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Defiance

Defiance 

General Discussion  » Is no gear progression like Guild Wars 2 a bad move?

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57 posts found
  User Deleted
4/08/13 1:26:27 PM#41
Originally posted by Aeolron
Originally posted by MikeJezZ
Originally posted by BrownAle

No gear progression?

I mean the gear itself doesnt really progress much, aside from getting better colored gear. 

However you level up that weapon type, and the progression comes from that.

 

So there is gear progression, you just need to keep leveling up your weapon types to unlock additional bonuses.

Also theres progression in mods, your mods can get much, much better than the starter areas mod vendors will provide.

 

There is gear progression, its just not typical mmorpg high fantasy style, and much more progression than in GW2.

Its a different approach and we all know how mmorpg gamers truely hate different!

Much more progression than in GW2?

 

Please.

 

I am ego 500ish. My purple or orange weapons are not better than my starter AR.

Then you don't understand how the stat systems work, some weapons have higher damage output with semi automatic weapons, and some have a high rate of fire with a elemental proc on the weapon. The starter weapons are not better then a say 480ish ego weapon that is green, purple or orange, rate of fire, crit damage ect, the weapons in this game have different play styles and depending on what kind of feel you want in combat will be determined by the weapon you use, each has a very different feel to it.

holy shit your avatar...

 

 

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1906

4/08/13 1:29:44 PM#42
Originally posted by Vyeth

What I fail to understand is, who was this demographic that did not want gear progression? I know people are tired of their WoW raid gear wheels and that's understandable, but to eliminate that from MMO's from the start sounds a little rediculous to me..

At least in the lower levels if anything, of course as you reach the top the difference should be a bit more negligible.. But everyone likes to see progression..

The problem was never about progression whether it be gear or character based, it was how it was always narrowed down to a singular play style:  Raiding.  People started demanding alternate paths of progression, but even the most casual player wants to progress their character, the problem is getting developers to see that and appy it at 'ALL' levels of gameplay for every type of playstyle.

 

Don't forget, first person shooters have traditionally been about player skill and not gear or character influences.  Just because they are making an MMO out of it doesn't mean it will include RPG aspects.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

4/08/13 1:44:42 PM#43

Nice to see companies shift a large part of progression onto the player as opposed to the gear. Yes, like GW2 there is some degree of progression, but it's a mostly flat slope when compared to archaic games like WoW. Someone better than you will beat you no matter how purple you are.

 

That is as it should be.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  User Deleted
4/08/13 2:26:44 PM#44
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Vyeth

What I fail to understand is, who was this demographic that did not want gear progression? I know people are tired of their WoW raid gear wheels and that's understandable, but to eliminate that from MMO's from the start sounds a little rediculous to me..

At least in the lower levels if anything, of course as you reach the top the difference should be a bit more negligible.. But everyone likes to see progression..

The problem was never about progression whether it be gear or character based, it was how it was always narrowed down to a singular play style:  Raiding.  People started demanding alternate paths of progression, but even the most casual player wants to progress their character, the problem is getting developers to see that and appy it at 'ALL' levels of gameplay for every type of playstyle.

 

Don't forget, first person shooters have traditionally been about player skill and not gear or character influences.  Just because they are making an MMO out of it doesn't mean it will include RPG aspects.

Gear progression wasnt eliminated, i just think its high time we moved on from the old wow mechanics...dont you think?  It worked pretty nice for the last 10+ years but what this game does is a nice change of pace.  Im not locked into using the one weapon i got out of the most recent dungeon untill i hit a level cap to run the next dungeon and get the upgrade for it.

That system got a bit boring.  Im running around with one weapon, i know when i get my next weapon, i know what it will be, and thats the end of that.

Defiance has me ditching weapons making new ones better and constantly cycling through them, all while progressing my passive in them.  The weapons are getting better, just not in the base stats. Top it off with my passive skills getting better, which makes really any gun of that type i use a bit better.  its nice for a game with high weapon diversity, it works. 

I wouldnt like the game as much with the wow style system everyones crying for.  I know its hard for some people to figure out a new system that isnt in your face obvious as to what your next weapon will be, and i know its a hard instinct to break when your forced with the choice of ditching a good weapon for a weapon thats slightly worse due to the XP being full on it. 

Once you get over the fact that its not using the old wow/EQ system its actually quite nice to have your weapons changing quickly, while still progressing with them overall.

Am i the only one who finds this hilarious with all the popular cries for no more wow clones, but every time we see a game do it different the same people cry for the old wow systems back.  I get its cool to hate on some stuff because the internet says so, but even when deep down inside you love what you are hating...hilarious.

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1906

4/08/13 2:32:21 PM#45
Originally posted by BrownAle
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Vyeth

What I fail to understand is, who was this demographic that did not want gear progression? I know people are tired of their WoW raid gear wheels and that's understandable, but to eliminate that from MMO's from the start sounds a little rediculous to me..

At least in the lower levels if anything, of course as you reach the top the difference should be a bit more negligible.. But everyone likes to see progression..

The problem was never about progression whether it be gear or character based, it was how it was always narrowed down to a singular play style:  Raiding.  People started demanding alternate paths of progression, but even the most casual player wants to progress their character, the problem is getting developers to see that and appy it at 'ALL' levels of gameplay for every type of playstyle.

 

Don't forget, first person shooters have traditionally been about player skill and not gear or character influences.  Just because they are making an MMO out of it doesn't mean it will include RPG aspects.

Gear progression wasnt eliminated, i just think its high time we moved on from the old wow mechanics...dont you think?  It worked pretty nice for the last 10+ years but what this game does is a nice change of pace.  Im not locked into using the one weapon i got out of the most recent dungeon untill i hit a level cap to run the next dungeon and get the upgrade for it.

That system got a bit boring.  Im running around with one weapon, i know when i get my next weapon, i know what it will be, and thats the end of that.

Defiance has me ditching weapons making new ones better and constantly cycling through them, all while progressing my passive in them.  The weapons are getting better, just not in the base stats. Top it off with my passive skills getting better, which makes really any gun of that type i use a bit better.  its nice for a game with high weapon diversity, it works. 

I wouldnt like the game as much with the wow style system everyones crying for.  I know its hard for some people to figure out a new system that isnt in your face obvious as to what your next weapon will be, and i know its a hard instinct to break when your forced with the choice of ditching a good weapon for a weapon thats slightly worse due to the XP being full on it. 

Once you get over the fact that its not using the old wow/EQ system its actually quite nice to have your weapons changing quickly, while still progressing with them overall.

Am i the only one who finds this hilarious with all the popular cries for no more wow clones, but every time we see a game do it different the same people cry for the old wow systems back.  I get its cool to hate on some stuff because the internet says so, but even when deep down inside you love what you are hating...hilarious.

How you managed to pull WoW out of your hat and apply it to my argument is your issue, not mine.

  User Deleted
4/08/13 2:37:46 PM#46
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by BrownAle
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Vyeth

What I fail to understand is, who was this demographic that did not want gear progression? I know people are tired of their WoW raid gear wheels and that's understandable, but to eliminate that from MMO's from the start sounds a little rediculous to me..

At least in the lower levels if anything, of course as you reach the top the difference should be a bit more negligible.. But everyone likes to see progression..

The problem was never about progression whether it be gear or character based, it was how it was always narrowed down to a singular play style:  Raiding.  People started demanding alternate paths of progression, but even the most casual player wants to progress their character, the problem is getting developers to see that and appy it at 'ALL' levels of gameplay for every type of playstyle.

 

Don't forget, first person shooters have traditionally been about player skill and not gear or character influences.  Just because they are making an MMO out of it doesn't mean it will include RPG aspects.

Gear progression wasnt eliminated, i just think its high time we moved on from the old wow mechanics...dont you think?  It worked pretty nice for the last 10+ years but what this game does is a nice change of pace.  Im not locked into using the one weapon i got out of the most recent dungeon untill i hit a level cap to run the next dungeon and get the upgrade for it.

That system got a bit boring.  Im running around with one weapon, i know when i get my next weapon, i know what it will be, and thats the end of that.

Defiance has me ditching weapons making new ones better and constantly cycling through them, all while progressing my passive in them.  The weapons are getting better, just not in the base stats. Top it off with my passive skills getting better, which makes really any gun of that type i use a bit better.  its nice for a game with high weapon diversity, it works. 

I wouldnt like the game as much with the wow style system everyones crying for.  I know its hard for some people to figure out a new system that isnt in your face obvious as to what your next weapon will be, and i know its a hard instinct to break when your forced with the choice of ditching a good weapon for a weapon thats slightly worse due to the XP being full on it. 

Once you get over the fact that its not using the old wow/EQ system its actually quite nice to have your weapons changing quickly, while still progressing with them overall.

Am i the only one who finds this hilarious with all the popular cries for no more wow clones, but every time we see a game do it different the same people cry for the old wow systems back.  I get its cool to hate on some stuff because the internet says so, but even when deep down inside you love what you are hating...hilarious.

How you managed to pull WoW out of your hat and apply it to my argument is your issue, not mine.

Try reading beyond the word WOW.  I know its hard to do with all the emotions it causes. If it makes it easier for you i can edit it out and use EQ.

  znaiika

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/12
Posts: 202

4/08/13 3:23:21 PM#47

I am only using three types of weapons in Defiance, shotgun, saw, and 15 clip sniper, I am always carry with me granade launcher, light rifle, pistol, and two future weapons.

Mainly, 8 clip shotgun and 80 clip light machine-gun, sometimes sniper rifle.

This is all you need for any type of situition.

Just level these to the top level.

  User Deleted
4/08/13 6:06:09 PM#48
Originally posted by znaiika

I am only using three types of weapons in Defiance, shotgun, saw, and 15 clip sniper, I am always carry with me granade launcher, light rifle, pistol, and two future weapons.

Mainly, 8 clip shotgun and 80 clip light machine-gun, sometimes sniper rifle.

This is all you need for any type of situition.

Just level these to the top level.

I use LMG, Assualt, combat shot guns mainly the mini grenade launcher which does wonders on those midgets with shields, sniper rifle that shoots twice real fast, SMG for really moblie fights, and occasionally ill need to pull a rocket launcher out.

Ive gotten into the habit of adding mods in everything i use, im disliking the scope mods which puts a different zoom scope on the gun as well as a bonus stat, some of the LMG i like to use with the crosshair aim mode with no zoom.

I actually switch it up quite often, LMG is my fall back when stuff gets too hard, i prefer the huge clip and 404 damage type, though theres an assault rifle type i cant find that i use to love.

If the game had Everquest style mmorpg loot i probably wouldnt have switched weapons so much, someting i love about the game right now, when a games loot is built like that you kind of need to use the best weapon you can find.

  Damedius

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/13
Posts: 334

4/08/13 6:25:14 PM#49

The premise of this thread is false. There is most certainly gear progression.  There is also character progression.

The rate of increase on equipment is different than a traditional mmo.

  thecapitaine

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/06/11
Posts: 390

4/08/13 6:51:29 PM#50

The game's progression is suited for what the game is.  Making it scale in ways we're used to would work counter to the way the content is designed.  By keeping the power curve shallow, old areas still pose a challenge, everyone can be productive in dynamic content, and both co-op and competitive scenarios are less uneven.  What's more, there is less of a 'questing greens' feel to loot; any item I pick up can potentially become one of my favorites and I never feel as if I'm chasing that one weapon that will allow me to be on equal footing with the players around me.

Yes, it is a bit eccentric and even a little obtuse-- between color-codes, ego levels, and weapon leveling limitations, it takes a lot of getting used to with not a lot of readily available information in-game.  That's a hurdle that I hope they smooth out over time. It isn't always clear which weapon is better among similar ones but the more I play the more I understand that "better" is often relative and depends a lot more on my playstyle than most MMOs.

As for my favorite guns so far, I really like the infectors for some reason.  Pretty accurate and if you can kill a mob quickly it can spread a bit of havoc through the enemy ranks.  Likewise I find myself using the pistol quite a bit for their accuracy.  Considering how crap I am at shooters, every little bit helps.

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

4/08/13 11:10:08 PM#51
Considering that I got an orange weapon today that is so marginally better than the green one I am currently using (and even that is debateable as to whether it's even better at all) - gear progression and upgrades are pretty much non-existent and useleess.  Really boring actually not having upgrades to look forward to.  It's pretty sad when people salivate over an upgrade that is like <1% better than what they currently have.  Shows how starved people are of feeling of growing in strength.
  Cromica

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 664

4/08/13 11:16:25 PM#52

I personally want an optional gear grind (cosmetic) I don't ever want a stat grind again though.

GW2 already fucked it up also.

  Vorch

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/18/11
Posts: 808

4/08/13 11:17:04 PM#53

What we have here is people demanding skinner boxes instead of fun.

It's not the stats you are chasing, it's the feeling that comes the moment you acquire it. That's why that piece of gear only feels awesome for a short amount of time before you demand that feeling again.

"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

4/09/13 12:34:47 AM#54
Originally posted by Vorch

What we have here is people demanding skinner boxes instead of fun.

It's not the stats you are chasing, it's the feeling that comes the moment you acquire it. That's why that piece of gear only feels awesome for a short amount of time before you demand that feeling again.

Thanks for the psychology course - now give me my better upgrades.  :)

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1906

4/09/13 8:28:51 AM#55
Originally posted by BrownAle
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by BrownAle
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Vyeth

What I fail to understand is, who was this demographic that did not want gear progression? I know people are tired of their WoW raid gear wheels and that's understandable, but to eliminate that from MMO's from the start sounds a little rediculous to me..

At least in the lower levels if anything, of course as you reach the top the difference should be a bit more negligible.. But everyone likes to see progression..

The problem was never about progression whether it be gear or character based, it was how it was always narrowed down to a singular play style:  Raiding.  People started demanding alternate paths of progression, but even the most casual player wants to progress their character, the problem is getting developers to see that and appy it at 'ALL' levels of gameplay for every type of playstyle.

 

Don't forget, first person shooters have traditionally been about player skill and not gear or character influences.  Just because they are making an MMO out of it doesn't mean it will include RPG aspects.

Gear progression wasnt eliminated, i just think its high time we moved on from the old wow mechanics...dont you think?  It worked pretty nice for the last 10+ years but what this game does is a nice change of pace.  Im not locked into using the one weapon i got out of the most recent dungeon untill i hit a level cap to run the next dungeon and get the upgrade for it.

That system got a bit boring.  Im running around with one weapon, i know when i get my next weapon, i know what it will be, and thats the end of that.

Defiance has me ditching weapons making new ones better and constantly cycling through them, all while progressing my passive in them.  The weapons are getting better, just not in the base stats. Top it off with my passive skills getting better, which makes really any gun of that type i use a bit better.  its nice for a game with high weapon diversity, it works. 

I wouldnt like the game as much with the wow style system everyones crying for.  I know its hard for some people to figure out a new system that isnt in your face obvious as to what your next weapon will be, and i know its a hard instinct to break when your forced with the choice of ditching a good weapon for a weapon thats slightly worse due to the XP being full on it. 

Once you get over the fact that its not using the old wow/EQ system its actually quite nice to have your weapons changing quickly, while still progressing with them overall.

Am i the only one who finds this hilarious with all the popular cries for no more wow clones, but every time we see a game do it different the same people cry for the old wow systems back.  I get its cool to hate on some stuff because the internet says so, but even when deep down inside you love what you are hating...hilarious.

How you managed to pull WoW out of your hat and apply it to my argument is your issue, not mine.

Try reading beyond the word WOW.  I know its hard to do with all the emotions it causes. If it makes it easier for you i can edit it out and use EQ.

You make a lot of assumptions based on your own personal idiosyncracies bud and try to apply them to others.  That's why you use arguments with accusations of me wanting WoW style mechanics in my games.  Liking loot progression in a game is not even remotely the same as wanting systems used in previous games that you pull out of your ass.  You also seem to completely ignore my reference to character progression being just as important to casuals as gear can be.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12097

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

4/09/13 8:33:36 AM#56

So is it that the devs are uncreative, or is it that their hands are kind of tied because they need to create their game like WoW or people will reject it?

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  Liddokun

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/03
Posts: 1666

4/09/13 2:18:01 PM#57
I prefer the no gear progression move. This is a player skill based shooter not how uber your guild that got you the gear is.  I think progression can satisfactorily be measured thru other means such as titles, costumes, vehicles, and "weapon skins". I'm tired of the WoW gear progression grind.
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