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Defiance

Defiance 

General Discussion  » Finally some innovation

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92 posts found
  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3732

RIP City of Heroes!

3/25/13 2:13:00 PM#61
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by waynejr2
So what is innovative is that it doesn't have tab targetting.  Oh wait, this isn't the first game without it therefore not innovative.  Since you failed to list anything else, your point is over.

It's the first AAA company to step away from tab-targetting in their MMO's from what i know of, which is like a ray of sunshine in a dull repeative genre, that has lazy developers repeating tab-target/instanced clones.

Hopefully if its successful, others will follow suit and were finally see the death of dull combat in MMO's.

Its a shooter, so it uses shooter mechanics.  this is hardly innovative, and has been around for at least a decade (not sure if Planetside was the first MMOFPS or not).  Oh, and Planetside was a AAA devloper...

 See when they get called out on it they start to qualify it.  Oh, it's the first AAA mmorpg... which basically admits it existed before.  If it existed before it's not innovative.

  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3732

RIP City of Heroes!

3/25/13 2:13:55 PM#62
Originally posted by fallenlords
Originally posted by waynejr2
So what is innovative is that it doesn't have tab targetting.  Oh wait, this isn't the first game without it therefore not innovative.  Since you failed to list anything else, your point is over.

Again the innovation is in scope not the game.  I haven't seen innovation in a game in years, if anything some of the decisions that are being made seem to be turning the clock backwards.  Defiance in itself is a pretty solid third person shooter with MMO elements.  Has a reasonable open world feel and the start of some interesting lore.  Which hopefully will be expanded by the TV series, DLC etc. 

 

To my mind evolution of the MMO has taken a tiny step forward, not massive by any means.  A baby step forward at a rather testing time.  The new generation of consoles are around the corner I imagine the success of this undertaking will have a significant impact on their roadmap for the future.  If this does well we can expect more projects like this in the future.   If this fails dramatically MMO's will probably stay PC based.

 In scope?  Cut the bs,  there is nothing new here. 

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6506

"I fight so you don't have to."

3/25/13 2:16:05 PM#63
Originally posted by fallenlords
At last the genre has taken a step forward - here we have an MMO releasing on all major gaming platforms and coinciding with a TV series release.   The scope of what is trying to be achieved here is massive compared to what has been done recently. 

 

I am playing the beta on Xbox and loving it, no major issues apart from a bit of lag during an Arkfall event.  All things considered it's a top game.  Of course PC players might feel short changed to the technology limitations of the current batch of consoles. And the game in itself  is a typical MMO - but really its kudos to Trion and Syfy for the convergence of the technologies and media.

 

Next step should be an MMO with cross platform integration - but I doubt that will ever happen.   Perhaps it's not a bad thing to keep console and PC players apart.

That is the reason why I am not so excited about this game. The TV series connection is a novelty but if the game plays poorly on the PC and is a typical run of the mill ThemePark MMO, I am not sure it matters as I wont be playing it anyway.

  fallenlords

Novice Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

 
OP  3/25/13 2:58:05 PM#64
Originally posted by strangiato2112

Some advice for people that want to talk up this game, or any game for that matter

1. Avoid hyperbole.  "FINALLY SOME INNOVATION"  What, like GW2 trying a game without the trinity, TSW having a modern setting and mystery/puzzle based quests, or even SoE using motion capture software so you can control your characters facial expression.  Just because it is innovation you dont like, doesnt mean there isnt innovation happeneing

The innovation within games is pretty weak, normally reworking's of stuff that has been done before in some shape or form - repackaged.  Innovation might be happening but nothing that defines a step forward as this does with the link between media formats.

2. Avoid nonsense points.  Oh, first game for ps3, xbox and PC!  big deal.  PS3/PC was done 2 years ago with DCUO.  Xbox/PC was done 10 years ago with FFXI.  by mentioning something like this it makes your argument seem weak that you even have to mention it

First game released at the same time for all three platforms. FFXI came out at different times on the various platforms - the Xbox version was considered a straight port with no optimisation for the platform.  I fail to see this is the same at all.  We are talking a 3 platform release and a TV show in one go.

3.  Discuss the actual gameplay/systems within the game beyond its genre.  We know its a shooter with MMO elements....some people may not know what those elements on them...expand on them.  Id be curious about important things like group mechanics, dungeons, crafting, social activities, etc.

A lot is unknown to the people just playing the beta, NDA has only just been lifted. Beta had issues, like sign-in problems on the Xbox.  If you were lucky enough to get in I don't think your priority was to write an essay on group mechanics, crafting etc. 

  fallenlords

Novice Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

 
OP  3/25/13 3:02:37 PM#65
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by fallenlords

Next step should be an MMO with cross platform integration - but I doubt that will ever happen.  

i did not read all the replies but this was already accomplished 10 years ago with FFXI Online

 

players from PC, PS2, XBOX could all play together on the same server

 

doubt sharing servers will happen again

- primarily because Microsoft and SONY no longer have interest in cross platform sharing the same servers

Released at different times - that wasn't really a convergence of technologies.  That was trying to cash in - especially with the  Xbox 360 copy.  Three years after initial release or something like that was the Xbox version.  The game by design was not meant for the three major platforms at the time of release.

  nezbel

Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/08
Posts: 47

3/25/13 3:17:40 PM#66
The game has taken some nice steps forward as far as enviroment, setting and in game story being presented to a the player... but game play I'm not seeing anything new in game play that adds any depth to combat, just running and gunning.
  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5218

3/25/13 3:30:50 PM#67
Innovation? if inoovation is a dubious console port for the PC version then its a style of innovation that DCUO already exploited, all in all there is no reason to get this game on the PC, the UI is still desperately in need of 'innovation'  what have seen of the gameplay so far has been iffy.. and by iffy i mean over simplified third person shooter, where any similarities to gears of war is probably intended..  and inevitable. There is no innovation in this game, not sure why innovation is being 'touted' as something that Defiance brings to the table, at best its a passable third person shooter, on console, at worst... there is always the stodgy PC Port..
  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

3/25/13 3:48:08 PM#68
Originally posted by fallenlords
Originally posted by strangiato2112

 

2. Avoid nonsense points.  Oh, first game for ps3, xbox and PC!  big deal.  PS3/PC was done 2 years ago with DCUO.  Xbox/PC was done 10 years ago with FFXI.  by mentioning something like this it makes your argument seem weak that you even have to mention it

First game released at the same time for all three platforms. FFXI came out at different times on the various platforms - the Xbox version was considered a straight port with no optimisation for the platform.  I fail to see this is the same at all.  We are talking a 3 platform release and a TV show in one go.

 

The point is, this is a 'who cares' thing.  Its trying to drum up hype over something that isnt really hypeworthy.  Now if we were talking about how well Defiance will sell, then yes, this sort of thing would be valid to discuss.  But when you make a thread proclaiming how innovative your game is and *this* is a key point, it makes your game seem not innovative at all.

  fallenlords

Novice Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

 
OP  3/25/13 4:24:28 PM#69
Originally posted by strangiato2112

The point is, this is a 'who cares' thing.  Its trying to drum up hype over something that isnt really hypeworthy.  Now if we were talking about how well Defiance will sell, then yes, this sort of thing would be valid to discuss.  But when you make a thread proclaiming how innovative your game is and *this* is a key point, it makes your game seem not innovative at all.

My game?  This is the first MMO to my recollection that has ever had a multi-platform (3 main gaming platforms) release at the same time with a TV tie-in.  The game is innovative just because of those factors, regardless of anything else.  The fact the game seems pretty solid as well is a plus.  The fact it's fun to play even better. 

 

A shooter MMO isn't every bodies cup of tea but bear in mind the platforms.   You want to appeal to Xbox and PS3 users then probably the lowest common denominator on this is that shooters lead the way.  Whether people like or it not the majority of games are shooter based.  The majority of console games are shooter based.  In order to float an MMO with any sort of appeal to console users it seems like the perfect platform.

 

Overall MMO's need to crossover to consoles.  PC gaming has been on the decline for ages, the only thing sort of propping it up is MMO's.  But all these MMO's are not going to be able to survive on the free to play ,buy to play models, unless they have some sort of crossover.  Next gen consoles are around the corner, more entertainment is being centralised to the living room and massive TV's. Look around Valve are looking to release a 'box', Nvidia have a handheld - the PC as a main source of gaming is dwindling.

 

So innovation wise this is step forward - because how this plays out I think will define how gaming looks in the next few years to come.  They bomb on this and the status quo will remain, but then what are you going to do as a developer?  Make games for boxes that you can sell at £50 a pop, or make games that involve you hosting servers and continual development for free to play and next to nothing.  The glimmer of hope for PC's from my perspective is competitive gaming - but the consoles have their eye on that and are already in that arena.  The only reason there isn't more is because of the hardware - que the next gen of consoles. Which by the sounds of it are going to internet all the time enabled, on demand gaming with larger multiplayer capabilities.

 

 
  Reserton

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/06
Posts: 71

3/26/13 6:38:56 PM#70
My favourite MMORPG Neocron had FPS/TPS combat and that was back in 2002, if you think Defiance is one of the first you obviously not been around long.
  Reserton

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/06
Posts: 71

3/26/13 6:41:13 PM#71
Originally posted by fallenlords
Originally posted by strangiato2112

The point is, this is a 'who cares' thing.  Its trying to drum up hype over something that isnt really hypeworthy.  Now if we were talking about how well Defiance will sell, then yes, this sort of thing would be valid to discuss.  But when you make a thread proclaiming how innovative your game is and *this* is a key point, it makes your game seem not innovative at all.

My game?  This is the first MMO to my recollection that has ever had a multi-platform (3 main gaming platforms) release at the same time with a TV tie-in.  The game is innovative just because of those factors, regardless of anything else.  The fact the game seems pretty solid as well is a plus.  The fact it's fun to play even better. 

 

 
 

Already you are wrong, Final Fantasy XI was released on PS2, PC and Xbox 360, and it was A LOT more of an MMORPG then Defiance ever will be.

 

And if you really think this "TV Tie in" is innovative you must be mad, it is just advertising in disguise and you are being suckered. Nothing special about it, just one big awful gimmick.

  fallenlords

Novice Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

 
OP  3/27/13 4:30:25 AM#72
Originally posted by Reserto
 

Already you are wrong, Final Fantasy XI was released on PS2, PC and Xbox 360, and it was A LOT more of an MMORPG then Defiance ever will be.

 

And if you really think this "TV Tie in" is innovative you must be mad, it is just advertising in disguise and you are being suckered. Nothing special about it, just one big awful gimmick.

As I have already mentioned about 3 times now, FFXI was released on multiple platforms but not at the same time.  Xbox version was about 3 years after initial release or something like that.  Straight port, no achievements or optimisation. 

 

Yes linking a game release to a TV show release is innovative.  I can't remember it being done before and the cross over from seeing the pilot of the TV series, first 14 minutes, actually seems pretty strong.  I am having great fun in the beta, I like shooters anyway, and  I like to explore. So far nothing has been off limits within the scope of the maps.  It's pretty open world, exploration wise, and the format of the game means there is quite a sense of cooperation between the ark hunters.  Took down a big hell bug on a quest yesterday but would never have managed it solo, somebody just came along at the right time and helped me out. 

 

Overall I think the scope of what they are trying to achieve is massive and I hope it does well, both the game and the TV series.

  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

3/27/13 4:40:46 AM#73
Originally posted by fallenlords
 
 
Next step should be an MMO with cross platform integration - but I doubt that will ever happen.   Perhaps it's not a bad thing to keep console and PC players apart.

 Sorry but that is absolute BS.

Who the hell cares on what machine you run a game client, console or PC, it´s nothing but a different casing and OS.

X-Box is a PC, and the PS4 will have PC architecture too, so the only difference is the type of controller people use to play the games.

You know that it is only Microsofts and Sonys fault that they don´t allow cross connection to external gaming networks, for security reasons. They only want to run their own little secluded server architectures, that is why WindowsPC-Xbox-PS-Mac cross gaming will never work. 

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  Volgore

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Joined: 6/15/08
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3/27/13 4:56:20 AM#74
Originally posted by FromHell
Originally posted by fallenlords
 
 
Next step should be an MMO with cross platform integration - but I doubt that will ever happen.   Perhaps it's not a bad thing to keep console and PC players apart.

 Sorry but that is absolute BS.

Who the hell cares on what machine you run a game client, console or PC, it´s nothing but a different casing and OS.

X-Box is a PC, and the PS4 will have PC architecture too, so the only difference is the type of controller people use to play the games.

You know that it is only Microsofts and Sonys fault that they don´t allow cross connection to external gaming networks, for security reasons. They only want to run their own little secluded server architectures, that is why WindowsPC-Xbox-PS-Mac cross gaming will never work. 

I think they should have let all platforms play together and just seperate them for PvP, which each having their own instance there.

  fallenlords

Novice Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

 
OP  3/27/13 5:29:26 AM#75
Originally posted by FromHell
Originally posted by fallenlords
 
 
Next step should be an MMO with cross platform integration - but I doubt that will ever happen.   Perhaps it's not a bad thing to keep console and PC players apart.

 Sorry but that is absolute BS.

Who the hell cares on what machine you run a game client, console or PC, it´s nothing but a different casing and OS.

X-Box is a PC, and the PS4 will have PC architecture too, so the only difference is the type of controller people use to play the games.

You know that it is only Microsofts and Sonys fault that they don´t allow cross connection to external gaming networks, for security reasons. They only want to run their own little secluded server architectures, that is why WindowsPC-Xbox-PS-Mac cross gaming will never work. 

Well the different control mechanics especially with something like a shooter, don't lend themselves to cross platform integration.  You would have PC players owning anybody with a console just due to the accuracy of the keyboard/mouse as a control mechanism.   You would need some serious aim assist on the consoles with a controller to level the playing field.

 

Somebody has already mentioned cross platform has been done already with FFXI - PC, PS2, Xbox 360. Not being a fan of that series I have no idea how successful it was overall or how well it ran.

 

Like I say, keeping console and PC gamers separate isn't a bad thing I don't think - different mentality for one thing.  For example I always feel I have a more level playing field in multiplayer on a console than I ever did on a PC.  Too many glitchers, macro users etc on the PC. Half the time especially with shooters it didn't ever come down to the skill of the player, just who was cheating the best.   Not that every PC player cheats, just I found it a lot more common on the PC .

 

 

  oubers

Novice Member

Joined: 11/14/11
Posts: 879

3/27/13 5:35:33 AM#76
Originally posted by SysFail
Trion have to be applaued for creating an MMO with FPS combat. If it's successful, then the flood gates might just open with other major dev houses creating games that aren't the usual tab target yawn fest.

i think Blizzards new "MMO" (aka titan) will be something like this that will blow people away (at least the hype will blow people away :p ) hehe.

 

  GGrimm

Novice Member

Joined: 3/12/13
Posts: 50

3/27/13 8:19:44 PM#77
Originally posted by fallenlords
At last the genre has taken a step forward - here we have an MMO releasing on all major gaming platforms and coinciding with a TV series release.   The scope of what is trying to be achieved here is massive compared to what has been done recently.

Yeah. This was a really balzy move on the part of SyFy. I've got to hand it to them for trying to connect gaming and television programming. The IDEA that one could play an MMO and somehow impact a TV show that it is written around is very compelling. I look forward to seeing how SyFy implements this concept.

  toddze

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 2196

I am not a hater, I call it like I see it.

3/27/13 8:31:16 PM#78
Originally posted by fallenlords
At last the genre has taken a step forward - here we have an MMO releasing on all major gaming platforms and coinciding with a TV series release.   The scope of what is trying to be achieved here is massive compared to what has been done recently. 

 

I am playing the beta on Xbox and loving it, no major issues apart from a bit of lag during an Arkfall event.  All things considered it's a top game.  Of course PC players might feel short changed to the technology limitations of the current batch of consoles. And the game in itself  is a typical MMO - but really its kudos to Trion and Syfy for the convergence of the technologies and media.

 

Next step should be an MMO with cross platform integration - but I doubt that will ever happen.   Perhaps it's not a bad thing to keep console and PC players apart.

I will buy this game on ps3,  65 inch TV vs 24 inch moniter...... no comparision

 

by the way FFXI is a cross platform MMO ps2, 360, PC, it happened long time age, but we all know now how the mmorpg genre has de-evolved since 2002.

Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI

  toddze

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 2196

I am not a hater, I call it like I see it.

3/27/13 8:42:07 PM#79
Originally posted by fallenlords
Originally posted by FromHell
Originally posted by fallenlords
 
 
Next step should be an MMO with cross platform integration - but I doubt that will ever happen.   Perhaps it's not a bad thing to keep console and PC players apart.

 Sorry but that is absolute BS.

Who the hell cares on what machine you run a game client, console or PC, it´s nothing but a different casing and OS.

X-Box is a PC, and the PS4 will have PC architecture too, so the only difference is the type of controller people use to play the games.

You know that it is only Microsofts and Sonys fault that they don´t allow cross connection to external gaming networks, for security reasons. They only want to run their own little secluded server architectures, that is why WindowsPC-Xbox-PS-Mac cross gaming will never work. 

Well the different control mechanics especially with something like a shooter, don't lend themselves to cross platform integration.  You would have PC players owning anybody with a console just due to the accuracy of the keyboard/mouse as a control mechanism.   You would need some serious aim assist on the consoles with a controller to level the playing field.

 

Somebody has already mentioned cross platform has been done already with FFXI - PC, PS2, Xbox 360. Not being a fan of that series I have no idea how successful it was overall or how well it ran.

 

Like I say, keeping console and PC gamers separate isn't a bad thing I don't think - different mentality for one thing.  For example I always feel I have a more level playing field in multiplayer on a console than I ever did on a PC.  Too many glitchers, macro users etc on the PC. Half the time especially with shooters it didn't ever come down to the skill of the player, just who was cheating the best.   Not that every PC player cheats, just I found it a lot more common on the PC .

 

 

 

FFXI is one of the top 5 grossing MMO's of all time. it held 500K subs for half a decade. The cross platform did hinder its aging process, but in todays mmo market 5 years is an eternity. Heck XI just announced a new expansion, its still kicking today. Game is over 10 years old.

 

A lot of grumbling over the UI, you cant make a game cross platform and give one platform an advantage over others, so the PC UI was limited because it had to work on console controllers. This should be less of a problem with next gen consols if devs want to make console mmo's where you can use keyboard and mouse with it, but i doubt that will happen, as if its on console expect controller friendly UI which will limit PC UI.

Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI

  fallenlords

Novice Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

 
OP  3/28/13 5:32:40 AM#80
Originally posted by GGrimm

Yeah. This was a really balzy move on the part of SyFy. I've got to hand it to them for trying to connect gaming and television programming. The IDEA that one could play an MMO and somehow impact a TV show that it is written around is very compelling. I look forward to seeing how SyFy implements this concept.

They have even mentioned player game characters appearing as part of the show as extras.  That could be interesting, see a representation of your toon bombing around on screen.

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