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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » MMORPG Subs vs Micro-Transactions

20 posts found
  LoganKonlan

Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/09
Posts: 27

 
OP  3/31/13 1:39:48 PM#1

I was reading an article on this site today about a new MMORPG in which the "cringe-worthy" cash shop will be used since the subscription based business model is "dead."

I was pondering whether or not I agree. I am MORE than happy to plunk down $15-$20 a month for a MMORPG that's "worth it." I did it for many years. However, there aren't any games lately that I've subbed. But I would. I.E. I've been playing TERA (plesantly surprised with it) and I'm considering the Elite sub. I'm even considering going back to RIFT or....shh, don't tell anyone, WoW.

Is the sub business model really dead or is that just an excuse to churn out mediocre games and simply hope that a few people want pink fairy wings or a cuddly panda pet??

I say, "give me the game worth paying for and I'll pay."

If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand.

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2318

3/31/13 1:43:11 PM#2
Originally posted by LoganKonlan

I was reading an article on this site today about a new MMORPG in which the "cringe-worthy" cash shop will be used since the subscription based business model is "dead."

I was pondering whether or not I agree. I am MORE than happy to plunk down $15-$20 a month for a MMORPG that's "worth it." I did it for many years. However, there aren't any games lately that I've subbed. But I would. I.E. I've been playing TERA (plesantly surprised with it) and I'm considering the Elite sub. I'm even considering going back to RIFT or....shh, don't tell anyone, WoW.

Is the sub business model really dead or is that just an excuse to churn out mediocre games and simply hope that a few people want pink fairy wings or a cuddly panda pet??

I say, "give me the game worth paying for and I'll pay."

Unless the game is of exceptional quality (think SWG or UO without all the bugs/exploits) or has a damn good reason for being sub-based (such as EVE Online's economy being indirectly tied to the sub/plex system) then it should be F2P or freemium in today's market.

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3541

3/31/13 1:47:37 PM#3
Personally i like the transaction system because it is no temptation for me....i dont need the fastest horse, coolest outfit, biggest sword, or whatever else they may offer....The reason why I dont like p2p is that I have no option, I have to pay to play and when I stop I can no longer play.
  laokoko

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/09
Posts: 1845

3/31/13 2:11:40 PM#4

ya I mean "a mmorpg which is worth it"...  the reality is most players are never satified.

Besides, how do you know if a mmorpg is worth it without trying?  Which is where the f2p kicks in.

and UO and SWG is dead.. those game are so good you dont play it.  And dont tell me because their update sucks, which goes to players are never satified, which is the problem.

  Hedeon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/05
Posts: 889

3/31/13 2:20:55 PM#5

when I started play MMOs alone the fact that you had to pay more after paying for the box, were a stone on the road for me, and then later get to pay for expansion, and still sub.

even now when telling about how many times Ive paid for my MMO time, people think Im crazy....

either way Ive got to the point where I accept subs, but my problem is when developers charge box price + subribtion + expansions and then all of a sudden think it is okay to ask for money for "non essentials".  that is when a game no longer is a game for me - or as other people put it, ruin their immersion.

I hate games where it feel like you get asked, if you want to buy something, on a regular basis...especially when I feel like Ive bought the game already + once a quater

  Sevenstar61

Elite Member

Joined: 7/22/12
Posts: 1421

"But it was so artistically done..." - Grand Admiral Thrawn's final words

3/31/13 2:26:30 PM#6

Players want everything for free and they are not staying with the games for as long time as it was in the past. There are just so many new MMOs you would be hard pressed not to try others.

That means that days of  subscriprion only MMOs are over. WoW is an anomaly and no MMO can repeat it's success. The future will be or sub + some kind of F2P or B2P or F2P. All of these will have microtransactions.

And it's too bad. I much prefer P2P games, but I realise it's impossible to keep this model in current time.


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  Panther2103

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/09/08
Posts: 1948

3/31/13 2:32:31 PM#7
Originally posted by Sevenstar61

Players want everything for free and they are not staying with the games for as long time as it was in the past. There are just so many new MMOs you would be hard pressed not to try others.

That means that days of  subscriprion only MMOs are over. WoW is an anomaly and no MMO can repeat it's success. The future will be or sub + some kind of F2P or B2P or F2P. All of these will have microtransactions.

And it's too bad. I much prefer P2P games, but I realise it's impossible to keep this model in current time.

Yeah way too many games are coming out to stick with one at a time unless you are really sold on it. Which doesn't happen usually unless the game is 6 months to a year into a life cycle so it has all of the content it promised. At one point I had 4 mmo subs going at once, and I really don't have money to do that anymore. So if I need to try something new I usually attempt F2P games.

  Jojin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/25/06
Posts: 118

3/31/13 2:40:03 PM#8

I don't think the subscription model is dead.  If anything all the different models are being considered when games are developed today.

MMORPG did an interview with a Jeremy Gaffney from Wildstar.  He spoke quite well towards pricing models in regards to Subs and free to play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ct9Ogn7AazM#t=1565s

 

  Illius

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 3903

I intend to live forever -- So far so good!

3/31/13 5:20:06 PM#9

In the past I have always played a subscription based MMO and had stuck whith those for quite a long time (read years).  But after those games ran their course I stopped paying for them and stopped playing.  They lost their fun and I moved on.  I never felt pressured to keep paying for a game that I did not enjoy regardless of it being free to play or subscription type.

In the past I had games that would hold my interest for years and I didn't mind paying for them but nowadays as I try the free to play games I have never once been tempted to pay for any of their services or ever considered signing up for their subscription offer.  To me most modern games lack the pull that the older ones had for me and I don't blame people for game hopping because perhaps they feel like I do.  I tried Tera for a while and as fun as it was it fizzled out within 3 weeks.  Both my friend and I ended up walking away roughly about the same time because we just didn't find it all that fun.  This seems to be quite common as of late.

More often than not I will pick up a free to play game, play it as if it were single player just to see what the writers came up with regarding the story behind whatever the hell I am doing.  I may or may not get to the end of t he story but even if I do it pretty much ends there.  The desire to play it beyond that point just isn't there anymore. 

This is why I go back to some of the old games I used to play and just play them.  I can sit back, relax, and play with other people that want to do just that.  Nobody's rushing anywhere, or trying to beat the clock and just having fun in a relaxed environment.

No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-

  ClaudeSuamOram

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 134

3/31/13 6:45:31 PM#10
Originally posted by Theocritus
Personally i like the transaction system because it is no temptation for me....i dont need the fastest horse, coolest outfit, biggest sword, or whatever else they may offer....The reason why I dont like p2p is that I have no option, I have to pay to play and when I stop I can no longer play.

But the reason it exists is because the larger majority do seem to need that stuff...1st and fast.

  Bladestrom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 2732

3/31/13 6:58:13 PM#11
The simple way that peeps should look at this is to forget parnt model type and work out the average cost per year - then compare value. At the moment sub games are incredibly expensive. If sub games cost say £4 a month then it would be irrelevant what model is used.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (9500 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(850 elementalist)

Now playing GW2/vanilla wow

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 2705

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

3/31/13 7:48:12 PM#12


Originally posted by LoganKonlan
I was reading an article on this site today about a new MMORPG in which the "cringe-worthy" cash shop will be used since the subscription based business model is "dead."

I was pondering whether or not I agree. I am MORE than happy to plunk down $15-$20 a month for a MMORPG that's "worth it." I did it for many years. However, there aren't any games lately that I've subbed. But I would. I.E. I've been playing TERA (plesantly surprised with it) and I'm considering the Elite sub. I'm even considering going back to RIFT or....shh, don't tell anyone, WoW.

Is the sub business model really dead or is that just an excuse to churn out mediocre games and simply hope that a few people want pink fairy wings or a cuddly panda pet??

I say, "give me the game worth paying for and I'll pay."
For me, like you, there are no games worthy of subbing to right now, in my opinion.

A sub-based MMORPG needs a living, breathing world where my character (and I) can find a home.

Many people mistake quick and dirty games as supporting players' dislike of sub models. If a developer and publisher made a deep game, they may find that many players may actually pay a sub to play it.

I miss the days when every player bought the box and paid the same monthly fee for their play. A player's personal wealth never factored into it, only their desire to play. The players were all on equal footing and any accomplishment meant something. When a player bought the box, they got the whole game, not just the majority of pieces of it.

People still pay subs for SW:TOR, WoW, TSW, EQ1 & 2, UO, and many, many other games. Unfortunately, every last one of those games also has a cash shop. There is a desire to pay subs for MMOS.

Originally posted by Hedeon
when I started play MMOs alone the fact that you had to pay more after paying for the box, were a stone on the road for me, and then later get to pay for expansion, and still sub.

even now when telling about how many times Ive paid for my MMO time, people think Im crazy....

either way Ive got to the point where I accept subs, but my problem is when developers charge box price + subribtion + expansions and then all of a sudden think it is okay to ask for money for "non essentials". that is when a game no longer is a game for me - or as other people put it, ruin their immersion.

I hate games where it feel like you get asked, if you want to buy something, on a regular basis...especially when I feel like Ive bought the game already + once a quater



I also dislike paying for expansions. If my monthly sub is not enough to cover future content, the game needs to re-evaluate its financials.

Of course, it is all about making the most money they can. What "we", as players, allow they will do. In abundance. So we now have many box + sub (optional) +cash shop models available to us now.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  LoganKonlan

Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/09
Posts: 27

 
OP  3/31/13 7:53:52 PM#13


Originally posted by Theocritus
Personally i like the transaction system because it is no temptation for me....i dont need the fastest horse, coolest outfit, biggest sword, or whatever else they may offer....The reason why I dont like p2p is that I have no option, I have to pay to play and when I stop I can no longer play.

I agree.

I had looked into Path of Exile (think Diablo) MMO and I really liked their transaction based approach for cosmetic items only. Actually, I'm not opposed to even micro-trans for inventory expansion as in GW2 or Atlantica...unless the inventory space is SO restricted that I have NO choice but to purchase space.

As some have stated though, this buy box + sub + expansion most likely is a dead model. I think the games I avoid are the ones that allow those that pay $$ to have an advantage over a more skilled player, esp. in pvp. But, I suppose if everyone knows that's a possibility and still play a game, so be it.

If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand.

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

4/01/13 1:50:16 AM#14
Originally posted by LoganKonlan

I was reading an article on this site today about a new MMORPG in which the "cringe-worthy" cash shop will be used since the subscription based business model is "dead."

I was pondering whether or not I agree. I am MORE than happy to plunk down $15-$20 a month for a MMORPG that's "worth it." I did it for many years. However, there aren't any games lately that I've subbed. But I would. I.E. I've been playing TERA (plesantly surprised with it) and I'm considering the Elite sub. I'm even considering going back to RIFT or....shh, don't tell anyone, WoW.

Is the sub business model really dead or is that just an excuse to churn out mediocre games and simply hope that a few people want pink fairy wings or a cuddly panda pet??

I say, "give me the game worth paying for and I'll pay."

 

 

No...   subscription based MMORPG's are not dead... 

That article meant that most of the game's developed today are not worthy of a subscription base model and why most have gone gadget-shop & F2P, etc..

 

ArcheAge is a new MMORPG that will be worthy of a subscription to their gameworld.

 

 

I do agree...  I'd easy drop $20, or even $35/month for a Premium MMORPG. Though, at that price range I would expect active Guides & Gm's in game, roleplaying like in early EQ days, etc.

 

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  Instigator-Jones

Elite Member

Joined: 2/07/13
Posts: 244

4/01/13 1:58:09 AM#15
Originally posted by Phelcher
Originally posted by LoganKonlan

I was reading an article on this site today about a new MMORPG in which the "cringe-worthy" cash shop will be used since the subscription based business model is "dead."

I was pondering whether or not I agree. I am MORE than happy to plunk down $15-$20 a month for a MMORPG that's "worth it." I did it for many years. However, there aren't any games lately that I've subbed. But I would. I.E. I've been playing TERA (plesantly surprised with it) and I'm considering the Elite sub. I'm even considering going back to RIFT or....shh, don't tell anyone, WoW.

Is the sub business model really dead or is that just an excuse to churn out mediocre games and simply hope that a few people want pink fairy wings or a cuddly panda pet??

I say, "give me the game worth paying for and I'll pay."

 

 

No...   subscription based MMORPG's are not dead... 

That article meant that most of the game's developed today are not worthy of a subscription base model and why most have gone gadget-ship & F2P, etc..

 

ArcheAge is a new MMORPG that will be worthy of a subscription to their gameworld.

 

 

I do agree...  I'd easy drop $20, or even $35/month of a Premium MMORPG. Though, at that price range I would expect active Guides & Gm's in game, roleplaying like in early EQ days, etc.

 

If I were to drop that much cheddar on an MMORPG (" $20, or even $35/month of a Premium MMORPG") then there better in NO WAY be a cash shop associated. Although, I don't think we're head'n that way. IMHO, we'll see the sub base morph into a BTP and cash shop for support; I can get behind that. I cannot get behind another monthly bill that puts me into a community like what WOW has become.

  muffins89

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1247

4/01/13 2:07:21 AM#16
sub please.  games with micro-transactions are designed to get you to spend money.  i'll glady take a flat monthy fee over being nickel and dimed while having to put up with tedious unecessary game mechanics. for example limited bag/bank space.

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  zekeofev

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/28/11
Posts: 220

4/01/13 2:16:24 AM#17

I really dislike when money seperates the player base. I perfer to know I am on equal footing in my MMOS, especially after I tried a few of the free to play MMOs out there.

 

I dislike the idea of paid zones, or items that grant power or extra unlocking speed to a player. I understand that many can put up with these differences in a playerbase, but it annoys the hell out of me.

 

Micro transaction games usually sell power in some form (even if its faster XP, or more options, which is simply horizonal power), the ones that stick to pure cosmetics are extremely extremely few.

 

 

I also really prefer a game trying to make me want to spend more time on the game rather than a game pushing the cash shop at my face all of the time.

Thus, I perfer subs.

  Yaevindusk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1101

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

4/01/13 2:29:06 AM#18

 

I actually wrote something in regards to this, based only my perceptions and what I've read about payment models over the past years on this and other sites.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Yaevindusk/032013/24782_A-brief-analysis-of-MMOs-and-contextual-payment-plans-Why-World-of-Warcraft-may-want-The-Elders-Scrolls-to-go-P2P-updated

It mainly speaking of context and places ESO in the spotlight, but as a whole was somewhat intended to be a guide to payment models in general from a single player's perspective.  If someone's already read it here, I've recently updated it once I realized I published the second rough draft instead of the final one.  :3

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  sanshi44

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1022

4/01/13 2:40:24 AM#19

Im more than happy to pay a sub for a game aslong as its worth paying for. The only problem is there hasnt been a game worth paying a sub fee for since 2004/2005 the games from vanilla WoW and before were worth the sub fees but since then the Devs havant realy put any work on making games they just try and make a game with least amount of work and expect it to be as popular as WoW is.

There one game made in the last 8 years or so they i would pay a sub for and thats Darkfall simply because its a one of a kind game pritty much and you can have microtransactions in this type of game without ruining it. The Devs could be better but i think its largly due to expecting tomuch from a company on consist of 50 or so people compared to AAA companies.

Micro transactions are fine aslong as its spending money on the cash shop give u a advantage over those who dont, cosmetic market places like Guildwars 2 works well imo.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17953

4/01/13 11:20:34 AM#20

The sub model is dead.

The industry trend is clear. F2P is gaining in both players and revenue vs P2P.

Personally, i won't play a sub game again. There is just no need. There are plenty of fun games that have no sub.