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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Dear ZOS, Please Don't Let Paul Sage Wreck This Game...

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147 posts found
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5509

3/29/13 12:17:09 AM#41
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Qallidexz
Originally posted by tkreep
Originally posted by Qallidexz
Originally posted by tkreep
How will that destroy PvP in cyrodil, you can still go there and fight other players of other factions.  Its like saying we cant talk to other people of other factions in real life likie we cant talk to people in the middle east or something lol.

 

This has been explained countless times, if you don't know wtf you're talking about, please refrain from posting... or find this information in another thread. Ty.

I do look at other threads and its pretty much like all the RvR fans want a limited closed game for the sake of their geeky little faction pride thing.

 

LOL. Faction Pride is what drives PvP... Sorry if we don't want to hold hands and pick flowers with the enemy like you little carebears...

Or we could just choose our own guilds/factions/alliances regardless of forced  "faction pride" and just ffa pvp it for those who want to pvp. So carebear that.

Good on him. Open it all up.

edit: though to be honest I see no reason not to let the world act like a giant Elder Scrolls game and then have the "armies" handle the faction pride part.

Not everyone will want to be part of a conflict. But if we are going to pvp then let's really pvp and choose our own groups thank you very much.

Sovrath you nailed it.  That is what made Lineage and Lin2 PvP so great.  Alliances were truly political and organic, created by players, and always evolving.  People that want to play PvP could flag themselves only to be on server layers that supported this.  It seems if there are reasonable DP consequences the community will police itself to a greater extent.

People who don't want to pvp shouldn't have to.  They can still contribute to the financial success of the game and have fun.  They don't need to be shut out and should be able to play the way they want.  With ESO's shard/layer technology those people could flag themselves only to be on pve only layers.

It just seems like the technology Zenimax is touting should be able to accomidate both player types.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8525

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

3/29/13 12:18:53 AM#42
I want some proof of this...  proof that Paul Sage said this, which is contradictarory to what the rest of the team says and proof that other people in the team confirm this before i take rumors like this serious..

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online and Wildstar

  Qallidexz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/12
Posts: 269

 
OP  3/29/13 12:19:47 AM#43
Originally posted by Kinchyle
Originally posted by Qallidexz

There was a TON of confusion recently, based on the recent article where Richie Procopio of Massively said: 

"Sage assuaged most of my fears, however, when he mentioned that once you hit level 50 and decide to play in another alliance's areas, you'll be able to play with friends in that faction. So at the endgame, things begin to open up and you can group up, chat, and run dungeons with players of other factions. The one area where things remain separate is, of course, the Alliance War in Cyrodiil."

However, at that same Media Event Maria Alipraondo gave a VERY different story, saying that people will NOT be allowed to talk with, or even see, people from other factions, but that the 50++ other-factions zones, would instead be instanced for Alliance, and Matt Firor seemed to indicate the exact same thing in his interview...

HOWEVER, today, the same guy, Richie Procopio, said in a video uploaded to youtube, that he caught up with Sage at PAX for some clarification on this, APPARENTLY, according to Sage, he's now  thinking of NOT ONLY allowing players at 50 to group with, and chat with, people of other realms, but ALSO, allow people to do this FROM LEVEL 1! I don't think I have to tell anyone here how that will utterly destory the faction-based PvP (do I?). Sounds like this is something Sage wants personally... 

 

HE WANTS all 3 factions to be meaningless in a purely PvE focused, hold-hands with the enemies and skip through the meadows picking flowers together type game... HE WANTS to destroy EVERYTHING Brian Wheeler and his team worked so hard on for years, in one fell swoop... PLEASE DO NOT MAKE PVP A COMPLETE JOKE, AND BACKSTAB ALL THE RvR FAN SUPPORT YOU'VE GOTTEN OVER THE PAST YEAR... PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW Paul "The Carebear" Sage TO RUIN THIS GAME. If people can group with, talk with, play with, people from other factions, then at the end of the day, Faction pride won't exist, and PvP will be 100% meaningless, like it is in GW2. Please don't turn on your entire PvP fanbase with one quick decision. You might as well HAND Camelot Unchained  your entire PvP-loving playerbase if you do this...

 

How did you get the satatus you have with a thread like this? Should be kicked to one star until you can curb your exaggerated ideas.

 

Hey man, I'm not afraid to speak the truth. sorry if you don't wanna hear it.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3701

3/29/13 1:28:23 AM#44

More rumors about rumors, eh?

If they think separating the factions caused a backlash, just wait for the shitstorm that will hit them if they back away from it.

It wouldn't even be about whether it's a better or worse design, it'd be about a group of developers acting like clueless clowns with no idea where they're going with this.

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

3/29/13 1:47:42 AM#45

So I dont get really get it if this is all true.

 

Does that mean you can walk into the other faction whenever you want and there is no more instanced off/invisible walls before level 50? Or maybe they just mean you can dungeon with them before 50 or something.

 

Does that mean you can randomly go meet your friend in the other faction and somehow be on the same questline as him?

 

I'd ask why there would even be factions then, but it's obvious that Cyrodill is a big selling point for their end-game. But really it feels like there shouldnt be factions anymore if that is their plan. I remember in WoW people would go on the forums to talk to the players of other factions. That'll be weird that you can fully talk with them.. And a big part of end game being alliance vs alliance vs alliance.

  Hefaistos

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/09/04
Posts: 135

3/29/13 1:52:14 AM#46
NOBODY cares about teaming with other factions...but if you still want to team up with other factions make those areas PVPFFA zones. 
  Panzerbase

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 431

3/29/13 2:00:09 AM#47
Looks like the ESO staff figured out the PVP crowd is not as important as they would like to think, good move, the revenue stream doesn't revolve around nerd raging teens. 
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3701

3/29/13 2:06:34 AM#48

Don't know if anyone bothered to link Richie Procopio's video in question so here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/user/bogotter

Notice that he's saying  things like: "I got the sense that..." "he alluded to..." and equally vague garbage. There are no hard facts here just more speculaltion from the same dude that wrote the original article that's contrary to what everyone else wrote.

I wouldn't worry about it.

  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1087

3/29/13 2:19:23 AM#49
He is either lying to get hits on his site or Paul Sage has a man crush on him and spills information he hasnt to anyone else. If its true, it will be sad for what the game could of been and I will reserve playing it for a month or two to see how fast people leave after burning through all the PvE content because the PvP will be an afterthought kind of like how GW2 approached it. Either way the game keeps falling further on my hype meter after hearing all this crapification that is going down.
  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5022

3/29/13 2:27:45 AM#50

So it seems that finally they realise that faction locking the races is going to cause problems, fine if they really want to capture the DAoC playerbase (all 250k of them)  but if they want to grab a significant portion of the Elder Scrolls players (millions..) then maybe they have to make the game enough like Elder Scrolls to entice them in, and if that means opening up the world rather than faction locking the areas, then thats what they will have to do,  Elder Scrolls players will often have a 'racial favourite' type which they play from game to game, if they want to do this in ESO and still be able to play with their friends who might also have a 'personal favourite' then the game is going to have to be able to support it.

 Its fine to leave cyrodil as the PVP area, i don't think anyone is really complaining about that, at least not much, but by allowing the PVE players to just play the game without some crazy restrictions will only make the game more popular. Some of them might even end up joining the PVP'ers in Cyrodil, how is that not a Win Win for both camps?

  Sentnl

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/13
Posts: 79

3/29/13 2:30:47 AM#51

Cryodiil doesn't sound anything like gw2's wvw zone, it sounds much larger... and by the look of the map, I would say if it fits the same ratio, its pretty damn big.

Also looks more like warhammer pvp zones, where all sides inevitably come to the same area to play the game, and contension happens - it was a great system! (war just messed it up)

I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  Betakodo

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/12
Posts: 338

3/29/13 2:32:24 AM#52
I may not be a master of lore for Elder scrolls games, but aren't the factions in ESO set up so the 3 most popular races are separated for population's sake?
  Anakami

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 101

3/29/13 2:38:21 AM#53

What I got from the video is that the devs are still tweaking the PvE experience until release, and that can very well mean that they are going to open up communication and PvE questing, maybe as early as lvl 1. And it would indeed be a very smart move, because right now they don't really play to the strength of the IP they have.

Assuming they want to target the huge Elder Scrolls fan base, and also assuming they did not lie when they said that they wanted this to be a very social experience, they really need to set up the PvE part differently than the PvP part.

Right now friends can't play together unless they happen to all like the same 3 races within one faction.

Guilds can only ever consist of 3 races.

You cannot talk to members of the other factions because suddenly there is a magical language barrier.

For some fun, social PvE play those restrictions are really in the way of enjoying Elder Scrolls with a bunch of friends or just for socializing with other people.

Luckily, they have separated their PvE and PvP already, so there won't change much. PvP is still only happening in Cyrodill and PvE will be everywhere else, just that now everyone can play without restrictions and experience a game that feels more like Elder Scrolls.

I am pretty sure the last word isn't spoken yet in regards to how they handle PvE, so there is hope that they will bring in some changes until release.

For me it will be the difference between giving this game a pass until the next SP game versus pre-ordering and staying subscribed for quite some time. Same goes for my friends who are all fans of Elder Scrolls. They have already given up hope but maybe we'll get lucky and Elder Scrolls Online becomes reality. We will see :)

  wordiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 481

3/29/13 2:39:16 AM#54

-Signed

I like the idea of being able to do it at 50, or possibly be given the choice to change factions later, but not at level 1. It would make no sense to the story. 

http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/

  Qallidexz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/12
Posts: 269

 
OP  3/29/13 2:42:07 AM#55
Originally posted by Sentnl

Cryodiil doesn't sound anything like gw2's wvw zone, it sounds much larger... and by the look of the map, I would say if it fits the same ratio, its pretty damn big.

It makes up 1/3rd of the game world, according to ZOS.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5022

3/29/13 2:44:43 AM#56
Originally posted by Anakami

What I got from the video is that the devs are still tweaking the PvE experience until release, and that can very well mean that they are going to open up communication and PvE questing, maybe as early as lvl 1. And it would indeed be a very smart move, because right now they don't really play to the strength of the IP they have.

Assuming they want to target the huge Elder Scrolls fan base, and also assuming they did not lie when they said that they wanted this to be a very social experience, they really need to set up the PvE part differently than the PvP part.

Right now friends can't play together unless they happen to all like the same 3 races within one faction.

Guilds can only ever consist of 3 races.

You cannot talk to members of the other factions because suddenly there is a magical language barrier.

For some fun, social PvE play those restrictions are really in the way of enjoying Elder Scrolls with a bunch of friends or just for socializing with other people.

Luckily, they have separated their PvE and PvP already, so there won't change much. PvP is still only happening in Cyrodill and PvE will be everywhere else, just that now everyone can play without restrictions and experience a game that feels more like Elder Scrolls.

I am pretty sure the last word isn't spoken yet in regards to how they handle PvE, so there is hope that they will bring in some changes until release.

For me it will be the difference between giving this game a pass until the next SP game versus pre-ordering and staying subscribed for quite some time. Same goes for my friends who are all fans of Elder Scrolls. They have already given up hope but maybe we'll get lucky and Elder Scrolls Online becomes reality. We will see :)

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2622

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

3/29/13 2:45:58 AM#57
Originally posted by Qallidexz

There was a TON of confusion recently, based on the recent article where Richie Procopio of Massively said: 

"Sage assuaged most of my fears, however, when he mentioned that once you hit level 50 and decide to play in another alliance's areas, you'll be able to play with friends in that faction. So at the endgame, things begin to open up and you can group up, chat, and run dungeons with players of other factions. The one area where things remain separate is, of course, the Alliance War in Cyrodiil."

However, at that same Media Event Maria Alipraondo gave a VERY different story, saying that people will NOT be allowed to talk with, or even see, people from other factions, but that the 50++ other-factions zones, would instead be instanced for Alliance, and Matt Firor seemed to indicate the exact same thing in his interview...

HOWEVER, today, the same guy, Richie Procopio, said in a video uploaded to youtube, that he caught up with Sage at PAX for some clarification on this, APPARENTLY, according to Sage, he's now  thinking of NOT ONLY allowing players at 50 to group with, and chat with, people of other realms, but ALSO, allow people to do this FROM LEVEL 1! I don't think I have to tell anyone here how that will utterly destory the faction-based PvP (do I?). Sounds like this is something Sage wants personally... 

 

HE WANTS all 3 factions to be meaningless in a purely PvE focused, hold-hands with the enemies and skip through the meadows picking flowers together type game... HE WANTS to destroy EVERYTHING Brian Wheeler and his team worked so hard on for years, in one fell swoop... PLEASE DO NOT MAKE PVP A COMPLETE JOKE, AND BACKSTAB ALL THE RvR FAN SUPPORT YOU'VE GOTTEN OVER THE PAST YEAR... PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW Paul "The Carebear" Sage TO RUIN THIS GAME. If people can group with, talk with, play with, people from other factions, then at the end of the day, Faction pride won't exist, and PvP will be 100% meaningless, like it is in GW2. Please don't turn on your entire PvP fanbase with one quick decision. You might as well HAND Camelot Unchained  your entire PvP-loving playerbase if you do this...

 

IMO ESO already tipped their hand to caving to whiners with the introduction of 1st Person View...which is horrendous for an MMO and no one in their right mind will use it, it will devolve to one of those systems that players only use to take screenshots once the novelty of the idea wears off and the realization it makes MMO play horrible.

 

They also caved to the faction lock, whereas 6 months ago I could see this as a spiritual successor to DAoC now it will be just a horrible RvR game like GW2 is.

 

Because of the ability for a vocal minority to change development in such a way there is a growing chorus to cater to the raid or die mentality crowd which as we all know if that happens everything else will take a backburner and raiding will be the only reliable gameplay to see any developmental updates.

 

As it stands now I will play the game but not with any great aspirations of it being the next DAoC due to some of these changes and I will msot likely treat Cryodill as a PvE zone with PvP gankings.  My hype for the game has taken a serious nosedive in the past 2 weeks.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3701

3/29/13 2:54:56 AM#58
Originally posted by Phry

So it seems that finally they realise that faction locking the races is going to cause problems, fine if they really want to capture the DAoC playerbase (all 250k of them)  but if they want to grab a significant portion of the Elder Scrolls players (millions..) then maybe they have to make the game enough like Elder Scrolls to entice them in, and if that means opening up the world rather than faction locking the areas, then thats what they will have to do,  Elder Scrolls players will often have a 'racial favourite' type which they play from game to game, if they want to do this in ESO and still be able to play with their friends who might also have a 'personal favourite' then the game is going to have to be able to support it.

 Its fine to leave cyrodil as the PVP area, i don't think anyone is really complaining about that, at least not much, but by allowing the PVE players to just play the game without some crazy restrictions will only make the game more popular. Some of them might even end up joining the PVP'ers in Cyrodil, how is that not a Win Win for both camps?

Umm yeah. Another fluffy lobby game. Maybe add a chopper or 2, some cute cartoon characters. You can never have too many of those.

It works for WOWites (all 10,000,000 of them ) so why not have another one? Yeah... WOW in a Tamriel skin, that's the ticket.

  Qallidexz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/12
Posts: 269

 
OP  3/29/13 2:56:40 AM#59
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Qallidexz

There was a TON of confusion recently, based on the recent article where Richie Procopio of Massively said: 

"Sage assuaged most of my fears, however, when he mentioned that once you hit level 50 and decide to play in another alliance's areas, you'll be able to play with friends in that faction. So at the endgame, things begin to open up and you can group up, chat, and run dungeons with players of other factions. The one area where things remain separate is, of course, the Alliance War in Cyrodiil."

However, at that same Media Event Maria Alipraondo gave a VERY different story, saying that people will NOT be allowed to talk with, or even see, people from other factions, but that the 50++ other-factions zones, would instead be instanced for Alliance, and Matt Firor seemed to indicate the exact same thing in his interview...

HOWEVER, today, the same guy, Richie Procopio, said in a video uploaded to youtube, that he caught up with Sage at PAX for some clarification on this, APPARENTLY, according to Sage, he's now  thinking of NOT ONLY allowing players at 50 to group with, and chat with, people of other realms, but ALSO, allow people to do this FROM LEVEL 1! I don't think I have to tell anyone here how that will utterly destory the faction-based PvP (do I?). Sounds like this is something Sage wants personally... 

 

HE WANTS all 3 factions to be meaningless in a purely PvE focused, hold-hands with the enemies and skip through the meadows picking flowers together type game... HE WANTS to destroy EVERYTHING Brian Wheeler and his team worked so hard on for years, in one fell swoop... PLEASE DO NOT MAKE PVP A COMPLETE JOKE, AND BACKSTAB ALL THE RvR FAN SUPPORT YOU'VE GOTTEN OVER THE PAST YEAR... PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW Paul "The Carebear" Sage TO RUIN THIS GAME. If people can group with, talk with, play with, people from other factions, then at the end of the day, Faction pride won't exist, and PvP will be 100% meaningless, like it is in GW2. Please don't turn on your entire PvP fanbase with one quick decision. You might as well HAND Camelot Unchained  your entire PvP-loving playerbase if you do this...

 

IMO ESO already tipped their hand to caving to whiners with the introduction of 1st Person View...which is horrendous for an MMO and no one in their right mind will use it, it will devolve to one of those systems that players only use to take screenshots once the novelty of the idea wears off and the realization it makes MMO play horrible.

 

They also caved to the faction lock, whereas 6 months ago I could see this as a spiritual successor to DAoC now it will be just a horrible RvR game like GW2 is.

 

Because of the ability for a vocal minority to change development in such a way there is a growing chorus to cater to the raid or die mentality crowd which as we all know if that happens everything else will take a backburner and raiding will be the only reliable gameplay to see any developmental updates.

 

As it stands now I will play the game but not with any great aspirations of it being the next DAoC due to some of these changes and I will msot likely treat Cryodill as a PvE zone with PvP gankings.  My hype for the game has taken a serious nosedive in the past 2 weeks.

+1000

  Anakami

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 101

3/29/13 3:09:06 AM#60

I don't really get all the "Doom and Gloom!" cries from the more extreme PvP camp. It's PvE changes that won't really affect your PvP experience.

Assuming you have no interest in PvE at all -at least that's the tone I get from most of the "hardcore" pvp people- you will probably jump into the PvP part of the game at the earliest convenience, which is from what I heard, very early, maybe even the moment you step outside the tutorial zone.

So, you will be in Cyrodill, a huge map where you can pvp all you want. You will never know the enemy you see, you won't be able to talk to them, you will have constant, endless war, just like you wanted it.

So...how exactly does anything regarding the PvE aspect of the game, which is forever outside of Cyrodill, bother you?

Seems illogical to me, tbh.

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