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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » More Interesting Species/Races in MMOs

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48 posts found
  triton54x

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 39

3/24/13 8:38:12 PM#21

i would have to agree everyone using the same ole races

i just couldnt imagine a half orc haha

  Kuro1n

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 779

3/25/13 1:07:35 AM#22
Originally posted by Eir_S
I would LOVE to play as an angel race.  Also giants and ogres don't get nearly enough love or lore in MMOs.

Go play aion! :p

On a more serious note, yes I agree... there are so many interesting races that don't get any spotlight, giants and ogres among those. Everyone wants silly elves and fat drunken dwarfs etc. :(

  BahamutKaiser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 297

On hiatus for a while guys, MMOs still aren't interesting me.

3/25/13 12:27:18 PM#23

I actually have nothing against elves and dwarfs... but when their used all the time, it doesn't feel like fantasy anymore...

I mean, these things are foreign and unnatural, so they lend a sense of fantasy, but when you use them all the time they become just as familiar as anything else.

Top that off with the fact that most games don't give different races any distinguishable gameplay, skills, or sometimes, even equipment... and it's kind of like... hey, my human has pointy ears and a solemn expression >.> or is short and gruffy...

Honestly, it would be a step up to have more character apperances, but even a reskin of existing gameplay will be a little lack luster, you don't wanna operate hand held weapons as a dragon or wear the same plate mail, of at all, or attack with the same skills with nothing but an appearance difference. The really need to think of unique environments, combat variety, and gameplay for significant roles, flight combat, naval combat, underwater combat, even under ground combat (for the life of me I could never see how a dwarf would have an advantage, unless he was able to fit in small spaces and gain an advantage underground).

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.

  Kuro1n

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 779

3/25/13 12:39:17 PM#24
Well part of the problem is everything has to be balanced these days, because everyone is going for the cookiecutter build in every game. It's quite boing.
  BadSpock

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7769

Logic be damned!

3/25/13 12:52:32 PM#25

I believe you have to have unified aesthetics - a "theme" flowing through different aspects of the game that unifies the experience.

This covers everything from playable races to clothing/armor and NPCs and of course geography and creatures/monsters.

Having something too "alien" and too bizarre has never been received well by the masses.

There is such a thing as too much variety.

You lose any commonality, which is used to bond player together and bond players to the world they inhabit.

Does it have to be your "standard" humans/orcs/elves/dwarves? No, of course not.

But having too much variety, not enough unifying themes etc. can make your world/universe seem far too disjointed and random.

Which then becomes increasingly difficult for a player to relate to and invest in emotionally.

 

 

Now Playing: Destiny, WoW

  BahamutKaiser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 297

On hiatus for a while guys, MMOs still aren't interesting me.

3/25/13 3:27:40 PM#26
^Emotionally attached to dragons?

Okami was a very compelling game, and I'm certainly not attached to elves n dwarves. Never met a compelling elf... Unless you include compulsion to vomit (Orlando Bloom) or laugh (Will Ferall). Maybe its just an Asian thing, but I admire power and awe.

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20673

3/25/13 3:50:46 PM#27
Originally posted by Kuro1n
Well part of the problem is everything has to be balanced these days, because everyone is going for the cookiecutter build in every game. It's quite boing.

Not in D3. There are planning of gimmick builds, like the zero dogs WD. True, they are not as popular as the top ones, but all are viabe.

In fact, if you go onto youtube, there are tons of experimenting with builds.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3481

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

3/25/13 3:54:41 PM#28

Agree with all you said :)


Originally posted by BahamutKaiser
But everyone has their own taste in roles, for characters and foes. Me personally, I don't want any steriotypical demons which are simply fallen angels. When I think fallen angel, I assume both angels and demons are the same, rather, I'd play demons that were angels, and their name is just a status. If we go with a natural angelic lore, actual angels would be just like the manticore, they do not have freedom because they are servents of the holy, whereas a fallen angel (demon) would be free to choose his own path. Beyond that, if you have angels and vampires in a game, I'd rather have vampires represent the bat winged, evil biped. We all have our own tastes :]

This part here I'd like to add a thought or two on. Dragons as a player race is one of my pet peeves. To me, Dragons are the ultimate power in a world. They take out entire cities with their breath, wipe out entire armies, and should be tough to kill. I just find it hard to fathom a "1st level Dragon" is killed by a lonesome rat early on. Now, if there was a way a player could become a dragon much later on in their career (think almost at or at end of leveling), I could swallow that concept much more easily.

Demons and angels fall into this category for me. These are "otherworldly" beings with immense power that have no business dieing to a rat or two. Again, later on in a character's life cycle, these could be options for character "races", as such.

There are some mythological beasts that are inherently evil, good, mischievous, nasty, anti-whatever and would not make for good player races, because not many players would play them as such. Magical constructs is another tough one for me to swallow :) Seeing a player fire elemental would be too much for me.

You are right, though. Like almost everything else, people have their own likes and dislikes.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

3/25/13 3:57:36 PM#29

There are a great many reasons why we dont have it.

Asherons Call came out right around the time EverQuest did.

EverQuest, straight up D&D ripoff. Became popular despite some seriously bad game designs. Lose every single thing on death AND forced you to camp a spot for hours on end for a mob.

Asherons Call, 100% unique world and creatures. Low population despite some seriously great game designs. Fast paced, open class, sandbox, an immense crafting system and a magic system that no MMO has come close to touching since.

EQ set the standard and created a large lack of original thought in developers to follow...just look at TESO. They are taking an EXISTING IP, I mean...the races are ALREADY THERE and yet they are so locked into this mindset that they are taking the ALIEN looking elves and making them standard faire pretty because they think THEY HAVE TO!

Only players can change the genre by stop buying MMOs that fall in line and MAKE them change.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20673

3/25/13 3:59:37 PM#30
Originally posted by jtcgs

Only players can change the genre by stop buying MMOs that fall in line and MAKE them change.

Players are not looking for change. They are looking for fun. Are you saying MMOs that fall in line are no fun for anyone?

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

3/25/13 4:01:25 PM#31
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by jtcgs

Only players can change the genre by stop buying MMOs that fall in line and MAKE them change.

Players are not looking for change. They are looking for fun. Are you saying MMOs that fall in line are no fun for anyone?

 Odd and here this entire thread is about wanting more interesting species and races...one would call that a change.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3481

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

3/25/13 4:29:31 PM#32


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by jtcgs
Only players can change the genre by stop buying MMOs that fall in line and MAKE them change.

Players are not looking for change. They are looking for fun. Are you saying MMOs that fall in line are no fun for anyone?

I wish I could follow your criteria. I can find "fun" in almost any game I play. The MMOs I have tried in the past several years all had some aspect of "fun" within them. None of them have held my interest long enough to justify their box price. Even F2P games do not justify their "entry fee" for me to spend much time in them.

Nowhere is there a world that calls to me to spend my time there for very long. I know you disagree with me, but there are other criteria besides "fun."

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20673

3/25/13 5:13:48 PM#33
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


I wish I could follow your criteria. I can find "fun" in almost any game I play. The MMOs I have tried in the past several years all had some aspect of "fun" within them. None of them have held my interest long enough to justify their box price. Even F2P games do not justify their "entry fee" for me to spend much time in them.

 

Nowhere is there a world that calls to me to spend my time there for very long. I know you disagree with me, but there are other criteria besides "fun."

Yes. i would disagree. So what if i don't want to spend much time in a particular world? Even if it is fun for a few hours, it would be on par with other entertainment like SP video games, or movies.

Now i don't understand your "entry fee" comment for F2P. Are you saying no F2P game is even as fun as the worse Sp game that you will play for a while?

I find many F2P fun enough to waste some time on.

  dumpcat

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/12
Posts: 253

3/25/13 5:55:04 PM#34
Yeah an MMO inspired by the Spore creature editor could be sick, as long as it was a true open and persistant world.
  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3481

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

3/25/13 6:09:55 PM#35


Originally posted by nariusseldon
Now i don't understand your "entry fee" comment for F2P. Are you saying no F2P game is even as fun as the worse Sp game that you will play for a while?

I try to like the F2P games I have tried (otherwise I would not try them out), and sometimes find some fun if I look hard. But in the end, it was not worth my time to download, install, create an account, and subsequently uninstall the games and try to delete the account. Time is valuable, too, yes? And the time defragging the HDD after many install/uninstalls adds up.

I have paid $30 for Morrowind and $60 for Skyrim (plus DLCs). I have played either game longer than my last few MMOs combined, very rarely sticking around long enough for an expac to be released. There are other games I have paid the same or less for that I still play now and then that are over ten years old. Better "bang for the buck", in my opinion. I can spend $60 for every new MMO that comes out (or download all the F2P ones), but if I am done in a month or two, it was not money well spent (or time invested for the F2P MMOs), in my opinion. Of course, every player has their own criteria.

Back On Topic: If there were a wider selection of races, my time may increase as I try them all out to see where I find the fun factor for me.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  BahamutKaiser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 297

On hiatus for a while guys, MMOs still aren't interesting me.

3/25/13 6:25:08 PM#36
Yeah, if there were unique characters with different gameplay and, alternate story portions it would radically enhance the amount of experiences you could have in that one world.

As for balance, there are creative ways to make disadvantages and advantages for special features. Like flying causing you to take more damage, making you susceptible to ranged and give you incentive to fight on the ground. Others could swim, regular bipeds could accend into higher beings, like vampires or some air bender immitation. Some superior beings could be available only at higher levels, like angels... Though I will mention that dragons could be reared at birth.

As for good old rats >.< why do they exist? As opponents :P what's is this communities obsession with rat analogies XD

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12406

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

3/25/13 6:46:37 PM#37
Originally posted by jtcgs

EQ set the standard and created a large lack of original thought in developers to follow...

One could say that developers simply went by the data on player behavior, which has been consistent from EQ to present - deviate from standard fantasy and gamers simply don't connect with it as well.

Oh wait... nm...

it's those lazy, uncreative devs! *waggles finger*

 

 

;)

 

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12406

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

3/25/13 6:52:53 PM#38
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by jtcgs

Only players can change the genre by stop buying MMOs that fall in line and MAKE them change.

Players are not looking for change. They are looking for fun. Are you saying MMOs that fall in line are no fun for anyone?

 Odd and here this entire thread is about wanting more interesting species and races...one would call that a change.

The problem though is that narius is correct. Either the people here are an extreme minority or they simply think they want it until they have it in a game. Whatever the case, players just don't go for it.

 

Think about it in all its wonderous glory:

Lots of races, each with their lush themed environments and history... cool! 

So you want fast travel? NO THAT WILL RUINZ TEH GAME! Ok, so if you want to make a Salamander guy and your buddies want to make a Firedillo and a Half-Carrot, are you fine with each person doing an hour run to get together just to start playing? Yes? Well, then you're some tiny tiny minority because everyone else has rejected it so far. 

Vanguard is a great example of giving people what they want, then they say it sucks and then when their problem is fixed they claim the game was dumbed down.  

 

 

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Zorgo

Elite Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2267

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

3/25/13 6:59:18 PM#39
Originally posted by Quizzical

This seems like a decent enough place to talk about something I'd like to do in a project I'm working on:  let players create their own playable species.  That's right:  player created artwork for fully playable characters that you can go out and fight monsters and play through the entire game with.  That would basically amount to the most versatile character creator ever, and by an enormous margin.

Still, the question is how to do it.  

Have you seen champions online char creator? It isn't quite as flexible as what you propose, but, that said, there is a lot you can do with their system. In anycase, if you haven't messed with it, it may give you some inspiration. It goes well beyone the CoH - customize through clothes and dives into customizing physical structure as well.

  AlBQuirky

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Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3481

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

3/25/13 7:02:24 PM#40


Originally posted by BahamutKaiser
Yeah, if there were unique characters with different gameplay and, alternate story portions it would radically enhance the amount of experiences you could have in that one world.As for balance, there are creative ways to make disadvantages and advantages for special features. Like flying causing you to take more damage, making you susceptible to ranged and give you incentive to fight on the ground. Others could swim, regular bipeds could accend into higher beings, like vampires or some air bender immitation. Some superior beings could be available only at higher levels, like angels... Though I will mention that dragons could be reared at birth.As for good old rats .why do they exist? As opponents :P

what's is this communities obsession with rat analogies XD



oooo! I never thought about dragon hatchlings! Interesting idea :)

The beings at higher levels often times equates to "reach level X and then this becomes available" like the Death Knights in WoW. They get treated as a separate character rather than a continuation, or growth, of the same character.

My favorite character of all time is an old (1980) D&D character that was a Half-Elf and later on became a Centaur due to a reincarnation spell. My DM had that transformation have some bad effects like being a horse in a dungeon = not good. The simple acts of turning around in a 10' hallway or navigating stairs became dexterity rolls! 5' Hallways were "back-out" only :)

This kind of variety is gone from MMORPGs now.

The rat references come from the old MMOs where rats were a very common "starter character" opponent for many MMOs :) Wolves, too, for that matter, though a little tougher.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

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