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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » How to break the conditioning of MMO?

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  zspawn

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/07
Posts: 418

 
OP  4/04/13 5:01:49 PM#21

Originally posted by Kyleran

Have you ever tried EVE? Progression can't be worked for, it is a real time component that only advances with the passing of time. 

Sure, there's progression in the game, in the form of earning cash, but for some reason it doesn't seem as arduous to me since I don't "have" to do it. 

Heck, if I want to, I can buy PLEX and trade them for in game ISK and never even have to farm if I don't want, to, could just PVP all day long (or craft, whatever)

Many people despise the system for a variety of valid (you can't speed the process up by working harder) and invalid (you'll never catch up to the vets, you don't need to, another topic) reasons.

Me, I loved it, was particularly good for a person like myself who can only invest a few hours a day into a game.

 

I tried EVE, not my cup of tea I'm afraid doesn't appeal to me at all :/ 

 

 

Originally posted by Rusque

It doesn't matter what game you play, if you ever ask the question, "What's the point of doing ____?" You will never be satisfied.

The truth is, that games are for fun, there is no other point to any of them. Unless you play professionally in which case you are trying to improve and make more money, but then it's a job isn't it?

 

Take any game and dissect any given task and see if it has intrinsic value. Minecraft? Literally virtual legos. You just build and pop bricks. No point. Raiding? Better numbers on dps meter? Prettier pixels to equip your character with? No point. Pvp? You kill an opponent and you get . . . better pixels to equip your character with? No point. Perma-Death PvP? Still no point.

You either play games for fun or you don't. People asking for meaningful MMO content are not being satisfied in their everyday life in some way be it work, love, or accomplishing some long term goal they have for themselves. Games are entertainment and the day they start having meaning in my life outside of fun is the day I stop playing them and find something fun to do.

I totally agree with everything you said. However as I said, saying it and actually doing it for me is not "in tune". I am 100% aware of the fact that gaming = fun and nothing more. I'm not into e-sports or competitive gaming besides fun and thrills and I already have a demanding and stressing line of work.

However as correct my approach and mindset is BEFORE I login into an online game or pop a single player game in, 5 minutes ingame the "conditioning" sets in... I start to "feel" the urge to have a goal beyond fun... That's why I made this thread and I "blame" the conditioning (and myself ofcourse for going with it)... I bought all these games + systems, I finished quite a lot of them BEFORE getting into WoW specifically (due to peer pressure, RL friends playing it etc.) and I went with the flow... and I find myself stuck in this flow...

 

Viewing the Extra Credits episode about intrinsic+extrinsic rewarding made me realise that post-WoW, I cannot have fun the same way as I used to...

I used to burn hours on Burnout 2 for example to get all gold medals etc. and I never questioned my motives or the "rewards".

I used to be able to roam around in Oblivion doing random stuff and exploring without questiong "but why am I doing this now? What's in it for me?".

Now? I can't do that. I either start "powerplaying" through a game for achievements, pixelated prestige or move through it fast enough to get to the next game .. Which is a metagame in itself ("Let's complete more games this year than the previous one").

 

How do you drop a mindset like that I wonder? :D

This is the reason I am on the fence about GW2 because even if it is an MMO and of course it can be "exploited" to be powered through or "find a grind" in it, it's also one of the games that offer hope since it did break the raiding/prestige/gear based elitism mould...Maybe it can be useful in "forcing" a new mindset.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4755

4/05/13 2:50:20 AM#22
Originally posted by zspawn
Originally posted by aesperus
*snip for length*

Actually the Extra Credits is what "woke me up" and started realising some things...

I do own a PS3 and Steam (I donate to Humble Bundle weekly for charity and I ended up getting a lot of indie games etc.)

I tried Tera, Aion, Wushu this week and I just uninstalled within an hour of gameplay. GW2 is probably the only one I see myself playing... I did enjoy LOTRO back in the day before it went F2P but my character got wiped in the transition so I can't see myself replaying all the content even if it's kind of F2P now...I can admit I enjoyed EQ2 more than the rest of the games I played...The whole adventure/huge world to be explored is more attractive to me deep inside than e-sports or competitive endgame :)

Past 2 days I took the following steps:

1) Uninstall any MMO or other F2P game - Just kept GW2 installed (since I paid for it)

2) Still debating on Ghost Recon Online - It's kinda fun but limited and had a recent aimbot/cheat outbreak - 

3) I am making a habit of playing one match of League of Legends per day, every day - Some real life friends play it and the more I learn about it and the better I become, it is also more fun to play (and the skin toughens against the obnoxious community:P)

4) I made this post to seek the advice and ideas of my fellow gamers ! :)

Haha! Sounds very familiar =P.

If you like Leage of Legends, I'd highly suggest giving Dota2 a try. I think both games are pretty good, but I actually like Dota2 a lot more. Not only are the graphics a lot better, but the way items work in Dota2 is really really well done.

If you like FPS games, PS2 is actually kinda fun for a F2P game. You NEED to join an ops though to get the true experience. You can play solo, but it's nowhere near close to the experience you get from playing w/ other people (and there's a lot of casual friendly ops in the game that will let you hop & and out as you please).

I'd also HIGHLY recommend Natural Selection 2. It used to be a mod for Halflife, it's made by a very small indie studio (they have like 5 devs). It's basically a FPS version of Teran vs. Zerg (though done in a much more unique way), and is a ton of fun. It's also fairly inexpensive last I checked (~15$ or so on Steam).

- Since you do have a PS3, definitely keep an eye out for 'Last of Us', the next Demon Souls, Dragon's Dogma 2, etc.. there's some really good games coming out in the next year or so for PS3.

  zspawn

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/07
Posts: 418

 
OP  4/05/13 3:15:49 AM#23
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by zspawn
Originally posted by aesperus
*snip for length*

** blabalalbal**

Haha! Sounds very familiar =P.

If you like Leage of Legends, I'd highly suggest giving Dota2 a try. I think both games are pretty good, but I actually like Dota2 a lot more. Not only are the graphics a lot better, but the way items work in Dota2 is really really well done.

If you like FPS games, PS2 is actually kinda fun for a F2P game. You NEED to join an ops though to get the true experience. You can play solo, but it's nowhere near close to the experience you get from playing w/ other people (and there's a lot of casual friendly ops in the game that will let you hop & and out as you please).

I'd also HIGHLY recommend Natural Selection 2. It used to be a mod for Halflife, it's made by a very small indie studio (they have like 5 devs). It's basically a FPS version of Teran vs. Zerg (though done in a much more unique way), and is a ton of fun. It's also fairly inexpensive last I checked (~15$ or so on Steam).

- Since you do have a PS3, definitely keep an eye out for 'Last of Us', the next Demon Souls, Dragon's Dogma 2, etc.. there's some really good games coming out in the next year or so for PS3.

I have to stick to LoL since my RL friends play that and won't make the move to Dota2 or HoN I'm afraid :P

I tried PS2 but i prefer BF3 for various reasons.

All your suggestions are very good but as I said, I already have a big backlog of games so that's no problem :)

I recently got Penumbra series, Amnesia, Serious Sam collection, Painkiller collection, Titan Quest + expansion, Company of Heroes and Witcher on Steam (damn their special offers :D)

I also have BF3 + CoD on XBOX360... Also Gears of War + Halo for multiplayer...

Problem isn't the lack of games...Rather the lack of motivation and that these games do not feed the hunger of the mindset I'm stuck in :/

  Scalpless

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1301

4/05/13 4:42:10 AM#24

I think about it this way:

What do you get for raiding?

What do you get for getting the Flaming Sword of Badass Slaying +10?

Nothing.

In the end, you "get" as much for playing GW2 or Amnesia as you would get from playing any other MMO. Pointless digital stuff that doesn't make you special in any way.

  zspawn

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/07
Posts: 418

 
OP  4/05/13 1:24:17 PM#25
Originally posted by Scalpless

I think about it this way:

What do you get for raiding?

What do you get for getting the Flaming Sword of Badass Slaying +10?

Nothing.

In the end, you "get" as much for playing GW2 or Amnesia as you would get from playing any other MMO. Pointless digital stuff that doesn't make you special in any way.

 

That's true, however I believe the Flaming Sword of Badass Slaying +10 is more attractive than something else a non-loot centric game offers... I blame the mindset we all adopt (or at least most of us)... 

How to keep it real and honest and dispell the "value" of such items and return to seeking fun than achievements or pixel rewards? :)

  JoeyMMO

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 1330

To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug*

4/05/13 4:31:08 PM#26
Originally posted by zspawn
Originally posted by Scalpless

I think about it this way:

What do you get for raiding?

What do you get for getting the Flaming Sword of Badass Slaying +10?

Nothing.

In the end, you "get" as much for playing GW2 or Amnesia as you would get from playing any other MMO. Pointless digital stuff that doesn't make you special in any way.

That's true, however I believe the Flaming Sword of Badass Slaying +10 is more attractive than something else a non-loot centric game offers... I blame the mindset we all adopt (or at least most of us)... 

How to keep it real and honest and dispell the "value" of such items and return to seeking fun than achievements or pixel rewards? :)

I've gotten over the whole gear threadmill. It's meaningless, with the next expansion the gear you worked so hard for, the money you "invested" into that game, it all becomes trivial and you're supposed to go on the threadmill once again for the next tier of stuff.

You should be looking at games for what they are. You're supposed to have fun while playing a game, not feel forced to just about  give up your real life in order to obtain meaningless digital items.

While GW2 isn't all you can dream it could be, it's still a great game for casual players.

  User Deleted
4/05/13 5:02:22 PM#27

When players avatar gets experience and player dont,then theres an error.

 

heres my formula:

www.C64.com

back to the basics and find out whats wrong.

Usually after some C64 sessions i uninstall lots of new games that  i have been testing and try to find some better ones,sometimes i find ,sometimes i dont.

 

 

  zspawn

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/07
Posts: 418

 
OP  4/06/13 8:24:26 AM#28
Originally posted by JoeyMMO
Originally posted by zspawn
Originally posted by Scalpless

I think about it this way:

What do you get for raiding?

What do you get for getting the Flaming Sword of Badass Slaying +10?

Nothing.

In the end, you "get" as much for playing GW2 or Amnesia as you would get from playing any other MMO. Pointless digital stuff that doesn't make you special in any way.

That's true, however I believe the Flaming Sword of Badass Slaying +10 is more attractive than something else a non-loot centric game offers... I blame the mindset we all adopt (or at least most of us)... 

How to keep it real and honest and dispell the "value" of such items and return to seeking fun than achievements or pixel rewards? :)

I've gotten over the whole gear threadmill. It's meaningless, with the next expansion the gear you worked so hard for, the money you "invested" into that game, it all becomes trivial and you're supposed to go on the threadmill once again for the next tier of stuff.

You should be looking at games for what they are. You're supposed to have fun while playing a game, not feel forced to just about  give up your real life in order to obtain meaningless digital items.

While GW2 isn't all you can dream it could be, it's still a great game for casual players.

I uninstalled everything and I got GW2 hoping I'd break the mould...I also decided never to buy anything with a subscription fee... After all I think that if a game has a fee, they will create the mechanics to justify it... Thus promoting time sinks... However I find myself logging in to GW2 and starting at the screen unmotivated to do anything day after day... I managed to get my guardian to 42 (took me more than 2 months of on/off gameplay) and I can't play with him anymore it bores me to tears... I feel i am neglecting my other games whenever i login to GW2 ( a feeling i never had with WoW or similar games)

 

I'm wondering if i should just set a GW2 day per week and focus the rest on my other games :P But an MMO that is played only once a week? Oh the blasphemy :D hehe

  JoeyMMO

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 1330

To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug*

4/06/13 5:55:27 PM#29
Originally posted by zspawn
*snip*

I'm wondering if i should just set a GW2 day per week and focus the rest on my other games :P But an MMO that is played only once a week? Oh the blasphemy :D hehe

If you want to play the rest of your games you can. I just play GW2 for a couple of hours a day and I don't miss any other game.

The only problem I have with my guardians is that they run so frickin' slow compared to other classes, maybe there's a skill or trait I still need to stumble upon somewhere, then again they're a big Norn (Level 38 or something) and a big Charr (Level 56), so it could be just an impression because of their size.

I can also play my guardian half asleep most of the time. The class is pretty easy to play. When I get tired I swith to a Guardian for some relatively easy-mode gameplay. Have you actually tried other squishier classes that keep you on your toes more?

I have over a dozen toons and I like to play some classes more than others obviously. But if you have to force yourself to play GW2 then maybe it's really just not for you. Either that or you really need to cut back on your gaming drastically and find some more real life things to do. GW2 is not a replacement, and certainly not a perfect replacement, for an MMO addiction. It for those players that have really had it with being forced to build their life around being able to play a game you're supposed to enjoy.

If you still really miss your other MMO's, then maybe a sabatical is the only thing that will really help you.

  ZombieKen

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

4/06/13 6:01:16 PM#30
Originally posted by zspawn
 

What would be your approach to "break the mould" and "repair" your mindset ?

 

 

You don't.  The mindset isn't broken, it's just come to the reality that MMO PVE gameplay consists of doing boring tasks in order to gain up gear and level, in order to get the the "fun" activity.  However, when you do get the "fun" it's only "fun" the first couple of times, then it's back to doing the same stuff over and over, hoping to eventually find more "fun".

 

The cake is a lie.

 

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  ZombieKen

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

4/06/13 6:02:43 PM#31
Originally posted by zspawn
 

I'm wondering if i should just set a GW2 day per week and focus the rest on my other games :P But an MMO that is played only once a week? Oh the blasphemy :D hehe

 

The beauty of buy to play.  Put it down for a few months.  It might feel fresh again.

 

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  zspawn

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/07
Posts: 418

 
OP  4/09/13 4:46:40 AM#32
Originally posted by XAPKen
Originally posted by zspawn
 

I'm wondering if i should just set a GW2 day per week and focus the rest on my other games :P But an MMO that is played only once a week? Oh the blasphemy :D hehe

 

The beauty of buy to play.  Put it down for a few months.  It might feel fresh again.

 

That's true! I doubt i'll ever get a sub based game ever again. The pressure of "i must get my money's value" combined with the mechanics and time sinks a sub based game must employ to keep players paying is a no-no in my book from now on...

  phumbaba

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 88

4/09/13 5:53:15 AM#33

I would assume that looking for incentives to do things in what ever you do is part of the typical lifestyle we tend to get into after or even while growing up. Part of the problem is also making end game your goal. If the game suffices, I for example have found that I'm able to have more fun, if I don't plan ahead and only play for the moment. Usually I'm able to play well enough to not do anything irrevocable. Of course, some games require me to do a bit research and nearing end game is when it usually occurs.

The topic also touches horizontal progression. E.g. a crafting system might comprise of 400+ levels and be as linear as possible or it might comprise of only handful of levels and be based on making your own inventions, improvements and designs while crafting. Another example is social interactions. Another is player events. Another is sometimes pvp if available. Another is fashion and decoration...

As is well known, end game these days offers much more freedom than leveling. Imo this is faulty game design. Via horizontal leveling and introducing most game elements early enough, I believe games gain longevity. It might encourage players to spend more time leveling. The more the push to end game is, the faster the zerg there is, the bigger the need to plan is, and the bigger the disappointment is. In my experience. No, this isn't related to themepark vs. sandbox.

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