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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » They turned a great sandbox genre into a Themepark.

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171 posts found
  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4852

4/05/13 4:17:01 AM#41
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by immodium

Easy.

A sandbox game should let me manipulate everything in the game. Lets take minecraft as an example of what a sandbox game is. Everything within that game can be used/manipulated by the player.

Now lets look at TES (using Skyrim).

There are trees all over the world. Can I cut any of them down? No. Well it's a sandbox is it not, why can't I?

The landscapes are also littered with animals. Can I kill them all? No. Can I breed them? No. Again, is this game a sandbox?

Can I manipulate waterflow to power a wheat mill and grind my own grain to make the finest bread in all of Tamriel? No. Yet there are water streams, mills and even grain within Skyrim. The NPC's can do it, why can't I?

Can I kill ALL npc's? No.

Can I build traps in forests to kill bandits? No.

I've only just scrathed the surfice. There are so many tools in Skyrim that can't be used in a variety of ways. The stupidest example of this in Skyrim is when you need a torch to burn down the hives just outside Riften. You can't burn anything else down with them. It's like all other barn buildings are immune. Probably been enchanted with fire resist or something.

It's just way to restrictive to be called a sandbox. It's just a non-linear themepark game. All the rides are there to enjoy, you can just enjoy them in any order you decide. Like a real themepark actually.

Also, a lot of themepark MMO's have better crafting than TES. I can't believe your talking about TES crafting in regard to leveling up. It's a PvE game. You leveled up in a below average crafting system and do what with it? Sell it to NPC's? Equip companions with it?

All those I highligten in green is exactly why I and many many many do not like sandbox games.  All that developmental time spent on things that in the grand scheme of things doesnt do anything other then to increase immersion.  Immersion is nice but sadly is overrated, I would much rather have proper systems in place that gave me direction and important decisions.  Those things listed are fluff and is not worthy of being developed in a serious game where more important systems has lasting appeal.

Thing is.. what he's asking for is not necessarily a game, but a life simulator. There's a reason why games like minecraft have such features but in a limited scope. If you like minecraft, that's fine, it's a fun game, but there are also severe technical & design limitations you take on by setting your game up in such a way. There's also pretty huge problems you run into when such a game becomes shared by 1000s of people.

Heck, when you look at all the commonly accepted sandboxes games ever made, minecraft is I think the only one that actually fully lives up to that idealized point of view. Terraria, Infiniminer, and dwarf fortress come close, but nearly every game has at least something you can't change as a player. All games are systems, and all systems have limitations. 

  Roin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/12/03
Posts: 2900

4/05/13 4:17:20 AM#42
Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Squeak69

which we already know can be made into an MMO.

people keep saying this but i kinda want to see some source info for it, cause i dont actully agree with it.

Oh, right...I forgot there are people that dont know about those things called sandbox games.

People dont know that there were faction based games that didnt have magical walls closing off faction lands...and I am not going to name them all because almost every single faction game ever made did not have DaoCs level of developer hand holding.

People dont know that there were games with factions, that allowed you to actually choose the faction AFTER creation and even allowed you to switch sides...like...SWG.

People dont know that there were games with a massive world that wasnt split into three closed off lands...like, ooh, almost every single other game ever made.

People dont know that an MMO can actually allow a player to train and level up any and ALL crafting...again, if you dont actually know that MMOs did this...I can see why you think the way you do...you dont know much about the genre.

You know the one thing I havent seen...someone actually make a long detailed list of how TES is not a sandbox game and that it fits into the themepark DaoC RvR where the entire world is at war yet is compeletely safe except in the magical world of neverland behind invisible walls.

Easy.

A sandbox game should let me manipulate everything in the game. Lets take minecraft as an example of what a sandbox game is. Everything within that game can be used/manipulated by the player.

Now lets look at TES (using Skyrim).

There are trees all over the world. Can I cut any of them down? No. Well it's a sandbox is it not, why can't I?

The landscapes are also littered with animals. Can I kill them all? No. Can I breed them? No. Again, is this game a sandbox?

Can I manipulate waterflow to power a wheat mill and grind my own grain to make the finest bread in all of Tamriel? No. Yet there are water streams, mills and even grain within Skyrim. The NPC's can do it, why can't I?

Can I kill ALL npc's? No.

Can I build traps in forests to kill bandits? No.

I've only just scrathed the surfice. There are so many tools in Skyrim that can't be used in a variety of ways. The stupidest example of this in Skyrim is when you need a torch to burn down the hives just outside Riften. You can't burn anything else down with them. It's like all other barn buildings are immune. Probably been enchanted with fire resist or something.

It's just way to restrictive to be called a sandbox. It's just a non-linear themepark game. All the rides are there to enjoy, you can just enjoy them in any order you decide. Like a real themepark actually.

Also, a lot of themepark MMO's have better crafting than TES. I can't believe your talking about TES crafting in regard to leveling up. It's a PvE game. You leveled up in a below average crafting system and do what with it? Sell it to NPC's? Equip companions with it?

 

Have to agree. Like the TES series as a whole, but it's more of a game with some sandbox elements, then a sandbox game. I know the hard core TES fans hate it, but I honestly in my humble opinion. Do not believe a straight conversion of Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim take your pick.  Into a MMO environment would work well. Take Skyrim for instance. It would be pretty disappointing to roll into town to find out you aren't the only Dragonborn... just one of many thousands.

In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.

  muffins89

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1255

4/05/13 4:27:18 AM#43
Originally posted by Topherpunch

I am a fan od Elder Scroll, so much that I must protest this game.  I am just going to post all the bad things that I think are very bad ideas. This is not a troll, just a "concerned gamers bad idea, thoughts" post....

 

Gaining skills and spells..... Not cool  -- you mean like in every other ES game?

Targeting..... Why are they ruining the FPS style? - it is fps style

 

What did you do to the old crafting system from Elder Scrolls? What is wrong with combining regular items to make weird combines? - crafting is supposidly just like previous ES games

 

 

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15983

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

4/05/13 4:28:30 AM#44
Originally posted by Roin
Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Squeak69

which we already know can be made into an MMO.

people keep saying this but i kinda want to see some source info for it, cause i dont actully agree with it.

Oh, right...I forgot there are people that dont know about those things called sandbox games.

People dont know that there were faction based games that didnt have magical walls closing off faction lands...and I am not going to name them all because almost every single faction game ever made did not have DaoCs level of developer hand holding.

People dont know that there were games with factions, that allowed you to actually choose the faction AFTER creation and even allowed you to switch sides...like...SWG.

People dont know that there were games with a massive world that wasnt split into three closed off lands...like, ooh, almost every single other game ever made.

People dont know that an MMO can actually allow a player to train and level up any and ALL crafting...again, if you dont actually know that MMOs did this...I can see why you think the way you do...you dont know much about the genre.

You know the one thing I havent seen...someone actually make a long detailed list of how TES is not a sandbox game and that it fits into the themepark DaoC RvR where the entire world is at war yet is compeletely safe except in the magical world of neverland behind invisible walls.

Easy.

A sandbox game should let me manipulate everything in the game. Lets take minecraft as an example of what a sandbox game is. Everything within that game can be used/manipulated by the player.

Now lets look at TES (using Skyrim).

There are trees all over the world. Can I cut any of them down? No. Well it's a sandbox is it not, why can't I?

The landscapes are also littered with animals. Can I kill them all? No. Can I breed them? No. Again, is this game a sandbox?

Can I manipulate waterflow to power a wheat mill and grind my own grain to make the finest bread in all of Tamriel? No. Yet there are water streams, mills and even grain within Skyrim. The NPC's can do it, why can't I?

Can I kill ALL npc's? No.

Can I build traps in forests to kill bandits? No.

I've only just scrathed the surfice. There are so many tools in Skyrim that can't be used in a variety of ways. The stupidest example of this in Skyrim is when you need a torch to burn down the hives just outside Riften. You can't burn anything else down with them. It's like all other barn buildings are immune. Probably been enchanted with fire resist or something.

It's just way to restrictive to be called a sandbox. It's just a non-linear themepark game. All the rides are there to enjoy, you can just enjoy them in any order you decide. Like a real themepark actually.

Also, a lot of themepark MMO's have better crafting than TES. I can't believe your talking about TES crafting in regard to leveling up. It's a PvE game. You leveled up in a below average crafting system and do what with it? Sell it to NPC's? Equip companions with it?

 

Have to agree. Like the TES series as a whole, but it's more of a game with some sandbox elements, then a sandbox game. I know the hard core TES fans hate it, but I honestly in my humble opinion. Do not believe a straight conversion of Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim take your pick.  Into a MMO environment would work well. Take Skyrim for instance. It would be pretty disappointing to roll into town to find out you aren't the only Dragonborn... just one of many thousands.

The real problem would be TES levels of freedom in regard to player actions, players being given the ability to muck up someones experience at their every whim, would not be well accepted by the mass of Casual MMo gamers ( which happens to be who they're shooting for as their core audience).  SOme "sandbox elements" could be used, as well as an open ended structure, but player theft, kill anyone and those types of things would have to be thrown out for commercial appeal.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Thandras

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 44

4/05/13 4:32:52 AM#45
Is this horse not dead enough yet? How many threads about this are there now anyway?
  muffins89

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1255

4/05/13 4:34:41 AM#46
Originally posted by tkreep
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by Topherpunch
I am a fan od Elder Scroll, so much that I must protest this game.  I am just going to post all the bad things that I think are very bad ideas. This is not a troll, just a "concerned gamers bad idea, thoughts" post....

 

Having one PvP area. While I know it is huge I just think putting players in a particular place to PvP is just silly.

One mega server, this is good if you were playing a game like EvE or Darkfall where there are no instaces.

Gaining skills and spells..... Not cool

Targeting..... Why are they ruining the FPS style?

Not able to join other faction area's until you reach maxed level (This could be a rumor) Why?

What did you do to the old crafting system from Elder Scrolls? What is wrong with combining regular items to make weird combines?

Zenimax.....

The root of all evil.....money. Why is Bethesda giving into corporate walkways? You could have created something amazing.

These are just some things I think they really messed up on. Personally I wish they would stop what they are doing and remake. Theme park is dead. I know some people really like themepark games, but  (this is an assumtion) I really think that is because they have not been given anything else. If Skyrim was an MMORPG with hundreds of people running around doing what they want and killing who they wanted...... There would be only one.


 

you simply don't know what a sandbox game is if you think ES is a sandbox.

ES is a quest driven game, a quest driven game is an exclusive themepark feature.

just because you could explore on your own and decide not to do the quests if you didn't want to, does not make it a sandbox.

also, if skyrim was made into a MMO and they didn't change anything, it would be a huge failure in terms of longevity.

it would basically be SWTOR v 2.0 except with no endgame at all.

 

He never said ES was a sandbox...

read the thread title...

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1405

4/05/13 4:34:54 AM#47
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by immodium

Easy.

A sandbox game should let me manipulate everything in the game. Lets take minecraft as an example of what a sandbox game is. Everything within that game can be used/manipulated by the player.

Now lets look at TES (using Skyrim).

There are trees all over the world. Can I cut any of them down? No. Well it's a sandbox is it not, why can't I?

The landscapes are also littered with animals. Can I kill them all? No. Can I breed them? No. Again, is this game a sandbox?

Can I manipulate waterflow to power a wheat mill and grind my own grain to make the finest bread in all of Tamriel? No. Yet there are water streams, mills and even grain within Skyrim. The NPC's can do it, why can't I?

Can I kill ALL npc's? No.

Can I build traps in forests to kill bandits? No.

I've only just scrathed the surfice. There are so many tools in Skyrim that can't be used in a variety of ways. The stupidest example of this in Skyrim is when you need a torch to burn down the hives just outside Riften. You can't burn anything else down with them. It's like all other barn buildings are immune. Probably been enchanted with fire resist or something.

It's just way to restrictive to be called a sandbox. It's just a non-linear themepark game. All the rides are there to enjoy, you can just enjoy them in any order you decide. Like a real themepark actually.

Also, a lot of themepark MMO's have better crafting than TES. I can't believe your talking about TES crafting in regard to leveling up. It's a PvE game. You leveled up in a below average crafting system and do what with it? Sell it to NPC's? Equip companions with it?

All those I highligten in green is exactly why I and many many many do not like sandbox games.  All that developmental time spent on things that in the grand scheme of things doesnt do anything other then to increase immersion.  Immersion is nice but sadly is overrated, I would much rather have proper systems in place that gave me direction and important decisions.  Those things listed are fluff and is not worthy of being developed in a serious game where more important systems has lasting appeal.

Thing is.. what he's asking for is not necessarily a game, but a life simulator. There's a reason why games like minecraft have such features but in a limited scope. If you like minecraft, that's fine, it's a fun game, but there are also severe technical & design limitations you take on by setting your game up in such a way. There's also pretty huge problems you run into when such a game becomes shared by 1000s of people.

Heck, when you look at all the commonly accepted sandboxes games ever made, minecraft is I think the only one that actually fully lives up to that idealized point of view. Terraria, Infiniminer, and dwarf fortress come close, but nearly every game has at least something you can't change as a player. All games are systems, and all systems have limitations. 

Rollercoaster/Transport Tycoon games, Themepark and Hospital. Are they not sandbox games? If TES games are classed as sandbox then most MMORPG's are. The only difference really is you can level all crafting professions and mobs level as you level making the world open from the start. That can't be the only difference.

  haibane

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 179

4/05/13 4:44:38 AM#48
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Topherpunch

Zenimax.....

The root of all evil.....money. Why is Bethesda giving into corporate walkways? You could have created something amazing.

FYI, the idea for the basis of this game, DaoC, was so bad that Bethesda swore it off. Zenimax Media is just clueless about the MMO genre and they are pinning their hopes that the snake oil salesmen they created Zenimax Online for knows what they are doing.

Im sure if someone had pointed out to them the difference between sandbox and themepark, and how the DaoC ride was only ridden by 250k people and that the IP with its millions of fans would be, tossed to the side with its design, they would have done what every other major studio did...said hell no to DaoC framework.

I think u have no clue at all on what u're talking about. DAOC has always been a great success, especially for the time !!! This was a game released way before WoW brought the world's bandwagon into the MMORPG genre. Many games tried to emulate DAOC but failed (like WAR for example, GW2's doing the same with the 3 servers wvwvw). So, no, emulating DAOC wouldn't be a bad thing actually, if it's correctly done.

Now, i have absolutely no hope on TES online, i think it'll be another SW:TOR and i hope that Bethesda will wake up and go back to making good games asap.

You're a Hardcore Survivor!

You not only survived the zombie apocalypse, but did it with style! Your mastery of zombie knowledge, survival tactics, and weaponry is nearly unmatched. Congratulations, for you are hardcore!

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

4/05/13 4:54:01 AM#49
Originally posted by Topherpunch

I am a fan od Elder Scroll, so much that I must protest this game.  I am just going to post all the bad things that I think are very bad ideas. This is not a troll, just a "concerned gamers bad idea, thoughts" post....

Having one PvP area. While I know it is huge I just think putting players in a particular place to PvP is just silly.

One mega server, this is good if you were playing a game like EvE or Darkfall where there are no instaces.

Gaining skills and spells..... Not cool

Targeting..... Why are they ruining the FPS style?

Not able to join other faction area's until you reach maxed level (This could be a rumor) Why?

What did you do to the old crafting system from Elder Scrolls? What is wrong with combining regular items to make weird combines?

Zenimax.....

The root of all evil.....money. Why is Bethesda giving into corporate walkways? You could have created something amazing.

These are just some things I think they really messed up on. Personally I wish they would stop what they are doing and remake. Theme park is dead. I know some people really like themepark games, but  (this is an assumtion) I really think that is because they have not been given anything else. If Skyrim was an MMORPG with hundreds of people running around doing what they want and killing who they wanted...... There would be only one.

The root of all evil sentence says it all, thats why and they could indeed have made a amazing game but they did not.

But now is question do you still buy it or not with this knowledge?

I won't buy it for me its not realy a traditional ELDER SCROLL game its just another themepark as we already hundreds out there.

 

What puzzles me is you sell 15milllion copys of Skyrim already oblivion and morrowind where so praised games why make a mediocre themepark is beyond me only reason i can think is indeed MONEY thats wrong movtive for such a good and popular IP to go downhill bah:(

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3712

4/05/13 8:14:42 AM#50
TES was not a sandpark game. I am starting to think that to many people here have no clue what a sandbgame is. To be sandbox you would need to be able to build and change the world. How could you do that in TES? You dont even get to write your own story. The only thing thats even a little bit sandbox in the game is the freedom to make any class you want and ESO has that in the game. TES is 99.9999% themepark.
  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1968

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

4/05/13 8:24:03 AM#51

you guys sound like ossis (east germans before the fall of the wall), who talkes about the great western car, and then go and bought a manta, because that is the rebel car!

 

seriously, maybe play a sandbox game before you guys post about one next time.

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  amalmer1

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/13
Posts: 6

4/05/13 8:32:10 AM#52
TES are not sandbox games.  Minecraft is a sandbox game.  As far as complaining about the changing of crafting, while you can make awesome stuff in Skyrim, there is nothing exciting about the crafting system.  Targeting is probably to help with lag.  Not everything about a MMO can be exactly like a single player game.  If you have skyrim on PC the mod community will hopefully be able to keep you happy until the next single player game comes out.
  Squeak69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 972

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

4/05/13 10:37:30 AM#53
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
TES was not a sandpark game. I am starting to think that to many people here have no clue what a sandbgame is. To be sandbox you would need to be able to build and change the world. How could you do that in TES? You dont even get to write your own story. The only thing thats even a little bit sandbox in the game is the freedom to make any class you want and ESO has that in the game. TES is 99.9999% themepark.

i agree with nanfodle on smething??? *looks outside to makesure the world is still there,.

any way silliness aside i agree with this, and this is why i disagree that themeparks are dead games people are forgetting all the great one out there and only looking at the ones they dont like.

iv said it before but ill say it agian

in my opion sandbox games are games where you can manipulate the world, build in it, and adjust it.

haveing a game where you can not adjust the envirment and dont have quest , and then are told its up to you to make your quests and story. are not sandbox

games where the econamy is based mainly on players is not a sandbox ( or are we going to start calling WoW a sandbox)

games that have nothing in them story, depth, or things to do wise, and have no building aspect to it are not sandbox.

in my opion these are games that use the title of sandbox to make life easyier on them cause they dont actually have to make content for the game.

and dont tell me oh they have to make the tools to use, cause i hate to tell you this but the first thing most MMO Devs do is make those said tool for themselves.

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  ThomasN7

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6672

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

4/05/13 10:44:34 AM#54
I will not be buying this because this is hardly what an Elder Scrolls game should be. This is something just to milk a popular ip. No thanks I'll keep playing Skyrim and waiting for Bethesda's next installment of Elder Scrolls.
  User Deleted
4/05/13 10:54:17 AM#55
Originally posted by amalmer1
TES are not sandbox games.  Minecraft is a sandbox game.  As far as complaining about the changing of crafting, while you can make awesome stuff in Skyrim, there is nothing exciting about the crafting system.  Targeting is probably to help with lag.  Not everything about a MMO can be exactly like a single player game.  If you have skyrim on PC the mod community will hopefully be able to keep you happy until the next single player game comes out.

Compare Daggerfall to other games back then when it was released ,it was grazy sandbox back then,same goes to Morrowind ,Oblivion not that much ,Skyrim ,compared to ohers is another sandbox.

now,first online ES,in my books it should continue same tradition,it should be more sandboxy than Skyrim or daggerfall and more sandboxy than nobody ever seen before in online gaming.

but how it seems to be right now,when reading about their ideas,its going to be ripped online game ,without even features that were introduced 10 years ago,

 

  Squeak69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 972

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

4/05/13 10:59:34 AM#56
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by amalmer1
TES are not sandbox games.  Minecraft is a sandbox game.  As far as complaining about the changing of crafting, while you can make awesome stuff in Skyrim, there is nothing exciting about the crafting system.  Targeting is probably to help with lag.  Not everything about a MMO can be exactly like a single player game.  If you have skyrim on PC the mod community will hopefully be able to keep you happy until the next single player game comes out.

Compare Daggerfall to other games back then when it was released ,it was grazy sandbox back then,same goes to Morrowind ,Oblivion not that much ,Skyrim ,compared to ohers is another sandbox.

now,first online ES,in my books it should continue same tradition,it should be more sandboxy than Skyrim or daggerfall and more sandboxy than nobody ever seen before in online gaming.

but how it seems to be right now,when reading about their ideas,its going to be ripped online game ,without even features that were introduced 10 years ago,

 

then it still would not be true to the TES games, but i get the impression that unless it plays exactly like TES games always have then people wont be happy. which i still dont think would have transfered well to a MMO game.

also what exactly was sandboxy about daggerfall????

i really wish people would stop confuseing open world with sandbox, heck the term sandbox didnt even exist back when daggerfall came out, not to mention arena, which wasnt even a true open world game.

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  Excession

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/16/06
Posts: 366

Political correctness is tyranny with manners

4/05/13 11:05:09 AM#57
Originally posted by Topherpunch

I am a fan od Elder Scroll, so much that I must protest this game.  I am just going to post all the bad things that I think are very bad ideas. This is not a troll, just a "concerned gamers bad idea, thoughts" post....

Having one PvP area. While I know it is huge I just think putting players in a particular place to PvP is just silly.

One mega server, this is good if you were playing a game like EvE or Darkfall where there are no instaces.

Gaining skills and spells..... Not cool

Targeting..... Why are they ruining the FPS style?

Not able to join other faction area's until you reach maxed level (This could be a rumor) Why?

What did you do to the old crafting system from Elder Scrolls? What is wrong with combining regular items to make weird combines?

Zenimax.....

The root of all evil.....money. Why is Bethesda giving into corporate walkways? You could have created something amazing.

These are just some things I think they really messed up on. Personally I wish they would stop what they are doing and remake. Theme park is dead. I know some people really like themepark games, but  (this is an assumtion) I really think that is because they have not been given anything else. If Skyrim was an MMORPG with hundreds of people running around doing what they want and killing who they wanted...... There would be only one.

Had to highlight part of your post.

If Skyrim was an MMO, and if it had hundreds of players running round doing what they wanted and killing who they wanted, there would be nothing to do but explore.

Every NPC in the game would be killed, there would be no quests, it would turn into an MMO version of deathmatch, and most players would hate it.

Skyrim works, and is great fun, because it is a single player RPG, just like the previous TES games.

So ESO is not the MMO equivalent of Skyrim (or any previous TES game), that does not automatically mean it is bad.

A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.

  User Deleted
4/05/13 11:06:32 AM#58
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by amalmer1
TES are not sandbox games.  Minecraft is a sandbox game.  As far as complaining about the changing of crafting, while you can make awesome stuff in Skyrim, there is nothing exciting about the crafting system.  Targeting is probably to help with lag.  Not everything about a MMO can be exactly like a single player game.  If you have skyrim on PC the mod community will hopefully be able to keep you happy until the next single player game comes out.

Compare Daggerfall to other games back then when it was released ,it was grazy sandbox back then,same goes to Morrowind ,Oblivion not that much ,Skyrim ,compared to ohers is another sandbox.

now,first online ES,in my books it should continue same tradition,it should be more sandboxy than Skyrim or daggerfall and more sandboxy than nobody ever seen before in online gaming.

but how it seems to be right now,when reading about their ideas,its going to be ripped online game ,without even features that were introduced 10 years ago,

 

then it still would not be true to the TES games, but i get the impression that unless it plays exactly like TES games always have then people wont be happy. which i still dont think would have transfered well to a MMO game.

also what exactly was sandboxy about daggerfall????

i really wish people would stop confuseing open world with sandbox, heck the term sandbox didnt even exist back when daggerfall came out, not to mention arena, which wasnt even a true open world game.

That is the problem in here,after few years even minecraft is last season and not so sandboxy anymore.

there will be features in games that we cant now even imagine right now,just like Daggerfall did back then.

huge world to explore back then was amazing thing,im not going to fine details but it was grazy like Captive or even Elite.

 

  Squeak69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 972

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

4/05/13 11:19:16 AM#59
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by amalmer1
TES are not sandbox games.  Minecraft is a sandbox game.  As far as complaining about the changing of crafting, while you can make awesome stuff in Skyrim, there is nothing exciting about the crafting system.  Targeting is probably to help with lag.  Not everything about a MMO can be exactly like a single player game.  If you have skyrim on PC the mod community will hopefully be able to keep you happy until the next single player game comes out.

Compare Daggerfall to other games back then when it was released ,it was grazy sandbox back then,same goes to Morrowind ,Oblivion not that much ,Skyrim ,compared to ohers is another sandbox.

now,first online ES,in my books it should continue same tradition,it should be more sandboxy than Skyrim or daggerfall and more sandboxy than nobody ever seen before in online gaming.

but how it seems to be right now,when reading about their ideas,its going to be ripped online game ,without even features that were introduced 10 years ago,

 

then it still would not be true to the TES games, but i get the impression that unless it plays exactly like TES games always have then people wont be happy. which i still dont think would have transfered well to a MMO game.

also what exactly was sandboxy about daggerfall????

i really wish people would stop confuseing open world with sandbox, heck the term sandbox didnt even exist back when daggerfall came out, not to mention arena, which wasnt even a true open world game.

That is the problem in here,after few years even minecraft is last season and not so sandboxy anymore.

there will be features in games that we cant now even imagine right now,just like Daggerfall did back then.

huge world to explore back then was amazing thing,im not going to fine details but it was grazy like Captive or even Elite.

 

daggerfall kind of cheated, it wasnt pregenerated open world it had a grid num system that had dungeon entrance and towns, everything else was randomly generated, in the open world, same with dungeon exept for a few certain ones they where mostly randomly generated, this is why it was one of the first games of its generation to have a open world the way it did, not that it was bad it just cheated :p.

also to this day it was the only TES game that let you go to everypart of the empire.

well until TESO comes out.

P.S. i still play on a minecraft server and luv it

P.S.S. dagger fall was also the last game you could become a wereboar in, i kinda miss that.

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4889

4/05/13 11:22:10 AM#60
Originally posted by Byrhofen
Originally posted by Topherpunch

I am a fan od Elder Scroll, so much that I must protest this game.  I am just going to post all the bad things that I think are very bad ideas. This is not a troll, just a "concerned gamers bad idea, thoughts" post....

Having one PvP area. While I know it is huge I just think putting players in a particular place to PvP is just silly.

One mega server, this is good if you were playing a game like EvE or Darkfall where there are no instaces.

Gaining skills and spells..... Not cool

Targeting..... Why are they ruining the FPS style?

Not able to join other faction area's until you reach maxed level (This could be a rumor) Why?

What did you do to the old crafting system from Elder Scrolls? What is wrong with combining regular items to make weird combines?

Zenimax.....

The root of all evil.....money. Why is Bethesda giving into corporate walkways? You could have created something amazing.

These are just some things I think they really messed up on. Personally I wish they would stop what they are doing and remake. Theme park is dead. I know some people really like themepark games, but  (this is an assumtion) I really think that is because they have not been given anything else. If Skyrim was an MMORPG with hundreds of people running around doing what they want and killing who they wanted...... There would be only one.

Had to highlight part of your post.

If Skyrim was an MMO, and if it had hundreds of players running round doing what they wanted and killing who they wanted, there would be nothing to do but explore.

Every NPC in the game would be killed, there would be no quests, it would turn into an MMO version of deathmatch, and most players would hate it.

Skyrim works, and is great fun, because it is a single player RPG, just like the previous TES games.

So ESO is not the MMO equivalent of Skyrim (or any previous TES game), that does not automatically mean it is bad.

Heres the problem for me at least. Using the Elder Scrolls IP those not interested in the IP are going to write off the game automatically and those interested in the IP are going to expect a game at the very least in the spirit of previous TES games. What we have here is a game that is far to focused on bringing in non TES fans (Namely MMO fans) that are going to simply avoid it anyways due to the IP. Many TES fans are going to buy the game for the IP and hope that it doesn't stray to far from the spirit of the game. 

 

In the end I get the feeling that this is a game thats going to do very well with initial sales due to the IP alone and then quickly dwindle due to failing to appeal to its player base. 

 

When using widely popular IPs you are responsible for delivering something at least in the spirit of that IP. For me TESO is akin to writing a new Harry Potter book and making it a scifi instead. Its not a bad thing to try to get a larger fan base, but with  something as established as this its hard to appeal to a different fan base all together and you increases risk of failure by trying to so there is no need to push aside your current fan base. 

 

I guess I just don't understand, maybe its beyond me to understand. Making an MMO based off of The Edler Scrolls should be a sure thing as long as they at least stay true to the spirit of the IP. I don't understand taking such a gamble as this. To me it would seem harder to sale DAoC to Elder Scroll fans than to sale an Elder Scrolls game. 

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