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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Greed Monger switches back to Unity and Forums get Removed!

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284 posts found
  Biskop

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/11
Posts: 731

4/02/13 6:25:20 AM#41
This whole project just screamed "massive failure" from the start.

Unprofessional conduct by a lead dev is never a good sign, and this guy is just over the top with his inflated ego and personal attacks on critics.

Add lack of experience, shady business antics and overall lack of direction and credibility, and you've got wholesale disaster.

People stupid enough to give this guy their money deserve to feel cheated. I wish gamers were less willing to buy into these fake-ass indie "devs" promising to make great sandbox games
out of nothing. MO, DF, ER, Xsyon, Salem... We really should know better by now.

But some people are just way too naive and hungry for something new, and willingly throw money at anyone with a "vision".

Kickstarter has made this tendency even more apparent, but I think a backlash is coming as more and more people feel scammed by fake "devs" promising the moon. Embers of Caerus will probably be the next KS disaster; those guys are also amateurs painting a grand picture of a revolutionary MMO based on nothing but words and concept art, and some people are buying it without asking any questions. It will not end well either.
  Arglebargle

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 1088

4/02/13 6:38:53 AM#42
I am rarely surprised when I hear a new 'Greed Monger' story.....

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  taus01

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 1419

 
OP  4/02/13 7:51:03 AM#43
Originally posted by Biskop
This whole project just screamed "massive failure" from the start.

Unprofessional conduct by a lead dev is never a good sign, and this guy is just over the top with his inflated ego and personal attacks on critics.

Add lack of experience, shady business antics and overall lack of direction and credibility, and you've got wholesale disaster.

People stupid enough to give this guy their money deserve to feel cheated. I wish gamers were less willing to buy into these fake-ass indie "devs" promising to make great sandbox games
out of nothing. MO, DF, ER, Xsyon, Salem... We really should know better by now.

But some people are just way too naive and hungry for something new, and willingly throw money at anyone with a "vision".

Kickstarter has made this tendency even more apparent, but I think a backlash is coming as more and more people feel scammed by fake "devs" promising the moon. Embers of Caerus will probably be the next KS disaster; those guys are also amateurs painting a grand picture of a revolutionary MMO based on nothing but words and concept art, and some people are buying it without asking any questions. It will not end well either.

I am with you on this, i see a huge "fallout" of failed kickstarter projects in the near future. All these Projects that got funded on a few concept pictures and wild promises. Some of the big names that have recently risen from the grave of old school game developers are no exception to this, they can fail too.

Not including the ones that are quite obviously scams like the Millionair lady that wants money to send her little daughter to a game developer camp to make an RPG.

 

No one makes a sandbox MMORPG in less than 6 months with only $90,000

from: "Unity is cool, how do i import all these assets i bought?" ~ Jason Appleton

to: "We change Engines twice but are ready with an Alpha release early April" ~ Jason Appleton

 

Let this be a warning to everyone not to buy into any hype. A lesson can be learned here.

 

 

"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

  JamesP

Novice Member

Joined: 1/04/06
Posts: 312

4/02/13 8:37:21 AM#44

I'm not going to address the things I've read in this thread for reasons I won't go into... All I am going to say though is that inspite of what the thoughts are concerning Greed Monger we ARE moving forward with Development. We will be into Alpha nearly on schedule. We already have people running around with the world. Our Server Side Seamless tech will be online shortly and our Server Cluster continues to expand as needed. Our Team continues to expand which now includes some World Builders who have worked in the industry for a while including on games such as Crysis 1 and 2. Our Q&A Department is up and running and includes 1 Windows Tester, 1 Mac Tester, and Soon a 3rd tester who uses both Windows and Mac so we can ensure equal playability on the range of supported Platforms. 

 

Here's a link to our latest video:

http://youtu.be/nDOxcqd9rbk

Lead Programmer
Greed Monger
http://www.GreedMonger.com

  DaveBelcher

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/07/11
Posts: 40

4/02/13 8:37:52 AM#45
Originally posted by Biskop
Embers of Caerus will probably be the next KS disaster; those guys are also amateurs painting a grand picture of a revolutionary MMO based on nothing but words and concept art, and some people are buying it without asking any questions. It will not end well either.

  Actually, we are very, very far from disaster, but thank you for the mention! :)


I did question the Greedmonger claims of having almost limitless customisation in an MMO setting (having to battle that challenge ourselves, we know how hard that acutally is even to manage limited customisation in an MMO setting without major networking/storage/memory issues), but I guess given our own project I'm more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt. The information shared in this thread is very interesting though...

 

It really is a crying shame that people seek to abuse and exploit the awesome vehicle for helping indie devs that kickstarter is. That goes, in my mind, for large studios that don't need the money almost as much as for devs who just can't deliver. Projects like The Repopulation show exactly what kickstarter SHOULD be for, and without kickstarter we wouldn't be where WE are as a studio, so anything that damages kickstarter and the good will for it in the community makes me a sad puppy :(

 

Dave

  BillMurphy

Managing Editor

Joined: 7/28/06
Posts: 1724

4/02/13 8:41:58 AM#46
Originally posted by taus01

 

Why did the Greed Monger Forums get removed? Was this a request from Jason Appleton to remove the negative information posted about the game?

In case this hasn't been answered yet, yes.  He emailed me directly and asked us to remove the negative posts about the game.  He also hinted at taking legal action if we didn't remove the posts of our users, and we decided we didn't need a baseless lawsuit.  

If you want to blame someone for the removal of the game listing and forums, blame Jason Appleton.  But when someone threatens us with legal action, we can either a.) ignore it or b.) react with what we think is appropriate.  In Greed Monger's case, it's probably just better to igore its existence as a website.  

I wish the Greed Monger devs well, but I'm not too thrilled with how they handled the negativity our forum users tossed their way.  If they can't take the criticism and claims of trolls, they're in for a rude awakening in this industry.  

Maybe one day we'll re-add the game to our list, but that depends on whether or not our users are allowed to post about it without the site being under threat of legal recourse.

  Quailman

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/08/09
Posts: 170

4/02/13 8:50:22 AM#47
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by taus01

 

Why did the Greed Monger Forums get removed? Was this a request from Jason Appleton to remove the negative information posted about the game?

In case this hasn't been answered yet, yes.  He emailed me directly and asked us to remove the negative posts about the game.  He also hinted at taking legal action if we didn't remove the posts of our users, and we decided we didn't need a baseless lawsuit.  

If you want to blame someone for the removal of the game listing and forums, blame Jason Appleton.  But when someone threatens us with legal action, we can either a.) ignore it or b.) react with what we think is appropriate.  In Greed Monger's case, it's probably just better to igore its existence as a website.  

I wish the Greed Monger devs well, but I'm not too thrilled with how they handled the negativity our forum users tossed their way.  If they can't take the criticism and claims of trolls, they're in for a rude awakening in this industry.  

Maybe one day we'll re-add the game to our list, but that depends on whether or not our users are allowed to post about it without the site being under threat of legal recourse.

Wow, so that guy thinks he can stifle free speech on the internet. You guys did the right thing by removing the forum for their "game". It seems his goal is to kill his little project before it even really starts. If that  truly is his goal, well, at least he'll succeed at something.

Consume. Be silent. Die.

  Kaerigan

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/06
Posts: 713

4/02/13 9:01:17 AM#48
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by taus01

 

Why did the Greed Monger Forums get removed? Was this a request from Jason Appleton to remove the negative information posted about the game?

In case this hasn't been answered yet, yes.  He emailed me directly and asked us to remove the negative posts about the game.  He also hinted at taking legal action if we didn't remove the posts of our users, and we decided we didn't need a baseless lawsuit.  

If you want to blame someone for the removal of the game listing and forums, blame Jason Appleton.  But when someone threatens us with legal action, we can either a.) ignore it or b.) react with what we think is appropriate.  In Greed Monger's case, it's probably just better to igore its existence as a website.  

I wish the Greed Monger devs well, but I'm not too thrilled with how they handled the negativity our forum users tossed their way.  If they can't take the criticism and claims of trolls, they're in for a rude awakening in this industry.  

Maybe one day we'll re-add the game to our list, but that depends on whether or not our users are allowed to post about it without the site being under threat of legal recourse.

Woah, that's pathetic (of him, not you, no one wants to get sued even if it's a bullshit case that'll get thrown out). Anyone supporting this game at this point must have a screw loose or three.

<childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>

  Caldrin

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4140

4/02/13 9:20:31 AM#49

Well even last month they where posting screenshots up on their facebook page like this one

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=490308534369506&set=a.421418307925196.94807.416222818444745&type=1&theater

quite clearly the default hero engine Character model.. so the move back must have been recent or they where posting old pics.

Even if this guy have now managed to get a decent team togeather he has still gone about things totally wrong and other than a few loyal followers i dont think many would risk spending money on this game..

 

 

Good luck to them tho.

 

 

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Zekiah

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2539

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

4/02/13 9:24:19 AM#50

Hehehe.

I'd like to thank whoever it was that warned us about the status of the project... or lackthereof.

Cheers! 

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  Biskop

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/11
Posts: 731

4/02/13 9:39:47 AM#51
He threatened to sue mmorpg.com because of some negative comments? Wow, this dude really is something...

But I guess that was to be expected from a lead dev who actively engages in flame wars and baiting.
  Thradok

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/11
Posts: 57

4/02/13 9:42:03 AM#52
Originally posted by Biskop
Kickstarter has made this tendency even more apparent, but I think a backlash is coming as more and more people feel scammed by fake "devs" promising the moon. Embers of Caerus will probably be the next KS disaster; those guys are also amateurs painting a grand picture of a revolutionary MMO based on nothing but words and concept art, and some people are buying it without asking any questions. It will not end well either.

Dave already commented on this, but I'd just like to add that you may wish to take a look at our most recent newsletter. It's because of sentiments similar to this that we will soon(tm) have at least a little something for people to 'play.' If nothing else it should prove that we are moving forward steadily with development and won't be crashing any time soon.

You can see it here.

  Caldrin

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4140

4/02/13 9:43:01 AM#53
Originally posted by taus01

 

No one makes a sandbox MMORPG in less than 6 months with only $90,000

from: "Unity is cool, how do i import all these assets i bought?" ~ Jason Appleton

to: "We change Engines twice but are ready with an Alpha release early April" ~ Jason Appleton

 

 

 

 

The money is not so much of an issue, as everything that is needed to make an MMO in unity can be got for nothng.. but of course you need the skill to do it anda team willing to work for nothing... your are 100% right with the amonut of time tho, but maybe they could get some kind of basic alpha out in 6 months...very basic server connectivity and so on.. but still thats somthing you need to test.

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13426

4/02/13 9:51:00 AM#54
Originally posted by mmoski
Originally posted by asmkm22

Probably removed the forums because it's not actually a real game in development.  It's just some random guy's pet project with no real chance at going anywhere.

It's amateur vaporware.

Yeah, unless a developer has a lot of clout and experience backing them then the term "real development" is opinionated, that's not to say that "pet projects" won't be successful though, some of the best games that push the industry have come from pet projects.

I can be sympathetic to starting to make a game and then being unable to finish it.

I'm a lot less sympathetic to taking money from customers with promises to finish the game and then being unable to finish it.  Once you start taking money, you'd better be able to deliver--and if it's not clear whether you can, you shouldn't take their money yet.

The game that I've been posting screenshots of periodically around here is likely to never be finished.  But the key difference is, I never took anyone's money, whether from investors or customers.  If I cancel the project tomorrow and don't refund any money to anyone, no one is wronged by it.

  nethervoid

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/05
Posts: 531

4/02/13 11:11:45 AM#55

Kickstarter is for suckers. lol

An idiot and his money are easily seperated.

nethervoid - Est. '97
[UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|SWTOR]
13k subs YouTube Gaming channel

  Venger

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/04
Posts: 1322

Help Fight Global Warming
Shut Your Mouth :D

4/02/13 11:14:44 AM#56

The ironic thing about all the hate towards GM (and indie games in general) is we all bitch, moan, and whine about wanting something different.  A game created by gamers for gamers not some corporate suits that don't have a clue what we want.  So we get a indie team like the GM team who are not suits, who are learning some things as they go, and are very passionate about their game.  Learning some things as they go you must assume there will be some mistakes.  Being new and trying to be very open to the community you also must assume they will state some things long before they should.  Then you have passion, passion is a double edged sword.  You have to take the good with the bad.

Will I get my moneys worth?  Time will tell, but I'd rather spend some money on a gamble then to keep spending money on the same old same old.

  wowclones

Novice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 133

4/02/13 11:15:23 AM#57
Nice move Bill, Jason Appleton is an embarassment to these forums, to Kickstarter and to indie game development. MMORPG didn't deserve to be threatened as you guys were only trying to help promote his game. People troll all games even the best games on the market have trolls, Jason must have been new to the mmo and game scene as it appears it was his first time ever on the internet lol.
  Maejohl

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/22/12
Posts: 114

4/02/13 11:47:29 AM#58
Originally posted by nethervoid

Kickstarter is for suckers. lol

An idiot and his money are easily seperated.

As is a philanthropist and his money.

www.luxarcana.org
Celebrating 10 years of gaming together 2004 - 2014

  taus01

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 1419

 
OP  4/02/13 11:49:19 AM#59
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by taus01

 

Why did the Greed Monger Forums get removed? Was this a request from Jason Appleton to remove the negative information posted about the game?

In case this hasn't been answered yet, yes.  He emailed me directly and asked us to remove the negative posts about the game.  He also hinted at taking legal action if we didn't remove the posts of our users, and we decided we didn't need a baseless lawsuit.  

If you want to blame someone for the removal of the game listing and forums, blame Jason Appleton.  But when someone threatens us with legal action, we can either a.) ignore it or b.) react with what we think is appropriate.  In Greed Monger's case, it's probably just better to igore its existence as a website.  

I wish the Greed Monger devs well, but I'm not too thrilled with how they handled the negativity our forum users tossed their way.  If they can't take the criticism and claims of trolls, they're in for a rude awakening in this industry.  

Maybe one day we'll re-add the game to our list, but that depends on whether or not our users are allowed to post about it without the site being under threat of legal recourse.

I am sure you area aware of the fact that he had no legal grounds to threaten you and this would have never gone to court. In any case, it's sad to see that all this information is gone because people need to know and not invest any more money into this ridiculous project.

 

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  Maejohl

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/22/12
Posts: 114

4/02/13 11:50:36 AM#60
Originally posted by taus01
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by taus01

 

Why did the Greed Monger Forums get removed? Was this a request from Jason Appleton to remove the negative information posted about the game?

In case this hasn't been answered yet, yes.  He emailed me directly and asked us to remove the negative posts about the game.  He also hinted at taking legal action if we didn't remove the posts of our users, and we decided we didn't need a baseless lawsuit.  

If you want to blame someone for the removal of the game listing and forums, blame Jason Appleton.  But when someone threatens us with legal action, we can either a.) ignore it or b.) react with what we think is appropriate.  In Greed Monger's case, it's probably just better to igore its existence as a website.  

I wish the Greed Monger devs well, but I'm not too thrilled with how they handled the negativity our forum users tossed their way.  If they can't take the criticism and claims of trolls, they're in for a rude awakening in this industry.  

Maybe one day we'll re-add the game to our list, but that depends on whether or not our users are allowed to post about it without the site being under threat of legal recourse.

I am sure you area aware of the fact that he had no legal grounds to threaten you and this would have never gone to court. In any case, it's sad to see that all this information is gone because people need to know and not invest any more money into this ridiculous project.

 

Could you explain why he had no legal grounds? (I'm not challenging - just interested to know from the US perspective).

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