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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » Neverwinter first beta impressions

13 posts found
  dzoni87

Novice Member

Joined: 10/23/08
Posts: 553

 
OP  3/25/13 10:44:09 AM#1

Before i start to write anything about game itself, i will mention couple of things. I am playing a Pen and Paper RPGs for more than 10 years and ive been playing various RPG rule systems (ADD 2.0, DnD 3e, 3.5, 4e, Pathfinder, Runequest, World of Darkness, Shadowrun, GURPS etc. just to name a few...)

And of course, i know that this proves no point, but i am actually one of the minority, that in fact is ok with DnD 4e. While it obviously have its flaws, i think that its combat is done ok and is ballanced well (no more "time stop" and other OP crap, yaaaaay). And, while i would host an "Hack and Slash" 4e session any day, other aspects of the rule system are a bit weaker, but i will not discuss them now, for this isnt topic about it. Long story short: DnD 4e isnt perfect but is fine system and can be fun to play with right and fun people.

Well, NW is obviously made around 4e ruleset, which can you see straight from the start and from the skill descriptions and skillbar setup (and i wll go into those details later on). Now this game have huge potential because of its licence, but it is still in beta so i did have a bit low expectations out of it, though they didnt surprised me even a bit (kind of expected, lol). Now i will go straight to the point, one by one.

 

CHARACTER CREATION 8/10 - I was actually overjoyed, when i saw that it have body and face sliders. Yes, faces are somewhat based around the presets, but you can customize it even further with complexion, tattoos/makeup, scars, etc. Same for bodies, each of races have a handfull of preset bodies, but you can come up with various shapes with sliders. Now, i came for a score of 8 just because those sliders are a bit way to hard-coded, so you cant actually go to such extremes (well, that can also be a good thing sometimes), but a bit more variations wouldnt be such a bad thing.

 

GRAPHICS/VISUALS 8/10 - I dont know what other have to say about it, but i actually liked a character and exterior design. It even reminded me on EQ/EQ II - not even a bit serious, but have its dose of charm and is a nice to eye. Now, this may not be the DnD that many are imagining while roleplaying (including maybe me), but is good enough, not to make you uninstall or puke, out of lousy visuals. Though an animation part (not the combat animation) still need a lot of work, in my opinion.

 

COMBAT 7/10 - The combat is actually a mix between a GW2 and Tera with a little bit DDO flavor added to it. And, while this may or may not be a bad thing, it fits DnD 4e system fine. Now the thing is, combat can become old very quick for some players and for those who dont prefer way to much action combat. Still, standing in place for caster classes can be very frustrating, especially with some mechanics that require proper positioning.

 

HANDHOLDING 5/10 - Obviously, this part became a standard when MMORPG genre came to the mainstream and this game surely suffers from it. The game litterally draws you your quest objectives and everything seems like a corridor, plus they are continously spoon-feeding you with items and levels. This whole feel leaves a bitter-sweet taste in your mouth and, unless you are player with an age of 8, you will begin to feel like you have some mentall illnes and they are treating you like that. In my opinion, this and next characteristic draw me out of game too much.

 

WORLD 2/10 - What happens with MMORPGs?!? Why all the newer titles feels like an straight linear corridors with quest chains that you need to complete to continue further. This was the very thing that made me to burn out of SWTOR very very very quick and is obviously present in this game as well. Why i cant roam freely trough whole Neverwinter and the rest of Fâerun (well, supposed part of it anyway)? Why am i locked within one zone just because i havent done all the main quests? No, this is a big minus from me. Let me go straight out to the forest, get my butt served to me back on a plate and try to return there for couple of levels. Pardon me, but this is why i liked the games such as EQ, GW2 or early WoW (this is stil present to some extent even in WoW)... they had you to go out and explore wherever you please. Yes, do zones, i am ok with it, it doesnt have to be a seamless world. But at least dont lock me out.

 

CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION 5/10 - Well, this is a themepark MMORPG afterall, so expect a gear-chasing to be major part of your power customization. The thing that bugs me is that, for the sake of DnD, they could put some more of stats/feats/i dont know customizing. Hell, even DDO had it. On the other hand, chosing dailies or encounter powers is pretty much 4ed thing, which maaaay be a fine thing, but you actually start to realise that the WotC went with 4e ruleset, only to adapt it so that the MMORPG developers can make a DnD licenced games and still stay "true to rules" without issues. But the proper MMORPG need a hell lot of more, other than a popular license to be a good MMORPG. History teached us that.

 

MUSIC 2/10 - It may be a nice music (still a matter of taste) but it gets old veeery fast. For the sake of your own sanity, mute the music, by all means. I may reccomend "Rhapsody of Fire" for awesome Epic Fantasy/Metal experience instead of in-game music ;)

 

FINAL SCORE 6.5/10 - This may be a nice game that may introduce Dungeons and Dragons universe to younger audience (eventhough i would recommend Baldurs Gate or Neverwinter Nights from 2000 as the most true DnD games any day) or may be a nice side game to play from time to time, but if the game stays in state like this, it will be quickly forgotten, especially with other titles that are around the corner. At this state, it is nothing more than slightly improved DDO, and i even doubt that it will attract a lot of active DDO players (i do hope that i would be proven wrong).

 

Keep in mind that this was still Beta and miracles can happen (though with a slim chances). I tried to be as objective as i can, but i need to see opinions from others. Sure maybe you guys out there find a weaker features, in my opinion, to be as actuall strong or good ones. I would really welcome opinions (not the bashing) of others. Have a nice day and see you around,

Dzoni87

P.S.: i had a little time to test PvP, Foundry, Cash Shop and other aspects of the game, but i will do so in upcoming betas/release so i will make my judgement on those later on.

Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online

  birdycephon

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/09
Posts: 1327

Not Safe For Woona (NSFW)

3/25/13 11:00:03 AM#2
Youre probably right, a lot of the problems you mentioned are the kind that are pretty much set in stone.
  GGrimm

Novice Member

Joined: 3/12/13
Posts: 50

3/25/13 7:31:24 PM#3
As a pen-and-paper enthusiast, I'm not sure why you'd want to offer a "final score" without having looked at the Foundry. IMO, Foundry is what makes this game special/unique. That's a little like going to Dunkin Donuts and saying - Atmosphere 7, Coffee 4, Cleanliness 4. FINAL SCORE 5. Didn't get a chance to try the donuts.
  HorrorScope

Novice Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 612

3/26/13 8:54:24 AM#4
Originally posted by dzoni87

HANDHOLDING 5/10 - Obviously, this part became a standard when MMORPG genre came to the mainstream and this game surely suffers from it. The game litterally draws you your quest objectives and everything seems like a corridor, plus they are continously spoon-feeding you with items and levels. This whole feel leaves a bitter-sweet taste in your mouth and, unless you are player with an age of 8, you will begin to feel like you have some mentall illnes and they are treating you like that. In my opinion, this and next characteristic draw me out of game too much.


FINAL SCORE 6.5/10 - This may be a nice game that may introduce Dungeons and Dragons universe to younger audience (eventhough i would recommend Baldurs Gate or Neverwinter Nights from 2000 as the most true DnD games any day) or may be a nice side game to play from time to time, but if the game stays in state like this, it will be quickly forgotten, especially with other titles that are around the corner. At this state, it is nothing more than slightly improved DDO, and i even doubt that it will attract a lot of active DDO players (i do hope that i would be proven wrong).

Handholding... the golden trail takes it to a new level. If you rely on that, when the time comes that it isn't there for you, no next content to point you to. You then realize how dumb the game just made you. You stand there like "where to I go now?" as if you never had the feeling of adventure before. But the game molds you one way and then leaves you standing there alone and it feels like work having to look for something, like the golden trail is some type of drug and you just ran out of it. The golden trail was a mistake, the game was plenty linear/cooridor without it.

"It's nothing more than a slightly improved ddo", it's not even in the same mmo genre. If the goal is DnD, DDO wipes the floor with NW. It also has an action combat mode, perhaps the original action combat model, it can do it without any rooting either. The dungeons are unique and memorable. You can name easily 40 dungeon/quests in DDO and people remember them vividly. I haven't played another mmo where the qty of those dungeons/quests are memorable. Character building in DDO is second to none, stat building not looks.

They balance the game up, fix the bugs and they have what could be a fun, fairly mindless rpg.

  dzoni87

Novice Member

Joined: 10/23/08
Posts: 553

 
OP  3/26/13 9:42:32 AM#5
Originally posted by GGrimm
As a pen-and-paper enthusiast, I'm not sure why you'd want to offer a "final score" without having looked at the Foundry. IMO, Foundry is what makes this game special/unique. That's a little like going to Dunkin Donuts and saying - Atmosphere 7, Coffee 4, Cleanliness 4. FINAL SCORE 5. Didn't get a chance to try the donuts.

Well, i did already mentioned that i had not tried foundry, but i will do so next time. I always loved modding tools and making/trying out mods or maps or anything. I also think that something like a foundry is a good idea for an MMO and so far ive been hearing mostly the positive things about it. However... however, unless modding tools can change the very mechanics of gameplay ("Skyrim Unleashed" or "SkyRE" mods for Skyrim comes to mind) little can mods do to improve whole gaming experience, except to add a little bit of content here and there (which is can be a good thing to some extent). But i wont say anything more about it untill i try it. Maybe they do surprise me pleasantly :)

As for final score, i sumed up the whole experience and my impressions for those first 2 days of my gameplay. It is final in that way, but by no means "finally" final (if you get what im saying hehe). When im gonna make a "Final impressions" topic that will be the thing :D (the score may differ from curent one, of course).

Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online

  dzoni87

Novice Member

Joined: 10/23/08
Posts: 553

 
OP  3/26/13 9:55:43 AM#6
Originally posted by HorrorScope

"It's nothing more than a slightly improved ddo", it's not even in the same mmo genre. If the goal is DnD, DDO wipes the floor with NW. It also has an action combat mode, perhaps the original action combat model, it can do it without any rooting either. The dungeons are unique and memorable. You can name easily 40 dungeon/quests in DDO and people remember them vividly. I haven't played another mmo where the qty of those dungeons/quests are memorable. Character building in DDO is second to none, stat building not looks.

They balance the game up, fix the bugs and they have what could be a fun, fairly mindless rpg.

Well, maybe you are right afterall. When i said "slightly" i maybe meant on visual things or "some" combat improvements (if one can call them improvements afterall - its more easier to click/aim/target and now you can make some combos yaaaay /sarcasm) and of course, foundry, which may or may not be a good thing.

Out of that, game felt pretty much like DDO to me, except for the fact that DDO have more detailed build customization and more "memorable dungeons" (Voice of DM FTW :D). However, i do have reason why i didnt stayed long in DDO as well, but that is story for another time :)

Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online

  Alber_gamer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/08/12
Posts: 474

3/26/13 10:00:17 AM#7

Press Z to remove the sparkling trail.

 

If you make the game dumb for you, don't blame the game for handholding you. Blame yourself for needing to use an optional dumb feature. Perhaps you like dumbed down games but you are too proud to admit it, afterall?

My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

3/26/13 10:03:23 AM#8
@alber I distinctly remember that being on by default. Which defeats the purpose if you have to know it's a setting.


  Alber_gamer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/08/12
Posts: 474

3/26/13 10:08:52 AM#9
Originally posted by Kuppa
@alber I distinctly remember that being on by default. Which defeats the purpose if you have to know it's a setting.

 

By default there is also a big announcement in the middle of your screen saying "PRESS Z TO REMOVE THE QUEST TRAIL". This pops up the first time you see the quest trail appear, at level 1 just as you gain control of your character for first time. It's called "TUTORIAL", and its purpose is to teach people the most basic functioning of the game.

 

It's up to you how much of the game you want to play at tutorial level.

My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.

  GGrimm

Novice Member

Joined: 3/12/13
Posts: 50

3/26/13 12:32:57 PM#10
Originally posted by dzoni87
Originally posted by GGrimm
As a pen-and-paper enthusiast, I'm not sure why you'd want to offer a "final score" without having looked at the Foundry. IMO, Foundry is what makes this game special/unique. That's a little like going to Dunkin Donuts and saying - Atmosphere 7, Coffee 4, Cleanliness 4. FINAL SCORE 5. Didn't get a chance to try the donuts.

Well, i did already mentioned that i had not tried foundry, but i will do so next time. I always loved modding tools and making/trying out mods or maps or anything. I also think that something like a foundry is a good idea for an MMO and so far ive been hearing mostly the positive things about it. However... however, unless modding tools can change the very mechanics of gameplay ("Skyrim Unleashed" or "SkyRE" mods for Skyrim comes to mind) little can mods do to improve whole gaming experience, except to add a little bit of content here and there (which is can be a good thing to some extent). But i wont say anything more about it untill i try it. Maybe they do surprise me pleasantly :)

As for final score, i sumed up the whole experience and my impressions for those first 2 days of my gameplay. It is final in that way, but by no means "finally" final (if you get what im saying hehe). When im gonna make a "Final impressions" topic that will be the thing :D (the score may differ from curent one, of course).

As a former DM I will say that being able to make content in any game IS gameplay. If the Foundry weren't there I moght be more inclined to write this game off as nothing spectacular or otherwise hugely innovative, but still fun while the novelty is there and content is fresh. However, give a DM effective tools to make their own adventures in a shared MMO world. That's a big bonus, and one that you rarely find in MMO games.

  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

3/27/13 6:07:47 AM#11

With foundry you can easily make content which outshines the foundry content.

 

If you do not believe me, check out "Shards of Selûne" in next beta weekend 4.

However, the quest has tough combat, so bring a lot of health potions before you attempt it. Also you will need to be lvl 8+ for this campaign.

  HorrorScope

Novice Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 612

3/27/13 9:52:10 AM#12
Originally posted by Alber_gamer

Press Z to remove the sparkling trail.

 

If you make the game dumb for you, don't blame the game for handholding you. Blame yourself for needing to use an optional dumb feature. Perhaps you like dumbed down games but you are too proud to admit it, afterall?

When/if you PUG, you have no choice. Someone will have it on and bee-line the instance.

Like PUG and Need/Greed.

Like PUG and one treasure to a chest and the first player to it wins.

All the same sutff, the fix is:

No Trail in the game (Next to no other game does it so there goes your "we like dumbed down games", no one asked or assumed this.

Change Need/Greed (several suggestions at the official forum) or remove it.

Make sure everyone on the team gets something when a chest is found.

All 3 PUG issues, all 3 have possible fxes.

 

 

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8630

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

3/27/13 10:15:33 AM#13
Originally posted by gillrmn

With foundry you can easily make content which outshines the foundry content.

 

If you do not believe me, check out "Shards of Selûne" in next beta weekend 4.

However, the quest has tough combat, so bring a lot of health potions before you attempt it. Also you will need to be lvl 8+ for this campaign.

I hope there is a lot of story and lore to be told in those campaigns...

 

Sadly i think most campaigns will end up as just a single dungeon crawl and if the actuall combat is just above average, it will not be the reason to keep people occupied with the game.

 

So far the only thing that kept people playing MMO´s is the drive and possibillity to keep improving your character and its gear... bigger and better, is what keeps the majorrity of people playing long time (the other substantial part keeps playing for the good community, but only if the game and combat is fun) 

Sadly that my biggest worry is that thee will be no more character improvement when you reach max level, and that it wont be that hard to aquire the best gear.. And the modding community will never get better then the best gear, so the drive for playing all those top level dungeons will not be there for the majorrity of players.

Next to that, people are not looking forward to play other peoples adventures, but to get praised by other people playing their adventures.

 

I have said it before, since this game has a hard set top level of gear, it needs endless character improvement at max level to keep people playing.

 

 

The idea of the foundry is awesome, but that alone will not make the world of Neverwinter turn round and round.

 

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)