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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » MMO are dying.

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260 posts found
  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3690

4/05/13 6:32:05 PM#221
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by NorseGod
 

Doesn't change the fact that these amazing games you boast about coming out every year only last a month or so, or, technically they last :rollseyes:, I mean hobble along with gimmicks.

So what? A great fun 1 month is better than a mediocre 1 year.

Entertainment does not have to be long to be good. Is a longer movie always better? Is a longer novel always better?

 

True. But what about those MMOs that were good to play for years at a time?

I honestly don't know that they really were good to play for years at a time.  Back in the day, those were the only choices  you had, if you wanted to play an MMO, you could pick from product A, B or C.    It really wasn't much of a choice and people stuck with games, not because the games were great, but because it was all there was.  I  got pretty damn bored with a lot of those games back then, but if I wanted to play that kind of game... there it was.

Just because a relatively few people sit on a game for years at a time doesn't really mean it's great overall.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  Fraden

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/05
Posts: 54

Why am I even typing this?

4/05/13 6:32:54 PM#222

First of all I agree with the guy above me (excuse the hyperlinked text as mmorpg.com messed it all up). I played Asheron's Call for over 5 years, but now that I think of it.. it wasn't amazing. It was pretty good, but in the end I found myself quiting and re-subbing for one simple reason, there was literally nothing else to play. 

 

However I disagree that there isn't any hope at all. There is some, EoC looks ok, Origins of Malu looks to shaping up very nicely. Archeage also comes to mind, and one of my favorite sounding ones is Divergence.

You could check out this game and see if you think MMO's are truly dead. They will be if more projects like this dont start pushing larger companies to be inventive. Maybe it wont be a huge success, maybe it wont live up to everything it says it will, but it's a start, and you have to start pushing to start anything.

<a data-cke-saved-href="http://www.mmorpg.com/profile.cfm/username/Cephus404" href="http://www.mmorpg.com/profile.cfm/username/Cephus404" title="View information about Cephus404" suhlink"=""> 

http://divergence-online.wix.com/divergence-online

 

They also interviewed the guy here on mmorpg.com: 

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/269/feature/7282/Introducing-a-Hardcore-Sandbox-MMO.html#post

(It sucks you dont wanna see it)

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5233

4/06/13 4:45:47 AM#223
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Dying? They're stone dead. They've been dead for a solid 8 years now. 

Yup, the multi-billion dollar a year industry is dead.  Riiiiiiight...

 

Come on we have had all these arguments before, if an industry is still making money that does not mean the newer product is better. You can have an inferior product, which you sell to more people and make lots of money. That's where MMO's are rigjht now.

And the industry is looking to sell to even more people, expanding into the social media market. With games on small screen platforms with smaller processing power and memory. They are making lots of money though, are you going to say these games on mobiles and tablets are better as well?

  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2183

First came pride, then envy.

4/06/13 4:57:32 AM#224

MMOs of the past weren't that different from multiplayer games.  The concepts of a persistent, online world, was still new and developing, but that doesn't mean they were better.  Past, and current, MMOs are still the same in concept; online worlds, sharing the same virtual space, whether instanced or open-world.  Both instances and open-world concepts are used differently and work for different purposes.

To suggest that MMOs are dying because they use different mechanics, designs, and alogrithms, for different purposes,  is nonsense.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5233

4/07/13 3:25:47 AM#225
Likewise to say two things are the same because they share the same concept is nonsense. Implementation of the concept can make games or for that matter anything else have huge differences.
  delete5230

Elite Member

Joined: 8/15/07
Posts: 2535

4/07/13 3:49:19 AM#226

I agree with the OP in many ways.  Community was #1, now its last.

What I don't agree is that its because of the players choice.  Now that is what everyone thinks so I understand where the OP gets this from.  BUT DEVELOPERS MADE THE CHANGES ON THERE OWN.

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3547

4/07/13 6:22:09 AM#227
Originally posted by delete5230

I agree with the OP in many ways.  Community was #1, now its last.

What I don't agree is that its because of the players choice.  Now that is what everyone thinks so I understand where the OP gets this from.  BUT DEVELOPERS MADE THE CHANGES ON THERE OWN.

This is a bizzare statement that is trying to re-write history.

Name one game that financially benefited from having a 'community #1' mentality and why they no longer do now.

The majority just doesn't care about 'community' in an online video game. That's what the market said for the past 7 years, whether you like that fact or not is irrelevent.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19544

4/07/13 1:09:21 PM#228
Originally posted by Scot

Come on we have had all these arguments before, if an industry is still making money that does not mean the newer product is better. You can have an inferior product, which you sell to more people and make lots of money. That's where MMO's are rigjht now.

 

Well more people are buying the product .. they must like it better .. so "better" for them.

If you don't like the product, it does not mean that it is inferior.

To me, modern MMOs are much better games. And i don't think my preference is any less valid than yours. And i vote with my feet & wallet.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19544

4/07/13 1:10:13 PM#229
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by delete5230

I agree with the OP in many ways.  Community was #1, now its last.

What I don't agree is that its because of the players choice.  Now that is what everyone thinks so I understand where the OP gets this from.  BUT DEVELOPERS MADE THE CHANGES ON THERE OWN.

This is a bizzare statement that is trying to re-write history.

Name one game that financially benefited from having a 'community #1' mentality and why they no longer do now.

The majority just doesn't care about 'community' in an online video game. That's what the market said for the past 7 years, whether you like that fact or not is irrelevent.

Yeah .. it is not hard to understand. I play games to have fun .. not to make friends. That may be a by-product .. but it is not that important.

Give me a good game first.

  Squeak69

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 960

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

4/07/13 1:21:16 PM#230
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Scot

Come on we have had all these arguments before, if an industry is still making money that does not mean the newer product is better. You can have an inferior product, which you sell to more people and make lots of money. That's where MMO's are rigjht now.

 

Well more people are buying the product .. they must like it better .. so "better" for them.

If you don't like the product, it does not mean that it is inferior.

To me, modern MMOs are much better games. And i don't think my preference is any less valid than yours. And i vote with my feet & wallet.

yes more people buy them but then there are more people that actully play games now that the generation raised on them has grown up, it is not as much that MMOsa are better but that it is no longer a niche market like it used to be and because of this its been flooded.

you know cars are bought in more numbers now then ever before but the quality is not as good, they may hve more bells and whistles but the are still not made as well as they used to be. its the same thing.

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19544

4/07/13 1:24:31 PM#231
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Scot

Come on we have had all these arguments before, if an industry is still making money that does not mean the newer product is better. You can have an inferior product, which you sell to more people and make lots of money. That's where MMO's are rigjht now.

 

Well more people are buying the product .. they must like it better .. so "better" for them.

If you don't like the product, it does not mean that it is inferior.

To me, modern MMOs are much better games. And i don't think my preference is any less valid than yours. And i vote with my feet & wallet.

yes more people buy them but then there are more people that actully play games now that the generation raised on them has grown up, it is not as much that MMOsa are better but that it is no longer a niche market like it used to be and because of this its been flooded.

you know cars are bought in more numbers now then ever before but the quality is not as good, they may hve more bells and whistles but the are still not made as well as they used to be. its the same thing.

Cars ARE better now. Safer, more bells and whistles, better MPG.

Do you want a new Civic or a model T?

And better are subjective for entertainment prodcuts. MMOs are better for me now than in EQ & UO time. Don't tell me you know my preference better than me. And people obviously like modern MMOs than classical ones ... all of them still exist for comparison.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5233

4/08/13 3:55:54 AM#232

If you want a good analogy of MMO's selling more but getting worse, there is our old favourite fast food. I know you modern MMO apologists love that one! :)

As for your model T, nice choice, what about a Rolls Royce Silver Shadow? How does that compare to modern cars? I will give you that modern cars are safer, as are modern MMO’s. That was a link to the thread on how we have no danger in modern MMO’s in case I was being too obtuse. Less danger in a car is good, but less danger in a game?

Here is another, mass produced goods. That’s what all these analogies boil down to. There is a reason why antiques cost so much, the quality is so much better. You may not like that old style, but it took a lot more craftsmanship than that flat pack you put up at home. But if you want to sit in your minimalist home, on a stool that passes for a chair and tell us that making games for the lowest common denominator to sell as many boxes as possible is going to result in better gaming quality, then do carry on.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3296

4/08/13 4:34:13 AM#233
lol great analogy :)  You can expand that even further, when the antique chair is in need of repair it is lovingly restored with no expense spaired, the primary goal is to return the item to its original glory.  with our modern piece of furniture (i will call it my wow chair), we fix it by repainting it green because thats this years favourite colour and screwing on a cheap plastic cup holder because people who like cup holders want it and so on and so forth - hey now more people want the chair, it must be better!

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  Kingmob23

Novice Member

Joined: 6/11/12
Posts: 77

4/08/13 5:46:03 AM#234
Been playing the gener since 1999 starting with eq and then ac when it first came out. I'm fine with where the gener is today a lot more polished gameplay. I tried reto gaming eq a couple of years back and I couldn't believe I ever liked that shit.

As far as the social aspect goes you get out what you put in. I know a lot of people who still go into these games with a social mindset and bond and make new friends all the time.

I think a lot of these people complaining about a lack of sociability are players who got older and now have less time for that aspect of the gameplay, because its still there if you really want it. Plenty of people that hop on to spend the whole day chatting with people.
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19544

4/08/13 10:25:57 AM#235
Originally posted by Scot

 

As for your model T, nice choice, what about a Rolls Royce Silver Shadow? How does that compare to modern cars? I will give you that modern cars are safer, as are modern MMO’s. That was a link to the thread on how we have no danger in modern MMO’s in case I was being too obtuse. Less danger in a car is good, but less danger in a game?

 

How much does the Rolls Royce cost? All new games are more or less the same cost. Is it the same for car? Or even food?

If McDonald costs $50 a burger, you think it will be that popular?

Less danger in a game? I die probably more often in D3 than in EQ.

  UnleadedRev

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/07/10
Posts: 317

4/08/13 10:31:35 AM#236

I agree with the OP 100%.

Its amazing how much we did back in 1999 with a sub par game by todays standards like EQ.

Yet, each new MMO is now worse than the one before it.

Fear the Alien, the Psyker, the Heretic, the moronic Steam Moderator.

  TheJoda

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/10
Posts: 492

"Yes...... that's a Duck Staff of D00M!!!"

4/08/13 10:39:40 AM#237
Valid points made, but was it the Germans that caused WW2 or their leader???  The needs to be made good MMO's in order for us to play them, that I the issue I believe.  Not MMO's dying or losing in intrest.

....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  Snakex

Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/08
Posts: 249

Unfortunately, killing is just one of those things that gets easier the more you do it.

4/08/13 10:47:40 AM#238

"MMO are Dying"

Then Revive it:

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/divergence-online

OP i agree with you whole heartedly. Just yesterday in my guild mumble i talked about MMO's arent MMO's any more.

WoW is no longer a Successful MMO, but a successful Game. Sadly it is the mass's that are pushing this.

While MMO's use to be a Niche group, and companies didnt really have the temptation to try to appeal to the mass's, now they do, and they have forgot about the loyal true MMO'ers of this world and try to cater to the new generation that has mirgrated over to MMO"s from where ever they came from.

Hence i have now put my gaming future into those of the Indie companies. Like:

Divergence and Darkfall.

In Reality SWTOR runned by who it was runned by should have never failed, but its the exact opposite, Companies will not take a chance so they just reskin and change the flavor thats it. All because it is runned by big corps.

  DavisFlight

Elite Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2530

4/08/13 10:53:01 AM#239
Originally posted by JimmyYO
Originally posted by CalmOceans

Well that's my conclusion after thinking about it.

While MMO do well and sell well, they are not really MMO anymore, they're all small scale dungeon instancers (LoL, Vindictus), solo quest grinders (WoW SWOTOR), , or glorified action Hack & Slash multiplayer games (Tera, GW2).

I haven't seen a game with a true community where the primary focus was the world and human interaction and the gameplay came second in MMO in a number of years. Now the gameplay is frist and if it isn't too much trouble maybe you'll be interacting with someone too, and if no ones interacts, join an artificial bubble called a guild and interact in the bubble.

 

Most people don't need MMO to interact online, there are plenty of chat opportunities, facebook, twitter, disqus, liveFire, forums, email, messengers, smartphones, youtube. You have all these ways to interact with people you want, there is way too much noise to make a world where people will be truly immersed and willing to spend time with each other in a game outside of gameplay.

There's no need for it anymore, there are thousands of other and arguably better ways to interact online.

I think the term MMO lives on even though the games are now becomes multiplayer action games, but the idea behind MMO is long gone I think, it's replaced by other communities online that are far easier and more effective way to interact.

Agreed, classic EQ1 was the last MMO I played. if other players don't matter neither does the game.

People also don't need MMOs to group with 2-3 people and go through instanced scripted dungeons, but here we are.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19544

4/08/13 11:23:19 AM#240
Originally posted by DavisFlight
 

People also don't need MMOs to group with 2-3 people and go through instanced scripted dungeons, but here we are.

But MMO devs want that audience. Why else do you think MMO would be so popular?

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