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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Kickstarter / CU no funding (combined) topic

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107 posts found
  rdrpappy

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/04
Posts: 337

4/06/13 12:28:24 PM#61

This post is retarded, "kickstarter and how it will end pc gaming platform" are you even serious with that stupidity?

The responses defending the current practises are equally moronic. How is more or different ending anything number one, also every other post here is about "how teh WOW clones suxxors".

So themeparks are bad, sandboxes are bad, subscriptions are bad, pay to whatever models are bad, kickstarter is bad, any money changing hands is bad, 100% free charity made games are bad.

Seems to me game developers will see all the hasle involved with trying to please flakey new age gamers and decide making these games is bad.

Except for the garbage games, you will end up with tons of those until the mmorpg market is a wasteland of cheesy banner adds and reskined Korean data harvesters.

Enjoy

  Fearum

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1089

4/06/13 12:37:27 PM#62
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Fearum
Keep buying the big company reskinned horse crap they can't shovel out fast enough to feed the masses. Keep purchaseing from that cash shop to get the new shiney.

Will do, because I like the masses prefer good games with quality production quality and high value over games that couldn't get backed from real investors.

And they know people like you will keep buying whatever they put out even if they just tack on a higher number to the title so its a win win.

  teddyboy420

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/22/04
Posts: 390

Blessed are the forgetful: for they get the better even of their blunders - Friedrich Nietzsche

4/06/13 12:41:21 PM#63

Kickstarter has it's ups and downs, of course.

There WILL be less then scrupulous people that use KS for personal gain and profit at the expense of others, of course. That is human nature.

There WILL also be some true success stories coming out of KS that couldn't have been done otherwise. As others here have said, the way the industry works atm, it's the big-wig exec's that control what we play, KS gives us a chance to change all of that. Is there risk? Of course there is, and if you aren't willing to take a risk, then please, do not support a KS drive.

For me, personally, I am willing to give someone like Mark Jacobs fifty beans for the chance to have his game, that I REALLY would love to play, made. Being a FULLY INFORMED ADULT, that is my decision to make.

I can't see how KS, or any crowd-funding projects could possibly lead to demise of the PC as a gaming platform. People have been falsely ringing the death-knell of PC gaming for many years now. First the Sega Dreamcast, with it's online gaming (which, admitadly was far ahead of it's time) signaled the end of PC gaming. Then, the PS2 and (the original) Xbox Live w/ their advanced hardware, and online infrastructures DEFINITELY meant that no one would ever use a PC as a gaming platform again. Of course the 360 and PS3 followed, which were basically PC's custom built exclusively for gaming, w/ PC-like online capabilities, and AGAIN people tried to ring that bell. Now, w/ this KS/crowd-funding "craze", PC gaming is certainly going to die b/c the big "AAA" publishers would feel that KS funded games would take too big a piece of their pie...

I understand the concern for your platform of choice, but I don't see how KS/crowd-funding could pose any sort of threat to anyone. And, as gamers, KS/crowd-funding gives us the opportunity to let OUR voices be heard, and make sure that games that we would love to play, actually have a CHANCE of getting made. Yeah, you could get scammed, or the game could never materialize, or whatever, like I said, if you don't like taking risks, don't support a KSer drive. But, if there's a game you'd really like to play, that you know the big "AAA" publishers would never take a chance on, and you are fully informed of the risk, and willing to take it, please by all means go for it. 

Just look at the latest KS "success", a new Torment game! I loved Plaescape:Torment, but we all know that b/c it didn't make a mint for a publisher, we'd most likely never see a good Torment game again, but b/c of KS we will. I am hoping the same happens w/ Marc Jacobs new project...I've been hoping we'd get DAoC 2 for years. In fact, WAR should have been DAoC in a Warcraft skin (still say that would been a friggin awesome game if the devs didn't try to WoW-ify it), but since it wasn't, I'm backing CU.

You're fears are (somewhat) valid. But, just like everything else, it's a matter of risk vs reward, and can be a great opportunity to see games that, in the current state of gaming being controlled by "mega-publishers" like EA and Activision, just wouldn't be made otherwise. If there's a glut of money given to people that don't deliver what they say they will, then KS/crowd-funding will die-off. But even if that does happen, I don't see it ever taking PC gaming with it.

  vader999

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/06
Posts: 136

4/06/13 12:45:37 PM#64
I think the common gamer will now finally understand how the big bad publishers feel.  The reason they pull the plug in many cases is because the guy running the studio screwed up something bad with management of time and resources.  I guarantee this will happen with more than 1 kickstarter project, what then?  A few of you will continue to show faith and throw more money at them, but if enough of you don't you will be no better than the big bad publishers you hate.
  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5547

4/06/13 12:45:51 PM#65
Originally posted by Fearum
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Fearum
Keep buying the big company reskinned horse crap they can't shovel out fast enough to feed the masses. Keep purchaseing from that cash shop to get the new shiney.

Will do, because I like the masses prefer good games with quality production quality and high value over games that couldn't get backed from real investors.

And they know people like you will keep buying whatever they put out even if they just tack on a higher number to the title so its a win win.

I'll probably buy the Witcher 3 and enjoy it. I'm not sure what you are really saying anymore. Quality games often come from big publishers. Quality games also often come from indie-like developers. Are you trying to say that all games that are produced by big dev teams and publishers are bad?

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  JimmyYO

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/11
Posts: 541

4/06/13 12:53:10 PM#66

Are kickstarters complete nonsense taking advantage of desperate gamers? Of course.

Will they end PC gaming as we know it? wtf?

  Vannor

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2995

4/06/13 12:58:02 PM#67

I'm not a fan of kickstarter and what it's turning the industry into...

But right now, it seems people are up on this new craze. Yet.. they havn't havn't seen the fruit of thier loins yet.. and things might change once they do. Right now kickstarter if all about the 'if' but soon it will be all about the 'what' once some of the projects actually get finished. Then we'll know where kickstarter stands.

As for ruining PC gaming? I highly doubt it. With all the recent news about the next gen of consoles, PC gaming is seriously looking like the only gaming option where the majority of games arn't restricted in some way, be it online only DRM or dumbed down features due to lesser control schemes.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15527

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

4/06/13 1:00:04 PM#68
The way i look it is, the PC platform used to be home to unique games catering to specific audiences. You'll be hard pressed to find those unique games in this current market, as just about every title goes for one of two audiences, the hardcore or the casual (yet they seek the mass within both groups rarely the niches). I see kickstarter as a -possible- avenue that travels back to those unique games of the past.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  sk8chalif

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/18/10
Posts: 591

4/06/13 1:07:32 PM#69

i founded 1 game  ,its Chivalry medieval warfare

i did not make mistake for chivalry . the idea and concept was great  and turned out to be a succet. its the game i play the most right now and i love it. its so funny.

if i find another great idea and look promising i will fund again,

 

so far i had more fun in Indie game made by a small group of devoted people  that cost less money then

big company that  sell a game for 60$ and only have a couple of hours of fun ,

 


~The only opinion that matters is your own.Everything else is just advice,~

  Zeddakis

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/11/11
Posts: 82

4/06/13 1:15:18 PM#70
So I should just keep buying and supporting bad ports of console games that are limited by the out dated tech in the current gen of consoles that my gaming PC is many yers ahead of currently? I just wanted to understand the point of your post before I kick the soap box.

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3613

4/06/13 1:19:21 PM#71
Kickstarter wont affect PC gaming much, but smart phones and tablets could put a severe dent in it.....The experts are already calling Windows 8 a failure and how that could lead to a couple of the industries giants going out of business.
  Comaf

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1133

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

4/06/13 1:19:26 PM#72
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

Wooah yay players can fund the game they've always wanted.. or simply fund more disappointment from sales men that have a good sales pitch ?

 

THeir's a reason why something doe off, it is cause they suck and people didn't want to play the games. I've been looking over the kickstarter games list and I got to say that this is the end of the road for almost every genre on the pc platform. The pc platform was always about the future of the entire gaming genre with consoles playing catch. That is how it should always be, with the technologies we can put into gaming machines, a pc gamer should never be last to get the best.

 

But here we are, last at getting the best, and in our angst of wanted something, kickstarter comes along and all of a sudden it breathes life into games that we really don't need, want or even going to play even if they are released. I was super excited for kickstarter, but as time goes on the inevitable will happen :

 

Time line is missed for release

Game Never releases and developers skips town

The game is utter garbage cause jonny boy in his garage just wasn't up to the task

A big Publisher snatches the title that the community was told was going to be indie

big publishers funnel through kickstarter double dipping  by getting players to fund a development cycle, then selling the title back to then for 59.99.

 

I refuse to put money down on words, visions, theories or a cool graphic image. I don't care if you are lord British, Brad Mcquaid or Steven Spielberg. if the developer is serious about a game, he will find the proper funding for it, instead of the smoke and mirrors os kickstarter. With that said, almost every pc kickstarter program is for technology that is 4 to 5 years behind consoles. Simply unacceptable.

 

/off soap box

I get how this is theoretically (perhaps even innocently) meant to derail Mr. Jacob's recent KS project with Camelot Unchained.  However, this is a man with a solid resume' (Dark Age of Camelot)...he is also human, however (Warhammer), and has promised to meet and exceed the 2 million dollar minimum needed to get this project initially funded.  He would not commit career suicide by making false promises, and, considering the state of the mmorpg these days, there is no RPG in the last few mmo's (arguably) and with the rise of mediocre basic meal mmo's with the same same 5 class race combos, I dare say Camelot Unchained is a kickstarter worth investing in.

 

 

  Dren_Utogi

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1468

 
OP  4/06/13 2:17:34 PM#73
Originally posted by Comaf
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

Wooah yay players can fund the game they've always wanted.. or simply fund more disappointment from sales men that have a good sales pitch ?

 

THeir's a reason why something doe off, it is cause they suck and people didn't want to play the games. I've been looking over the kickstarter games list and I got to say that this is the end of the road for almost every genre on the pc platform. The pc platform was always about the future of the entire gaming genre with consoles playing catch. That is how it should always be, with the technologies we can put into gaming machines, a pc gamer should never be last to get the best.

 

But here we are, last at getting the best, and in our angst of wanted something, kickstarter comes along and all of a sudden it breathes life into games that we really don't need, want or even going to play even if they are released. I was super excited for kickstarter, but as time goes on the inevitable will happen :

 

Time line is missed for release

Game Never releases and developers skips town

The game is utter garbage cause jonny boy in his garage just wasn't up to the task

A big Publisher snatches the title that the community was told was going to be indie

big publishers funnel through kickstarter double dipping  by getting players to fund a development cycle, then selling the title back to then for 59.99.

 

I refuse to put money down on words, visions, theories or a cool graphic image. I don't care if you are lord British, Brad Mcquaid or Steven Spielberg. if the developer is serious about a game, he will find the proper funding for it, instead of the smoke and mirrors os kickstarter. With that said, almost every pc kickstarter program is for technology that is 4 to 5 years behind consoles. Simply unacceptable.

 

/off soap box

I get how this is theoretically (perhaps even innocently) meant to derail Mr. Jacob's recent KS project with Camelot Unchained.  However, this is a man with a solid resume' (Dark Age of Camelot)...he is also human, however (Warhammer), and has promised to meet and exceed the 2 million dollar minimum needed to get this project initially funded.  He would not commit career suicide by making false promises, and, considering the state of the mmorpg these days, there is no RPG in the last few mmo's (arguably) and with the rise of mediocre basic meal mmo's with the same same 5 class race combos, I dare say Camelot Unchained is a kickstarter worth investing in.

 

 

Excuse me, but there are hundreds of Kickstarter campaigns on the KS website. This is turning into a billion dollar rackateer website that no one knows where the money is actually going.

As far as CU, it is dead to me.

 

Anyone is annoyed with the big Cu KS image, right click it, select image properties and then select "block image in the lower left corner"

 

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  Beatnik59

Elite Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 2213

"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977."

4/06/13 2:31:29 PM#74

What is "a game?"  Is it what it is, or is it whatever the developer wants it to be on a given day?  Because if you are committed to the idea that what you pay for is what you should get, then the developments in the industry lately should have you a bit worried.

Remember.  This is an industry that has redesigned games right out from under paying customers (SWG), closed games within months of announcing they were committed to the game long haul (CoH, Tabula Rasa), and failed to deliver what was advertised (Age of Mourning, Dark and Light).  And this was before kickstarter, and this includes publishing houses that are marquee players (SOE, NCSoft).

Gamers have always relied on three things to keep them from being scammed:

1)  The Retailer.  Places like Gamestop and Best Buy are not going to put crap on their shelves, because when the crap is exposed as crap, the onus is going to be on the retailer to refund the product or exchange it.  Therefore, buyers for the retail chains constitute a layer of protection for the consumer.  Yet with digital distribution, this level of protection is cut out.

2)  The Printed Rulebook.  Printed rulebooks on how to play the game ensure that game changes are kept to a minimum.  They are almost like a de facto "contract" between the producer and the consumer.  Because if you change something fundamental (like combat controls), the rulebook provides some evidence that the game wasn't what you purchased that you could use to force a refund.  These days, however, printed rulebooks are hard to find...probably exactly because they constrain the developer to keep the core game the same.  Some may say that's a good thing, but for those who were ever NGE'd in this business, the lack of fidelity to the rulebook is tantamount to a bait and switch.

3)  Professional Investors.  Say what you will about "the suits," but these are people that, believe it or not, don't want crap either.  But what makes them good for us is that they have the resources, muscle and expertise to do the sort of due dillegence we need.  If you are a venture capitalist who throws half a million into a project, you are going to get your audit.  You might even have your own independent auditor on retainer.  You also have a kind of "fast track" hotline to the project head by virtue of your stake in the final product.  When cost overruns happen or setbacks happen (which they always do), the professional venture capitalist will get the extra money out there quickly to fix the problem.  And if the project needs some expertise, the venture capitalist will often provide this expertise, or have connections which will aid in development.

And it's this last point where Kickstarter is going to potentially hurt us.

Kickstart funders can't be compared with professional investors.  They don't have the clout or ability to call an audit.  You are going to be dealt with by their public relations people as a consumer would, as a nuissance more than a partner, which means you'll get dealt with on their time with their boilerplate spin.  If more money is required, you'll have to wait for another kickstarter to cycle through.  And as far as expertise is concerned, well, I'm real skeptical that a legion of $20 kickstarter people are going to be much help with anything...except causing a lot of trouble, and making the games worse.

In short, if you believe that you should pay good money for whatever crap a wirehead thinks about giving you on a given day, you should like where this industry is going.  But if you want to have a little bit of assurance that what you pay for is what you should get, you should be damn worried these days.

__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken

"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  TehTic

Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/13
Posts: 41

4/06/13 2:42:39 PM#75

I definitely believe kickstarter  could be a great asset to small studios or what have you. The problem is as everybody realizes there's nothing there to hold somebody accountable for these types of investments. So on the likelihood you would be screwed over is probably in the 90 percentile. Now if you have some available cash flow and believe in a project I could understand investing in something. But without accountability to these projects  you may as well just go buy a lottery ticket and hope for the best. And to put it into common terms you have 1:160 million chance in winning the jackpot.

 

As for ending the PC gaming platform. This just makes me laugh for many reasons. There's no way this would and the PC gaming platform. As that every development studio is pushing hardware to their limits to ensure that their game stands out above the rest. And as it stands only PC  is the most customizable in regards to power for applications and games. These two reasons alone solidify PC gaming will be around for many years. Probably within 5 to 7 years you will see mobile gaming hit a high point but this will be most likely in conjunction with PC gaming. In other words allowing you to access your PC game and do things within the environment from your mobile device.

  teddyboy420

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/22/04
Posts: 390

Blessed are the forgetful: for they get the better even of their blunders - Friedrich Nietzsche

4/06/13 2:43:21 PM#76
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
Originally posted by Comaf
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
.........

I get how this is theoretically (perhaps even innocently) meant to derail Mr. Jacob's recent KS project with Camelot Unchained.  However, this is a man with a solid resume' (Dark Age of Camelot)...he is also human, however (Warhammer), and has promised to meet and exceed the 2 million dollar minimum needed to get this project initially funded.  He would not commit career suicide by making false promises, and, considering the state of the mmorpg these days, there is no RPG in the last few mmo's (arguably) and with the rise of mediocre basic meal mmo's with the same same 5 class race combos, I dare say Camelot Unchained is a kickstarter worth investing in.

 

 

Excuse me, but there are hundreds of Kickstarter campaigns on the KS website. This is turning into a billion dollar rackateer website that no one knows where the money is actually going.

As far as CU, it is dead to me.

 

Anyone is annoyed with the big Cu KS image, right click it, select image properties and then select "block image in the lower left corner"

 

Again, as in any endevour, there are sure to be less-than-scroupulous people looking to take advantage of the public at large. But, calling the whole of KS and crowdfunding racketeering is just, well, it's not correct. As an adult, if you don't do your research, and due dilligence, then you get what you deserve if it fails. If, after that, it doesn't meet your standards than by all means don't contribute. But if it does, and you feel good enough about putting your hard-earned money into a project you support, more power to you.

As far as CU being dead to you b/c of the way it's being funded, even if it succesfully releases....that's just daft.

Fine, you aren't into the type of game it is, or it doesn't have features you are interested in. But b/c of the way it's being funded? What do you give a shit HOW it was made (the game being solely funded by known heroin dealers, child molestors, or rapists aside)?

I'm starting to wonder if you aren't just a troll now. I could believe you being worried about your gaming platform of choice, or just speakng out againt crowdfunding b/c you find it suspect...but between 'CU being dead to you', and the whole 'anyone annoyed w/ the KS image' blocking instructions I have to wonder what your intentions really are.

  Dren_Utogi

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1468

 
OP  4/06/13 2:58:19 PM#77
The only thing that can keep the platform viable is beleive it or not, Valves Steam, and even then Steam is getting put into a box and on the TV.....

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  ThomasN7

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6654

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

4/06/13 3:00:21 PM#78
Originally posted by Fearum
Keep buying the big company reskinned horse crap they can't shovel out fast enough to feed the masses. Keep purchaseing from that cash shop to get the new shiney.

Amen to that. QFT!

  Dren_Utogi

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1468

 
OP  4/06/13 3:02:57 PM#79
Originally posted by teddyboy420
 

Please dont hijack the topic. This is a general topic that I got trolled into to speaking out about a particular game. Please stay on topic with general look on KS and how is could disrupt the PC platform.

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  Four0Six

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/18/11
Posts: 1091

4/06/13 3:04:16 PM#80
Originally posted by Fearum
Keep buying the big company reskinned horse crap they can't shovel out fast enough to feed the masses. Keep purchaseing from that cash shop to get the new shiney.

Atleast there is a "shiney".

IF you woudl kindly point me to the successfull KS game shelf  I will head over and pick one up, I might add I havent prepurchased in years and only buy launched games...

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