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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Fed up.. There's rules in every game.

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186 posts found
  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4888

4/08/13 11:28:10 AM#61
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

I play football, what would that game be like with people picking what rules they dont like? Rules are what defines the game. Rules are what gives us comfort that when we play we know what we will face off against. There are some rules in football I would like to change but I am sure many others would like to as well but if they listened to everyone and changed every rule to fit everyone, would it be football any more. Rules define the game! ESO has been set up to be a very specific game. If you dont like the rules then maybe this is not the game for you. 

Faction lock must stay but races maybe something that changes like in SWToR. Earn new races to make them uncommon and fun. You have to remember this is a MMO with years of growth to come and updated. The only core to this game when it comes to AvA is the faction locks to keep realm pride and to give pure PvEers their space to. Is there others ways to do that? Maybe, but no one has done that better then the DAoC model. The rules tell you game you are playing.

I'm not sure I undertsand this post. You are using football which has had numerous rule changes throughout the years as an example of why rules shouldn't be changed? Since 1941 the NFL has changed or added rules over 40 times.  

 

Read my post above. My point is very simple, the rules are set up to make a game. Sure rules change but normally not in a way to change the core game. If they did, you would have a different game. So if you dont like the rules of the game, then you must not like the core of the game. If thats the case its time to look for a new game. The ESO team is really set on bringing us the game they planed to. Even the changes of the exploring other factions is done in a way that does not change the core of the 3 faction war. If they did, we would have a different game. 

IMO yelling at a company 6 years in development to make a different game is foolish. Instead come up with ideas and sugestions that can get you what you want without demanding they break the core of what makes ESO, ESO. Want more races, suggest they let player earn them by exploring the other factions map. Maybe a quest where you save a Darkelf kid and now you can roll a Darkelf. Nows its rare and fun and fits in with the core game. 

I'm not sure what you mean as far as "Core" goes. I don't see faction locked races as much of a "Core" type of thing. The factions themselves could be considered part of the core due to the RvR focus of the game but allowing people to choose their faction doesn't deviate from the core as far as I can see. 

 

I'm also not to sure you can saying complaining is foolish. They've already made changes, I imagine if enough people are still dissatisfied more changes will be made and it certainly seems that enough people are dissatisfied. One of the biggest complaints against the game seems to be faction lock. 

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3431

4/08/13 11:44:55 AM#62
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

I play football, what would that game be like with people picking what rules they dont like? Rules are what defines the game. Rules are what gives us comfort that when we play we know what we will face off against. There are some rules in football I would like to change but I am sure many others would like to as well but if they listened to everyone and changed every rule to fit everyone, would it be football any more. Rules define the game! ESO has been set up to be a very specific game. If you dont like the rules then maybe this is not the game for you. 

Faction lock must stay but races maybe something that changes like in SWToR. Earn new races to make them uncommon and fun. You have to remember this is a MMO with years of growth to come and updated. The only core to this game when it comes to AvA is the faction locks to keep realm pride and to give pure PvEers their space to. Is there others ways to do that? Maybe, but no one has done that better then the DAoC model. The rules tell you game you are playing.

I'm not sure I undertsand this post. You are using football which has had numerous rule changes throughout the years as an example of why rules shouldn't be changed? Since 1941 the NFL has changed or added rules over 40 times.  

 

Read my post above. My point is very simple, the rules are set up to make a game. Sure rules change but normally not in a way to change the core game. If they did, you would have a different game. So if you dont like the rules of the game, then you must not like the core of the game. If thats the case its time to look for a new game. The ESO team is really set on bringing us the game they planed to. Even the changes of the exploring other factions is done in a way that does not change the core of the 3 faction war. If they did, we would have a different game. 

IMO yelling at a company 6 years in development to make a different game is foolish. Instead come up with ideas and sugestions that can get you what you want without demanding they break the core of what makes ESO, ESO. Want more races, suggest they let player earn them by exploring the other factions map. Maybe a quest where you save a Darkelf kid and now you can roll a Darkelf. Nows its rare and fun and fits in with the core game. 

I'm not sure what you mean as far as "Core" goes. I don't see faction locked races as much of a "Core" type of thing. The factions themselves could be considered part of the core due to the RvR focus of the game but allowing people to choose their faction doesn't deviate from the core as far as I can see. 

 

I'm also not to sure you can saying complaining is foolish. They've already made changes, I imagine if enough people are still dissatisfied more changes will be made and it certainly seems that enough people are dissatisfied. One of the biggest complaints against the game seems to be faction lock. 

The core system taken from DAoC is this, 3 factions with their own maps. The 3 factions dont mix and all PvP is focused on one map. This makes PvP in this model focused and you end up with more large scale wars. If the AvA map is doen right, giving factions rewards for winning in AvA, that with the faction lock should bring a great faction pride. Also this gives PURE PvEers a place to PvE without getting attacked or forced to flag.

The changes made you talked about didnt break that core of what they were shooting for with PvP. Complanining is rarely worth doing. Asking for what you want as a customer a much better approach. I think we would be better off coming up with ideas that can give us what we want, without breaking the core of what the devs are trying to make ESO into. 

Want more race cross over why bitch about it when we could give the dev team reasons to give us more races on each faction. If we can come up with a way that it will take less dev time to do so. We have a better chance of them listening. Like suggesting new races would mean the art team would need to spend a lot of time coming up with armor, crafting system would need to be revamped. 

This has always been my stand. Stop asking the ESO devs to chuck out what they have made and find ways to get what we want without breaking whats already there. If we do, we may get what we want. My suggestion is lettng people earn races from the other factions after launch. Not sure how but SWToR did it. Rare to see a Sith pureblood Jedi but it was cool when you did.

  Eir_S

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4700

GW2 socialist.

4/08/13 11:49:28 AM#63
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Stop asking the ESO devs to chuck out what they have made and find ways to get what we want without breaking whats already there. If we do, we may get what we want. My suggestion is lettng people earn races from the other factions after launch. Not sure how but SWToR did it. Rare to see a Sith pureblood Jedi but it was cool when you did.

I agree, but that right there seems to be par for the course on gaming forums nowadays.  It's like some people are simply not happy that there's something called variety.  Yet in the same breath, these people will curse devs for not being creative.  I'd hate to be in the MMO industry.  They're like slaves with their hands tied.

  aylwynn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/09/13
Posts: 95

4/08/13 1:09:10 PM#64
Originally posted by WellzyC

 

In real life there are rules..

 

In games there are rules..

 

Race limitation, Faction locks are rules..

 

Rules make games fun, without rules there is no game..

 

 

Quit complaining about race limitation, and faction lock,... rules have been around since you were 7 years old playing candy land.. get over it.

 

 

Thx, have a great day.

 

+ The Elder Scrolls games have rules.

 

And aylwynn rules.

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

4/08/13 1:15:59 PM#65
Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Yep, there are all kind of rules. Lets look at some that are still on the books in some places. 

These are just from Massachusettes. 

 

All men must carry a rifle to church on Sunday.

 

It is illegal to go to bed without first having a full bath.

 

A woman can not be on top in sexual activities.

 

Tattooing and body piercing is illegal. (Repealed in 2000)

 

Children may smoke, but they may not purchase cigarettes.

 

Snoring is prohibited unless all bedroom windows are closed and securely locked.

 

Not all rules are good rules. 

Thanks for the off topic rule list and for stating the obvious at the end, but here is the jist of the OP.

"Rules make games fun, without rules there is no game.."

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1912

4/08/13 1:17:00 PM#66
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Yep, there are all kind of rules. Lets look at some that are still on the books in some places. 

These are just from Massachusettes. 

 

All men must carry a rifle to church on Sunday.

 

It is illegal to go to bed without first having a full bath.

 

A woman can not be on top in sexual activities.

 

Tattooing and body piercing is illegal. (Repealed in 2000)

 

Children may smoke, but they may not purchase cigarettes.

 

Snoring is prohibited unless all bedroom windows are closed and securely locked.

 

Not all rules are good rules. 

Those aren't game rules...

Sorry, OP brought up the fact than in real life there are rules and is trying to use the existence of a rule as the validation of said rule. I pointed out some real life rules in an attempt to show that not all rules are good and or needed. Just because a rule exists it does not make it right or needed. 

 

good now point out one of those rules that you listed that are enforced, or arnt superceded by anopther law.

oh and also i want you to try and go to any other country besides canada and tell them its not fair you cant be thier without a passport, and see what happens. better yet go to a country we are not on friendly terms with.

Actually I can't point to one of those that are enforced or that isn't superceded by another law. 

See people complain about rules they don't agree with and ask those in a position to do something about them to change them. These rules then get changed if the argument against them is persuasive or valid enough. 

Sorry, I intentionally lead you here to make a point. Rules and laws exist and some times people disgaree with them. When they disagree with them they present valid arguments as to why they should be changed. If you think a law or rule should remain as is then you should also present a valid argument. 

When one side is stating their dislike for something and giving reasons why they dislike it you can't exactly counter it with "Its the rules and they are just whiney casuals and shouldn't be listened to". Lets say you disagreed with a law and someone that agreed with it made a pretty valid case, how well do you think a thread or post like the ones you've made here will counter it?  

Bingo.

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1912

4/08/13 1:21:52 PM#67
Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Yep, there are all kind of rules. Lets look at some that are still on the books in some places. 

These are just from Massachusettes. 

 

All men must carry a rifle to church on Sunday.

 

It is illegal to go to bed without first having a full bath.

 

A woman can not be on top in sexual activities.

 

Tattooing and body piercing is illegal. (Repealed in 2000)

 

Children may smoke, but they may not purchase cigarettes.

 

Snoring is prohibited unless all bedroom windows are closed and securely locked.

 

Not all rules are good rules. 

Thanks for the off topic rule list and for stating the obvious at the end, but here is the jist of the OP.

"Rules make games fun, without rules there is no game.."

Good grief, that completely flew over your head, didn't it.  People aren't asking for a ruleless game, they are asking for different rules.  Being able to explore the entire continent is a rule.  Being able to choose the faction you want despite your race, is another rule.  Not being forced to PvP at end game is yet another rule.  All of these choices combine into the game's rule set.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3431

4/08/13 1:39:10 PM#68
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Yep, there are all kind of rules. Lets look at some that are still on the books in some places. 

These are just from Massachusettes. 

 

All men must carry a rifle to church on Sunday.

 

It is illegal to go to bed without first having a full bath.

 

A woman can not be on top in sexual activities.

 

Tattooing and body piercing is illegal. (Repealed in 2000)

 

Children may smoke, but they may not purchase cigarettes.

 

Snoring is prohibited unless all bedroom windows are closed and securely locked.

 

Not all rules are good rules. 

Thanks for the off topic rule list and for stating the obvious at the end, but here is the jist of the OP.

"Rules make games fun, without rules there is no game.."

Good grief, that completely flew over your head, didn't it.  People aren't asking for a ruleless game, they are asking for different rules.  Being able to explore the entire continent is a rule.  Being able to choose the faction you want despite your race, is another rule.  Not being forced to PvP at end game is yet another rule.  All of these choices combine into the game's rule set.

And when you have a new set of rules you have another game. So the OP is asking the devs go back and make a different game? That seems like a silly move after this has been in the works for almost 6 years.

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1912

4/08/13 2:33:59 PM#69
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Yep, there are all kind of rules. Lets look at some that are still on the books in some places. 

These are just from Massachusettes. 

 

All men must carry a rifle to church on Sunday.

 

It is illegal to go to bed without first having a full bath.

 

A woman can not be on top in sexual activities.

 

Tattooing and body piercing is illegal. (Repealed in 2000)

 

Children may smoke, but they may not purchase cigarettes.

 

Snoring is prohibited unless all bedroom windows are closed and securely locked.

 

Not all rules are good rules. 

Thanks for the off topic rule list and for stating the obvious at the end, but here is the jist of the OP.

"Rules make games fun, without rules there is no game.."

Good grief, that completely flew over your head, didn't it.  People aren't asking for a ruleless game, they are asking for different rules.  Being able to explore the entire continent is a rule.  Being able to choose the faction you want despite your race, is another rule.  Not being forced to PvP at end game is yet another rule.  All of these choices combine into the game's rule set.

And when you have a new set of rules you have another game. So the OP is asking the devs go back and make a different game? That seems like a silly move after this has been in the works for almost 6 years.

It's in development and the ones doing the requesting are elder scrolls fans asking for elder scrolls mechanics and game design.  It's not like they're pulling it out of their collective asses and asking for stuff that has nothing to do with the franchise, but whatever.

  xSh0x

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/19/07
Posts: 127

4/08/13 2:45:10 PM#70
Originally posted by WellzyC

 

In real life there are rules..

 

In games there are rules..

 

Race limitation, Faction locks are rules..

 

Rules make games fun, without rules there is no game..

 

 

Quit complaining about race limitation, and faction lock,... rules have been around since you were 7 years old playing candy land.. get over it.

 

 

Thx, have a great day.

Why not let the players make the rules?

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3431

4/08/13 2:57:07 PM#71
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Yep, there are all kind of rules. Lets look at some that are still on the books in some places. 

These are just from Massachusettes. 

 

All men must carry a rifle to church on Sunday.

 

It is illegal to go to bed without first having a full bath.

 

A woman can not be on top in sexual activities.

 

Tattooing and body piercing is illegal. (Repealed in 2000)

 

Children may smoke, but they may not purchase cigarettes.

 

Snoring is prohibited unless all bedroom windows are closed and securely locked.

 

Not all rules are good rules. 

Thanks for the off topic rule list and for stating the obvious at the end, but here is the jist of the OP.

"Rules make games fun, without rules there is no game.."

Good grief, that completely flew over your head, didn't it.  People aren't asking for a ruleless game, they are asking for different rules.  Being able to explore the entire continent is a rule.  Being able to choose the faction you want despite your race, is another rule.  Not being forced to PvP at end game is yet another rule.  All of these choices combine into the game's rule set.

And when you have a new set of rules you have another game. So the OP is asking the devs go back and make a different game? That seems like a silly move after this has been in the works for almost 6 years.

It's in development and the ones doing the requesting are elder scrolls fans asking for elder scrolls mechanics and game design.  It's not like they're pulling it out of their collective asses and asking for stuff that has nothing to do with the franchise, but whatever.

Ok here is where you lose. Its 6 years in so the core mechanics are in and almost done. As for who asking for the changes, yes some of you are TES fans. But there are also TES fans like me who are very happy with the game they have made. I have been playing TES sinse they were 8 bit games. Yelling this dose not fit TES model is IMO a fools move for 2 reasons.

1. This is a 1000 years outside the games. What makes a single player game does not work in a MMO so things need to be added and taken away. TES is not a sandbox game its more themepark then anything. So they picked a awesome themepark game that is the gold standard for PvP. Every PvP game thats been made over the past 10 years and been compaired to DAoC. 

2. MMOs need to grow or die. Mario started fixing pipes. When we got super mario brothers we didnt yell what the heck is the side scroller? Then Mario went 3D and is roaming the stars. Warcraft RTS became WoW and is nothing like its start, everyone plays a Hero, WHAT?!?!?! 2 Heros a map thats it, whats this crafting crap? Games grow and become more then their roots. Thats a good thing.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3431

4/08/13 2:59:30 PM#72
Originally posted by xSh0x
Originally posted by WellzyC

 

In real life there are rules..

 

In games there are rules..

 

Race limitation, Faction locks are rules..

 

Rules make games fun, without rules there is no game..

 

 

Quit complaining about race limitation, and faction lock,... rules have been around since you were 7 years old playing candy land.. get over it.

 

 

Thx, have a great day.

Why not let the players make the rules?

Ok and then in RL lets let anyone make new laws? Most people would need to lock their doors and never leave their homes. Someone needs to make the rules that heads in a direction of their vision. Thats how you have order and goals to work towards for our greater good.

  xSh0x

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/19/07
Posts: 127

4/08/13 3:15:02 PM#73
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by xSh0x
Originally posted by WellzyC

 

In real life there are rules..

 

In games there are rules..

 

Race limitation, Faction locks are rules..

 

Rules make games fun, without rules there is no game..

 

 

Quit complaining about race limitation, and faction lock,... rules have been around since you were 7 years old playing candy land.. get over it.

 

 

Thx, have a great day.

Why not let the players make the rules?

Ok and then in RL lets let anyone make new laws? Most people would need to lock their doors and never leave their homes. Someone needs to make the rules that heads in a direction of their vision. Thats how you have order and goals to work towards for our greater good.

Anyone can try to make new laws.  That's how they come in to being in the first place.  And what separates the fantasy dedication and roleplaying ability of a developer versus a gamer?  

Developers are few, but the gamers are many.  Its the massive collection of "visions" that separate an MMORPG from a single player game.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3431

4/08/13 3:40:36 PM#74
Originally posted by xSh0x
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by xSh0x
Originally posted by WellzyC

 

In real life there are rules..

 

In games there are rules..

 

Race limitation, Faction locks are rules..

 

Rules make games fun, without rules there is no game..

 

 

Quit complaining about race limitation, and faction lock,... rules have been around since you were 7 years old playing candy land.. get over it.

 

 

Thx, have a great day.

Why not let the players make the rules?

Ok and then in RL lets let anyone make new laws? Most people would need to lock their doors and never leave their homes. Someone needs to make the rules that heads in a direction of their vision. Thats how you have order and goals to work towards for our greater good.

Anyone can try to make new laws.  That's how they come in to being in the first place.  And what separates the fantasy dedication and roleplaying ability of a developer versus a gamer?  

Developers are few, but the gamers are many.  Its the massive collection of "visions" that separate an MMORPG from a single player game.

Not that simple but my point still stands. Comes down to, Too many cooks in the kitchen, Too many chiefs and too few indians. Things always work better when a small group of people pick a focus and goal and the rest follow. IMO they should ignore 99.999999999% of whats said on the forums. Sure look for feedback but only pick what fits their vision.

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2111

joie de vivre

4/08/13 3:43:29 PM#75

Without loss, their is no gain. Without consequence, their is no meaning.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  BizkitNL

Old School

Joined: 12/29/02
Posts: 2286

"Free to play, pay to win""

4/08/13 3:43:32 PM#76

Feel like trying Planetside 2? Get a headstart with the starter kit!

  cakelizard

Novice Member

Joined: 6/08/08
Posts: 61

4/08/13 3:45:24 PM#77
some kids liked playing board games and some kids like playing with legos. the problem with the market right now is were seeing soo many board games with slight changes vs a new set of lego's  its aggravating.
  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2851

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

4/08/13 3:48:47 PM#78

The problem is, "does this game really need those certain rules (restrictions) applied to it?" 

 

Much like SWTOR did, the game itself is really hampering down elemeents of its original series that made people enjoy it, particularly for the element of making it work in an MMO world. Naturally, there WOULD need to be some give-way to allow for the series to work on a massive setting. The issue comes when its making un-needed compromises in order to be more like other "Mmos".

 

In terms of what they are doing, to me it feels like they are making some choices that are rather lack luster for the series in hopes of garnishing attention from players who wouldn't normally be into the Elder Scrolls series, much like SWTOR did for those who weren't huge on the Kotor series. 

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15535

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

4/08/13 3:52:23 PM#79
Originally posted by BizkitNL

Did someone say Candyland?

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1396193475/candyland

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3431

4/08/13 3:54:20 PM#80
Originally posted by BizkitNL

Did someone say Candyland?

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1396193475/candyland

Kickstart thing is starting to make me sick. They found a way to make begging on the internet cool. WHAT THE HECK?!?!?!?!?!

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