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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Dungeons & Dragons Online: Cash 4 Gear

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49 posts found
  crazynanny

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/10
Posts: 175

3/29/13 5:34:36 PM#21

So in other words this is actually worse version of Blizzard RMAH, that everyone and their dog hated so much?

 

At least in D3 you could get some cash out of it too, here only Turbine gets it all, as I assume that you can't use those shards outside the game? Not to mention it's an MMO unlike D3 where you can solo 100% content(so there is zero influence on you whether someone buys gear for $ or not). Not that I care much about either, just note that in this case company is even more greedy then Blizzard.

 

Now this isn't new "feature" as some big and successful MMOs have it as mentioned EVE or Guild Wars 2. Guess it feels more fair there as GW2 has no monthly fee(and no premium accounts) and in EVE you  can play for free that way, so you can understand that those companies want a some profit too. Here it's more obvious cash grab.

 

Now whether it's P2W or not depends on gear you that you can buy on such RMAH and whether the game world is persistant(I assume yes as it's MMO). If you can buy same gear as you can find in game in some reasonable time(2-3 hours/2-3 dungeon runs) I don't care. But if you can skip say weeks of  gameplay aka buy the current best raid drop, that's  too much. At least that's how I see it.

  Storman1977

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/06
Posts: 202

3/29/13 5:38:31 PM#22

Well, as far as I can tell, top tier gear in most games is locked behind some quest mechanic, usually raiding. As for first life gear disappearing from the regular AH, the really good gear has been gone for quite a while. It was either traded in private channels or done so in the quests that they drop. With the ADAH, this becomes a situation where the true, top end raid gear becomes trade capable. Before now, the majority of top end gear was bound to account or bound to character.

And as to the raiding mechanic being a barrier, I find that hard to believe. DDO is not like WoW where you need to gather 24+ people and then fight with them once the boss fight is over in hopes of reaching the drop first. In DDO, a raid is only 12 people and they all have their loot drops sorted out individually. There is also no one piece of gear that any class HAS to have. While there is plenty of desired gear, not having something will not bar a player from progressing.

  furbans

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 883

3/29/13 7:05:45 PM#23

 

[mod edit]

 

Cash 4 Gear has been around since vanilla WoW for decades now, this is entirely nothing new.  What Turbine did was include it as part of their market/AH system.  You can earn astral shards via ingame through favor or sellin the gear which one can easily buy said gear off the AH with in game money and turn around and sell it on the astral exchange or obtain it through normal means of doing the quest.  Not to mention more ways to obtain Astral Shards will be included in the game.  Unlike Neverwinter which so far it's so grindy that they practically force players to buy AD which in turn can buy better gear (hell even the rolled gear in dungeons ends up being a free for all since nothing is class specific and is BoE which just makes it a free for all), a 2 million AD cost mount which one is forced to buy with real money since one only gets a whopping 1k AD for skirmishes during the event.  Not to mention the Zen store exclusive products.  At least with DDO one can earn TP via favor to purchase anything offered in the store including Astral Shards.

 

I don't agree with what they did but at least they make it optional.  One can use the market to get the astral shards they want for the gear they want or use the TP they earn for it, and that's not including the monster manual to earn astral shards or the daily die lotto or the future methods to earn astral shards which was stated will be coming.  Games like Neverwinter where everyway you look one is nickled and dimed with AD for either runes stones, mounts, mount training, quality gear, AH (which in dungeon gear being BoE and no class restriction along with lvl restrictions good luck on getting the gear for your class lol), and who know what else.

  firefly2003

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/16/08
Posts: 2571

I miss you Star Wars Galaxies...:(

3/30/13 12:01:35 AM#24
Ahh people that play the market and manipulate auction house prices for their benefit I suppose in a loot based economny it works to their advantage in Star Wars Galaxies that didnt work to their advantage too much when you controlled who could come into your shop people that did that quickly went into my ban from shop list and quickly passed the word to other traders and crafters about greedy people wanting to gouge people who didnt know any better. Since everything that was bought from your shop had a name ID attached on who bought it was easy to find the d-bags doing that nonsense.
  dgarbini

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/05
Posts: 186

3/30/13 3:29:34 AM#25

In the old days of MMO's buy and selling equipment was common.  So lets say we want to buy this sword that costs 100 gold.  Firstly the sale price is configured by basic supply and demand of the players no outside involvement.  So to earn this 100 gold, you can play some time farm some money or you can outsource that work to a gold farmer and buy it from him.

 

Today we have the same system of buying gear for money.  One sword, 100 gold.  To get that money you can again grind or pay a gold farmer to grind for you.  But there is one more option you can now pay the company directly to get the gold.  Essentailly the game companies have cut out the middle man of the gold farmer and took their place.  Sounds good enough, nobody will miss the spam and such.

 

Here is where the problem comes in.  Because the game company now sells you god directly they have an incentive for you to buy more of it.  A gold farmer has no control over the game, but the game company does.  So this leads itself to all kinds of potentially unethical hyjinks.  Such as that same sword for 100g well we need more money so lets tweak our drop rates to make it rarer, thus raising the price and making people spend more actual cash to get it.  Or people are getting gold to easily from grinding mobs, if this keeps up we will no longer be able to sell them our gold.  Lets make grining more time cosuming or difficult.  Or lets make the leveling process/quests less rewarding, thus to get what you want, you have to spend an insane amount of time getting it or you can just more easily pay us.  Its way to easy for companies to manipulate the economies to their financial benifit and against yours, in secret with no checks and balances.

 

This had been a big problem in GW2 when I was playing it, and the trend seems to be getting worse/stronger.  Its a great way for companies to make extra money and since it is secret most of the player base will not realize how manipulated they are.  It is dirty business and untransparent.  And I personally will not buy into this concept.

  hfztt

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 614

3/30/13 3:49:16 AM#26
Funny you mentioned EVE. PLEX to AUR conversion is actaully comparable to this. Of course the player reaction to AUR was LOL, and it was ignored by players. Today AUR in EVE is a nearly unused feature that reminds players of a past where CCP thought they could get away with selling them more than just game-time...
  psychobgr

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/14/12
Posts: 128

3/30/13 6:02:19 AM#27
Originally posted by sithangel1
I am so tired of people saying this is bad and that is bad but still suckle at the teat. I think that paying for what you want as opposed to getting raped by ninjas and raid monkeys is a better idea. It doesn't break a game or make a game. I would rather pay for a weapon or piece or armor I wanted in a F2P than pay a monthly fee to constantly have someone ninja or roll for something they don't need just to scam you out of your gold coins. Blizzard even had their own people data mining Diablo 3 to get the items and sell them on AH at vastly inflated prices to line their own pockets. So this discussion is a moot point. You don't like it, don't play it. Shut up and let others that want to play that way do so.
 
Pay to win is not good and Blizzard are now regretting putting the auction house in and the real money AH saying that it has damaged the game, they are also leaving it out completely in the playstation 3 and PS4 versions of Diablo 3. If you want instant gratification then play a single player game.

 

 
 
 
  Redline65

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/06
Posts: 488

3/30/13 7:41:48 AM#28
Originally posted by erictlewis

We all seen this comming for well over 2 years now, and for those folks who plat lotro, remember when I told you that lotro would go free to play after ddo did.  Well you are about to see something the same happen in lotro.

Yep. This is why LOTRO added mithril coins to the game. Just wait for the real money auction house to come next.

  Azarten

Novice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 34

3/30/13 11:30:31 AM#29

Why would anyone be surprised by this type of monetization progression in a F2P game.  The F2P model only works if the game company can keep people paying and one off payment items can only make them so much before all the potential buyers already have them.  So therefore what is required to keep the money flowing in, new items that people will want or new monetization methods.

 

But why should people have to pay is what the F2P crowd is usually decrying right, well here's just some of the ongoing requirements for running an MMO:

* Servers hosting - Cost is dependant on size and speed required;

* Wages - Devs (obviously), Managers, Accountants, HR, IT Support, Customer Service, Community Managers, etc;

* Rent - Building including power costs, etc;

* Hardware - Either purchased or rented;

* Internet - Required by most employees;

* Phones - Land line as well as mobile phone costs;

* Working capital - You need constant cash flow in order to pay bills, wages, etc on time;

* Building Insurance - All the companies office contents, etc;

* Liability insurance - Getting sued without it could spell the end of your company.

All of these and more are ongoing costs/requirements for running an MMO.

 

Even those that think B2P alone is all a company should require after release are incredibly naive.  The company has just spent the last 2-5 years creating the game without any incoming customer funds, so that B2P must first cover those costs before they make any profit whatsoever and then after release take away from that the ongoing costs.  Sounds like an unsustainable business model to me.

Outlaying money each month without a decent return on that expenditure regardless of business model does not tend to go over very well with shareholders, the result usually being the demise of that game.

  Xstatic912

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/20/11
Posts: 367

3/30/13 4:14:21 PM#30
So most cry foul of sub fees and now the alternative is taking shape.. Guess they'll be more crying.. But honestly what did you guys expect was going to happen, f2p games can't keep all the staff on no income unless switch to a yearly expansion cycle.. As some have said in earlier posts, they don't mind paying because it's less headache to get that item you've been wanting... With games getting more expensive and players not wanting sub etc, this model will become the dominant model until gamers wise up and start boycotting titles that does it.. There's also some of this on console games too so it's spreading slowly...
  McGamer

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/05
Posts: 1035

"Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to Suffering" -Master Yoda

3/30/13 6:52:12 PM#31

Yet people still try to deny that Turbine games, all of them except of course that dinosaur of a game, Asheron's Call, are pay-to-win games. They will never see anymore of my money and neither will any other MMO that tries to go that route.

 

It all pretty much started getting worse in cash shops with WoW charging RL money in their cash shop for the first buyable mount they have. Many other devs thought that if Blizzard does it that its alright. Well I stopped playing WoW back then partly due to that and still don't play that game to this day.

 

Many people claim this a lot, but I truly vote with my wallet and others should as well if they care about the future of video games. 

 

Based on that practice, there are 4 dev companies I do not buy from due to their greedy nature. That being Turbine, EA, Blizzard, & SOE. 

 

Hopefully the newer companies can learn from the mistakes of the others mentioned.

 
 
 
  severius

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/10/04
Posts: 1527

3/30/13 9:29:56 PM#32
  Could you imagine sitting at a table and the DM says $20 for the Vorpal Sword?  That would've been one helluva lonely DM.  


  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/30/13 10:00:37 PM#33
Originally posted by severius
  Could you imagine sitting at a table and the DM says $20 for the Vorpal Sword?  That would've been one helluva lonely DM.  

Are you on crack? Bribing the dm is a time honored tradition. Besides, that is not what is happening here, and attempting to color it as such is not helpful.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  winter

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2236

3/30/13 10:12:12 PM#34
Originally posted by Purutzil
They do this now? Well... DDO scratched off the list of games I will never play again...

  Interesting So if your scratching DDO off your list of games to never play a again that means you now plan on playing it? Hahaha.

  Noobkilar

Novice Member

Joined: 3/10/09
Posts: 186

3/31/13 1:38:56 AM#35

I am sorry but any game these days who cannot manage money, get in debt and decide cash shop is the option needs to burn in hell. There is no reason a game managed well and a reasonable sub fee cannot make it if people WORK HARD on keeping it updated and managed! Easy street is just to common anymore in 99.9% of mmo's being released and that quick money grab STILL FAILS in the end, *cough STO*

so what if you do not get 13 mil subs like wow or whatever who gives a rats *** make a good game for once people! I am willing to pay 15 bucks a month for quality but not 20-30 here and there every month for a turd of a game........we got facebook for that junk.

  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2666

3/31/13 4:40:46 AM#36
Originally posted by McGamer

Yet people still try to deny that Turbine games, all of them except of course that dinosaur of a game, Asheron's Call, are pay-to-win games. They will never see anymore of my money and neither will any other MMO that tries to go that route.

 

It all pretty much started getting worse in cash shops with WoW charging RL money in their cash shop for the first buyable mount they have. Many other devs thought that if Blizzard does it that its alright. Well I stopped playing WoW back then partly due to that and still don't play that game to this day.

 

Many people claim this a lot, but I truly vote with my wallet and others should as well if they care about the future of video games. 

 

Based on that practice, there are 4 dev companies I do not buy from due to their greedy nature. That being Turbine, EA, Blizzard, & SOE. 

 

Hopefully the newer companies can learn from the mistakes of the others mentioned.

 
 
 

Actually in this case EQ2 are the one to blame. They were the one who came up first with the idea to charge you $20 for a mount in their cash shop. Then it caught up. At least Blizzard offer a lot of of the proceeds from pets/mounts to charities. 

 

Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  odiasuda

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/25/12
Posts: 52

3/31/13 5:08:28 AM#37
Originally posted by Noobkilar

I am sorry but any game these days who cannot manage money, get in debt and decide cash shop is the option needs to burn in hell. There is no reason a game managed well and a reasonable sub fee cannot make it if people WORK HARD on keeping it updated and managed! Easy street is just to common anymore in 99.9% of mmo's being released and that quick money grab STILL FAILS in the end, *cough STO*

so what if you do not get 13 mil subs like wow or whatever who gives a rats *** make a good game for once people! I am willing to pay 15 bucks a month for quality but not 20-30 here and there every month for a turd of a game........we got facebook for that junk.

The problem with DDO is the core game sucks. No amount of good management will change that.  I'm surprised anyone still plays it.

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11416

3/31/13 8:00:48 AM#38
Originally posted by fivoroth

Actually in this case EQ2 are the one to blame. They were the one who came up first with the idea to charge you $20 for a mount in their cash shop. Then it caught up. At least Blizzard offer a lot of of the proceeds from pets/mounts to charities. 

SOE does virtual item charities too

http://www.anjelsyndicate.org/2011/12/07/soe-teams-up-with-childs-play-charity-again-this-year-get-cool-stuff/

 

when Blizzard did their sparkle pony mount -- zero went to charity

i cannot think of any blizzard mount where charity was involved

  hfztt

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 614

3/31/13 8:13:15 AM#39
Originally posted by McGamer

Yet people still try to deny that Turbine games, all of them except of course that dinosaur of a game, Asheron's Call, are pay-to-win games.

Sorry, but arguing that DDO is Pay2Win is a bit pointless, as it is not a competitive game...

Its kinda like moaning that buying a collectors edition of some single player game is Pay2Win be course you get special weapon not in the base game when you buy that. On one hand its kinda true, but on the other hand who cares, it only affects thier own game experince...

  hfztt

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 614

3/31/13 8:14:55 AM#40
Originally posted by odiasuda

The problem with DDO is the core game sucks. No amount of good management will change that.  I'm surprised anyone still plays it.

 

To each his taste I guess. I play this with my old D&D group friends and we enjoy the hell out of it.

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