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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Fetch Quest MMO, how much longer can you milk this cow.

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128 posts found
  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3849

RIP City of Heroes!

4/07/13 4:09:45 PM#21
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Have the quests all in instances, so you can have your own "world" change around you?

Make combat actiony and fun for a long time (like ARPG)?

Minmic SP games and have good stories?

 

 PVP isn't endlessly different enough.  It's very repeatative and  not sustainable fun.

  Vembumees

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/13
Posts: 87

4/07/13 4:13:39 PM#22
There isn't even one thing in the world that isn't hated by someone.
  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

4/07/13 4:16:08 PM#23
Originally posted by Vembumees
There isn't even one thing in the world that isn't hated by someone.

 You know what everybody likes? Parfaits! Have you ever met a person, you say, "Let's get some parfait," they say, "Hell no, I don't like no parfait"? Parfaits are delicious!

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Squeak69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 972

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

4/07/13 4:16:29 PM#24
Originally posted by Vembumees
There isn't even one thing in the world that isn't hated by someone.

bunny rabbits george?

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  rojoArcueid

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5803

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

4/07/13 4:26:42 PM#25
Originally posted by Squeak69
BETTER QUESTION, explain in detail alternatives to this.

dynamic progression. A much longer, varied, improved version of GW2 events but without repeating. An actual simulation of a living world. I wouldnt need to kill 10 bears to collect one tooth form each bear. Why not instead i go out hunting the bears and they are actually hunting unaware people (npc and players) in the wild instead of just walking back n forth waiting for you to kill them.

What about you go out exploring and you kill some goblins on the way and a short while later you hear in town that the goblins are going mad (and take revenge) burning villages and actually killing NPCs. Similar to GW2 but more indepth so it doesnt just repeat the same event, instead the players who excel at crafting can help npcs rebuild towns and actually new npcs merchants would come form other towns to work there (since the old merchants were killed by the attack if you didnt save any), etc. And it doesnt repeat, instead it keeps evolving. Players who missed X part of an event missed it for good, but when you log back you actually see the outcome of whatever you missed. Just like in real life. You missed something, you take part in whatever the outcome is and keep going from there. An ever evolving world.

Player generated content can help greatly form this progression system so we dont have to depend on heavily themeparkish ideas from devs, we could actually build our own progression as we play, with the help of ever evolving dynamic events and sandbox elements.

 

Just sharing my ideas. i would totally enjoy that long term. Like i said before, GW2 set my standanrd in questing progression. I expect new mmos to have better questing than GW2, not old generic crappy stuff

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20536

4/08/13 12:25:09 AM#26
Originally posted by Aelious
I'm not sure how making an MMO more like a SP makes any sense. How's abouts those that want SP games play SP games so the devs can create content many people can play at the same time... Kinda like an MMO 8-o

How about those who like SP games play SP games, and MMO who are made like SP games?

If a dev wants to tap into the SP audience, and did a fair job, i don't see why i should not play a MMO like a SP game.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20536

4/08/13 12:26:00 AM#27
Originally posted by ignore_me
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by zekeofev

Well I dislike the specific direction and hand holding past the very introduction levels. But I understand that a lot of people really enjoy that direction.

 

Unfortuneately, I do not think it is going away soon.

I don't think it's a bad thing at all.  If you just have to wander around aimlessly to find something for hours on end to finish a quest, it gets boring.  The point of a game is to be fun.  Being bored is not fun.

Best solutin is instanced story quests .. do them like SP games with environment changing, NPC responding to you ...

STO has pretty good Star Treky missions. That is a good example.

Game designers like this idea because once you exhaust the linear quest lines you have to get a new game.

Yeah .. and i like the ideas of getting new games too. So i will call it a win-win. It is a particularly big win for the players when the games are F2P.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20536

4/08/13 12:26:42 AM#28
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Have the quests all in instances, so you can have your own "world" change around you?

Make combat actiony and fun for a long time (like ARPG)?

Minmic SP games and have good stories?

 

 PVP isn't endlessly different enough.  It's very repeatative and  not sustainable fun.

uh? Where did i say anything about PvP? Everything i said is about pve.

  Karelia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/12
Posts: 688

4/08/13 12:40:44 AM#29

the point is not the quests, its the levels. when a char must reach a spesific amount of levels, there always going to be quests.

either they call them hubs, events or whatever they are boring and repeatable quests. i dont care if they exist in a mmo but i care if i MUST use them.

so imho the solution is to take away the levels. make games skill based and not lvl based. make xp coming by using skills, weapons, exploration, running dungeons, raids, events, killing players etc. by just playing. and let quests too. i dont care if its just an option for any1 that likes them. i care when i m forced to do them too :)

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20536

4/08/13 11:36:17 AM#30
Originally posted by Manolios

the point is not the quests, its the levels. when a char must reach a spesific amount of levels, there always going to be quests.

either they call them hubs, events or whatever they are boring and repeatable quests. i dont care if they exist in a mmo but i care if i MUST use them.

so imho the solution is to take away the levels. make games skill based and not lvl based. make xp coming by using skills, weapons, exploration, running dungeons, raids, events, killing players etc. by just playing. and let quests too. i dont care if its just an option for any1 that likes them. i care when i m forced to do them too :)

There are plenty of games that have levels and no quests. WoT, for example. Or Star Conflict. You don't need to do away levels to do away quests.

The quests are there because players want them. Simple supply & demand.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

4/08/13 11:52:17 AM#31
maybe if you back some indie developers on kickstarter you will get some more interesting and not so much "by the numbers" games 

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4300

4/08/13 11:54:51 AM#32
Originally posted by Waterlily

How do MMO designers have jobs at this point. really how do these people have jobs.

It's one thing to take the casual solo quest grind gameplay of WoW, it's another to use it in every MMO and call your MMO innovative. Just call it WoW-clone 326.

If I see one more  kill bugs 0/6 quest in a game, or give this letter to Gandalf 0/1 quest , I am going to punch a designer in the face.

Well millinos of people seem to be lapping these games up evertime one gets released... they wont stop until people stop buying them..

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Effin_Rabbit

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/05
Posts: 726

This Rabbit stinks!

4/08/13 12:07:15 PM#33
I dont mind them if they are done right, look at Elder Scrolls which is one of my favorite titles ever and youll find that a great deal of quests are fetch quests but they are far from the boring mmorpg style fetch quests (for the most part) because interesting things happen during them that may lead you in a new direction or bring something to your attention that otherwise went noticed previously. I think its the crafting of the quests and the delivery more than the actual objective that make a quest fun. Bad design - gather 10 items from mobs that have 10% chance to drop said item resulting in having to kill 50 of the same mob in hopes of a drop. Better design - gather 10 items from  nodes/objectives placed  in an area that mobs populate, if you kill X amount of mobs while you complete your task you get a bonus.
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20536

4/08/13 12:19:10 PM#34
Originally posted by Aerowyn
maybe if you back some indie developers on kickstarter you will get some more interesting and not so much "by the numbers" games 

There are already tons of indie devs without going to KS.

Plus, people like "by the number" games, and they sell .. otherwise, not so many of them will be produced.

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2594

4/08/13 12:24:15 PM#35
Originally posted by Squeak69
BETTER QUESTION, explain in detail alternatives to this.

MMO questing pre WoW? There, I've improved it.

 

Multiple ways to level.

  birdycephon

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/09
Posts: 1327

Not Safe For Woona (NSFW)

4/08/13 12:39:52 PM#36
Naw, see here yall. Back in the day, quests used to be something. I remember, quests used to be epic. Now everything is a quest. 'Go to the grocery store,' thats a quest. 'Take out the trash,' thats a quest. I remember quests used to be all about adventure. All they told you was theres trasure in dem hills, and yous was supposed to find it, or not find it dependin on who you ask. And more often then not, yous didnt even have a map. Now, yous even got a little glowy trail thing pointing you right to it. What de hell kinda adventure is that?
  Konfess

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/07
Posts: 795

4/08/13 1:32:10 PM#37
Originally posted by fivoroth

I would love to hear about the "alternatives". You say that MMOs shouldn't do quests which are of the "kill x mobs", "collect x stuff" and "talk to NPC X" variety but can you give examples of alternatives? For example, GW2 does hearts and dynamic events but every single heart/dynamic event I can think of is one of these:

1) kill x number of mobs

2) colelct x number of stuff

3) talk  to NPC X

4) Escort NPC X - god how much I hate escort quests. And GW2 brought shitloads of them!

Sooooo, can you think of anything " new"?

I have no problem with the MMO list of 4.  Remember that all MMOs are an GUI to a database.  Data has four basic types Integer, float, string, and bool.  Realize that any “new” quest type must still be bound by these data types.  BTW /duel, /flag, or /queue-for-pvp already exist and don’t count as “new” quest types.

And this is what I think of most "new" quests any ways.

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/photo/cdf8084c-8879-43fc-b8b5-1a703fb7bb3e

Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
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  birdycephon

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/09
Posts: 1327

Not Safe For Woona (NSFW)

4/08/13 1:45:09 PM#38
Originally posted by Konfess
Originally posted by fivoroth

I would love to hear about the "alternatives". You say that MMOs shouldn't do quests which are of the "kill x mobs", "collect x stuff" and "talk to NPC X" variety but can you give examples of alternatives? For example, GW2 does hearts and dynamic events but every single heart/dynamic event I can think of is one of these:

1) kill x number of mobs

2) colelct x number of stuff

3) talk  to NPC X

4) Escort NPC X - god how much I hate escort quests. And GW2 brought shitloads of them!

Sooooo, can you think of anything " new"?

I have no problem with the MMO list of 4.  Remember that all MMOs are an GUI to a database.  Data has four basic types Integer, float, string, and bool.  Realize that any “new” quest type must still be bound by these data types.  BTW /duel, /flag, or /queue-for-pvp already exist and don’t count as “new” quest types.

And this is what I think of most "new" quests any ways.

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/photo/cdf8084c-8879-43fc-b8b5-1a703fb7bb3e

 

And dont forget that all quests are bound by the rule of 1's and 0's.
  uidCaustic

Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/11
Posts: 148

4/08/13 1:47:48 PM#39
Originally posted by Waterlily

How do MMO designers have jobs at this point. really how do these people have jobs.

It's one thing to take the casual solo quest grind gameplay of WoW, it's another to use it in every MMO and call your MMO innovative. Just call it WoW-clone 326.

If I see one more  kill bugs 0/6 quest in a game, or give this letter to Gandalf 0/1 quest , I am going to punch a designer in the face.

Then we can call WoW the EQ Clone 231... and that one the UO Clone 994.. OH OH THEN THAT ONE THE REALM CLONE 2345!!!

People that consider WoW the benchmark make any point they may have had invalid.

  nbtscan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/06/06
Posts: 519

4/08/13 1:52:21 PM#40

It's tough to re-create a single player game from the perspective of questing in an MMO because you're going to get the same experience - a 40 hour game that you quit after you "beat" it.

 

Apart from WoW type quests and monster grinding I really don't know what else can be done to revolutionize this aspect of MMOs.  (the leveling up part)

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