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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Why do they have race limited factions?

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228 posts found
  Sideras

Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/04
Posts: 236

4/02/13 9:24:16 PM#81

If you people would just learn to understand that this is a spin off taking place 1000 or years before the Elder Scrolls you know, then you too would be able to deal with it.

I wanted to play as an Imperial, can I? No, because they are the antagonists sort of seeing as how their emperor has sided with Mannimarco who in turn has struck a deal with Molag Bal.

The only thing you should take for granted is that TESO takes place in Tamriel. The rest of it is a whole different game, although I hear it's got a pretty good TES feel to it.

  Sentnl

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/13
Posts: 79

4/02/13 9:33:01 PM#82
Originally posted by Sideras

If you people would just learn to understand that this is a spin off taking place 1000 or years before the Elder Scrolls you know, then you too would be able to deal with it.

I wanted to play as an Imperial, can I? No, because they are the antagonists sort of seeing as how their emperor has sided with Mannimarco who in turn has struck a deal with Molag Bal.

The only thing you should take for granted is that TESO takes place in Tamriel. The rest of it is a whole different game, although I hear it's got a pretty good TES feel to it.

No, they dont understand that. They just played skyrim and are now experts.

God forbid they go back to the roots of ES and compare it to what it is today, god forbid there are ANY changes in that long process...

I can't wait for the Cryodiil tears when they get beat by other players "IM NOT SUPPOSE TO LOSE, IM THE HERO!, MY RACE IS SUPERIOR!"

Three factions is perfect, its dramatic.

I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

4/02/13 9:38:32 PM#83
Originally posted by Deleted User
Simply because thye are going with a DAoC style pvP system called Realm Versus Realm.  Nothing wrong with this, since it takes place 1000 years before the known lore takes place, so in a sense they are creating backstory lore for already established games.

 Completely false. 2E is already established via lore from TES games. It has already been pointed out on the offical forums and fansites that during the time period of this game, not ONCE did the Empire come under attack from anyone, the only attempt was stopped at Marrowind, it wasnt until Septim came along that the Empire was attacked, and he took over.

They even said themselves that they made some changes to the lore to fit their tiny little box they havent been able to get out of for 15 years.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

4/02/13 9:48:58 PM#84

In fact, the entire second era, 1000 years before Skyrim is well documented across several TES games.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/second-era

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Era

Seems like there are a lot of DaoC fans that just played Skyrim and are acting like TES experts...

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Sentnl

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/13
Posts: 79

4/02/13 10:10:56 PM#85
Originally posted by jtcgs

In fact, the entire second era, 1000 years before Skyrim is well documented across several TES games.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/second-era

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Era

Seems like there are a lot of DaoC fans that just played Skyrim and are acting like TES experts...

Well that three paragraph wiki is a joke for "lore", and quickly skimming across that "library" i don't think I saw anything that said three factions were impossible.

I never played daoc, but I would never let estranged roleplay fantasies take center stage over exciting pvp mechanics.

Could you please quote something usefull for me? I would appreciate it.

I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

 
OP  4/03/13 9:30:56 AM#86
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by sapphen

This isn't about accepting realm pride, they changed the 'style' of TES games to split the races into factions.  I had character pride in TES games, if I want faction pride I'll play CU.

Well, if you are willing to make us wait a couple years for CU then I guess its only fair for us to make you wait a couple years for the next TES game so you can have your character pride back.

Fair! What are we children?  This is a TES MMO, what does you having to wait on CU have anything to do with the development of Elder Scrolls Online.  This is not a children's classroom, it's the real world.

 

Originally posted by Sentnl

Dude, don't even use that argument, I'm sure if all goes well, we will ALL have fun in CU... when the beta starts in TWO YEARS!

LOL :) Its ok, Sapphen is just going to play dumb until we get frustrated and walk away anyhow.

I'd rather play dumb than be dumb.  Sometimes there is no debate to simple ideas, you either agree or disagree.  In my opinion ESO changed the theme of TES games to accomidate RvR combat.  This may or may not be neccessary but they DID change it.  You respond to no ends.

  Vendac

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 39

4/03/13 9:57:27 AM#87
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by sapphen

This isn't about accepting realm pride, they changed the 'style' of TES games to split the races into factions.  I had character pride in TES games, if I want faction pride I'll play CU.

Well, if you are willing to make us wait a couple years for CU then I guess its only fair for us to make you wait a couple years for the next TES game so you can have your character pride back.

Fair! What are we children?  This is a TES MMO, what does you having to wait on CU have anything to do with the development of Elder Scrolls Online.  This is not a children's classroom, it's the real world.

 

Originally posted by Sentnl

Dude, don't even use that argument, I'm sure if all goes well, we will ALL have fun in CU... when the beta starts in TWO YEARS!

LOL :) Its ok, Sapphen is just going to play dumb until we get frustrated and walk away anyhow.

I'd rather play dumb than be dumb.  Sometimes there is no debate to simple ideas, you either agree or disagree.  In my opinion ESO changed the theme of TES games to accomidate RvR combat.  This may or may not be neccessary but they DID change it.  You respond to no ends.

Way to come off with a generic answer...

I do agree with your statement of "In my opinion ESO changed the theme of TES games to accomidate RvR combat" though.

Anyway, with any MMO, especially a 3 realm setup, some changes in the lore must be made especially in this case.  If the changes that have been made were not acceptable to Bethesda, do you think they would have allowed them?  Is there an all knowing TES bible that controls the fate of how a TES game must be made?  Ultimately Zenimax is using a proven system in the 3 realm system.  My biggest dissapointment thus far is that they will use mirror classes for each faction instead of making each class different from faction to faction. 

They cannot do another WoW or TES game rehash.  It just will not work long term.  They have to get far enough out there and give people something new to pull them in, and then give them an endgame that is different from what is out there to keep them there.  I think the 3 faction and RvR does that and will give some faction pride which helps keep people around.  End game raiding and the gear treadmill has been done to death.  Its time for something new(ish).

You cant fix stupid - Ron White

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

4/03/13 10:17:25 AM#88
Originally posted by Sentnl
Originally posted by jtcgs

In fact, the entire second era, 1000 years before Skyrim is well documented across several TES games.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/second-era

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Era

Seems like there are a lot of DaoC fans that just played Skyrim and are acting like TES experts...

Well that three paragraph wiki is a joke for "lore", and quickly skimming across that "library" i don't think I saw anything that said three factions were impossible.

I never played daoc, but I would never let estranged roleplay fantasies take center stage over exciting pvp mechanics.

Could you please quote something usefull for me? I would appreciate it.

I read through the imperial library. I don't know if they've changed anything recently, but it looks like they fit all the lore for this game into a previously unoccuppied range of time from 2E 578 through 2E 603. So did they "change" the lore, or did they just add to it?

 

  Miblet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/10
Posts: 333

4/03/13 10:32:58 AM#89
It was an empty period lorewise, they added this into the timeline.
  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

4/03/13 10:50:07 AM#90
Originally posted by Miblet
It was an empty period lorewise, they added this into the timeline.

Perfect. Then there's no lore problem at all.

  ElRenmazuo

Elite Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4190

4/03/13 11:28:42 AM#91
my question is why is everyone trying to kill eachother if the devil him self (molag-bol) is trying to bring oblivion on the world and take over? lol
  ElRenmazuo

Elite Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4190

4/03/13 11:35:53 AM#92
Originally posted by rygard49
Originally posted by Miblet
It was an empty period lorewise, they added this into the timeline.

Perfect. Then there's no lore problem at all.

Its not the lore thats the problem with some of us its that the mmo changes one of the foundations that make the ES series so great which is freedom...the freedom to go anywhere in the landmass they provided no matter what race you choose and to fight for whomever you choose. For instannce in Skyrim they let me choose a race and then choose who i wanted to fight for and still didnt restrict me from going to the enemy lands.  And even when i went to the enemy land there were nuetral people who i could work for.

  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

4/03/13 11:43:21 AM#93

because like anything else, it's easier and less expensive to just cram your IP into an existing model than it is to actually think about and design your game around an IP. Same reason swtor is just a story driven mmo. why not just cram the entire universe into the systems you have been using for single player games for years and attach some standard mmo stuff with glue and rubberbands instead of actual code?

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

4/03/13 11:51:12 AM#94
Originally posted by tkreep
Originally posted by rygard49
Originally posted by Miblet
It was an empty period lorewise, they added this into the timeline.

Perfect. Then there's no lore problem at all.

Its not the lore thats the problem with some of us its that the mmo changes one of the foundations that make the ES series so great which is freedom...the freedom to go anywhere in the landmass they provided no matter what race you choose and to fight for whomever you choose. For instannce in Skyrim they let me choose a race and then choose who i wanted to fight for and still didnt restrict me from going to the enemy lands.  And even when i went to the enemy land there were nuetral people who i could work for.

I hear you. Some of you truly just don't like the way the mechanic works in this setting, and it's not you guys I'm addressing here. I actually understand where you're coming from, and I don't disagree with your right to be upset.

Others are pointing to the lore for why it's wrong and saying that ZM changed existing lore, when in fact all they did was find a gap in history and fill the gap. That's what all ES games do, they fill previously empty time periods with new stories. So using the lore as a scapegoat for why faction lock doesn't fit in the ES universe isn't an effective argument.

  Sir7681

Novice Member

Joined: 4/02/13
Posts: 6

4/03/13 11:56:42 AM#95
Originally posted by Miblet

'...and everyone else lives peacefully together in regions OTHER than their own.'

Before the events of Skyrim the Thalmor had removed all non mers from Summerset Isle. Racism has always existed in all their games from this IP and the world they portray has always been one kept in check by force of arms.  Peace was attained in many provinces through the Empire's armies, not because the local peoples thought the Empire was a great idea (just like the Romans that the Empire is based on).

"everyone else" refers to the people outisde the minority I mentioned that were racist.  Nothing you said changes the fact that it was still a minority and not 90% of the population, and that somehow magicly there are no long term effects of this major war.  No new racial grudges.  Fighting along side races you hated didn't undo old wrongs and make enemies into friends.  It's like...none of it ever happened...funny how that works when you insert a race based war into a pre-existing world but ignore all the pre-existing racial relationships.

 

btw, on a side note, I resent being told I'm just a skyrim fanboy.  I HAVE played all the elder scrolls games, I started with marrowind, and then oblivion, and decided I liked the series enough to go back and play the previous games long before I ever played skyrim.  All I'm saying is that this may be a good system for an MMO, but it doesn't fit this world, and forcing the world to fit the system is a mistake.

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2993

I actually still like MMORPGs

4/03/13 12:09:51 PM#96

This type of system creates a stronger sense of identity for each faction. If any race is any faction you're just a bunch of people who happen to have a faction name. But when you're an Orc and a Dark Elf and you see a High Elf and a Breton (just for example I dont know the factions) you immediately know THAT IS THE ENEMY!

Anyone who played DAoC knows you almost become an in game racist. I loved all my Hibernia bretheren and cursed the wicked Albion and the savage Midgardians! If they all had access to the same races, it would have felt...dull.

  Vendac

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 39

4/03/13 12:13:30 PM#97
Originally posted by Fendel84M

This type of system creates a stronger sense of identity for each faction. If any race is any faction you're just a bunch of people who happen to have a faction name. But when you're an Orc and a Dark Elf and you see a High Elf and a Breton (just for example I dont know the factions) you immediately know THAT IS THE ENEMY!

Anyone who played DAoC knows you almost become an in game racist. I loved all my Hibernia bretheren and cursed the wicked Albion and the savage Midgardians! If they all had access to the same races, it would have felt...dull.

Good point.  Every class and race had a specific look.

You cant fix stupid - Ron White

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2643

110100100

4/03/13 12:17:59 PM#98

it isn't an issue for me personally but i do see this as the main flaw of this game judging by the information we have so far.

large guilds will all be forced to roll the same three races and that's a bit restrictive.

so i can see this as an issue for some people for sure.

that said, for most ES fans i don't think its going to be a big deal (since many of them will likely be playing solo or with small groups of friends anyways) and ex Daoc players are used to this mechanic.

  Dranean

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/10
Posts: 79

4/03/13 12:22:08 PM#99

I don't want to kill the fun of this topic but ehm.. World of Warcraft had a restriction to race/sides right? And that worked out pretty well as the game is stil being played 10 years later?

Personally I prefer to wait and see what the devs provide us and see from there, If I like it.. I will be playing it for a long time, If I don't like it.. I will look for something else :)

  DAS1337

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2379

4/03/13 12:26:35 PM#100
Originally posted by kolargol
Restrictions in general are what make games more complex and deep. It forces you to learn to play around them thus adding more than just linear progression.

Restrictions in general make things simpler.  You can't even argue this point unless you absolutely hate sandbox concepts and are trolling.  Restrictions limit things.  Limiting things makes them more streamlined.  Making things streamlined generally means you are making things easier or simpler.  

 

SMH..

 

Yes OP, I agree that you should be able to create your character and make the faction choice at some point during your progression.  This would open up multple starting zones based on race as well as allowing players to go through all faction content.  It would have appeased the PvE and lore people as well as leaving the PvP crowd unchainged.  Not only that, it would have fit the lore better.  Instead, you are left feeling like they are just fitting in AvA because it's a popular trend lately, not because it fits the IP.

 

However, as you said, there's nothing we can do about it now.  We made a big stink about it as soon as this information went public, and it didn't change then.  So it won't change now.

 

I'd also like a form of housing, but they are acting like it's impossible.  You'd think it would right up their alley with all of their phasing and instancing going on in their megaserver.  But no, they can't do it even though plenty of other MMO's have been able to and are able to now.

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