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Elder Scrolls Online

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General Discussion  » There are no raids... can you live with that?

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549 posts found
  Dogblaster

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 505

3/27/13 10:05:59 AM#341
Originally posted by nerovipus32

The game will have 16 dungeons at release.

awesome :) now lets hope they will be challenging, fun and actually worth doing !

 

+ BIG Hope they wont be beatable in one or two days all of them. Numbers means nothing if they are doable in half an hour each :D

But why to speculate here right, game wont be relesed till 4Q/2013 and untill then there will be ARR/AA/WildStar etc. games to go play if it fails :) so lets just see

  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

3/27/13 10:11:07 AM#342
Originally posted by morbidlymystic
Originally posted by nerovipus32

Well of course it was about pve, it was a single player game. Theres no point developing raid content when all the raiders will just go back to wow after a month or two anyway.  WOW does raiding better than anyone else and trying to compete with them on that level will only make the game fail. Elder Scrolls didn't have any raiding either btw :)

 

Seriously?!?  Skyrim didn't have single player raids... How enlightening!

 

Way to miss the point, and use a bad joke dude.  The point is the game is going to flop without some sort of REAL endgame, aka raiding. 

 

Here is an interesting story.  Back in 2004 everyone said EQ2 would dominate WoW.   The exact opposite occured. 

 

With well executed raid feature TESO could tople WoW, or at least compete and maintain a subscription base.  Otherwise, its doomed to be just another F2P pile of crap that can at best keep you entertained for a couple months.

TESO won't topple wow and to even think it will is foolish. Raiding is the only real end game in your opinion, not everyone wants a game focused around that. Any game that has raiding never developes content in other areas, it's raid or die. TESO is about rvr hence why the races are split into 3 factions. Trying to be a jack of all trades will end up making the game master in none.

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

3/27/13 10:11:30 AM#343
Originally posted by Dogblaster
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Dogblaster
Originally posted by Genadi

Hopefully the game won't attract those players. It's the 'Feedz me more content' scrubs that have ruined nearly every mmo I've enjoyed over the past 15 years. I haven't much hope for the game now anyways but if there are no raids it's a step in the right direction to creating something like a TES game which IMO must have a sandbox feel.

In case you didnt notice... themepark mmorpgs are about 'Feedz me more content'. Doesnt matter if they have raids or dont ... :) So if themepark mmo dont impelement raids there must be something else that replace it, because crafting, or doing quests, story, exploring wont make players play the game for years .. :)

The focus of this game is RVR, whereas in games like wow  the focus is on raiding.

Oh okey. So goodbye majority of pve players after few months? :) Nothing against it, just sounds weird when es was always about pve and now es mmo focus is RVR.. :) I thought PvE would be also very rich, I was wrong then ..

You said it yourself... Crafting, doing quests, story and exploring doesn't keep players playing for years. What does? Repeatable content with increasing rewards, i.e. PvP, or progression PvE (also house management, but I think only a small percentage would find that worthy of years of their time).

PvE progression doesn't have to be pigeon holed into just raiding. Small group dungeons, the 50+ and 50++ zones, and the adventure zones will all have that progression. Not only that, but it has been said that there are raid style encounters within the adventure zones for large groups to battle and be rewarded from. The idea is that you can go in with a small group and complete much of the content, but if you can get the manpower you can trigger those bigger bosses to spawn and get better rewards.

  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

3/27/13 10:15:22 AM#344
Originally posted by morbidlymystic
Originally posted by nerovipus32

TESO won't topple wow and to even think it will is foolish. Raiding is the only real end game in your opinion, not everyone wants a game focused around that. Any game that has raiding never developes content in other areas, it's raid or die. TESO is about rvr hence why the races are split into 3 factions. Trying to be a jack of all trades will end up making the game master in none.


10 million subs for years says you are wrong....

Says i'm wrong about what?

  ragz45

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 482

3/27/13 10:21:12 AM#345

Love people that spout these stastistics about only 5% of mmo players actually raiding like they are truth.  I would like to see the scientific study behind these numbers.  The only time I've ever seen bliz post numbers about raiding, was when they said only 2% of the pop saw AQ40 & Sunwell.  That had nothing to do with what % of population actually raided.  But how difficult the raids were to gear up to and complete.

There isn't any scientific proof of what % of mmo population actually enjoys raiding.

  Dogblaster

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 505

3/27/13 10:24:52 AM#346
Originally posted by rygard49

You said it yourself... Crafting, doing quests, story and exploring doesn't keep players playing for years. What does? Repeatable content with increasing rewards, i.e. PvP, or progression PvE (also house management, but I think only a small percentage would find that worthy of years of their time).

PvE progression doesn't have to be pigeon holed into just raiding. Small group dungeons, the 50+ and 50++ zones, and the adventure zones will all have that progression. Not only that, but it has been said that there are raid style encounters within the adventure zones for large groups to battle and be rewarded from. The idea is that you can go in with a small group and complete much of the content, but if you can get the manpower you can trigger those bigger bosses to spawn and get better rewards.

I said previously that if you dont have raids you have to have other featuers, etc. :) you showed me there are other features planed and thats enought :) I never said raiding is the only endgame pve stuff just to be clear !

 

Now I hope it will be fun maaan... :) and released today ^^

  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

3/27/13 10:29:53 AM#347
Originally posted by morbidlymystic
Originally posted by nerovipus32

Says i'm wrong about what?

Originally posted by nerovipus32

TESO won't topple wow and to even think it will is foolish. Raiding is the only real end game in your opinion, not everyone wants a game focused around that. Any game that has raiding never developes content in other areas, it's raid or die. TESO is about rvr hence why the races are split into 3 factions. Trying to be a jack of all trades will end up making the game master in none.

Millions of paying subs for nearly a decade says you are wrong....

Blizzard has grossed well over 12 billion dollars from WoW subs alone.   Thats not even including box sales or item store sales.

 

There is no reason it couldn't topple WoW, IF they do it right.  It would be a huge feat, but its certainly doable.   WoW is obviously not going to be on top forever!  However, just being 2nd and actually maintaining P2P for years would be sufficient. 

 

Unless Adventure zone is akin to Raiding then TESO is going to rise and crash, and it won't be a real MMO and it won't be worth spending years of time on.

Yes and how many devs have copied the wow formula and failed? So because TESO doesn't meet your expectations it's going to fail? The game will have no raids at launch. It's an RVR focused game,  either accept that fact or find a game that has the features you like.

  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

3/27/13 10:38:51 AM#348
Originally posted by morbidlymystic
Originally posted by nerovipus32

Yes and how many devs have copied the wow formula and failed? So because TESO doesn't meet your expectations it's going to fail? The game will have no raids at launch. It's an RVR focused game,  either accept that fact or find a game that has the features you like.

 

Thats just it, they made a poor imitation of WoW and failed.  Why would you want to pay them $15 a month for a cheap knockoff?  TESO isn't a cheap knockoff, and that is why it has a chance to be something more than a cheap F2P pile of shit like all the other mmos out right now.

 

Yes, if it doesn't meet the end game expectations of the playerbase it will fail.  In this case when I say fail it won't be a truly great MMO for years and years to come.  It might make money, but thats the game companies idea of success, not the players. 

But it does have end game, It's called RVR.

  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

3/27/13 10:44:08 AM#349
Originally posted by morbidlymystic
Pretty much every MMO has PvP, yet they are all F2P.

Pretty much every mmo has raids too.

  immodium

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1318

3/27/13 10:44:47 AM#350
Originally posted by morbidlymystic
Pretty much every MMO has PvP, yet they are all F2P.

Which I find strange. People are willing to pay a monthly fee for generic, predictible PvE content?

  Panzerbase

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 431

3/27/13 10:46:58 AM#351
So basically this is PS2 set in a limited TESO world? No thanks, you can bang the drums all you like but PVP is a sideshow in the MMO industry, propped up by the PVE base.  People think a bit too highly of themselves, sorry but expecting special consideration for said sideshow is asinine. The PVP crowd tends to be your non paying FTP hype machine, and this is what kills a game faster than anything else. I see another minor game on the horizon that will peak and sputter just like all the rest, never knowing all they had to do was go the extra mile and try harder. 
  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

3/27/13 10:50:14 AM#352
Originally posted by Panzerbase
So basically this is PS2 set in a limited TESO world? No thanks, you can bang the drums all you like but PVP is a sideshow in the MMO industry, propped up by the PVE base. I think people think a bit too highly of themselves, you're not so important that they need to cater the game  to you, the PVP based crowd at the expense of everyone else. I see another minor game on the horizon that will peak and sputter just like all the rest, never knowing all they had to do was go the extra mile and try harder. 

No, the game has pve content it just doesn't have raids. I'm not saying they are catering the game to pvp crowd, i'm saying the devs are creating an RVR game with pve content, i didn't make the game i'm only going on what the devs have said.

  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

3/27/13 10:53:09 AM#353
Originally posted by morbidlymystic
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by morbidlymystic
Pretty much every MMO has PvP, yet they are all F2P.

Pretty much every mmo has raids too.


Except they pale in comparison to WoWs.  There is always some major flaws in the game.

 

WoW wouldn't be anywhere enar where it is now without Raiding.  There is just no way to make questing, farming, and PvP compelling for the majority of the MMO playerbase for years.  Its just not possible. 

Likes i said wow does raiding better than anyone else, theres no point trying to compete with them when it comes to raiding. You can try but you'll fail like all the others in the past.

  pantaro

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/16/07
Posts: 61

3/27/13 10:57:18 AM#354
Originally posted by kabitoshin
This game to me seems like its main focus will be the PvP.

and thats why I love elder scrolls but this game is very VERY low on my radar!

  immodium

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1318

3/27/13 11:09:08 AM#355
Originally posted by morbidlymystic
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by morbidlymystic
Pretty much every MMO has PvP, yet they are all F2P.

Pretty much every mmo has raids too.


Except they pale in comparison to WoWs.  There is always some major flaws in the game.

 

WoW wouldn't be anywhere enar where it is now without Raiding.  There is just no way to make questing, farming, and PvP compelling for the majority of the MMO playerbase for years.  Its just not possible. 

 

If WoW has taught us anything its that progression oriented PvE is the backbone of an MMO.

 

Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by morbidlymystic
Pretty much every MMO has PvP, yet they are all F2P.

Which I find strange. People are willing to pay a monthly fee for generic, predictible PvE content?

 

Except its not, they continusly add new content.  Everyone progresses through the content at their own speed, and its not the same.  Some encounters even vary, thus ensuring they are different from week to week.

 

PvP oriented players are a niche community.  They certainly can't maintain a healthy playerbase in an MMO.

Only niche within MMORPG's. PvP is the driving force behind other genres: FPS, RTS's. Why not MMORPG's?

I think it's becuase they can get very good, challenging PvP for nothing. Maybe it's the player progression aspect that turns away PvP'ers?

  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

3/27/13 11:20:33 AM#356
Originally posted by morbidlymystic
Originally posted by immodium

Only niche within MMORPG's. PvP is the driving force behind other genres: FPS, RTS's. Why not MMORPG's?

I think it's becuase they can get very good, challenging PvP for nothing. Maybe it's the player progression aspect that turns away PvP'ers?

I have actually wondered that myself, and I came to about the same conclusion.  I don't think they are attracted to this genre for a couple reasons.  First, you have to level your character, and you can't really just jump straight into PvP.  You load up call of duty or some other game and your in the action instantly.  Second, you have to gear your character, sometimes specifically for PvP.  Again this takes considerable amounts of time, and isn't always pretty.  The playing field is often quite unbalanced due to this as well.

The reason why wow is so successful has nothing to do with raiding, the reason why WOW is so successful is 1. blizzard have an amazing marketing department... and 2. it's a blizzard game. look at diablo 3 it sold 12 million copies and it's nothing special.

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1936

3/27/13 11:21:30 AM#357
Originally posted by danwest58

Alls I see is people who dont like raiding poiting out all the negatives of raiding.  The truth is If you dont like raiding tough dont raid.  Too many people equate Raiding with 40 man groups, hard boss encounters that take months to master and people yelling at them.  Those days of raiding are long going.  Take SWTOR raiding for example, the Story Mode and Hard modes in an 8 man setting is easy, relaxing, can be very fun and dramaless if you find the right group.  Yes SWTOR sucked for Hardcore players because they can finish all the content in a week.  Tough shit it was never built to be that game.  All you people that want to sit there and hate on raiders saying they are elites are just doing the same that Elites do when telling you to go earn your gear by raiding.  Why dont you all who hate raiding just deal with a game that does not have it and move on.  Just like the hardcore players moved on from SWTOR because it was not hardcore enough. 

Too much hate and negativty does nothing to better your life.  Find one of the three dozen MMOs that fit you and play it and stop getting all up and arms about what developers do.  Have your opinion, post it, dont fight others who have their own ideas and wants.  Its pointless.

There is nothing pointless about defending a design decision by the developers that creates a game that fits your play style.  If you want to point fingers and call someone pointless, then point them at the raid fanatics who immediately react with disbelief and anger that a MMO has the audacity to not cater to them.

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2592

3/27/13 11:25:11 AM#358
Originally posted by morbidlymystic
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by morbidlymystic
Pretty much every MMO has PvP, yet they are all F2P.

Pretty much every mmo has raids too.


Except they pale in comparison to WoWs.  There is always some major flaws in the game.

 

WoW wouldn't be anywhere enar where it is now without Raiding.  There is just no way to make questing, farming, and PvP compelling for the majority of the MMO playerbase for years.  Its just not possible. 

 

If WoW has taught us anything its that progression oriented PvE is the backbone of an MMO.

Hahaha what? The MINORITY of WoW players do the raids. It's the casual PvE players that keep the game floating. WoW has always been a casual MMO. Even its raiding is some of the most casual raiding in the market. WoW raids, compared to games like EQ and DAoC, are really REALLY weak.

 

 

 

 

 

Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by morbidlymystic
Pretty much every MMO has PvP, yet they are all F2P.

Which I find strange. People are willing to pay a monthly fee for generic, predictible PvE content?

 

Except its not, they continusly add new content.  Everyone progresses through the content at their own speed, and its not the same.  Some encounters even vary, thus ensuring they are different from week to week.

 

PvP oriented players are a niche community.  They certainly can't maintain a healthy playerbase in an MMO.

Really? Is that why the MMO with the longest upward growth of any MMo on the market, as well as second highest sub rate in the west, is primarily a PvP sandbox game? (Eve)

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2592

3/27/13 11:26:11 AM#359
Originally posted by Panzerbase
So basically this is PS2 set in a limited TESO world? No thanks, you can bang the drums all you like but PVP is a sideshow in the MMO industry, propped up by the PVE base.  People think a bit too highly of themselves, sorry but expecting special consideration for said sideshow is asinine. The PVP crowd tends to be your non paying FTP hype machine, and this is what kills a game faster than anything else. I see another minor game on the horizon that will peak and sputter just like all the rest, never knowing all they had to do was go the extra mile and try harder. 

Eve wants to have a word with you.

Meanwhile, take a look at all the PvE centric MMOs at the bottom of the bin, TSW, AoC, SWTOR, TR, LotRO, DDO, limping along with nothing.

  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

3/27/13 11:27:19 AM#360
Originally posted by morbidlymystic
Originally posted by Vorthanion

There is nothing pointless about defending a design decision by the developers that creates a game that fits your play style.  If you want to point fingers and call someone pointless, then point them at the raid fanatics who immediately react with disbelief and anger that a MMO has the audacity to not cater to them.

Adventure zones dude.  They have clearly said numerous times that they are making the game with hardcore players in mind as well.

The fact that you refer to yourself as a hardcore player just makes me cringe....

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