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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Breake traditional trend of mmo's how?

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28 posts found
  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

 
OP  4/05/13 3:38:48 AM#1

First of all this is purely what i think would be great idea for mmo's(already suggested this on topic in 2008 i think long thread about how mmo should be).

 

A huge open ended world very nice realistic looking world ala DayZ or as beuatiful and diverse as Skyrim.

Get rid of ALL numbers no healthbar no stats no more xp or lvls.

Survival simulation.

Need food/water, fire, tools, herbs all kinds of things to survive.

Monsters/npc's: Dangerous wild life-dinosaurs-monsters-vampiers/werewolfs(lycans) or zombies don't realy matter aslong its (very)challenging and unpredictable sandbox style.

Dynamic weather system with real day/night cycly 24hrs, storms, rain, snow, tornados or vulcano eruptions all influence enviroment and deformation of world terrain.

Mobs npc's should have real dynamic life cycle and move around also influence your surroundings so good AI is a pre.

Survial simulation it need to be real challenge so no easy walk in the park with permadeath so as in Dayz spawm randomly and have to survive again as long a you can.

You could make a free for all server or pure pve server as long its a real challenge so both camps have what they want.

So again no numbers no lvls no xp no proffesions no skills just pure simulation and what you find you have abillity as human already to make tools or survive, find stuff you can use to defend or survive harsh enviroment and enemys you encounter.

MMO'S TODAY:

If we keep going the direction we go for more then a decade now we will see repeating for next 20 years same kind of bullcrap(purely my opinion i see it) thats released every month of the year.

This offcorse only hold for those that want a change in mmo market as it is now.

Just an idea maybe you have better one who knows some genius devs see it and make game out of it succefully:)

I can dream right:)

 

  free2play

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1817

4/05/13 4:49:40 AM#2

What's missing in games is character life.

You make a character, you have 5 years. At the end of 5 years, the character 'fades in to legend'. In certain game cases you might be able to pluck another year out of it, no more. After that you can do one of two things. Start over or pass on your legacy. Some things you simply can't just hand over like you would 100 bars of gold. Experience and credibility are earned through deed. Anyone who as ever played the same character for 5 years will appreciate that as a time frame. It's the shelf life of a character. After that you are running alts. The character is better off a memory and if that memory is done right it can make a healthier game.

In this perfect MMO world, everyone starts as an 'Average Joe/ Average Jane'. The end of the line for any character is, legend with level start on how much of one or Average Joe/ Average Jane and 5 years go could go by and they pass in to time as a complete nobody. Happens all the time. You could even build a character to be this and on purpose. Happens all the time. With every intention of handing it all down to another character who you will have rise to infamy. In any case, first char or third, when you gain notoriety you do it in a time frame and it makes sense.

 

Something else needs to change in MMO games though. Move from free to play to locked in contracts like any other company has. The phone company isn't trying to get you to use their service for free, they want you to sign a 2 year contract. While an MMO can have an option to populate their world for free what MMO game companies should be promoting is long term subscriptions. This allows the game companies to develop the game worlds. If you know you have subscription  money for the next 2 years you can then make plans on how to develop with that in mind. Add in some gravy along the way but develop based on the long term subscriptions. If gamers understand that they are investing in their world, they will sign up accordingly. Free to play should have been try before you buy, not free to throw away at your first lazy desire.

 

What you are suggesting is more than possible but it requires great dedication from all people involved.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20150

4/05/13 11:16:20 AM#3

I want to play games, not world sims.

There are already a lot of break throughs.

ARPG with MMO features.

MMO shooters.

MOBA & e-sport arena PvP games.

All different from traditional MMOs with some MMO elements.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17380

4/05/13 11:18:19 AM#4
Originally posted by nariusseldon

I want to play games, not world sims.

Yeah but I wante to play World SIMS!!!!

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20150

4/05/13 11:25:01 AM#5
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by nariusseldon

I want to play games, not world sims.

Yeah but I wante to play World SIMS!!!!

Let's play different games then. It is not like there is only one entertainment product.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17380

4/05/13 11:42:13 AM#6
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by nariusseldon

I want to play games, not world sims.

Yeah but I wante to play World SIMS!!!!

Let's play different games then. It is not like there is only one entertainment product.

Well that would be my first assumption but you responded to him saying that you didn't want to play world sims, just games. So wouldn't we just assume that you would also assume this by reading his post? Yet you did want to point it out.

yeah yeah, it's a picayune point

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

4/05/13 11:48:26 AM#7
Just a note, a 24hr day-night cycle is bad. You will lock people into days or nights based on where they live and when they play. Go with a smaller multiple that will guarantee that if you log on the same time every day you'll experience a different part of the day-night cycle. Something like 4hr day, 3 hrs night is long enough to keep things flowing. Then, at night, make it DayZ dark. Not faux dark, advanced dark (during a new moon phase) and have moonlight be relevant.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1636

4/05/13 11:54:10 AM#8
Originally posted by free2play

What's missing in games is character life.

You make a character, you have 5 years. At the end of 5 years, the character 'fades in to legend'. In certain game cases you might be able to pluck another year out of it, no more. After that you can do one of two things. Start over or pass on your legacy. Some things you simply can't just hand over like you would 100 bars of gold. Experience and credibility are earned through deed. Anyone who as ever played the same character for 5 years will appreciate that as a time frame. It's the shelf life of a character. After that you are running alts. The character is better off a memory and if that memory is done right it can make a healthier game.

In this perfect MMO world, everyone starts as an 'Average Joe/ Average Jane'. The end of the line for any character is, legend with level start on how much of one or Average Joe/ Average Jane and 5 years go could go by and they pass in to time as a complete nobody. Happens all the time. You could even build a character to be this and on purpose. Happens all the time. With every intention of handing it all down to another character who you will have rise to infamy. In any case, first char or third, when you gain notoriety you do it in a time frame and it makes sense.

 

Something else needs to change in MMO games though. Move from free to play to locked in contracts like any other company has. The phone company isn't trying to get you to use their service for free, they want you to sign a 2 year contract. While an MMO can have an option to populate their world for free what MMO game companies should be promoting is long term subscriptions. This allows the game companies to develop the game worlds. If you know you have subscription  money for the next 2 years you can then make plans on how to develop with that in mind. Add in some gravy along the way but develop based on the long term subscriptions. If gamers understand that they are investing in their world, they will sign up accordingly. Free to play should have been try before you buy, not free to throw away at your first lazy desire.

 

What you are suggesting is more than possible but it requires great dedication from all people involved.

That would make me and (many others I imagine) keep well away from whatever game attempted this. Phone companies are pretty much the only companies I can think of when it comes to contact services. I don't have a locked in contract for electric, gas, water, TV/internet. At any point, I can choose to have any of those services turned off for whatever reason I choose.

The first half of your post was fine, but you went way off the deep end there.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3293

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

4/05/13 12:52:36 PM#9

The way to break "the trend" is to stop trying to make every game for every player.

- Dev and publisher pick your audience. (NOT everybody!)
- Stick to that audience, as not everyone will like what you make. Ignore the flames.
- Count on smaller numbers that hopefully last longer.

Easy as 1 - 2 - 3...

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

4/05/13 3:13:34 PM#10
The op is nearly 15 years to late... Everquest was a fantasy world simulator, until "easy mode" people turned it into an arcade game.

The game ur looking for is on its way...

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  anemo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/24/10
Posts: 700

4/05/13 3:26:35 PM#11

If those are your ideal why aren't you playing something like WurmOnline, Salem, or Xyson.   Better yet why aren't you actively recruiting for the sucess of those games.

All in all there are things more important to you than playing in a world.

Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

"There are still vast swaths of our planet's surface in which it's surprisingly easy to lose things. Even a ship the size of a large building." Richard Fisher

  free2play

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1817

4/05/13 10:55:17 PM#12
Originally posted by Kaneth
Originally posted by free2play

What's missing in games is character life.

You make a character, you have 5 years. At the end of 5 years, the character 'fades in to legend'. In certain game cases you might be able to pluck another year out of it, no more. After that you can do one of two things. Start over or pass on your legacy. Some things you simply can't just hand over like you would 100 bars of gold. Experience and credibility are earned through deed. Anyone who as ever played the same character for 5 years will appreciate that as a time frame. It's the shelf life of a character. After that you are running alts. The character is better off a memory and if that memory is done right it can make a healthier game.

In this perfect MMO world, everyone starts as an 'Average Joe/ Average Jane'. The end of the line for any character is, legend with level start on how much of one or Average Joe/ Average Jane and 5 years go could go by and they pass in to time as a complete nobody. Happens all the time. You could even build a character to be this and on purpose. Happens all the time. With every intention of handing it all down to another character who you will have rise to infamy. In any case, first char or third, when you gain notoriety you do it in a time frame and it makes sense.

 

Something else needs to change in MMO games though. Move from free to play to locked in contracts like any other company has. The phone company isn't trying to get you to use their service for free, they want you to sign a 2 year contract. While an MMO can have an option to populate their world for free what MMO game companies should be promoting is long term subscriptions. This allows the game companies to develop the game worlds. If you know you have subscription  money for the next 2 years you can then make plans on how to develop with that in mind. Add in some gravy along the way but develop based on the long term subscriptions. If gamers understand that they are investing in their world, they will sign up accordingly. Free to play should have been try before you buy, not free to throw away at your first lazy desire.

 

What you are suggesting is more than possible but it requires great dedication from all people involved.

That would make me and (many others I imagine) keep well away from whatever game attempted this. Phone companies are pretty much the only companies I can think of when it comes to contact services. I don't have a locked in contract for electric, gas, water, TV/internet. At any point, I can choose to have any of those services turned off for whatever reason I choose.

The first half of your post was fine, but you went way off the deep end there.

Every industry out there tries to rope you in to financing. MMO subscription rates favor annual now over 1 month. Speaking of going over the deep end, how would it be any different if they actively promoted this module?

  ZombieKen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

4/05/13 11:03:17 PM#13

I like the world simulation concept.  I'm not sure I'd play one as an MMORPG because survival implies PVP, which I prefer to avoid.  Give me creepy caves, ancient ruins, and loads of female vampires... that'd make me happy.

 

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1636

4/06/13 6:08:38 PM#14
Originally posted by free2play
Originally posted by Kaneth
Originally posted by free2play

What's missing in games is character life.

You make a character, you have 5 years. At the end of 5 years, the character 'fades in to legend'. In certain game cases you might be able to pluck another year out of it, no more. After that you can do one of two things. Start over or pass on your legacy. Some things you simply can't just hand over like you would 100 bars of gold. Experience and credibility are earned through deed. Anyone who as ever played the same character for 5 years will appreciate that as a time frame. It's the shelf life of a character. After that you are running alts. The character is better off a memory and if that memory is done right it can make a healthier game.

In this perfect MMO world, everyone starts as an 'Average Joe/ Average Jane'. The end of the line for any character is, legend with level start on how much of one or Average Joe/ Average Jane and 5 years go could go by and they pass in to time as a complete nobody. Happens all the time. You could even build a character to be this and on purpose. Happens all the time. With every intention of handing it all down to another character who you will have rise to infamy. In any case, first char or third, when you gain notoriety you do it in a time frame and it makes sense.

 

Something else needs to change in MMO games though. Move from free to play to locked in contracts like any other company has. The phone company isn't trying to get you to use their service for free, they want you to sign a 2 year contract. While an MMO can have an option to populate their world for free what MMO game companies should be promoting is long term subscriptions. This allows the game companies to develop the game worlds. If you know you have subscription  money for the next 2 years you can then make plans on how to develop with that in mind. Add in some gravy along the way but develop based on the long term subscriptions. If gamers understand that they are investing in their world, they will sign up accordingly. Free to play should have been try before you buy, not free to throw away at your first lazy desire.

 

What you are suggesting is more than possible but it requires great dedication from all people involved.

That would make me and (many others I imagine) keep well away from whatever game attempted this. Phone companies are pretty much the only companies I can think of when it comes to contact services. I don't have a locked in contract for electric, gas, water, TV/internet. At any point, I can choose to have any of those services turned off for whatever reason I choose.

The first half of your post was fine, but you went way off the deep end there.

Every industry out there tries to rope you in to financing. MMO subscription rates favor annual now over 1 month. Speaking of going over the deep end, how would it be any different if they actively promoted this module?

The mmo genre is moving away from subscription models, and that is pretty evident. B2P and F2P models are becoming the norm, and numerous interviews with industry big names even comment how the genre is moving away from sub models. Yes, sub based games give discounts for multi-month subscription packages, but given how many of the games even with those discount packages have gone F2P or B2P, shows that's not even enough to keep gamers interested.

The model that seems to be working, at the moment, across gaming as a whole is DLC packages and Cash Shops. It's pretty common for a $60 game to have another $60+ of added content over the course of the game's lifespan. The DLC packages are often smaller amounts of optional content, but gamers can pick and choose what content they wish to pay for. Additionally, the more fluff that seems to be in the store, seemingly the more people are willing to throw cash at it.

That's the newer financial hook for gaming. Contractual subscription models are something that probably would have worked 5+ years ago, but now, not a chance. If a game company creates a game backed by quality, they will make money, plain and simple. Anyone else who feels the need to try some gimmick models, knows their game is utter shit and is attempting a cash grab (STO anyone?).

  User Deleted
4/06/13 6:17:26 PM#15
Here's an idea... you only have to pay if you are actually playing the game... so if you are not leveling, PVPing, in a dungeon, a raid, or doing dailies... the game is absolutely free.  Instead of measuring subscriptions, they can measure actual game play which they claim everyone is doing 100% of the time anyways.  You're waiting for some queue to pop... no charge to you... as far as game play metrics go, you aren't even logged in until you do one of the aforementioned things above.  As soon as you stop, you are not considered online.  So that 11 million subscriber bullshit can be measured for what it is... people paying for a game they aren't even playing.
  iixviiiix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 541

4/07/13 12:00:27 AM#16

current technology don't allow it happen.

And Wasn't your dream like a real world , then just play a game called "real world" haha .

All hall for our greatest developer , our creator . who created a bestest MMORPG called "universe".

 

What you feel missing in MMORPG not character's life .

It world's life.

Because you play in lifeless world , you feel game lack of life.

 

What we need are someone role as "WORLD" , someone play a role of gods

Someone who control over weather

Someone who created , control and move monster around , attack player and npc , earn they territory

Someone control over npc , give them life and delete them when they role over or when they time end.

Someone give reason for every action in the world player play

 

It a current  concept to created "world" in MMORPG.

But it not easy to make pus it will cost too much to run them hahaha.

And don't tell me "why can't player role as world" . if you let a kid role as world , who know how he will mess it.

 

Originally posted by pmiles
Here's an idea... you only have to pay if you are actually playing the game... so if you are not leveling, PVPing, in a dungeon, a raid, or doing dailies... the game is absolutely free.  Instead of measuring subscriptions, they can measure actual game play which they claim everyone is doing 100% of the time anyways.  You're waiting for some queue to pop... no charge to you... as far as game play metrics go, you aren't even logged in until you do one of the aforementioned things above.  As soon as you stop, you are not considered online.  So that 11 million subscriber bullshit can be measured for what it is... people paying for a game they aren't even playing.

Yeah , how to pay are one of most trouble problem of MMORPG now adays.

My idea is F2P as single player , can't trade or make party.

Then You need pay sub to enjoy MMO element sof game.

haha thought i don't know it this idea are good or not in reallity

  rodingo

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1790

4/07/13 12:09:43 AM#17
Originally posted by pmiles
Here's an idea... you only have to pay if you are actually playing the game... so if you are not leveling, PVPing, in a dungeon, a raid, or doing dailies... the game is absolutely free.  Instead of measuring subscriptions, they can measure actual game play which they claim everyone is doing 100% of the time anyways.  You're waiting for some queue to pop... no charge to you... as far as game play metrics go, you aren't even logged in until you do one of the aforementioned things above.  As soon as you stop, you are not considered online.  So that 11 million subscriber bullshit can be measured for what it is... people paying for a game they aren't even playing.

That would be cool for mostly casual players, like me.  However the hardcores that put in 16+ hour days would go broke. 

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  Hedeon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/05
Posts: 916

4/07/13 12:43:05 AM#18
Originally posted by rodingo
Originally posted by pmiles
Here's an idea... you only have to pay if you are actually playing the game... so if you are not leveling, PVPing, in a dungeon, a raid, or doing dailies... the game is absolutely free.  Instead of measuring subscriptions, they can measure actual game play which they claim everyone is doing 100% of the time anyways.  You're waiting for some queue to pop... no charge to you... as far as game play metrics go, you aren't even logged in until you do one of the aforementioned things above.  As soon as you stop, you are not considered online.  So that 11 million subscriber bullshit can be measured for what it is... people paying for a game they aren't even playing.

That would be cool for mostly casual players, like me.  However the hardcores that put in 16+ hour days would go broke. 

heh nah it would be an absolutely nightmare to play such a game, ofc depending how much you d pay pr. minute, but people are so worried about their precious time already, then put another reason in for speed runs and self made gear requirements....

  Jemcrystal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1354

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

4/07/13 1:03:37 AM#19

i want a world sims where i can kill stuff - and i'm down with no annoying need and want bars

 

i want an ART PROGRAM as my char creation screen

 

i want another ART PROGRAM to design my own armor, furniture, pets and mounts

 

BUT THE QUESTION WAS HOW?  

The answer is "not happening" because there's nothing but stupid sell-out fart-head geeks making games and in the end they'd ruin my game with PvP crap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EoRBvdVPQ

  free2play

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1817

4/07/13 1:18:34 AM#20
Originally posted by Kaneth
The mmo genre is moving away from subscription models, and that is pretty evident. B2P and F2P models are becoming the norm, and numerous interviews with industry big names even comment how the genre is moving away from sub models. Yes, sub based games give discounts for multi-month subscription packages, but given how many of the games even with those discount packages have gone F2P or B2P, shows that's not even enough to keep gamers interested.

The model that seems to be working, at the moment, across gaming as a whole is DLC packages and Cash Shops. It's pretty common for a $60 game to have another $60+ of added content over the course of the game's lifespan. The DLC packages are often smaller amounts of optional content, but gamers can pick and choose what content they wish to pay for. Additionally, the more fluff that seems to be in the store, seemingly the more people are willing to throw cash at it.

That's the newer financial hook for gaming. Contractual subscription models are something that probably would have worked 5+ years ago, but now, not a chance. If a game company creates a game backed by quality, they will make money, plain and simple. Anyone else who feels the need to try some gimmick models, knows their game is utter shit and is attempting a cash grab (STO anyone?).

And if you follow free model MMO's once they go free the only thing that gets developed are the cash shops. I didn't say MMO's are heading in a direction of long term subscription promotion, I said they should. It's called stable funding and it's what an MMO needs to plot development cycles. I offered a suggestion. For some reason you didn't agree with it. That's ok. You don't need to.

I still think any MMO that intends to be more than a fad needs a stable finance plan and that requires stable, paid subscriptions. Keep monthly for casual people, keep a try before you buy or 'free' option but any MMO that has any intention of actually developing and polishing should be promoting its subscription. "They all went free to play". Banks were handing out loans to unemployed people 5 years ago too. Look how that worked out. The current cash shop model is not sustainable. Most people see it as a scam and most people never spend a dime.

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