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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Update 9 Combat

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42 posts found
  skyexile

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 701

4/06/13 6:56:13 PM#21

"fluid like GW2?" i take it he never played the game then, the game has the most clunky combat iv ever experienced, i refuse to play melee in that game because of all the pausing and rubber banding with stuff like charge etc.

SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  Sxadana

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/01/07
Posts: 39

4/06/13 7:29:19 PM#22
I find most of these videos pretty intressting, but i wonder how much of these words and info that we get now , wil stil be correct once the game is launched
  Tasarak

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/04/09
Posts: 43

4/06/13 8:18:24 PM#23

Love what I'm hearing for combat MJ.    A few thing's I'd like to add:

1) I also want to see visual cue's for any stuns/mezs/roots/snares/mind control/slow/speed/poisons/diseases/magic/curses ... I don't want to be looking at a combat log. (very little) Everything should be clear on screen.

2)   It's not just the combat they choose, it's the way character moves, performs an action/spell & the feeling or responsiveness you get back as a player.

Combat & art direction go hand in hand. It is important that is also relates to the environment or world that it is designed for. Sound also effects a players overall experience when in combat.

3)  Animations - Must be fluid, responsive & provide feedback to the user as it relates to the actions being performed on screen. I should be able to tell what is going on screen by the spell or swing of a weapon, not looking down at combat log to see what hit me.

 

To me, these are all important to consider when choosing the right combat system.

  Stiler

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 599

4/06/13 8:50:11 PM#24

This update has me so excited.

I really hope archers can nock their arrows and take aima nd fire freely (wherever you point) accounting for arrow drop/distance and such. To me that is just so much more "fun" then the usual targetting style of mmo's when it comes to archers usually.

Also if archers have to aim in such a way, then the arrows they fire can be deadly/high dmg (because of hte nature, sinne you can't simply target/then fire at that target) it means it will naturally be harder to hit someone at a longer distance , as well if they are moving.

So those times when you do get lucky, and hit soemone in the head while at a distnace and moving, it will be even that much more amazing if it works that way or similar style. 

 

That's what I love about playing an archer in Mount and Blade, when you have that knight charging at you full steam , knowing that you HAVE to make that one shot count and place the arrow in a vital area to dehorse/kill him otherwise you are dead, that's very exciting from a gameplay standpoint.

I know it might not even be like this, or archers might not make it in, but the prospect of it not relying on tab targetting for archery is exciting for now.

  SBE1

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/06
Posts: 339

4/06/13 8:50:20 PM#25

Well, I don't mind if archers use a rectile system, if other long range direct damage spells have the same issue.  The main problem with manual targeting is lag.  Works okay for small instances like FPS games, but if you start with a large # of players, lag issues would almost require tab targeting.

Could that be different in this game?  Maybe, but my guess is probably not.   

I can say that not having an archer class would seem odd.

  Fishu

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 12

4/06/13 10:10:09 PM#26
Having a moderate range on tab-target is more than enough to fix this. Plus with LOS. No problem. Reticule is a bad idea. Unless bow are extremely powerful or the PVP is really slow.
  grogstorm

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/07
Posts: 287

If it ain't broke, dont fix it!

4/07/13 12:08:29 AM#27

I think archers/casters should be similar to siege equipment for their aoe attacks and allowed tab targeting for specific targets/fast attacks.  In essence, one can follow a moving target (tab targeting) and try to hit them regardless if it’s a quick arrow (archer) or a magic missile (caster).   But when those classes decide they want to use a mass damage aoe skill they have to place to target area on the ground and fire at that area.  Also there should be auto targeting where you can just fire and whomever is closest in your line of sight get targeted (along with target ring under tgt).  Reticule targeting is more for a game that allows movement while firing and I believe CU will not allow that.

Grog

  Vanshoodie

Novice Member

Joined: 11/16/11
Posts: 35

4/07/13 10:13:40 AM#28
Originally posted by meddyck
Somebody explain to me what the difference is between an archer tab-target firing and a caster tab-target firing. I'm not getting why one class would need to use a reticle and the other wouldn't. Just don't make archer damage so powerful that they 1 or 2 shot people like in early DAOC. Then you can have archers play like other classes instead of trying to making them so cumbersome to play that nobody will want to. Reticle targetting in a mass RvR game is retarded. Every class needs to be able to target lock. This update just seems like pandering to people who drool over games like TERA.

This was my first reaction also. Maybe he was just singling out Archers as an example, I dunno. Are they suggesting towards a combat system similar to Neverwinter and other recent games in beta that can't be named where you basically face the mob to acquire target?

  Toodles

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/04
Posts: 75

4/07/13 10:19:42 AM#29

So archers get to play skill combat, and casters get to play rollface tabmode even though they have the exact same playstyles, only variable being projecticles vs magic.

 

One other person put it perfectly, Darkfall rendered magic as projectiles. This made it much more skill competent than faceroll.

 

If you don't want to add an archer class, then don't do it. Don't add some inferior product like this reticle archer while you let casters continue to faceroll target tab like they did in daoc. I can say that because I played a theurgist from release of aoc when the first pvp at 20-30 happened in lancelot in the MMG's in emain through SI where chain casting air nukes via tab target was just an absolute slaughter fest. Playing an archer is no different than playing a caster class, so trying to make this 'novel' change is lackluster.

  Odaman

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/13
Posts: 195

4/07/13 10:23:28 AM#30
I'll wait a bit before I say the sky is falling. Reticle targeting in a large scale fight.... does not sound appealing or even viable though.
  Rhoklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/12/04
Posts: 3036

$500 Backer to 2015's Top New MMO... The Repopulation!

4/07/13 10:45:09 AM#31

Just going to chime in here with some known facts about reticule aiming... that being aimbots. Any game I've played online that requires aiming generally attracts hackers and cheaters who use them. Just some example of MMOs or online games that required aiming to hit your target that are known to have cheaters using aimbots.

1) Darkfall

2) Planetside and Planetside 2

3) APB and APB: Reloaded

4) All Call of Duty series

5) All of Battlefield series

Basically any game thats played online that requires aiming, is guaranteed to attract hackers and cheaters. Doesn't mean everyone will cheat, but even 5 per server is enough to notice its annoyance and I'm pretty sure the games listed above have more than 5 people who cheat per server.

At this time, I am going to have to disagree with traditional aiming reticule for CU. Last thing I want is for this great game to be ripped to shreds with cheaters or the possibility of them in game simply for rumors sake for the legitimate aiming pro's being accused of such.

BAD BAD IDEA! Sorry...

  naezgul

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 389

4/07/13 10:58:23 AM#32
Originally posted by Toodles

So archers get to play skill combat, and casters get to play rollface tabmode even though they have the exact same playstyles, only variable being projecticles vs magic.

 

One other person put it perfectly, Darkfall rendered magic as projectiles. This made it much more skill competent than faceroll.

 

If you don't want to add an archer class, then don't do it. Don't add some inferior product like this reticle archer while you let casters continue to faceroll target tab like they did in daoc. I can say that because I played a theurgist from release of aoc when the first pvp at 20-30 happened in lancelot in the MMG's in emain through SI where chain casting air nukes via tab target was just an absolute slaughter fest. Playing an archer is no different than playing a caster class, so trying to make this 'novel' change is lackluster.

Without instants, cast able stuns, various CC , nearsighted 

  MikeJezZ

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 1199

Only in death, does duty end.

4/07/13 11:05:42 AM#33

I actually think many will get away from the game because of archers has to aim.

 

It want's to be a shooter. yet it still wants to key spam. So I have to aim with my mouse, and spam 1,2,3,45,6,6 etc.?

 

While mages can tab target, and warriors.

Playing ATM: Elder Scrolls Online, Diablo 3
MMO's shelted: Check my mmorpg profile
KICKSTARTED: Camelot Unchained. (250 USD)

  Exarchi

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/10
Posts: 17

4/07/13 11:31:48 AM#34

What about the League of Legends approach?

Where you can fire non-aimed shots for lower damage but more powerfull shots are skillshots that require aim/lead. Requiring understanding of projectile speed, experience and skill.

This would be the same for bolts/missiles on mages, and possibly any thrown weapons on melee classes.

Ranged AOE spells would take the GTAOE (daoc) type approach - like aoe spells in LoL - but it would obviously need to be much smoother and quicker than it was in DAOC.

  MarkJacobs

CEO City State Entertainment

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 405

4/07/13 12:49:39 PM#35
Originally posted by Exarchi

What about the League of Legends approach?

Where you can fire non-aimed shots for lower damage but more powerfull shots are skillshots that require aim/lead. Requiring understanding of projectile speed, experience and skill.

This would be the same for bolts/missiles on mages, and possibly any thrown weapons on melee classes.

Ranged AOE spells would take the GTAOE (daoc) type approach - like aoe spells in LoL - but it would obviously need to be much smoothers and quicker than it was in DAOC.

Hmm... :)

Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment

  naezgul

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 389

4/07/13 12:59:10 PM#36
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
Originally posted by Exarchi

What about the League of Legends approach?

Where you can fire non-aimed shots for lower damage but more powerfull shots are skillshots that require aim/lead. Requiring understanding of projectile speed, experience and skill.

This would be the same for bolts/missiles on mages, and possibly any thrown weapons on melee classes.

Ranged AOE spells would take the GTAOE (daoc) type approach - like aoe spells in LoL - but it would obviously need to be much smoothers and quicker than it was in DAOC.

Hmm... :)

I'm out in these cases...

isnt the point of an RPGs to be able to do things you can't in real life?

its a visual bridge from p&p RPGs 

whats the point of dumping all my stat points in dex if my eyes and clumsy fingers can't respond?

Isn't that another game genre made for?

  MarkJacobs

CEO City State Entertainment

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 405

4/07/13 1:06:42 PM#37
Originally posted by naezgul
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
Originally posted by Exarchi

What about the League of Legends approach?

Where you can fire non-aimed shots for lower damage but more powerfull shots are skillshots that require aim/lead. Requiring understanding of projectile speed, experience and skill.

This would be the same for bolts/missiles on mages, and possibly any thrown weapons on melee classes.

Ranged AOE spells would take the GTAOE (daoc) type approach - like aoe spells in LoL - but it would obviously need to be much smoothers and quicker than it was in DAOC.

Hmm... :)

I'm out in these cases...

isnt the point of an RPGs to be able to do things you can't in real life?

its a visual bridge from p&p RPGs 

whats the point of dumping all my stat points in dex if my eyes and clumsy fingers can't respond?

Isn't that another game genre made for?

That's why all of this is subject to debate and refinement. I'm not trying to make a twitch game however, I also want to experiment with some things I've seen in other games. I honestly believe we should be looking at different ways to make MMORPGs more fun for the RPG crowd. I've said the same thing about stealth, it's too easy to simply say "Do it the DAoC way" or "No way, no stealth!" instead of experimenting with different systems to see what works. That's one of the best things about the focus on fewer classes, no PvE leveling track, we will have the time to test different things.

Edit: I'm a core RPGer, not an action guy. :)

 

Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment

  naezgul

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 389

4/07/13 1:09:33 PM#38
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
Originally posted by naezgul
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
Originally posted by Exarchi

What about the League of Legends approach?

Where you can fire non-aimed shots for lower damage but more powerfull shots are skillshots that require aim/lead. Requiring understanding of projectile speed, experience and skill.

This would be the same for bolts/missiles on mages, and possibly any thrown weapons on melee classes.

Ranged AOE spells would take the GTAOE (daoc) type approach - like aoe spells in LoL - but it would obviously need to be much smoothers and quicker than it was in DAOC.

Hmm... :)

I'm out in these cases...

isnt the point of an RPGs to be able to do things you can't in real life?

its a visual bridge from p&p RPGs 

whats the point of dumping all my stat points in dex if my eyes and clumsy fingers can't respond?

Isn't that another game genre made for?

That's why all of this is subject to debate and refinement. I'm not trying to make a twitch game however, I also want to experiment with some things I've seen in other games. I honestly believe we should be looking at different ways to make MMORPGs more fun for the RPG crowd. I've said the same thing about stealth, it's too easy to simply say "Do it the DAoC way" or "No way, no stealth!" instead of experimenting with different systems to see what works. That's one of the best things about the focus on fewer classes, no PvE leveling track, we will have the time to test different things.

Edit: I'm a core RPGer, not an action guy. :)

 

I wish other people got this......so many are bashing you because nothing is concrete or specifics aren't laid out.

 

  MarkJacobs

CEO City State Entertainment

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 405

4/07/13 1:15:59 PM#39
Originally posted by naezgul
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
Originally posted by naezgul
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
Originally posted by Exarchi

What about the League of Legends approach?

Where you can fire non-aimed shots for lower damage but more powerfull shots are skillshots that require aim/lead. Requiring understanding of projectile speed, experience and skill.

This would be the same for bolts/missiles on mages, and possibly any thrown weapons on melee classes.

Ranged AOE spells would take the GTAOE (daoc) type approach - like aoe spells in LoL - but it would obviously need to be much smoothers and quicker than it was in DAOC.

Hmm... :)

I'm out in these cases...

isnt the point of an RPGs to be able to do things you can't in real life?

its a visual bridge from p&p RPGs 

whats the point of dumping all my stat points in dex if my eyes and clumsy fingers can't respond?

Isn't that another game genre made for?

That's why all of this is subject to debate and refinement. I'm not trying to make a twitch game however, I also want to experiment with some things I've seen in other games. I honestly believe we should be looking at different ways to make MMORPGs more fun for the RPG crowd. I've said the same thing about stealth, it's too easy to simply say "Do it the DAoC way" or "No way, no stealth!" instead of experimenting with different systems to see what works. That's one of the best things about the focus on fewer classes, no PvE leveling track, we will have the time to test different things.

Edit: I'm a core RPGer, not an action guy. :)

 

I wish other people got this......so many are bashing you because nothing is concrete or specifics aren't laid out.

 

Yeah. Most (not all) KS projects have less laid out then we have if you look at the Foundational Principles. Some have shiny demos but little specifics. Others have specifics but not so shiny demos. Anyone who claims that they have an MMO all laid out from the beginning and that *nothing* is ever going to change during development is either delusional, stupid or lying. Some points, absolutely but everything? I wasn't foolish enought to say that during WAR's development. :)

Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5550

4/07/13 1:23:18 PM#40
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
Originally posted by naezgul
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
Originally posted by naezgul
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
Originally posted by Exarchi

What about the League of Legends approach?

Where you can fire non-aimed shots for lower damage but more powerfull shots are skillshots that require aim/lead. Requiring understanding of projectile speed, experience and skill.

This would be the same for bolts/missiles on mages, and possibly any thrown weapons on melee classes.

Ranged AOE spells would take the GTAOE (daoc) type approach - like aoe spells in LoL - but it would obviously need to be much smoothers and quicker than it was in DAOC.

Hmm... :)

I'm out in these cases...

isnt the point of an RPGs to be able to do things you can't in real life?

its a visual bridge from p&p RPGs 

whats the point of dumping all my stat points in dex if my eyes and clumsy fingers can't respond?

Isn't that another game genre made for?

That's why all of this is subject to debate and refinement. I'm not trying to make a twitch game however, I also want to experiment with some things I've seen in other games. I honestly believe we should be looking at different ways to make MMORPGs more fun for the RPG crowd. I've said the same thing about stealth, it's too easy to simply say "Do it the DAoC way" or "No way, no stealth!" instead of experimenting with different systems to see what works. That's one of the best things about the focus on fewer classes, no PvE leveling track, we will have the time to test different things.

Edit: I'm a core RPGer, not an action guy. :)

 

I wish other people got this......so many are bashing you because nothing is concrete or specifics aren't laid out.

 

Yeah. Most (not all) KS projects have less laid out then we have if you look at the Foundational Principles. Some have shiny demos but little specifics. Others have specifics but not so shiny demos. Anyone who claims that they have an MMO all laid out from the beginning and that *nothing* is ever going to change during development is either delusional, stupid or lying. Some points, absolutely but everything? I wasn't foolish enought to say that during WAR's development. :)

I don't think anyone is saying *nothing* will change from the beginning of development to the end. But I think a lot of people feel like it really has been sparse on the specifics. Major systems that can be deal breakers for many aren't really discussed in any detail at all. Perhaps this is on purpose and perhaps not, but it would be nice to believe there was something more solid than the foundational principles at this point.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

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