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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Armor and Equipment design style (Horned helmets, spikey pauldrons, etc).

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29 posts found
  Stiler

Elite Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 592

 
OP  4/04/13 4:37:59 PM#1

Tried to search about this (I remember a topic on armour design a while back) but it seems search isn't working? (It turns up 0 results reagrdless of what you put in it, even putting in "camelot" brought back 0 results, for sub/titles.

In many of the concept art pieces that have been released  from the kickstarter it seems the armour design is leaning heavily toward "Horned/crested" helmets and spikey/large pauldrons, especially in regards to the Tuatha it seems (at least that's the realm I'm assuming since it mentions them in the update) 

IE:

 

I am hoping that there are good alternatives to these overall designs. While I understand some people like that style, simialr to WoW with their big pauldrons and such, I hope with the player crafted gear we can have good alternatives available to each realm. The Albs (going from the "Races of Camelot) picture looks to be one that has a more streamline/realistic design of equipment. 

I'm not saying get rid of it or anything, just please offer people good different choices through crafting to not get stuck into that style, like WoW and other mmo's have done. I'd much rather see armour (for all 3 realms) that looks more believable in design for battle. That's just my personal prefrence, and I understand others can have a different opinion, that's why I'm just asking for the option to have a good different look if we play as a Tuatha or Viking, etc not to get stuck in large spikey pauldrons/horned/crested helmets galore..

  KappenWiz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/06/07
Posts: 163

4/04/13 4:45:51 PM#2

One thing to remember about concept art is it's, well, conceptual and emotive. Usually, very little, if any makes it to the final product. They're trying to get a feel for races, classes, etc and discover directions for characters and stuff. So, it usually starts out pretty far out, like concept cars, to spark ideas and free up imagination,  but ends up toned down.

Also, in that top pic, the horns look like they're on the character, not necessarily the helm...lol, not trying to scare you any more.

The overall direction seems to be pointing to the dragons holding sway. The cloaks and helms seem to evoke the wings and talons a lot, so maybe after the veil is pierced, the dragons are the ultimate gods for each realm. Who knows.

 

  jmcdermottuk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 764

4/04/13 4:48:17 PM#3

I hate spikey armour, it's idiotic. I really hope it has a more realistic look. Armour is designed to guide strikes away from vulnerable points and protect the wearer. It's meant to deflect a strike, not help it hit with full force.

All spikes do is trap a weapon and guide it into the armour, possibly at some very vulnerable areas. Exactly the opposite of what it's meant to be doing.

And all those horned Viking helmets.. myth. They weren't that different in design to the Saxon ones. Also in the time frame we're looking at there was no plate armour. That didn't arrive until the late middle ages, 13th century.

I know it's a game and it's all a bit of fun but please, at least try and be semi realistic.

  Raagnarz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/13/12
Posts: 185

4/04/13 4:56:27 PM#4
Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

I hate spikey armour, it's idiotic. I really hope it has a more realistic look. Armour is designed to guide strikes away from vulnerable points and protect the wearer. It's meant to deflect a strike, not help it hit with full force.

All spikes do is trap a weapon and guide it into the armour, possibly at some very vulnerable areas. Exactly the opposite of what it's meant to be doing.

And all those horned Viking helmets.. myth. They weren't that different in design to the Saxon ones. Also in the time frame we're looking at there was no plate armour. That didn't arrive until the late middle ages, 13th century.

I know it's a game and it's all a bit of fun but please, at least try and be semi realistic.

Its a game and its got dragons and potentially "fantasy" inspired races. There is no "time frame" of the game as it relates to our earthen history. Its taking some references to our old school lore of 3 cultures and twisting it after a cataclysm level event. Its throwing magic into the mix on top of that. So the armor and looks of the races can be wild or as tame as they want it to be. But no reason to stress that it HAS to be realistic to a time period...that never existed since this is a fantasy game.

  skyexile

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 701

4/04/13 4:59:16 PM#5

not having plate armour would be a crime, the SKYeXile demands it.

SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  jmcdermottuk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 764

4/04/13 5:05:02 PM#6
Originally posted by Raagnarz
Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

I hate spikey armour, it's idiotic. I really hope it has a more realistic look. Armour is designed to guide strikes away from vulnerable points and protect the wearer. It's meant to deflect a strike, not help it hit with full force.

All spikes do is trap a weapon and guide it into the armour, possibly at some very vulnerable areas. Exactly the opposite of what it's meant to be doing.

And all those horned Viking helmets.. myth. They weren't that different in design to the Saxon ones. Also in the time frame we're looking at there was no plate armour. That didn't arrive until the late middle ages, 13th century.

I know it's a game and it's all a bit of fun but please, at least try and be semi realistic.

Its a game and its got dragons and potentially "fantasy" inspired races. There is no "time frame" of the game as it relates to our earthen history. Its taking some references to our old school lore of 3 cultures and twisting it after a cataclysm level event. Its throwing magic into the mix on top of that. So the armor and looks of the races can be wild or as tame as they want it to be. But no reason to stress that it HAS to be realistic to a time period...that never existed since this is a fantasy game.

I understand that, I did say it's a game and a bit of fun but the OP wanted us to express our opinions. Mine is that I hate spikey armour. I don't care how high the fantasy is, how much magic is in the game, or when it's set in history. Spikey armour is just dumb in my opinion.

It's just an opinion. If you like spikey armour that's up to you, I don't. I like a more realistic look. I'm not attacking the game or it's developers if that's the way they go, It's just not my preferrence.

If you read the original post the OP is basically saying the same thing. I happen to agree with him.

  MarkJacobs

CEO City State Entertainment

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 405

4/04/13 5:13:14 PM#7

Originally posted by kappenwiz

One thing to remember about concept art is it's, well, conceptual and emotive. Usually, very little, if any makes it to the final product. They're trying to get a feel for races, classes, etc and discover directions for characters and stuff. So, it usually starts out pretty far out, like concept cars, to spark ideas and free up imagination,  but ends up toned down.

Also, in that top pic, the horns look like they're on the character, not necessarily the helm...lol, not trying to scare you any more.

The overall direction seems to be pointing to the dragons holding sway. The cloaks and helms seem to evoke the wings and talons a lot, so maybe after the veil is pierced, the dragons are the ultimate gods for each realm. Who knows.

 

On the character.... :)

Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

Originally posted by Raagnarz
Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

I hate spikey armour, it's idiotic. I really hope it has a more realistic look. Armour is designed to guide strikes away from vulnerable points and protect the wearer. It's meant to deflect a strike, not help it hit with full force.

All spikes do is trap a weapon and guide it into the armour, possibly at some very vulnerable areas. Exactly the opposite of what it's meant to be doing.

And all those horned Viking helmets.. myth. They weren't that different in design to the Saxon ones. Also in the time frame we're looking at there was no plate armour. That didn't arrive until the late middle ages, 13th century.

I know it's a game and it's all a bit of fun but please, at least try and be semi realistic.

Its a game and its got dragons and potentially "fantasy" inspired races. There is no "time frame" of the game as it relates to our earthen history. Its taking some references to our old school lore of 3 cultures and twisting it after a cataclysm level event. Its throwing magic into the mix on top of that. So the armor and looks of the races can be wild or as tame as they want it to be. But no reason to stress that it HAS to be realistic to a time period...that never existed since this is a fantasy game.

I understand that, I did say it's a game and a bit of fun but the OP wanted us to express our opinions. Mine is that I hate spikey armour. I don't care how high the fantasy is, how much magic is in the game, or when it's set in history. Spikey armour is just dumb in my opinion.

It's just an opinion. If you like spikey armour that's up to you, I don't. I like a more realistic look. I'm not attacking the game or it's developers if that's the way they go, It's just not my preferrence.

If you read the original post the OP is basically saying the same thing. I happen to agree with him.

It's a perfectly fine opinion, no attack detected by me. 

It is of course concept art and we have tons of it, the vast majority of it won't ever see the light of day other than in updates like these. I gave our artists a few basic concepts and then I let them have fun with them for quite a while before I'll even look at them again. Sometimes they go off in directions that work out well, sometimes they don't but I always want them to try different style/ideas/etc. before I have any additional input. 

FYI, I hate spikey, WoW-like armor too but as per above, I think that artists need room to express themselves creatively and come up with lots of different ideas early on without me or anyone else saying "This must be the path we follow!" at this stage of a game's development.

Edit: There will be no Viking helmets of the type you mentioned in an earlier post. 

Mark

P.S. Sorry I have been here in a bit, it's been quite a few interesting days.

Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment

  naezgul

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 389

4/04/13 5:38:00 PM#8

Let em make ceremonial type armor.....if its worn on the battlefield you take penalties.....

personally I hate it and think if it is too be made it is one of the last things done....or added after release

  Qallidexz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/12
Posts: 269

4/04/13 5:45:47 PM#9
Originally posted by MarkJacobs

Originally posted by kappenwiz

One thing to remember about concept art is it's, well, conceptual and emotive. Usually, very little, if any makes it to the final product. They're trying to get a feel for races, classes, etc and discover directions for characters and stuff. So, it usually starts out pretty far out, like concept cars, to spark ideas and free up imagination,  but ends up toned down.

Also, in that top pic, the horns look like they're on the character, not necessarily the helm...lol, not trying to scare you any more.

The overall direction seems to be pointing to the dragons holding sway. The cloaks and helms seem to evoke the wings and talons a lot, so maybe after the veil is pierced, the dragons are the ultimate gods for each realm. Who knows.

 

On the character.... :)

 

 

The horns are on the characters, interesting. I noticed these are TDD's, and while I hate giving WoW comparisons, and generally don't like WoW, I noticed they almost look like the Satyrs do in that game. Interesting choice for the TDD's to look sort of "demon-like" in nature. Is there a reason for this, and can we expect TDD's to have kind of "demon" theme upon release?

  Corinthian-X

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 87

4/04/13 5:51:40 PM#10
Originally posted by Qallidexz
Interesting choice for the TDD's to look sort of "demon-like" in nature. Is there a reason for this, and can we expect TDD's to have kind of "demon" theme upon release?

Yes, it should contrast nicely with the Arthurian Emo Knight and Viking Outlaw biker themes.

 

;)

  MarkJacobs

CEO City State Entertainment

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 405

4/04/13 5:54:21 PM#11
Originally posted by Qallidexz
Originally posted by MarkJacobs

Originally posted by kappenwiz

One thing to remember about concept art is it's, well, conceptual and emotive. Usually, very little, if any makes it to the final product. They're trying to get a feel for races, classes, etc and discover directions for characters and stuff. So, it usually starts out pretty far out, like concept cars, to spark ideas and free up imagination,  but ends up toned down.

Also, in that top pic, the horns look like they're on the character, not necessarily the helm...lol, not trying to scare you any more.

The overall direction seems to be pointing to the dragons holding sway. The cloaks and helms seem to evoke the wings and talons a lot, so maybe after the veil is pierced, the dragons are the ultimate gods for each realm. Who knows.

 

On the character.... :)

 

 

The horns are on the characters, interesting. I noticed these are TDD's, and while I hate giving WoW comparisons, and generally don't like WoW, I noticed they almost look like the Satyrs do in that game. Interesting choice for the TDD's to look sort of "demon-like" in nature. Is there a reason for this, and can we expect TDD's to have kind of "demon" theme upon release?

There's a reason but they are not demonic and this is just one possible races in its early stages of development. :)

Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment

  Qallidexz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/12
Posts: 269

4/04/13 5:57:44 PM#12
ahh, ok, cool. Thanks for the reply. :)
  tinuelle

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 290

It's all about pushing the right buttons

4/04/13 5:59:38 PM#13
Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

I hate spikey armour, it's idiotic. I really hope it has a more realistic look. Armour is designed to guide strikes away from vulnerable points and protect the wearer. It's meant to deflect a strike, not help it hit with full force.

All spikes do is trap a weapon and guide it into the armour, possibly at some very vulnerable areas. Exactly the opposite of what it's meant to be doing.

And all those horned Viking helmets.. myth. They weren't that different in design to the Saxon ones. Also in the time frame we're looking at there was no plate armour. That didn't arrive until the late middle ages, 13th century.

I know it's a game and it's all a bit of fun but please, at least try and be semi realistic.

Unless the spiked armor is the weapon.

"You below out your challenges as you charge towards your cravenly foe.

You crash into your foe with a magnificent crunch of bones and armor."

 

Now that is what a spiked armor is all about. Its not fancy, its just nasty and scary, and should be avoided if heading your way.

  Qallidexz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/12
Posts: 269

4/04/13 6:03:33 PM#14
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
Originally posted by Qallidexz
Originally posted by MarkJacobs

Originally posted by kappenwiz

One thing to remember about concept art is it's, well, conceptual and emotive. Usually, very little, if any makes it to the final product. They're trying to get a feel for races, classes, etc and discover directions for characters and stuff. So, it usually starts out pretty far out, like concept cars, to spark ideas and free up imagination,  but ends up toned down.

Also, in that top pic, the horns look like they're on the character, not necessarily the helm...lol, not trying to scare you any more.

The overall direction seems to be pointing to the dragons holding sway. The cloaks and helms seem to evoke the wings and talons a lot, so maybe after the veil is pierced, the dragons are the ultimate gods for each realm. Who knows.

 

On the character.... :)

 

 

The horns are on the characters, interesting. I noticed these are TDD's, and while I hate giving WoW comparisons, and generally don't like WoW, I noticed they almost look like the Satyrs do in that game. Interesting choice for the TDD's to look sort of "demon-like" in nature. Is there a reason for this, and can we expect TDD's to have kind of "demon" theme upon release?

There's a reason but they are not demonic and this is just one possible races in its early stages of development. :)

 

P.S: This is the picture that got me thinkin along the "demonic-theme" lines:

 

  taurak

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/01/04
Posts: 174

4/04/13 6:05:49 PM#15

I have to say personally, that I like the spikey armor.

 

I know it doesn't really fit in with traditional "viking" history, BUT this is not typical viking history, this is an alternate path.

 

Vikings were very savage warriors, and given the opportunity, skill and knowledge I VERY HIGHLY believe they would have put as many spikes on their armor as possible, and also very likely human skulls as well!! I also know this is the TDD race we're talking about but given what happened to the world as far as lore is seemingly headed in a very new direction, which I love by the way, these races could, and surely did gain some knowedge of new things from experiencing the apocalypse.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing some savagery in the artistic style, heads on pikes by the gates of villiages and things like that!! This is WAR!! (not warhammer lol)

  Lawtoween

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/13
Posts: 104

4/04/13 6:22:16 PM#16
Originally posted by taurak

I have to say personally, that I like the spikey armor.

 

I know it doesn't really fit in with traditional "viking" history, BUT this is not typical viking history, this is an alternate path.

 

Vikings were very savage warriors, and given the opportunity, skill and knowledge I VERY HIGHLY believe they would have put as many spikes on their armor as possible, and also very likely human skulls as well!! I also know this is the TDD race we're talking about but given what happened to the world as far as lore is seemingly headed in a very new direction, which I love by the way, these races could, and surely did gain some knowedge of new things from experiencing the apocalypse.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing some savagery in the artistic style, heads on pikes by the gates of villiages and things like that!! This is WAR!! (not warhammer lol)

Are you suggesting that the vikings of real history would not have had "the opportunity, skill and knowledge" required to put spikes and human skulls on their armor?  Indeed, as a previous poster pointed out, their knowledge and skill would have certainly prevented them from taking the opportunity to put spikes on their armor. 

As for human skulls, I think other materials make far better force dampers without creating the shrapnel and gory vision blocking mess that would result when the enemy smashed one on your body.  On pikes outside your keep and along roads as a warning to others, now that's something I can see happening.  Although I'm not sure I want to see it in this game (very often).

  Corinthian-X

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 87

4/04/13 6:25:26 PM#17
Originally posted by Lawtoween

As for human skulls, I think other materials make far better force dampers without creating the shrapnel and gory vision blocking mess that would result when the enemy smashed one on your body.  On pikes outside your keep and along roads as a warning to others, now that's something I can see happening.  Although I'm not sure I want to see it in this game (very often).

I could definitely see myself mounting some TDD antlers on the wall in my home.

  KappenWiz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/06/07
Posts: 163

4/04/13 6:27:26 PM#18
Originally posted by Qallidexz
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
Originally posted by Qallidexz
Originally posted by MarkJacobs

Originally posted by kappenwiz

One thing to remember about concept art is it's, well, conceptual and emotive. Usually, very little, if any makes it to the final product. They're trying to get a feel for races, classes, etc and discover directions for characters and stuff. So, it usually starts out pretty far out, like concept cars, to spark ideas and free up imagination,  but ends up toned down.

Also, in that top pic, the horns look like they're on the character, not necessarily the helm...lol, not trying to scare you any more.

The overall direction seems to be pointing to the dragons holding sway. The cloaks and helms seem to evoke the wings and talons a lot, so maybe after the veil is pierced, the dragons are the ultimate gods for each realm. Who knows.

 

On the character.... :)

 

 

The horns are on the characters, interesting. I noticed these are TDD's, and while I hate giving WoW comparisons, and generally don't like WoW, I noticed they almost look like the Satyrs do in that game. Interesting choice for the TDD's to look sort of "demon-like" in nature. Is there a reason for this, and can we expect TDD's to have kind of "demon" theme upon release?

There's a reason but they are not demonic and this is just one possible races in its early stages of development. :)

 

P.S: This is the picture that got me thinkin along the "demonic-theme" lines:

 

 

Woo! Almost as sexy as the Darkness Falls succubi, who I was forced to report to CSRs on various occasions after getting this emote:

The Succubus gives you a dirty look!

Rawr...but I was there to play a game.

 

  aRtFuLThinG

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1000

4/04/13 6:32:08 PM#19
Originally posted by Lawtoween
Originally posted by taurak

I have to say personally, that I like the spikey armor.

 

I know it doesn't really fit in with traditional "viking" history, BUT this is not typical viking history, this is an alternate path.

 

Vikings were very savage warriors, and given the opportunity, skill and knowledge I VERY HIGHLY believe they would have put as many spikes on their armor as possible, and also very likely human skulls as well!! I also know this is the TDD race we're talking about but given what happened to the world as far as lore is seemingly headed in a very new direction, which I love by the way, these races could, and surely did gain some knowedge of new things from experiencing the apocalypse.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing some savagery in the artistic style, heads on pikes by the gates of villiages and things like that!! This is WAR!! (not warhammer lol)

Are you suggesting that the vikings of real history would not have had "the opportunity, skill and knowledge" required to put spikes and human skulls on their armor?  Indeed, as a previous poster pointed out, their knowledge and skill would have certainly prevented them from taking the opportunity to put spikes on their armor. 

As for human skulls, I think other materials make far better force dampers without creating the shrapnel and gory vision blocking mess that would result when the enemy smashed one on your body.  On pikes outside your keep and along roads as a warning to others, now that's something I can see happening.  Although I'm not sure I want to see it in this game (very often).

 Viking of real history don't have horns and spikes on their armor.

In fact most don't wear armor at all.

Armors were expensive, usually only the Thanes and Jarls can afford them.

Also, horns and spikes are impractical in real combat - you are more likely to pinch yourself than the opponent. That's why none of the real dark age armors actually have spikes. It has nothing to do with skills or savagery. Only armor that weren't actually being used in real-life have useless decorations and spikes, ie. display armor. Vikings are no more savage than Angle-Saxons or Celts or Romans - they are all mostly farmers in peacetime.

If you want to see what realistic vikings look like, watch the TV series Vikings on History Channel.

  Sornin

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/07
Posts: 1138

Too weird to live, and too rare to die

4/04/13 6:34:47 PM#20
I am a huge fan of the concept art posted so far. It strikes a balance between realistic and stylized, and is dark and gritty, almost ominous. It also blends Western and Eastern styles quite well. If this translates to the game, we will be in for a treat!

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