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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » actions have consequences

9 posts found
  Conquestor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/15/13
Posts: 15

 
OP  4/08/13 12:33:20 AM#1

 

I know some DAOC'ers looked down at the battlegrounds, but for me and my friends we spent a great deal of time there. One of the things MJ has said which makes me think back is that "actions have consequences" or something to that affect.

One thing that I think hurt DAOC, and really hurt the healing classes was when they allowed people to rez back at the portal keep.

In the past, when you died in the BG's (alone) it meant getting a horse and riding all the way back up to DL, getting on a pad, putting on a necklace and waiting for glasny to port you. People didn't want to die, or solo because if you died out there alone you weren't going to get a rez. If you were a solo player, many people thought of you as selfish and wouldn't bother coming to rez you (especially if you died over and over on a suicide mission). You were going to have to release and spend 10 -15 minutes getting back. People also communicated in chat much more (Hey Glasny is on the pad, hey I died here can someone come rez me, they are camping my body) etc.  While I am not in favor of spending 10 or 15 minutes to get back to play, I do think that really hurt the healing classes, and their demand.  People used to be forced to group up out of necessity because it meant surviving longer, and having someone watch your back. When they took away the consequences, groups fell apart, healers weren't wanted as much and when groups fell apart, keep sieges diminished as well. Keep siges diminished, the fun diminished as well.

 

  Sornin

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/07
Posts: 1138

Too weird to live, and too rare to die

4/08/13 12:40:18 AM#2
Originally posted by Conquestor

 

I know some DAOC'ers looked down at the battlegrounds, but for me and my friends we spent a great deal of time there. One of the things MJ has said which makes me think back is that "actions have consequences" or something to that affect.

One thing that I think hurt DAOC, and really hurt the healing classes was when they allowed people to rez back at the portal keep.

In the past, when you died in the BG's (alone) it meant getting a horse and riding all the way back up to DL, getting on a pad, putting on a necklace and waiting for glasny to port you. People didn't want to die, or solo because if you died out there alone you weren't going to get a rez. If you were a solo player, many people thought of you as selfish and wouldn't bother coming to rez you (especially if you died over and over on a suicide mission). You were going to have to release and spend 10 -15 minutes getting back. People also communicated in chat much more (Hey Glasny is on the pad, hey I died here can someone come rez me, they are camping my body) etc.  While I am not in favor of spending 10 or 15 minutes to get back to play, I do think that really hurt the healing classes, and their demand.  People used to be forced to group up out of necessity because it meant surviving longer, and having someone watch your back. When they took away the consequences, groups fell apart, healers weren't wanted as much and when groups fell apart, keep sieges diminished as well. Keep siges diminished, the fun diminished as well.

This is a good point, and I think it is something Mark realizes, too. He has mentioned how there is not going to be fast travel and that dying will mean something. The key will be balancing how long it takes to get back into combat to something reasonable. You need to balance fun and consequence; no one wants to spend 15+ minutes waiting to have fun again, but on the other end, if you respawn like nothing happened, you risk nothing and thus have no sense of loss or gain, which is important to fun, too.

Punitive consequences can often result in some pretty good outcomes, done right. Hopefully the 1+ years of testing the game will get if (when?!) funded will iron that out!

  JoeShmoe75

Novice Member

Joined: 4/02/13
Posts: 20

4/08/13 1:57:23 AM#3

While I agree that there should be consequences, I would like to see BG's somewhat free of the big ones. BG's have become more of the 'I've got a bit of time, lets get some quick action.' You dont wanna punish those people looking for pvp, but have limited time frames. So deffinitely no running back and forth like we used to.

Like you said, you dont want to force people to do certain things either. Its very hard to come up with a balanced solution for some of these problems.

Now when it comes to main rvr I'm all for penalties.

  MikeJezZ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 1205

Only in death, does duty end.

4/08/13 3:05:05 AM#4

I can see the idea with "punishing"

 

But if I can quick play for an hour, I won't want to only be able to play for 30 minutes because of punishment.

 

There got to be another way. If I am outgeared, walking in a group, and get one shotted, I do not want to wait 15 minutes before I can join the fight again.

 

Make a debuff for being weaker, like ress sickness. That last long.

 

Then you can still be a meatshield and of use.

Playing ATM: Elder Scrolls Online, Diablo 3
MMO's shelted: Check my mmorpg profile
KICKSTARTED: Camelot Unchained. (250 USD)

  evil13

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/06
Posts: 359

4/08/13 3:11:45 AM#5

Joe, there won't be wow type BGs, at most there might be daoc style (a persistant map, one per level range, no population caps) for lower levels, of course the game has no levels so I suppose lower power. And even that is at most, seeing how the world is going to be all out rvr they might not even make such BGs for low lvls.

So the whole "I have some time let me get soem pvp fix" won't even be possible. Well, not through bgs anyway.

 

As for the topic, there is a balance between needing to ride a horse to border keep, and then needing to port, being able to bind at the border keep and just needing to port, and being able to bind/release to the portal keep.

Since BGs in daoc were faily small, being able to release to portal keep cut down on downtime a lot and made for much more frequest action (nothing close to wow's respawn before you can even heal to full mind you) but for the big boy rvr it didn't do much, except when PKs got comaped which was rare. By the time rez sickness went away, and everyone buffed up, you were looking at almost 10min, add the time needed to find a fight...

 

I don't think being able to release to portal keep did anything bad for the game. It still had consequences since by dieing you were removed from the fight, for a while (almost under no scenario could you get back before the fight was over, even large zerg fights) and having to spend almost 20 min between riding, porting and buffing only to get owned by a gank group wasn't fun.

  MikeJezZ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 1205

Only in death, does duty end.

4/08/13 3:18:05 AM#6
Originally posted by evil13

Joe, there won't be wow type BGs, at most there might be daoc style (a persistant map, one per level range, no population caps) for lower levels, of course the game has no levels so I suppose lower power. And even that is at most, seeing how the world is going to be all out rvr they might not even make such BGs for low lvls.

So the whole "I have some time let me get soem pvp fix" won't even be possible. Well, not through bgs anyway.

 

As for the topic, there is a balance between needing to ride a horse to border keep, and then needing to port, being able to bind at the border keep and just needing to port, and being able to bind/release to the portal keep.

Since BGs in daoc were faily small, being able to release to portal keep cut down on downtime a lot and made for much more frequest action (nothing close to wow's respawn before you can even heal to full mind you) but for the big boy rvr it didn't do much, except when PKs got comaped which was rare. By the time rez sickness went away, and everyone buffed up, you were looking at almost 10min, add the time needed to find a fight...

 

I don't think being able to release to portal keep did anything bad for the game. It still had consequences since by dieing you were removed from the fight, for a while (almost under no scenario could you get back before the fight was over, even large zerg fights) and having to spend almost 20 min between riding, porting and buffing only to get owned by a gank group wasn't fun.

It is not fun to only have one life per fight and then wait for the next.

Playing ATM: Elder Scrolls Online, Diablo 3
MMO's shelted: Check my mmorpg profile
KICKSTARTED: Camelot Unchained. (250 USD)

  meddyck

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1136

4/08/13 5:41:33 AM#7

I'm not sure what game the OP is talking about. Healers were always wanted in groups in DAOC up to the point I quit it in a couple of years ago. That didn't change in NF just because of the lack of the portal ceremony. (BTW the ceremony was changed even before NF to where Master Visur etc. just stood on the pad and you could click to get him to port you.) I'd rather have something like NF's porting in CU than OF's standing around waiting, discovering you forgot your necklace, and waiting some more. Waiting is boring.

Camelot Unchained Backer
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  Daizedd

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/13
Posts: 143

4/08/13 7:05:23 AM#8
How about some kinda post-death mini-game while you wait? :)

  naezgul

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 389

4/08/13 8:53:38 AM#9
Almost all areas are RvR areas