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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Feedback Sought: The new access tiers

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78 posts found
  MarkJacobs

CEO City State Entertainment

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 405

 
OP  3/26/13 9:10:08 PM#41
Originally posted by Sensai
Originally posted by MarkJacobs

Originally posted by Sensai

This too may be a stupid question but it still bears asking:  Will the IT tier grant access to all testing phases (alpha and all betas)?

Yes but please only choose it because you want to really help us out.

Mark

Mark,

That is why I asked the question.  It would be difficult to be involved in the IT stage and then not see how the testing proceeded throughout the remaining stages, or if inclusion in the later stages of testing was random.  I can only speak for myself, but if I am part of the IT stage (which I hope to be), I want to see it through to the end of the final beta and not just be involved in bits and pieces as the game evolves.

 

 

Understood. If you want to talk about this before you pledge, send me an email here and we can take it offline. I don't want anybody to feel like they ended up wasting their money on a tier. That's one reason I added the FPs. :)

Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment

  Shadowhellz

Novice Member

Joined: 9/01/06
Posts: 17

3/26/13 9:11:49 PM#42

Now will IT have time specific restraints? (This should be put on the table before you offer it to help us figure out if we can do IT or just stick with alpha).

 

The last game I beta'd (And I can't say due to the NDA and such) we had two typs of testing.

 

One was kind of a "On the spot" testing where they gave us short notice to test a specific thing or area out. They didn't really mind if we could or could not make it (They knew we had day jobs) but help was great.

And another was "Test this over the next couple days, then give us as feedback at/by x date and time. Which was required to stay in the beta.

 

Just for Timezone constants. If you do testing during a specific time and people live in a timezone where it's 4-5 am during the testing, it'd make more sense to get alpha over IT :).

 

Just curious! Regardless I can't wait to fund the game.

 

Thanks!

 

Edited to clarify.

  Maric

Novice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 64

http://paganrites.wordpress.com/

3/26/13 10:14:18 PM#43

Mark,

For the IT phase tier, or where you define on Kickstarter what the requirements will be for IT phase, please if possible state whether or not IT testing would be viable for West Coasters.  For example, due to time zone differences, would it be very rare that a West Coaster who works a 9-5 job be possible to assist at this stage of testing?

Thank you.  Good work communicating on various sites.  Looking forward to Kickstarter going live!

EDIT:  Nevermind my concerns.  I see you addressed this on another post!

 

  Whisper135

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/13
Posts: 2

3/26/13 10:26:10 PM#44

Hi Mark,

 

I posted earlier today about this on massively, (you can see my comment here - http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/25/massively-exclusive-camelot-unchained-unveils-pledge-tiers-see/) and I just wanted to say thank you very much for this update!

 

This cleared up a lot of confusion for me, and i'm sure you will get a lot of backers for the IT phase who will care about your game as much as you do! I will hopefully be one of them. I really think you went in the right direction with these new pledge pricings and rewards. Can't wait to see the finalized version on Kickstarter!

  Whisper135

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/13
Posts: 2

3/26/13 10:33:45 PM#45
Originally posted by MarkJacobs

Originally posted by Sensai

This too may be a stupid question but it still bears asking:  Will the IT tier grant access to all testing phases (alpha and all betas)?

Yes but please only choose it because you want to really help us out.

Originally posted by observer
Ok, i understand that a huge project such as an MMO needs testers, but it just leaves me concerned when you allow people to pay for internal testing.  They will never be qualified as a professional tester, and thus, the product will suffer because of it.  Their main interest will be getting a first-look at the product, and their concerns will not be focused on quality assurance, and why should it?  They can't get "fired" for doing a bad job.

I agree but with a few caveats:

1) I've seen some phenomenal testing/reports from players. Nobody knows the genre better than some of these guys and man, some of them are just the world's best ferrets. 

2) I've seen some really crappy testing from players. 

3) I've seen some phenomenal testing from paid testers.

4) I've seen some crappy testing from paid testers.

In my perfect world, we have both.

Mark

I just wanted to adress this as well. As a quality assurance tester in the videogame industry, Mark hit the nail on the head here. You don't have to be "paid" to be good at what you do. I've seen new employees walk into the company and blow QA who have been around for years right out of the water. Quality testing really comes down to the players attention to detail, imagination, and their love for the project to be honest.

  dynamicipftw

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/26/12
Posts: 216

3/27/13 12:03:47 AM#46

The main reason people will buy the $25 tier is just to enter the beta. Putting them in the last beta (13 months after the alpha and 7 after the first beta) will make that tier very unattractive IMO. 

 

Watching everyone else play the beta when you have paid for it sounds VERY frustrating. 

 

There should be no segregation. 1 alpha/beta for all.

 

Even if there are 20k backers they will be from different timezones and they will never be online at the same time. They can fit on 1-2 servers easily. 

 

  Sornin

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/07
Posts: 1138

Too weird to live, and too rare to die

3/27/13 12:10:14 AM#47
Originally posted by dynamicipftw

The main reason people will buy the $25 tier is just to enter the beta. Putting them in the last beta (13 months after the alpha and 7 after the first beta) will make that tier very unattractive IMO. 

 

Watching everyone else play the beta when you have paid for it sounds VERY frustrating. 

 

There should be no segregation. 1 alpha/beta for all.

The trouble is that in early testing, they do not want or need as many testers. Therefore, they need to slowly increase the pool. How do you propose to do that with "1 alpha/beta for all?"

  dynamicipftw

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/26/12
Posts: 216

3/27/13 12:14:13 AM#48
Originally posted by Sornin
Originally posted by dynamicipftw

The main reason people will buy the $25 tier is just to enter the beta. Putting them in the last beta (13 months after the alpha and 7 after the first beta) will make that tier very unattractive IMO. 

 

Watching everyone else play the beta when you have paid for it sounds VERY frustrating. 

 

There should be no segregation. 1 alpha/beta for all.

The trouble is that in early testing, they do not want or need as many testers. Therefore, they need to slowly increase the pool. How do you propose to do that with "1 alpha/beta for all?"

Why don't they want more testers? More testers = better beta = better game. They already paid for it after all.

  RealLifeGobbo

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 218

3/27/13 12:18:41 AM#49

To add a little bit of light on the topic:

The Alpha stage is not nearly as refined as the Beta stage.  Typically, the during the Beta stage, most of the games mechanics have been worked out, while the rest of the content (artwork, sounds, item graphics, etc) is added, so it's fully playable.  Alpha is the rough bones of the game.  It is not nearly as rough as the "Internal Testing", but a good chunk of the game is missing. 

Aspiring Game Musician <<>> Inquiring ears, feel free to visit: http://www.youtube.com/user/vagarylabs

  sweetdigs

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/11/03
Posts: 199

3/27/13 12:19:42 AM#50
Originally posted by dynamicipftw
Originally posted by Sornin
Originally posted by dynamicipftw

The main reason people will buy the $25 tier is just to enter the beta. Putting them in the last beta (13 months after the alpha and 7 after the first beta) will make that tier very unattractive IMO. 

 

Watching everyone else play the beta when you have paid for it sounds VERY frustrating. 

 

There should be no segregation. 1 alpha/beta for all.

The trouble is that in early testing, they do not want or need as many testers. Therefore, they need to slowly increase the pool. How do you propose to do that with "1 alpha/beta for all?"

Why don't they want more testers? More testers = better beta = better game. They already paid for it after all.

1.  Fewer players = less demand on the server = lower testing costs.

2.  Fewer players = more focused, streamlined feedback.  They can sort through posts by 1000 folks much easier than 10,000.  Information overload doesn't make the game better.  It just makes for a muddled message.

At each stage of beta, there will be more players involved.  There will be far more folks involved when the game reaches Beta 2 and is doing class balancing discussions than when they are doing basic crash and burn testing on basic game mechanics (where, frankly, you don't need 1000 people telling you that sprint isn't working).

  sweetdigs

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/11/03
Posts: 199

3/27/13 12:21:45 AM#51
Originally posted by Shadowhellz

Now will IT have time specific restraints? (This should be put on the table before you offer it to help us figure out if we can do IT or just stick with alpha).

 

The last game I beta'd (And I can't say due to the NDA and such) we had two typs of testing.

 

One was kind of a "On the spot" testing where they gave us short notice to test a specific thing or area out. They didn't really mind if we could or could not make it (They knew we had day jobs) but help was great.

And another was "Test this over the next couple days, then give us as feedback at/by x date and time. Which was required to stay in the beta.

I don't want to speak for Mark, but I'm pretty sure he stated that IT will have specific testing windows.  It is not going to be available 24/7.  In fact, IT is not a full fledged game.  It's just testing out various mechanics and trying to break stuff.  You might be thinking more of alpha or beta, and even alpha and beta won't be available 24/7, but will have limited testing windows.

  Plastic-Metal

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 423

3/27/13 12:25:03 AM#52
Originally posted by dynamicipftw
Originally posted by Sornin
Originally posted by dynamicipftw

The main reason people will buy the $25 tier is just to enter the beta. Putting them in the last beta (13 months after the alpha and 7 after the first beta) will make that tier very unattractive IMO. 

 

Watching everyone else play the beta when you have paid for it sounds VERY frustrating. 

 

There should be no segregation. 1 alpha/beta for all.

The trouble is that in early testing, they do not want or need as many testers. Therefore, they need to slowly increase the pool. How do you propose to do that with "1 alpha/beta for all?"

Why don't they want more testers? More testers = better beta = better game. They already paid for it after all.

More testers does not equal better beta, it equals more headache with hundreds or even thousands of the same bug report filed that has to be processed.  Then, inevitably, you have people that will throw a tantrum because their posts weren't acknowledged during a test cycle on the forum.  Now, stress testing hardware and large scale combat otherwise not possible with a smaller focused testing group is far more viable via a larger testing pool.

Trust me..  less testers early on is far better than thousands of random people not understanding their purpose, tormenting the developers on the backer forum, and complaining they can't connect or their voices aren't heard.  A lot of people are use to the 'modern day' mmo testing cycles and aren't familiar with actual development life cycles.

My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

  Shadowhellz

Novice Member

Joined: 9/01/06
Posts: 17

3/27/13 2:10:55 AM#53
Originally posted by sweetdigs
Originally posted by Shadowhellz

Now will IT have time specific restraints? (This should be put on the table before you offer it to help us figure out if we can do IT or just stick with alpha).

 

The last game I beta'd (And I can't say due to the NDA and such) we had two typs of testing.

 

One was kind of a "On the spot" testing where they gave us short notice to test a specific thing or area out. They didn't really mind if we could or could not make it (They knew we had day jobs) but help was great.

And another was "Test this over the next couple days, then give us as feedback at/by x date and time. Which was required to stay in the beta.

I don't want to speak for Mark, but I'm pretty sure he stated that IT will have specific testing windows.  It is not going to be available 24/7.  In fact, IT is not a full fledged game.  It's just testing out various mechanics and trying to break stuff.  You might be thinking more of alpha or beta, and even alpha and beta won't be available 24/7, but will have limited testing windows.

That's not my issue at all.

I'm just hoping they clarify on times for the IT/alphas. 

It wouldn't make sense to buy the IT over alpha if all the testing times are during the hours I work :)

  Foggye

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 92

3/27/13 3:00:24 AM#54
Originally posted by Shadowhellz
Originally posted by sweetdigs
Originally posted by Shadowhellz

Now will IT have time specific restraints? (This should be put on the table before you offer it to help us figure out if we can do IT or just stick with alpha).

 

The last game I beta'd (And I can't say due to the NDA and such) we had two typs of testing.

 

One was kind of a "On the spot" testing where they gave us short notice to test a specific thing or area out. They didn't really mind if we could or could not make it (They knew we had day jobs) but help was great.

And another was "Test this over the next couple days, then give us as feedback at/by x date and time. Which was required to stay in the beta.

I don't want to speak for Mark, but I'm pretty sure he stated that IT will have specific testing windows.  It is not going to be available 24/7.  In fact, IT is not a full fledged game.  It's just testing out various mechanics and trying to break stuff.  You might be thinking more of alpha or beta, and even alpha and beta won't be available 24/7, but will have limited testing windows.

That's not my issue at all.

I'm just hoping they clarify on times for the IT/alphas. 

It wouldn't make sense to buy the IT over alpha if all the testing times are during the hours I work :)

Yeah, that was my concern as well.  I'd love to IT/Alpha a game.  Creatively breaking things is fun, challenging, rewarding and sometimes rememberable ("Ahhh, see that hill over there, it should be a pink teddy bear named George.."  Though, I work swing.. on the west coast.  I know that CSE is an east coast company, so knowing the broad range of what sort time frames they'd anticipate would not only be better for my own decision, but the ultimately the game's and someone else.  I'd love to be at ground zero, but if the timing doesn't work, then it's better for everyone to not get it and let someone else whom does have the time available to do so in my stead.

  sweetdigs

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/11/03
Posts: 199

3/27/13 3:25:24 AM#55
Originally posted by Shadowhellz
Originally posted by sweetdigs
Originally posted by Shadowhellz

Now will IT have time specific restraints? (This should be put on the table before you offer it to help us figure out if we can do IT or just stick with alpha).

 

The last game I beta'd (And I can't say due to the NDA and such) we had two typs of testing.

 

One was kind of a "On the spot" testing where they gave us short notice to test a specific thing or area out. They didn't really mind if we could or could not make it (They knew we had day jobs) but help was great.

And another was "Test this over the next couple days, then give us as feedback at/by x date and time. Which was required to stay in the beta.

I don't want to speak for Mark, but I'm pretty sure he stated that IT will have specific testing windows.  It is not going to be available 24/7.  In fact, IT is not a full fledged game.  It's just testing out various mechanics and trying to break stuff.  You might be thinking more of alpha or beta, and even alpha and beta won't be available 24/7, but will have limited testing windows.

That's not my issue at all.

I'm just hoping they clarify on times for the IT/alphas. 

It wouldn't make sense to buy the IT over alpha if all the testing times are during the hours I work :)

Pretty sure Mark addressed that somewhere in this thread.  Believe he mentioned that they would find a way to get testers from around the world involved in the project.  I'm not going to bother looking for it, but I suspect if you look through this thread you'll find it.

  Vymm

Novice Member

Joined: 10/27/07
Posts: 113

"Spray paint the world" - Rerak. Quote regarding the waste of time of AOE DPS without kills.

3/27/13 7:13:20 AM#56

I am sure given all the options at this point in time, MOST of us will be able to see where we fit into the grand scheme of it all.  We ALL cant be on the ground level of testing and I am sure some of us have no interest in ground level bug reports etc.  I know I have mixed feelings about IT access as it can be quite frustrating and time consuming.  On the other hand, there is something to be said about watching a game 'grow up' before your eyes and helping nuture the beast it will become.

 

Vymm

  beibhinn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 22

3/27/13 7:42:03 AM#57
Originally posted by BowbowDAoC

Sounds good, very well explained, so there is hardly any room for confusion / misunderstanding.

 

Thanks, Mark :)

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  Zintair

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/21/08
Posts: 63

3/27/13 8:24:59 AM#58
Originally posted by beibhinn
Originally posted by BowbowDAoC

Sounds good, very well explained, so there is hardly any room for confusion / misunderstanding.

 

Thanks, Mark :)

I feel like this is that time someone told me MJ had a Witch Hunter on my old Phoenix Throne server lol.

  Drakonal

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 43

3/27/13 8:26:20 AM#59

Might be a stupid question, but while this thread clearly fixes all confusion on the testing tiers of kickstarter, will there be a final draft pre KS launch that shows what all comes with what clearly?

 

 

 

For example I know I want to if possible be involved with IT testing through Beta 3, but I also want Lifetime sub ($1 dollar a year thing), and perhaps a physical map signed by Mark as well.

 

 

I am just curious if i'll have a good idea of what i'm aiming for pre KS launch to avoid clicking the wrong option(s) on said KS luanch day to try and make the IT phase cut assuming it fills fast.

 

 

 

-Drak

Drakonal of Lancelot/Kay
Drakulaz of Mordred
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  Mortify

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/13
Posts: 96

3/27/13 10:29:08 AM#60

I'm pretty pleased with the adjusted tiers MJ, they explain a lot, and i know what tier i'm going to choose :)

 

1 question i have, i probably misunderstood something, but:

---

3 year subscription renewable for $1 per year (Kickstarter has asked us not to have a lifetime subscription but a shorter one that renews for a small amount and well, $1 is pretty small)

---

Does that mean after the 3 years you pay a regular sub, or have a 3 year sub, after which you pay $1 for extending it each time with 1 year?

 

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