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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Dear ZOS, Please Don't Let Paul Sage Wreck This Game...

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147 posts found
  Vendac

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 39

3/29/13 8:50:48 AM#121

Is it not time to make something different in an MMO?  The WoW formula has been done to death has it not?  People need something different to pull them away from what they are doing and then it needs to be good enough to get them to stay.

If ESO is not significantly different than what is out there, people will not play it, or they may play it for a short time and leave.  Look at games like Rift, GW2, etc as examples.  Rift is WoW 2.0 with alot less content.  People got bored of Rift and went back to WoW.  GW2 is a solid game at heart, but the end game is certainly not PvP and the PvE is meh at best.

Those that complain about PvP, yes this is a 3 realm game.  Yes, there are factions.  Do things like this build realm pride?  Damn right they do.  Should you be able to talk to the other realms, maybe.  Thats up to the devs.  Myself, I prefer the old school DAOC way where you killed someone, then went and taunted them on the VN Boards.  But that was a different time.  As far being able to play with the other factions in a huggy-feely love fest for PvE, I dont think they need to allow it.  All the classes are mirrored in this game, so other than to appease the the role playing crowd, there is no reason to allow the factions to mix with each other.

One thing that is almost guaranteed as that you will see some of the mechanics of DAOC come into this game as Matt Firor was one of the founders of Mythic and built what can still be considered one of the best PvP games ever in DAOC.  Taking some of these mechanics and incorporating them into ESO can only be a good thing.

You cant fix stupid - Ron White

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/29/13 8:59:27 AM#122
Originally posted by Dihoru

The more choice the better, if within your culture you dislike choice that does not mean it is a universal constant, true there's a very sizeable portion of the population which due to one reason or another won't like a total freedom of choice but to say that number is big enough to constitute a majority of the population is...laughable because the trend towards better education on all continents has given rise to an increase in the desire for choices. It is only the more base elements of a society which requires hand holding and being told what to think, eat, breath and hate and those base elements more often than not are a product of societal pressure than evolution.

 

To put it even more bluntly: If things were as you stated why in recent years have so many things suddenly and irrevocably shifted despite your mindset that more choice is worse than less? (these shifts are because people have chosen things which were outside the normal set of choices given to them by the status quo within their geographical/societal/political area).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_776297&feature=iv&src_vid=uKByBgqxOw4&v=VO6XEQIsCoM

The argument he presents (you can find much of the data with just a little bit of google work) says otherwise. Like I said, if you wish to change my mind show me some data. Show me a different argument other than random guy on the internet says something.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1118

3/29/13 9:02:28 AM#123
Originally posted by Livnthedream

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_776297&feature=iv&src_vid=uKByBgqxOw4&v=VO6XEQIsCoM

The argument he presents (you can find much of the data with just a little bit of google work) says otherwise. Like I said, if you wish to change my mind show me some data. Show me a different argument other than random guy on the internet says something.

Ironic really because to me, you and the guy in the video are both random guys on the internet.

Can I make a wild guess that you are studying some sort of sociology course at the moment and because fresh in your studies you think these video's you post mean something more then someone expressing an opinion?

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/29/13 9:05:05 AM#124

Ironic really because to me, you and the guy in the video are both random guys on the internet.

Can I make a wild guess that you are studying some sort of sociology course at the moment and because fresh in your studies you think these video's you post mean something more then someone expressing an opinion?

He holds a BA and a Phd, and is a professor at a prestigious school. He is far from "random".

 

Naw, looking into psychology is nothing but a hobby. Understanding why and what people do can be rather important in the line of work I am going into.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1118

3/29/13 9:11:18 AM#125
Originally posted by Livnthedream

Ironic really because to me, you and the guy in the video are both random guys on the internet.

Can I make a wild guess that you are studying some sort of sociology course at the moment and because fresh in your studies you think these video's you post mean something more then someone expressing an opinion?

He holds a BA and a Phd, and is a professor at a prestigious school. He is far from "random".

 

Naw, looking into psychology is nothing but a hobby. Understanding why and what people do can be rather important in the line of work I am going into.

Well to me he is random. What he says makes sence in a clinical abstract way. And I guess to people who can't make up their mind he might be right. Not to me though, sorry.

And using a quote from your video, you might be happy with TESO having faction locks but I am not happy to simply say "You'll do". I know what I want, I don't have low expectations, I just have defined expectations. You can keep youre low expectations and play any dross that gets produced but I will not.

Oh, and way to go to make such a simple thing as a design option in a video game into some dramatic life or death philosophical and social experiment into the human psyche!

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17074

3/29/13 9:13:45 AM#126
Originally posted by Vendac

Is it not time to make something different in an MMO?  The WoW formula has been done to death has it not?  People need something different to pull them away from what they are doing and then it needs to be good enough to get them to stay.

If ESO is not significantly different than what is out there, people will not play it, or they may play it for a short time and leave.  Look at games like Rift, GW2, etc as examples.  Rift is WoW 2.0 with alot less content.  People got bored of Rift and went back to WoW.  GW2 is a solid game at heart, but the end game is certainly not PvP and the PvE is meh at best.

Those that complain about PvP, yes this is a 3 realm game.  Yes, there are factions.  Do things like this build realm pride?  Damn right they do.  Should you be able to talk to the other realms, maybe.  Thats up to the devs.  Myself, I prefer the old school DAOC way where you killed someone, then went and taunted them on the VN Boards.  But that was a different time.  As far being able to play with the other factions in a huggy-feely love fest for PvE, I dont think they need to allow it.  All the classes are mirrored in this game, so other than to appease the the role playing crowd, there is no reason to allow the factions to mix with each other.

One thing that is almost guaranteed as that you will see some of the mechanics of DAOC come into this game as Matt Firor was one of the founders of Mythic and built what can still be considered one of the best PvP games ever in DAOC.  Taking some of these mechanics and incorporating them into ESO can only be a good thing.

Ok, but there's nothing about "Elder Scrolls" in your post. You are "about DAoC". This is the crux of the matter.

Now,I have no problem with 3 Faction pvp or ffa pvp or any type of pvp. But since the series was about exploration, making your character into what you want it to be, going where you want to go and doing what you want to do it's difficult to then be greeted with "Hey guys, they are finally making an elder scrolls game... AND THE WORLD IS GOING TO BE CUT UP AND PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE FORCED INTO FACTIONS YAY!!!!!!"

Sorry but it's a bit anachronistic for a series that was about choice.

And I don't see these arguments from the "three faction pvp crowd " (I can assume that it's a DAoC crowd but that might not be the case) arguing that this model will make for a better elder scrolls experience. It's all about it making the game a better DAoC 2.0

So sure, this is how they have made it, I completely understand, as others have said, that if you are going to make a 3 faction pvp game one might want to follow a format the was known to work. But again, it's not really beyond the pale that there are elder scrolls fans scratching their heads asking "why are we talking about this again?"

edit: and for the record I am satisfied with the way that they currently opened up the game world as a concession as I am not one that believes a consensus between two opposign sides isn't without give and take.

It's still not going to stop me from expressing my real desire to have a full fledged Elder Srolls game based on choice.

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2887

3/29/13 9:17:28 AM#127
Originally posted by Livnthedream

Ironic really because to me, you and the guy in the video are both random guys on the internet.

Can I make a wild guess that you are studying some sort of sociology course at the moment and because fresh in your studies you think these video's you post mean something more then someone expressing an opinion?

He holds a BA and a Phd, and is a professor at a prestigious school. He is far from "random".

 

Naw, looking into psychology is nothing but a hobby. Understanding why and what people do can be rather important in the line of work I am going into.

Psychology has been repeatedly proven to be at best a imprecise science, at worse a pseudo-science so excuse the people who have a little more than a "see this guy has a phd and knows shit!" argument. I've know people both younger and way older than you who've shown more than just a passing tendency to choose their own courses in life regardless of the currents society imposes on their generation and I've seen that the number of people who do this is a Hell of allot bigger than what it was when I was younger. Have fun posting youtube vids with jaded knowitalls though, pshychology has always been a running joke to anyone with an IQ north of 120.

  Hjamnr

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/29/13
Posts: 174

3/29/13 9:22:43 AM#128
Originally posted by Sovrath    Ok, but there's nothing about "Elder Scrolls" in your post. You are "about DAoC". This is the crux of the matter.

Now,I have no problem with 3 Faction pvp or ffa pvp or any type of pvp. But since the series was about exploration, making your character into what you want it to be, going where you want to go and doing what you want to do it's difficult to then be greeted with "Hey guys, they are finally making an elder scrolls game... AND THE WORLD IS GOING TO BE CUT UP AND PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE FORCED INTO FACTIONS YAY!!!!!!"

Sorry but it's a bit anachronistic for a series that was about choice.

And I don't see these arguments from the "three faction pvp crowd " (I can assume that it's a DAoC crowd but that might not be the case) arguing that this model will make for a better elder scrolls experience. It's all about it making the game a better DAoC 2.0

So sure, this is how they have made it, I completely understand, as others have said, that if you are going to make a 3 faction pvp game one might want to follow a format the was known to work. But again, it's not really beyond the pale that there are elder scrolls fans scratching their heads asking "why are we talking about this again?"

With any transition from one medium to another, there are always compromises which have to be made.  You see this in book->movie translations all the time.

Elder Scrolls fans need to realize that this cannot be Skyrim, but that you play with other people.  It just wouldn't work, akin to trying to put the entirety of "iRobot" onto the big screen... it'd be like 6 hours long, and be hard to follow.  There have to be changes, to fit the MMORPG format.  If you're going to put PvP in this game, (which you pretty much have to, these days, to have any potential longevity) the best model, with the most proven longevity and retention, is the model which was used by Mythic in thier first MMORPG. 

Thankfully, we have Matt, one of the founders of Mythic, running the show at ZMO, to properly guide this design.

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/29/13 9:28:16 AM#129
Originally posted by Maelwydd

Well to me he is random. What he says makes sence in a clinical abstract way. And I guess to people who can't make up their mind he might be right. Not to me though, sorry.

Wait, so you already know the answer to every dicision you will ever make? Then why are you here again?

And using a quote from your video, you might be happy with TESO having faction locks but I am not happy to simply say "You'll do". I know what I want, I don't have low expectations, I just have defined expectations. You can keep youre low expectations and play any dross that gets produced but I will not.

Wait, so you prejudged a game that you have not even touched yet and have already decided that to play it would be to settle? Again, I ask why exactly are you here? I don't have low expectations. I am interested in what the developers have presented in terms of the rules of this particular game. The ip does not really play into it because ip for the most part is meaningless. This is a large part of the reason why I do not really understand your railing against this. Ip is not the same thing as genre, and no game will ever meet what you have built up in your head for what you believe something should be. That is the very definition of unrealistic expectations. If you honestly think you can do better then you should be putting your money where your mouth is. Get some money together, make a demo and take it to Zenimax and try an sell it. Critiquing something before you have even seen it in action, much less touched it is ignorant at best.

Oh, and way to go to make such a simple thing as a design option in a video game into some dramatic life or death philosophical and social experiment into the human psyche!

Again, the sensationalism in an attempt to discredit. Atleast its not as bad as the outright insults. For someone attempting to tell others that they have low expectations, and that they are settling (I am not even convinced whether or not I will be purchasing the title) you sure are close minded.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17074

3/29/13 9:29:06 AM#130
Originally posted by Hjamnr
 

With any transition from one medium to another, there are always compromises which have to be made.  You see this in book->movie translations all the time.

Elder Scrolls fans need to realize that this cannot be Skyrim, but that you play with other people.  It just wouldn't work, akin to trying to put the entirety of "iRobot" onto the big screen... it'd be like 6 hours long, and be hard to follow.  There have to be changes, to fit the MMORPG format.  If you're going to put PvP in this game, (which you pretty much have to, these days, to have any potential longevity) the best model, with the most proven longevity and retention, is the model which was used by Mythic in thier first MMORPG. 

Thankfully, we have Matt, one of the founders of Mythic, running the show at ZMO, to properly guide this design.

I completely agree, you are preaching to the choir.

So DAoC fans are going to have to realize that this cannot be DAoC 2 as you play with other people, especially people who have been playing Elders Scrolls games for years. There are going to have to be changes to fit the Elder Scrolls world that these players have been enjoying for years.

So that point cuts both ways.

However, I don't agree that the DAoC is the "Best model". Lineage 2, though released about 2 years after DAoC had more players than DAoC over the years and is still going strong.

I mean, if you want to talk pvp models you are going to find people who can point to alternate pvp models that have die hard fan bases as well.

  Vendac

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 39

3/29/13 9:32:26 AM#131
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Vendac

Is it not time to make something different in an MMO?  The WoW formula has been done to death has it not?  People need something different to pull them away from what they are doing and then it needs to be good enough to get them to stay.

If ESO is not significantly different than what is out there, people will not play it, or they may play it for a short time and leave.  Look at games like Rift, GW2, etc as examples.  Rift is WoW 2.0 with alot less content.  People got bored of Rift and went back to WoW.  GW2 is a solid game at heart, but the end game is certainly not PvP and the PvE is meh at best.

Those that complain about PvP, yes this is a 3 realm game.  Yes, there are factions.  Do things like this build realm pride?  Damn right they do.  Should you be able to talk to the other realms, maybe.  Thats up to the devs.  Myself, I prefer the old school DAOC way where you killed someone, then went and taunted them on the VN Boards.  But that was a different time.  As far being able to play with the other factions in a huggy-feely love fest for PvE, I dont think they need to allow it.  All the classes are mirrored in this game, so other than to appease the the role playing crowd, there is no reason to allow the factions to mix with each other.

One thing that is almost guaranteed as that you will see some of the mechanics of DAOC come into this game as Matt Firor was one of the founders of Mythic and built what can still be considered one of the best PvP games ever in DAOC.  Taking some of these mechanics and incorporating them into ESO can only be a good thing.

Ok, but there's nothing about "Elder Scrolls" in your post. You are "about DAoC". This is the crux of the matter.

Now,I have no problem with 3 Faction pvp or ffa pvp or any type of pvp. But since the series was about exploration, making your character into what you want it to be, going where you want to go and doing what you want to do it's difficult to then be greeted with "Hey guys, they are finally making an elder scrolls game... AND THE WORLD IS GOING TO BE CUT UP AND PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE FORCED INTO FACTIONS YAY!!!!!!"

Sorry but it's a bit anachronistic for a series that was about choice.

And I don't see these arguments from the "three faction pvp crowd " (I can assume that it's a DAoC crowd but that might not be the case) arguing that this model will make for a better elder scrolls experience. It's all about it making the game a better DAoC 2.0

So sure, this is how they have made it, I completely understand, as others have said, that if you are going to make a 3 faction pvp game one might want to follow a format the was known to work. But again, it's not really beyond the pale that there are elder scrolls fans scratching their heads asking "why are we talking about this again?"

 

Yes, I admit I played DAOC for almost 10 years which is longer than most have even been playing MMOs.  Ive also played the the Elder Scrolls games, back as far as Daggerfall.  I understand the concept of exploration and customization.

We have no idea how cut up the world will be, or how big it will actually be.  If the world is big enough, it being cut into 3 pieces is not a big deal.  As none of us are actually in beta, and if anyone is they are under NDA, we have no idea how it really will work.  I hope you can actually visit a large portion of the world, around 80%, and its not sectioned off with a big sign that says you cant go there.  But these areas need to be PvP areas.  It should be risky, but there is your exploration for you.

The trinity will still be there, but you can do alot of different things with your character for that customization.  It remains to be seen how balance will be done as anytime you mix PvP into a game, there are always certain builds that work better than others.  At least ESO will use a class mirror system so everyone has access to the same stuff in that regard.

ESO needs to break out away from the current mold of MMOs (read: WOW) and try something with alot of new concepts.  They are headed in the right direction, but in the end it will be the little things that matter.

You cant fix stupid - Ron White

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2887

3/29/13 9:32:40 AM#132
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Hjamnr
 

With any transition from one medium to another, there are always compromises which have to be made.  You see this in book->movie translations all the time.

Elder Scrolls fans need to realize that this cannot be Skyrim, but that you play with other people.  It just wouldn't work, akin to trying to put the entirety of "iRobot" onto the big screen... it'd be like 6 hours long, and be hard to follow.  There have to be changes, to fit the MMORPG format.  If you're going to put PvP in this game, (which you pretty much have to, these days, to have any potential longevity) the best model, with the most proven longevity and retention, is the model which was used by Mythic in thier first MMORPG. 

Thankfully, we have Matt, one of the founders of Mythic, running the show at ZMO, to properly guide this design.

I completely agree, you are preaching to the choir.

So DAoC fans are going to have to realize that this cannot be DAoC 2 as you play with other people, especially people who have been playing Elders Scrolls games for years. There are going to have to be changes to fit the Elder Scrolls world that these players have been enjoying for years.

However, I don't agree that the DAoC is the "Best model". Lineage 2, though released about 2 years after DAoC had more players than DAoC over the years and is still going strong.

I mean, if you want to talk pvp models you are going to find people who can point to alternate pvp models that have die hard fan bases as well.

EVE-Online... and just have some random islands and seas and shit outside the main continent for people to fight over, basically free for all naval warfare with land invasions, colonization, etc. No faction locking or crap like that, people can form communities on their own and would have to to survive the, innevitable, bands of marauding players who take to the "rape and pillage" ethos.

  Telondariel

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/11/10
Posts: 874

3/29/13 9:35:02 AM#133
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Livnthedream

Ironic really because to me, you and the guy in the video are both random guys on the internet.

Can I make a wild guess that you are studying some sort of sociology course at the moment and because fresh in your studies you think these video's you post mean something more then someone expressing an opinion?

He holds a BA and a Phd, and is a professor at a prestigious school. He is far from "random".

 

Naw, looking into psychology is nothing but a hobby. Understanding why and what people do can be rather important in the line of work I am going into.

Psychology has been repeatedly proven to be at best a imprecise science, at worse a pseudo-science so excuse the people who have a little more than a "see this guy has a phd and knows shit!" argument. I've know people both younger and way older than you who've shown more than just a passing tendency to choose their own courses in life regardless of the currents society imposes on their generation and I've seen that the number of people who do this is a Hell of allot bigger than what it was when I was younger. Have fun posting youtube vids with jaded knowitalls though, pshychology has always been a running joke to anyone with an IQ north of 120.

Well, my bag of troll feed was almost empty so I figured I'd give you the powdery, mealy scraps at the bottom.

 

You have no idea what on earth you are talking about.  Please don't mix personal bias with inaccurate over-generalizations.

  dotdotdash

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/11
Posts: 347

3/29/13 9:36:49 AM#134


Originally posted by Livnthedream
Are a solid start. There are more than a few others that go into it further, but really it comes down to basic psychology, the human brain is wired and trained in certain ways by media and evolution.

Actually, if you'd bother to go and read actual research papers on the matter, you'd find that your application of such "basic psychology" is floored and doesn't apply.

Faction locking is only a PvP motivator where other PvP motivators fail. You can create and contrive robust competition between factions whilst still allowing them to communicate and interact actively by giving them something meaningful to fight over. That is how it works in Eve. The reason faction locking has become so prevalent in themepark games is because there is very little meaningful content that can be fought over.

Cyrodil is a proposed solution to this problem; we'll see if it works, but it's designed to create a meaningful and important goal for the PvP section of the game. If it isn't that rewarding, faction locking will be required to bolster the competition. If it is, faction locking won't be required.

Anyway, I suggest you actually do some reading before you spout nonsense at me again.

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/29/13 9:37:40 AM#135
Originally posted by Dihoru

Psychology has been repeatedly proven to be at best a imprecise science, at worse a pseudo-science so excuse the people who have a little more than a "see this guy has a phd and knows shit!" argument. I've know people both younger and way older than you who've shown more than just a passing tendency to choose their own courses in life regardless of the currents society imposes on their generation and I've seen that the number of people who do this is a Hell of allot bigger than what it was when I was younger. Have fun posting youtube vids with jaded knowitalls though, pshychology has always been a running joke to anyone with an IQ north of 120.

Of course its imprecise. Its evolving just like every other science. It gets tweaked every time data reveals something new. Its pretty undeniable that conditioning in its various forms works, I mean look at how many industries are fueled by the skinner box? The numbers themselves do not lie, though the interpretation of the data can be wrong. Generally speaking though, when you see the same experiments run with many different people in many different places and all of the data matches up, its kinda hard to call it into question. Again though, if you have an issue with his data, argue that. I would love to see the data that your opinion is based on that contradicts it. After all, there is a reason why more games are now made based on metrics instead of by gut feeling.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Vendac

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 39

3/29/13 9:38:41 AM#136
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Hjamnr
 

With any transition from one medium to another, there are always compromises which have to be made.  You see this in book->movie translations all the time.

Elder Scrolls fans need to realize that this cannot be Skyrim, but that you play with other people.  It just wouldn't work, akin to trying to put the entirety of "iRobot" onto the big screen... it'd be like 6 hours long, and be hard to follow.  There have to be changes, to fit the MMORPG format.  If you're going to put PvP in this game, (which you pretty much have to, these days, to have any potential longevity) the best model, with the most proven longevity and retention, is the model which was used by Mythic in thier first MMORPG. 

Thankfully, we have Matt, one of the founders of Mythic, running the show at ZMO, to properly guide this design.

I completely agree, you are preaching to the choir.

So DAoC fans are going to have to realize that this cannot be DAoC 2 as you play with other people, especially people who have been playing Elders Scrolls games for years. There are going to have to be changes to fit the Elder Scrolls world that these players have been enjoying for years.

However, I don't agree that the DAoC is the "Best model". Lineage 2, though released about 2 years after DAoC had more players than DAoC over the years and is still going strong.

I mean, if you want to talk pvp models you are going to find people who can point to alternate pvp models that have die hard fan bases as well.

EVE-Online... and just have some random islands and seas and shit outside the main continent for people to fight over, basically free for all naval warfare with land invasions, colonization, etc. No faction locking or crap like that, people can form communities on their own and would have to to survive the, innevitable, bands of marauding players who take to the "rape and pillage" ethos.

Why cant it be part of the main continent?  No one is forcing anyone to do PvP.  Dont want to PvP, stay out of the PvP areas.  If you add PvP zones that are not part of the story backdrop what purpose do they serve?  From what Ive seen is that there are 3 factions fighting against each other for 1 area.  Putting that elsewhere kind of defeats the purpose....

You cant fix stupid - Ron White

  Hjamnr

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/29/13
Posts: 174

3/29/13 9:40:33 AM#137
Originally posted by Dihoru

EVE-Online... and just have some random islands and seas and shit outside the main continent for people to fight over, basically free for all naval warfare with land invasions, colonization, etc. No faction locking or crap like that, people can form communities on their own and would have to to survive the, innevitable, bands of marauding players who take to the "rape and pillage" ethos.

Having "faction locked" PvE areas allows your game to cater to both the "pure" PvE Elder scrolls crowd, not forcing them into PvP if they don't want it, and also provides a gateway into meaningful RvR warfare, which they can dabble in at their leisure.

It's a balance that no games have really achieved since Dark Age.

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/29/13 9:43:24 AM#138
Originally posted by dotdotdas

Actually, if you'd bother to go and read actual research papers on the matter, you'd find that your application of such "basic psychology" is floored and doesn't apply.

I have. I do not see where it does not apply. Care to enlighten me?

Faction locking is only a PvP motivator where other PvP motivators fail. You can create and contrive robust competition between factions whilst still allowing them to communicate and interact actively by giving them something meaningful to fight over. That is how it works in Eve. The reason faction locking has become so prevalent in themepark games is because there is very little meaningful content that can be fought over.

Cyrodil is a proposed solution to this problem; we'll see if it works, but it's designed to create a meaningful and important goal for the PvP section of the game. If it isn't that rewarding, faction locking will be required to bolster the competition. If it is, faction locking won't be required.

Anyway, I suggest you actually do some reading before you spout nonsense at me again.

Really? Cause the last Eve Fest showed pretty clearly that the only real motivational factor driving things was the economy, Ie resources. Its a large part of the reason why there has been more and more movement out of 0.0 space and into wormhole space.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1118

3/29/13 9:48:05 AM#139
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Maelwydd

Well to me he is random. What he says makes sence in a clinical abstract way. And I guess to people who can't make up their mind he might be right. Not to me though, sorry.

Wait, so you already know the answer to every dicision you will ever make? Then why are you here again?

I do not know the answer to every descision I will ever make, not at all. But I have the capacity, when faced with a choice, to make an educated guess based on my own personal preferences and ability to make that choice. Isn't that the basic, findamental ability everyone has? Oh right, some PHD guys says we would all be better off will no choice because we really don't know what we want so must be spoon fed. Sorry, for the uneducated masses it probably sounds like really deep shit. To me it sounds like a lot of watery fluff just to seel his book...to people who can't make their own mind up so must be told, in a book, written by a really brainy PHD guy that they can't help being anable to be happy because they are just programmed that way. All due respect to the guy but that is bullshit.

And using a quote from your video, you might be happy with TESO having faction locks but I am not happy to simply say "You'll do". I know what I want, I don't have low expectations, I just have defined expectations. You can keep youre low expectations and play any dross that gets produced but I will not.

Wait, so you prejudged a game that you have not even touched yet and have already decided that to play it would be to settle? Again, I ask why exactly are you here? I don't have low expectations. I am interested in what the developers have presented in terms of the rules of this particular game. The ip does not really play into it because ip for the most part is meaningless. This is a large part of the reason why I do not really understand your railing against this. Ip is not the same thing as genre, and no game will ever meet what you have built up in your head for what you believe something should be. That is the very definition of unrealistic expectations. If you honestly think you can do better then you should be putting your money where your mouth is. Get some money together, make a demo and take it to Zenimax and try an sell it. Critiquing something before you have even seen it in action, much less touched it is ignorant at best.

Of course I can prejudge before I play it. Isn't that what marketing is all about? Give out info, get people to get excited about the pruduct before launch and hopefully raise sales...sometimes the maketing doesn't work or the product just isn't for everyone.

But here is the kicker, I am totally able to change my opinion when more information becomes available. I am totally able to fully understand what I expect and want even before anything is written about a product. If someone said to me "I am going to make an MMORPG based on a TES game" I know EXACTLY what my expectations are even before they releave any information. How can I do that? Because I am capable of critical thinking, ahving my own opinion and being able to assess what my requirements are based on my previous experiences.

And ignorant is when you say something like "DAOC PvP is the best and because one of the designers of DAOC is making TES then the PVP is TES will be great". It isn't stating that "these are my expectations and the game currently doesn't meet them but perhaps it might be acceptable when the game is finished". You see I am still willing to compromise, in fact have already done so to even look at the game, but you insist that the DAOC model is the only one to use. YOU are stuck without any choice here, not me.

Oh, and way to go to make such a simple thing as a design option in a video game into some dramatic life or death philosophical and social experiment into the human psyche!

Again, the sensationalism in an attempt to discredit. Atleast its not as bad as the outright insults. For someone attempting to tell others that they have low expectations, and that they are settling (I am not even convinced whether or not I will be purchasing the title) you sure are close minded.

Sorry, you started posting the Youtube links to try and make it seem like you had a clue. Guess what, you don't!

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1118

3/29/13 9:52:02 AM#140
Originally posted by Livnthedream
 

Really? Cause the last Eve Fest showed pretty clearly that the only real motivational factor driving things was the economy, Ie resources. Its a large part of the reason why there has been more and more movement out of 0.0 space and into wormhole space.

I guess "it happens because people like to PvP for the fun of it" is something that some PHD boffins would laugh at because as we all know, fun, just like love, is just too darn hard to work out what it is and how it works....right?

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