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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Honestly, disgusted with the testing monetization

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101 posts found
  Maric

Novice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 64

http://paganrites.wordpress.com/

4/02/13 1:25:18 AM#61
Originally posted by OgreRaper
I think it's a good thing. You know people who help fund a project are going to actually care about how it turns out, and give the best feedback and bug reporting. Rather than inviting random people who sign up for every alpha/beta test they can.

This. Goblet raised to you Sir!

  Xondar123

Gumshoe

Joined: 11/08/07
Posts: 2601

4/02/13 3:03:19 AM#62

The thing about Kickstarter is that you are actually donating to fund the project, not paying for anything at all. The rewards are extra incentives, icing on the cake if you will, for those who choose to donate.

If people see getting into beta as a good reward for donating to the project, then I guess that amount to their personal preferences. Personally, I'll never beta test a game ever again. I've found that beta testing has ruined MMOs for me. Invariably they'll do something awesome in the beta test that they can't replicate in the actual release, and that's just a disappointment.

xondar10 Xfire Miniprofile
  taurak

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/01/04
Posts: 174

4/02/13 6:01:49 AM#63

I think its a good idea myself, considering its a pretty small company, and that they are trying to create a game that many players have been begging for for literally years.

 

Look at all the petitions, and all the forums posts all over the internet begging for DAoC2.

 

I'm guessing EA, or whoever controlls Mythic these days doesn't want to fund DAoC 2, or they want to turn it into a WoW 2. So on the bright side we're getting a man in charge that isn't going to change his vision for a bunch of corporate guys, who probably don't even play MMORPG's in the first place, all they care about is the $ they can get form it.

 

I'm very happy to fund the kickstarter. MMORPG's have become stale WoW clones, and we need something different. I would fund this game without even getting a beta invite almost, no different than preordering at gamestop, just this way you get into the beta and get some bonuses, like beta keys for your friends and such.

I myself have been guilty of preordering games at gamestop just for the beta, such as guild wars 2, then cancelling my preorder when I see how much I don't like it, but I am sure this game will not be like that at all.

  Aeodo

Novice Member

Joined: 3/21/13
Posts: 61

4/02/13 6:26:57 AM#64
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by OgreRaper
I think it's a good thing. You know People who help fund a project are going to actually care about how it turns out. Rather than inviting random people who sign up for every alpha/beta test they can.

So why not invite long time DAOC players to be testers of the new game in the same franchise?

Oh, that's right, money.

 

Maybe because it's not the same franchise?

CU is NOT DAoC 2.

 

Also, Mark said you can be invited to internal testing without giving a single cent.

  CU_now_please

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/13
Posts: 47

4/02/13 6:29:00 AM#65

Reading the above has increased my sceptism, but it won't decrease my donated ammount....

 

Without a publisher it means all of us, on forums now or over the next three years, are writing things that will be read (they at least pretend to need YOU), and even though i'm sure the main concepts of the game are already set in stone the mass input from the community will help shape the game, how many games have had this sort dicussion through early stages?, and after KICKSTARTER how many games can boast such a strange public following and investment (personal of $$ wise)  so long before production? It's a new paradigm... 

 

Live in hope, that said don't donate what you can't afford to and you won't be let down.

/anon

  Speely

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 864

4/02/13 7:02:28 AM#66
Here's the good part: no one has to support the kickstarter if they don't want to. One can merely buy the game once it's released (or not.) This is not a compulsory expenditure.

This a very first-world complaint. No one is asking anyone who doesn't agree with the model to participate. Hell, Mark Jacobs is actively telling people that this isn't for everyone.

So I am wondering where the hate is coming from. In case anyone is wondering, here are a few key points:

This is a game for fans of the genre who want a hardcore mmorpg free from publisher constraints. If you don't think it should be backed, don't back it. We will.

This is a game a lot of us are excited about because of the features espoused in the Foundational Principles, the developer involved, and our desire for a hardcore sandbox RvR game. If you don't like the model, don't back it. Easy.

Some of us want to believe that there are developers that share our love for the genre and want to make a game that reflects that. We are willing to invest to help that dream come true. You don't have to. We will see you after release.

As to a paid beta: you get lots of goodies (the game included) to go along with it. I really don't get the rampant trolling going on with this kickstarter. It's quite liberal with rewards, and games have changed since the good ole days. Also, half the people who beta test are just there to play the game early, and not to bug test. They SHOULD bloody well be paying. The fact that you are gettting a copy of the game with GOODIES for the price of admittance renders this whole argument null and void.

Easy solution: ignore it. We will be fine. Promise. See you after release!

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt

  belatucadros

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 272

4/02/13 7:15:48 AM#67

If you don't want to contribute - don't.

Just please apply the same to your forum posting :)

Why do you care what anyone else does with their money?

 

Eldritch, Nightshade, Warden, Druid, Mauler, Mentalist
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  tom_gore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

4/02/13 7:30:35 AM#68
Originally posted by Hokibukisa

like its such a privilege to play an unfinished mmo.

Welcome to the 21st century.

 

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5548

4/02/13 7:31:21 AM#69
Originally posted by belatucadros

If you don't want to contribute - don't.

Just please apply the same to your forum posting :)

Why do you care what anyone else does with their money?

I post because I think crowd funding is interesting. It has a strange psycological pull for many people. It allows them to feel like they're part of something. It makes them feel like their input is valuable. But the reality is that the developers and the designers are going to do what they feel is correct. I suppose that's the main thing. There is a wide gap between what is actually happening and what the person thinks is happening.

 

I find it especially strange when a developer or designer goes to various forums expressing that they want public feedback. I see that as an inexpensive way to market your product. In those threads there will be a hundred ideas that never get considered. All you have to do is hold up the appearance that you are listening every once in a while and people will near worship your every word. It helps create a buzz.

 

Why do you care that people find crowdfunding a bit off-putting? Why is the subject off the table to discuss in a thread about an MMORPG that is being crowdfunded - like - tomorrow. People will contribute and not contribute. I doubt anything that is actually said in these forums is going to influence someone incredibly. People that were planning to donate are still going to donate and people that were not still won't.

 

So is it just that you don't like hearing the reasoning behind why crowdfunding is wierd to some of us? Does it bother you to read it? Should these things not be discussed unless they are discussed with praise?

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  ringdany

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/26/11
Posts: 123

4/02/13 7:33:27 AM#70

the whole exercise stinks of marketing glam. mark jacobs using his name and fast talking skills to scam off a whole lot of rich kids :(

i wud much prefer to put the money towards devs who are committed to less glam and glitz and more hard technical facts on what mkes a good game. 99% of what mark jacobs is talking about is non-essential to a great RvR PvP game, and this to me indicates he is saying all of it just to suck more money in.

--- i guess im just a bit worried about these kinds of donation drives. what kind of assurance do we have that the dev will follow  our requests? what is to stop him running off with the money and doing someting complete different? why shouldn't we opt for a more rigorous and readily available legal structure where we can have greater assurance? i feel these are important and relevant questions.

belatucrados -- i think it is good that such structures have worke din the past. but i  suspect.. i suspect they are vulnerable to diifficulties and so are not durable vehicles for future ventures. Given many are so enthusiastic, i guess i can only encourage them for now.

tom_gore - i think iu r right. when MJ puts up a more concrete proposal i will make sure to take a 2nd and closer look. i feel he has ability, i too wud like to see a great successor in RvR pvp.

  belatucadros

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 272

4/02/13 7:35:04 AM#71

Posts like yours...no problem. The whining/trolls, no thanks. (edit: see post above for example, lol)

MJ has always had trolls, and ignoring them is key.

And while most of what you said is true, I've been a part of many MJ-sponsored betas, and if change needs to be made, and can be reasonably done...you'd be surprised the things that can be accomplished.

Things didn't turn out all that well in the end, but they even made a BIG turnaround in WAR beta based on beta feedback.

 

Eldritch, Nightshade, Warden, Druid, Mauler, Mentalist
Sorcerer, Necromancer, Theurgist, Armsman, Cleric
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  tom_gore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

4/02/13 7:37:58 AM#72
Originally posted by ringdany

the whole exercise stinks of marketing glam. mark jacobs using his name and fast talking skills to scam off a whole lot of rich kids :(

 

i wud much prefer to put the money towards devs who are committed to less glam and glitz and more hard technical facts on what mkes a good game. 99% of what mark jacobs is talking about is non-essential to a great RvR PvP game, and this to me indicates he is saying all of it just to suck more money in.

I think MJ has a lot of good ideas. Unfortunately it seems they have jack to show about this project at this point. Execution is completely unknown as of yet.

That's the reason I'm not putting my money down unless they have something to show when the KS launches.

 

  belatucadros

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 272

4/02/13 7:53:38 AM#73
Originally posted by tom_gore
Originally posted by ringdany

the whole exercise stinks of marketing glam. mark jacobs using his name and fast talking skills to scam off a whole lot of rich kids :(

 

i wud much prefer to put the money towards devs who are committed to less glam and glitz and more hard technical facts on what mkes a good game. 99% of what mark jacobs is talking about is non-essential to a great RvR PvP game, and this to me indicates he is saying all of it just to suck more money in.

I think MJ has a lot of good ideas. Unfortunately it seems they have jack to show about this project at this point. Execution is completely unknown as of yet.

That's the reason I'm not putting my money down unless they have something to show when the KS launches.

 

Well I think they did do a small tech demo (we'll know in ~3 hours), I doubt much of anything is ready at this point. This is very early in the project.

One of the most successful gaming(and overall) kickstarters is Project Eternity from Obsidian. Their KS video is basically some concept art and some devs talking. But they raised almost 4mil so far.

I think that's what most people are using the $25 tier as. "Hey, I'll throw $25 in, get into a late beta and see if I like it" - I know several people doing that. (Of course, I know just as many doing the $250 tier, so...)

I think the thing is that if you are interested enough in MMOs to start browsing these forums for info, $25 isn't a lot to put towards that IF you like what they are saying.

Kickstarter isn't about building a prototype and then "getting the rest" - some projects do happen that way, but it's not as common as people are implying. At least not in the gaming category.

 

Eldritch, Nightshade, Warden, Druid, Mauler, Mentalist
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  StarI

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 809

4/02/13 7:54:21 AM#74
Originally posted by Hokibukisa

I guess if people are willing to pay for it, charge em. But damn, this kickstarter is focusing on it like its such a privilege to play an unfinished mmo.

 

Am cool with rewards tiers, I guess I'm just disgusted with how mmos and beta tests have turned out. Used to be something you'd want to invite experienced users to participate in and you would thank them for it. Now you sell it and the testers thank you for it.

 

Meh.

 

That's why I don't beta test anymore. I may pay money if I desire the early access, bonuses and whatever else. But I would not bother to report a single bug as a paying customer. No way I'll give my money to a company so I can than work for them for free!!

If they paid me to test than I'd be their best beta tester, and for free access I'd be a good beta tester.

 

  nixium

Novice Member

Joined: 10/08/06
Posts: 21

4/02/13 7:56:53 AM#75

Kickstarter's are pure evil.

But people don't have to give free money away it's up to them so meh.

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4118

4/02/13 7:56:56 AM#76
Originally posted by Hokibukisa

I guess if people are willing to pay for it, charge em. But damn, this kickstarter is focusing on it like its such a privilege to play an unfinished mmo.

 

Am cool with rewards tiers, I guess I'm just disgusted with how mmos and beta tests have turned out. Used to be something you'd want to invite experienced users to participate in and you would thank them for it. Now you sell it and the testers thank you for it.

 

Meh.

well its a good way to get people interested in the game and maybe pony up a few bucks... at the end of the day they are not going to force you to pay its totally up to you, and hell if they can get people to test a game then all the better i dont blame them one bit...

 

 

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  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4118

4/02/13 8:07:20 AM#77
Originally posted by nixium

Kickstarter's are pure evil.

But people don't have to give free money away it's up to them so meh.

How on earth are they pure evil..

Kickstarter is probally one of the best things to happen to PC gaming over the last few years.. and as you said you have a choice.. help fund the game you want or dont.. its simple.. also its not like you dont get anything back in return, most of the time you will actually geta copy of the game when its released.

My 3D models
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  Teh_Axi

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 405

4/02/13 8:23:04 AM#78

Disgusted because MJ won't let you try his game for free before its close to finished?

Or that he won't give you a job just for being you?

Or maybe because your money is worth (far) more than your opinion?

He seem like a reasonable guy, maybe if you ask nice he'll add a teir that comes with a box of tissues. 

  Ziftylrhavic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 223

4/02/13 8:38:01 AM#79
Originally posted by StarI
Originally posted by Hokibukisa

I guess if people are willing to pay for it, charge em. But damn, this kickstarter is focusing on it like its such a privilege to play an unfinished mmo.

 

Am cool with rewards tiers, I guess I'm just disgusted with how mmos and beta tests have turned out. Used to be something you'd want to invite experienced users to participate in and you would thank them for it. Now you sell it and the testers thank you for it.

 

Meh.

 

That's why I don't beta test anymore. I may pay money if I desire the early access, bonuses and whatever else. But I would not bother to report a single bug as a paying customer. No way I'll give my money to a company so I can than work for them for free!!

If they paid me to test than I'd be their best beta tester, and for free access I'd be a good beta tester.

 

It's already been said by MJ in another post than beta, alpha and IT testing will be available without paying by participating in the forum : http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/380823/-Reward-Tiers-Part-1.html (post #26)

 

About the scam thing, i really don't think it'll be one. First, the foundational principle include things that will send a part of customers away, and a part that seems the easiest to trick (thinking about the 12 - 15 years old players that want easy leveling and "easy in" "easy out" RvR, which MJ clearly said there WON'T be. Hear me there, i'm not saying all 12 - 15 players are like that, but they are more inclined to believe what you say).

Second, it was already said, but MJ has a career and won't be screwing it for just a 2M scam.

Finally, i'm sure he could have got much more than 2M if he just said "i'll do DAoC's spiritual successor", which he clearly denied.

 

 

Now, who said it was stupid to pay for the production of the game without getting money back as an investor would? I don't know for you, but i'm not paying to have money, i'm paying to play the game. I won't have any money back? What do i care, i would have used it to play the game.

And the fact is than if the game go the way it seems to be going already, it will be the best i will be able to find, so any money i would make with it wouldn't allow me to play something better. Really useless, unless you are not a gamer and just try to make easy money.

 

Wait. After saying all that, something poped in my mind.

 

Would you happens to be one of those gold seller that is pissed because you won't be able to do it in this game? Now that would make sense than you can't understand the value of playing experience over money.

 

Well, this is just a guess, and i may be wrong. But if you are trying to prevent us from donating to a game we look forward to, it means than you have to hate it, and i would be pleased if you could stop doing so.

The scam argument has enough counter to it to feel pretty safe, so if you just cared about us and tried to warn us not to get tricked, you can rest assured than if it is actually a scam it was really well done and you did everything you could to help us.

  Oldskoo

Novice Member

Joined: 2/12/13
Posts: 190

4/02/13 8:45:03 AM#80
Originally posted by Ziftylrhavic
Originally posted by StarI
Originally posted by Hokibukisa

I guess if people are willing to pay for it, charge em. But damn, this kickstarter is focusing on it like its such a privilege to play an unfinished mmo.

 

Am cool with rewards tiers, I guess I'm just disgusted with how mmos and beta tests have turned out. Used to be something you'd want to invite experienced users to participate in and you would thank them for it. Now you sell it and the testers thank you for it.

 

Meh.

 

That's why I don't beta test anymore. I may pay money if I desire the early access, bonuses and whatever else. But I would not bother to report a single bug as a paying customer. No way I'll give my money to a company so I can than work for them for free!!

If they paid me to test than I'd be their best beta tester, and for free access I'd be a good beta tester.

 

It's already been said by MJ in another post than beta, alpha and IT testing will be available without paying by participating in the forum : http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/380823/-Reward-Tiers-Part-1.html (post #26)

 

About the scam thing, i really don't think it'll be one. First, the foundational principle include things that will send a part of customers away, and a part that seems the easiest to trick (thinking about the 12 - 15 years old players that want easy leveling and "easy in" "easy out" RvR, which MJ clearly said there WON'T be. Hear me there, i'm not saying all 12 - 15 players are like that, but they are more inclined to believe what you say).

Second, it was already said, but MJ has a career and won't be screwing it for just a 2M scam.

Finally, i'm sure he could have got much more than 2M if he just said "i'll do DAoC's spiritual successor", which he clearly denied.

 

 

Now, who said it was stupid to pay for the production of the game without getting money back as an investor would? I don't know for you, but i'm not paying to have money, i'm paying to play the game. I won't have any money back? What do i care, i would have used it to play the game.

And the fact is than if the game go the way it seems to be going already, it will be the best i will be able to find, so any money i would make with it wouldn't allow me to play something better. Really useless, unless you are not a gamer and just try to make easy money.

 

Wait. After saying all that, something poped in my mind.

 

Would you happens to be one of those gold seller that is pissed because you won't be able to do it in this game? Now that would make sense than you can't understand the value of playing experience over money.

 

Well, this is just a guess, and i may be wrong. But if you are trying to prevent us from donating to a game we look forward to, it means than you have to hate it, and i would be pleased if you could stop doing so.

The scam argument has enough counter to it to feel pretty safe, so if you just cared about us and tried to warn us not to get tricked, you can rest assured than if it is actually a scam it was really well done and you did everything you could to help us.

+1 I like this guy. Good post!

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