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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Name one game successfully funded by Kickstarter AND released

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127 posts found
  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2595

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

 
OP  4/06/13 10:01:34 PM#21
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by Aerowyn
look at when kickstarter opened up.. then think about how long an average game takes to make

But wouldn't that time get cut down seeing that a lot of those investor set deadlines would not be hindering nor pressuring the development team?

regardless a MMO or RPG takes years to make.. it will speed things along but say an average MMO takes 4-5 years as they do.. so you are now down to 2-3 years. Like I said most all the big projects only got funded in the past year or so.. kickstarter has only been around for a couple years and only got popular in the past year.. need to give it time before you can claim kickstarter is not producing quality games.

Tomb Raider is hardly a mmo or a rpg. But I do get what you're saying. It will take some time to see some of the more robust projects come to fruition. I just think when they do, it won't be any different than me sloshing through the crapping games now to find a real gem.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2595

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

 
OP  4/06/13 10:04:04 PM#22
Originally posted by ImmortalWatcher
Originally posted by Ramonski7
....the new Tomb Raider that was released. Cause that was a damn good game that I didn't have to pay a dime for (it came free with the purchase of a new video card along with Bioshock: Infinite).

ya that coke i got from mcdonalds was good too. I didn't pay a dime for it either it came with the bundle that I purchased with my burger and fries.

Well for me it was free because I didn't even know it did until I got the email from Amazon and Steam. I was upgrading my card to play FFXIV: ARR when it's released. So yeah for me, I didn't pay a dime.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4508

4/06/13 10:11:54 PM#23
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Magnum2103
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by Aerowyn
look at when kickstarter opened up.. then think about how long an average game takes to make

But wouldn't that time get cut down seeing that a lot of those investor set deadlines would not be hindering nor pressuring the development team?

No, the opposite actually.  Since developers do not have to adhere to strict deadlines and release games in "unfinished" states releasing via Kickstarter and not a publisher should increase the development time.  It becomes problematic though because a lot of developers are very poor at setting deadlines for themselves and knowing when to just release it and not get caught in feature creep / development hell.

That's pretty much what I was going to say.

Becuase there aren't "producer" set deadlins they can take longer to finish their projects.

And I agree with the last part, they need to be good at project managment.

This ^.

It's especially bad when a project is a pashion project, which isn't uncommon for kickstarters. Designers are notorious bad at finishing stuff in a timely manner, because the good ones always want to add more, tweak / refine, or test out a new idea. This is where producers basically come in to make sure projects are running on schedule.

That said, kickstarters do have deadlines of a sort, and there are penalties for skipping deadlines. Contrary to what a lot of people think, kickstarters aren't a charity, it's crowd sourcing. However, if you just take the money and run there are penalties. Unfortunately such a situation hasn't actually happened yet (last I checked), so no one can say for sure how that will turn out.

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2595

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

 
OP  4/06/13 10:13:50 PM#24
Originally posted by Magnum2103
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by topographic
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/11/28/the-kickstarter-successes-where-are-they-now/

Yeah that's quite sad. And those aren't even Tomb Raider quality games... I do have FTL though. And I love it. Hardly the end-all be-all of investor/developer relationships though. But he did get 200k for a game that I don't think cost him nearly that much to make.

Consider a few things first:

1.  Tomb Raider while it did well in sales actually did poorer than expected for Square Enix and they recently had massive layoffs on the Western division that makes those games.  Lots of articles about this whole debacle, but here is one:  http://www.develop-online.net/news/43647/Rising-dev-costs-concern-as-36m-Tomb-Raider-sales-are-not-enough

2.  Tomb Raider cost millions (possibly close to the 100 million range) to develop where the most successful Kickstarters only receive a few million at most.

3.  Kickstarter is still in it's infancy and game development takes a long time.  Most game projects from the announcement of their Kickstarter take over two years to complete.

4.  Companies who use Kickstarter typically don't have the massive staff required to produce games quickly and they tend to spend more time on development as a whole.

5.  Tomb Raider costs $50, while successful Kickstarter games are usually priced below $20.

6.  Comparing the best indie games to AAA games is a bit absurd to begin with.

And that's my point. People here will be expecting AAA games to comedown the piplines. Especially when some of these KS projects cross the 1 million dollar threshold. Like:

  • Double Fine Adventure
  • Wasteland 2
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Planetary Annihilation
  • Project Eternity
  • Torment: Tides of Numenera
And many others.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

4/06/13 10:15:08 PM#25
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by Aerowyn
look at when kickstarter opened up.. then think about how long an average game takes to make

But wouldn't that time get cut down seeing that a lot of those investor set deadlines would not be hindering nor pressuring the development team?

regardless a MMO or RPG takes years to make.. it will speed things along but say an average MMO takes 4-5 years as they do.. so you are now down to 2-3 years. Like I said most all the big projects only got funded in the past year or so.. kickstarter has only been around for a couple years and only got popular in the past year.. need to give it time before you can claim kickstarter is not producing quality games.

Tomb Raider is hardly a mmo or a rpg. But I do get what you're saying. It will take some time to see some of the more robust projects come to fruition. I just think when they do, it won't be any different than me sloshing through the crapping games now to find a real gem.

i only mentioned mmo's or Rpgs because of the site we are talking on.. tomb raider was an amazing game btw.. by far best character representation in a video game ever imho loved how she reacted to the enviorment and everything... 

anyway also on what others saying it is true games could take a bit longer due to no constraints to get the product out at any set deadline.. but also I'm sure some publishers are much more involved than others and could possibly make things take longer.. but guess overall it does make more sense that games would be longer in development without them breathing deadlines down their necks...

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  severius

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/10/04
Posts: 1510

4/06/13 10:15:12 PM#26
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by Aerowyn
look at when kickstarter opened up.. then think about how long an average game takes to make

But wouldn't that time get cut down seeing that a lot of those investor set deadlines would not be hindering nor pressuring the development team?

Rarely have I heard of a publisher delaying a complete and ready to ship product.  Hell most developers are under such a tight deadline (partly of their own doing no doubt) that their games get huge day one patches.  Furthermore in what world does pressure and crunch time make someone work with less expedience, outside of a union?

  fanglo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/04
Posts: 279

4/06/13 10:16:25 PM#27

One of my favorite musicians Joy Electric used Kickstarter to release his latest Album Dwarf Mountian Alphabet. The CD was released and all the backers have recieved what they were promised. 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/146183208/joy-electric-dwarf-mountain-alphabet?ref=live

On the flip side, I also backed http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/chriscrockeralbum/chris-crockers-first-album Chris Crockers first album and he pretty much said he didn't get all the money and the album won't ship. So he pretty much took everyone's money and is not giving them what his KS funded for. Which is sad.

Also, someone wrote to him: 

 

"Christian van Laar on March 13

I dont understand why these fake donations have to be published here on this way. 
For example, I did made a succesful donation of 5 dollars and never received the promised twitter reply. 
Don't misunderstand me, it's not about that reply .... I am still happy that I could support you with a little amount, but it's the principle when you complain about fake donations, I complain about not keeping promises. It cuts both ways ;) Wish you good luck for the future !!"

Now I only pledged $10 to him and didn't select anything because frankly I'm a fan I didn't want anything he had to offer, I was just happy to help out, but he isn't fullfilling the promises he made on Kickstarter to the other people that actually wanted something. Even something as small as a thank you on Twitter.

 

I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!

  taus01

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 1419

4/06/13 10:18:49 PM#28

You are too early my friend. The inevitable fallout and major crisis for Kickstarter has yet to come when all those long term, high funding games are about to "expire". Most of that will happen between end of 2013 and 2014, some as late as 2015.

Right now we are still in happy funding land and not a cloud on the horizon.

The Ouya might actually be the one Project that is going to start the fallout as i still believe strongly its dead on arrival. Not that it will not ship or play some shitty games, just that people realize that it's completely underpowered and useless for anything but playing angry birds and solitair. (flame away)

PS: Giana Sisters is an amazing jump and run and easily a AAA quality game in it's genre.I am a proud backer and got my game extremely fast.

 

"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

  Fearum

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1055

4/06/13 10:23:09 PM#29
I only have backed 2 things that looked interesting so far to me, SotA and CU. So I won't know how that turns out for awhile. Not really a fan of card games so didnt back pathfinder. Really havent seen anything that grabbed me other than those two. Only time will tell.
  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2595

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

 
OP  4/06/13 10:27:44 PM#30
Originally posted by severius
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by Aerowyn
look at when kickstarter opened up.. then think about how long an average game takes to make

But wouldn't that time get cut down seeing that a lot of those investor set deadlines would not be hindering nor pressuring the development team?

Rarely have I heard of a publisher delaying a complete and ready to ship product.  Hell most developers are under such a tight deadline (partly of their own doing no doubt) that their games get huge day one patches.  Furthermore in what world does pressure and crunch time make someone work with less expedience, outside of a union?

Yeah I stand corrected on that point. I should have clarified myself a little better. I was thinking more in terms of waiting for funding, various departments that may slow down progress and a lot of the corporate shenanigans associated with big company game projects. But now that I think about it all of those things may result in a project keeping on it's deadlines.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  AIMonster

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 1981

4/06/13 10:29:40 PM#31
Originally posted by Ramonski7

And that's my point. People here will be expecting AAA games to comedown the piplines. Especially when some of these KS projects cross the 1 million dollar threshold. Like:

  • Double Fine Adventure
  • Wasteland 2
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Planetary Annihilation
  • Project Eternity
  • Torment: Tides of Numenera
And many others.

But, many AAA games are poor quality to some people.  I personally don't think many Activision franchises like CoD for example improves much each year.  Same goes for EA franchises like Madden.  On the other hand I can spend hundreds of hours on some indie games.  I fully expect all 7 of those projects you mention to be better (for me) than most AAA games on the market.  I just don't expect them to feature things that usually go on a AAA budget like top of the line graphics and complete full fledged voice acting.

I personally think the average Kickstarter backer doesn't expect anything beyond delivery of a product and what's promised in the Kickstarter.  They probably shouldn't expect that either, as many Kickstarter projects fall through.

Also there have been many instances where Kickstarter projects were successfully funded and did not deliver, often on the manufacturing end, so not so much with games.  Someone here mentioned you are protected, but you aren't.  There is nothing you can do if a project you back fails to get funded short of filing a class action lawsuit that probably won't wind up working anyway as Kickstarter clearly states that it simply provides a means of funding and not an obligation to backers.

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

4/06/13 11:25:05 PM#32

SolForge is moving right along with a Steam release this weekend (previously I had to borrow an iPad from someone to play). It's a fantastic game making good progress, and quite fun.

Defense Grid 2 reached their "make DG1:Containment" tier, and that has released and was fun.

Castle Story is the only one which has only given me a playable prototype and is furthest from a true game release, but I also invested the least into it because they seemed like the developer most prone to those sorts of issues.

So of the ones I've personally invested in, they're all on track and have delivered precisely against my expectations.  (And that's not counting my friend's successful electronica CD release which I also received.)

  waynejr2

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3663

RIP City of Heroes!

4/06/13 11:32:00 PM#33
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by Aerowyn
look at when kickstarter opened up.. then think about how long an average game takes to make

But wouldn't that time get cut down seeing that a lot of those investor set deadlines would not be hindering nor pressuring the development team?

 What?

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4508

4/06/13 11:55:19 PM#34
Originally posted by Ramonski7

And that's my point. People here will be expecting AAA games to comedown the piplines. Especially when some of these KS projects cross the 1 million dollar threshold. Like:

  • Double Fine Adventure
  • Wasteland 2
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Planetary Annihilation
  • Project Eternity
  • Torment: Tides of Numenera
And many others.

To be fair, anyone expecting AAA quality games on a 1 million $ budget (or less) needs a giant wakeup call, and probably deserves to be dissapointed.

It's good to expect quality games; but you need to ground that in reality if you want your opinion to hold any weight whatsoever.

  Four0Six

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/18/11
Posts: 1025

4/07/13 12:11:43 AM#35
Originally posted by fanglo

One of my favorite musicians Joy Electric used Kickstarter to release his latest Album Dwarf Mountian Alphabet. The CD was released and all the backers have recieved what they were promised. 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/146183208/joy-electric-dwarf-mountain-alphabet?ref=live

On the flip side, I also backed http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/chriscrockeralbum/chris-crockers-first-album Chris Crockers first album and he pretty much said he didn't get all the money and the album won't ship. So he pretty much took everyone's money and is not giving them what his KS funded for. Which is sad.

Also, someone wrote to him: 

 

"Christian van Laar on March 13

I dont understand why these fake donations have to be published here on this way. 
For example, I did made a succesful donation of 5 dollars and never received the promised twitter reply. 
Don't misunderstand me, it's not about that reply .... I am still happy that I could support you with a little amount, but it's the principle when you complain about fake donations, I complain about not keeping promises. It cuts both ways ;) Wish you good luck for the future !!"

Now I only pledged $10 to him and didn't select anything because frankly I'm a fan I didn't want anything he had to offer, I was just happy to help out, but he isn't fullfilling the promises he made on Kickstarter to the other people that actually wanted something. Even something as small as a thank you on Twitter.

 

You may have stumbled onto the KS truth. I suspect your "Favorite musician", already had an ablum written and just needed cash for production. This is what I think KS is for. An indie artist with a written album but no production cash. I do not think it is gong to pan out for taking an idea, (IE: a MMORPG) from, "idea" state to shipped boxes. I have also seem some realitive success in the tabletop miniature sector. Smallish companies that can get over the iniatial launch costs, like printing thousands of books and casitng the iniatial run. The jury is out still though because there has been voiced concern that by using crowdsourcing, you potentialy put your product in all the hands you would have sold to, through the various perks...Meh who knows.

  jpnole

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/13/10
Posts: 1647

4/07/13 12:14:54 AM#36
Originally posted by Axehilt

SolForge is moving right along with a Steam release this weekend (previously I had to borrow an iPad from someone to play). It's a fantastic game making good progress, and quite fun.

Defense Grid 2 reached their "make DG1:Containment" tier, and that has released and was fun.

Castle Story is the only one which has only given me a playable prototype and is furthest from a true game release, but I also invested the least into it because they seemed like the developer most prone to those sorts of issues.

So of the ones I've personally invested in, they're all on track and have delivered precisely against my expectations.  (And that's not counting my friend's successful electronica CD release which I also received.)

You sure about that? I don't see it mentioned anywhere on Steam and it's not in the store for preorder. The main site says that the PC beta is live as of April 4th. Perhaps you meant the PC beta is this weekend and not the Steam release? Seems like a cool game. I enjoyed Magic 2013.

  Xthos

Elite Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2565

4/07/13 1:05:52 AM#37
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Ramonski7

And that's my point. People here will be expecting AAA games to comedown the piplines. Especially when some of these KS projects cross the 1 million dollar threshold. Like:

  • Double Fine Adventure
  • Wasteland 2
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Planetary Annihilation
  • Project Eternity
  • Torment: Tides of Numenera
And many others.

To be fair, anyone expecting AAA quality games on a 1 million $ budget (or less) needs a giant wakeup call, and probably deserves to be dissapointed.

It's good to expect quality games; but you need to ground that in reality if you want your opinion to hold any weight whatsoever.

Exactly, if a AAA game cost less than a million to make, people wouldn't be spending the 30-300 million they do now.  Everything would be a AAA if this was the case.  Gotta have proper expectations, and even go in accepting that it could fail imo. 

  Adamai

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/10
Posts: 457

4/07/13 3:49:39 AM#38
kickstarter has not been around long enough to have even come close tofinishing an mmo... onky mmo i know that was created in a year was sto and thats so incrediblt shit irs barely wirth mentioning
  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

4/07/13 5:08:39 AM#39
Originally posted by jpnole
Originally posted by Axehilt

SolForge is moving right along with a Steam release this weekend (previously I had to borrow an iPad from someone to play). It's a fantastic game making good progress, and quite fun.

You sure about that? I don't see it mentioned anywhere on Steam and it's not in the store for preorder. The main site says that the PC beta is live as of April 4th. Perhaps you meant the PC beta is this weekend and not the Steam release? Seems like a cool game. I enjoyed Magic 2013.

Sure, I guess you can say a beta release to Kickstarter backers isn't a "release".

  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 5749

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

4/07/13 5:48:10 AM#40
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by Magnum2103
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by Aerowyn
look at when kickstarter opened up.. then think about how long an average game takes to make

But wouldn't that time get cut down seeing that a lot of those investor set deadlines would not be hindering nor pressuring the development team?

No, the opposite actually.  Since developers do not have to adhere to strict deadlines and release games in "unfinished" states releasing via Kickstarter and not a publisher should increase the development time.  It becomes problematic though because a lot of developers are very poor at setting deadlines for themselves and knowing when to just release it and not get caught in feature creep / development hell.

So because they are under less pressure, they could feasibly take longer than the traditional way games are made...that makes me feel better.

Not alway's, think of this instead of concentrating on a few things, the more time you have the more time you can think of something new, this something new might be awesome but at the same time it might take another re-write of allot of different things to make the new work. There needs to be a certain pressure to achieve something.

OP: Ask the same question in about 3 too 5 years from now, Kickstarter is far to young to expect already great succeses, while their are some outside of games.  I feel it's more like a new generation indie platform and not necessary a mass target platform.

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