, yes,but they had absolutely zero impact on the game play. It was all player driven. The only NPC faction you had to worry about in EVE was the Concord police in Empire high security space, because they'd shoot you if you started fighting.

I fail to see the logic of your argument.

  LordSneerg

Novice Member

Joined: 3/21/13
Posts: 121

4/09/13 6:22:03 PM#40

I love the fact this game is going to be faction locked. I can clearly identify the opposing factions (mentioned in article).  Also, the way the are doing it will open up more pve stuff for me in the wife. Everyone is going to cry about different aspects of the game.  I will preorder two CE version of this game and enjoy it while haters do what they do best. HATE. There are a bunch of mmo's coming out. Move on if this faction lock is a killer.  

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