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General Discussion  » Wildstar - raiding focus officially explained

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98 posts found
  Dogblaster

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 505

3/25/13 4:32:02 AM#41
Originally posted by Vembumees

They offer second hand gear, because everything nonraiders do don't require more. There is absolutely zero, absolutely no reason, for a person who does not do raids, to get equal gear to raiders, other than just jealousy. People like you hate this system, because you are a god damn greedy person and for some reason you don't realize it yourselves. You just want what others have. Why do you need the raiding gear? To do larger crits to critters? Raids give better gear because higher level gear have such things as gear checks, which stop players from progressing if they do not meet the gear requirements, which is for offering more challenge and more content per time. Giving the players who do not raid, raiding gear, only destroys the difficult of raiding. Then games (wow these days in challenge modes, done only thanks to greedy players like you who just want to have what others have, even if they don't ever use it) have to actually make mechanics like changing your gear values in the raid instance, so that people wouldn't faceroll the content with the best gear that you can easily obtain (without raiding).

 

Casuals hate raiding only because of greed. You hate your neighbour who has a ferrari only because you don't have a ferrari. Even tho you don't need one at all.

Exactly :)
  Dogblaster

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 505

3/25/13 4:37:11 AM#42
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by Margulis
Originally posted by Vembumees
 

 

Casuals hate raiding only because of greed. You hate your neighbour who has a ferrari only because you don't have a ferrari. Even tho you don't need one at all.

Really?  I thought I hated raiding because of the immense time commitment  and the monotony.  But it seems you know me better than I know me - so yeah must be greed.

i actully hate large scale raiding because it normally leads to elitism. to be honest i could care less about haveing the best ubber gear in the game, why cause i dont really care about the whole e-pean thing.

to be honest if more raids where casual friendly and FUN, instead of you have to do this this exact way with this exact build, then id prob like them more, but even if  devs try to make them that way its the players that tend to cause this effect.

their is only one game that did end game raids that was friendly to both casuals and hardcore players at the same time, and didnt have the eliteist fill to it, but its dead now so meh.

Elitism and time commitment exist and will exist in mmorpgs either you have raids or dont. This also exist in real life ... so whats the problem?

  User Deleted
3/25/13 4:41:37 AM#43
Originally posted by Dogblaster

Elitism and time commitment exist and will exist in mmorpgs either you have raids or dont. This also exist in real life ... so whats the problem?

So we have to copy all very bad things from RL to computer games? Even distort it to be worse than in RL? And then wonder why they fail one by one?

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

 
OP  3/25/13 7:34:07 AM#44
Originally posted by Dogblaster
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by Margulis
Originally posted by Vembumees
 

 

Casuals hate raiding only because of greed. You hate your neighbour who has a ferrari only because you don't have a ferrari. Even tho you don't need one at all.

Really?  I thought I hated raiding because of the immense time commitment  and the monotony.  But it seems you know me better than I know me - so yeah must be greed.

i actully hate large scale raiding because it normally leads to elitism. to be honest i could care less about haveing the best ubber gear in the game, why cause i dont really care about the whole e-pean thing.

to be honest if more raids where casual friendly and FUN, instead of you have to do this this exact way with this exact build, then id prob like them more, but even if  devs try to make them that way its the players that tend to cause this effect.

their is only one game that did end game raids that was friendly to both casuals and hardcore players at the same time, and didnt have the eliteist fill to it, but its dead now so meh.

Elitism and time commitment exist and will exist in mmorpgs either you have raids or dont. This also exist in real life ... so whats the problem?

How could one argue with such profound logic and thought process?

  Sagorn

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/25/13
Posts: 18

3/25/13 7:53:25 AM#45

I have been semi-following Wildstar with some interest. I don't mind if any game has raids as long as they have some other form of end game for people who do not like to raid or group with others. I do not like my gameplay being forced on to me. Raid or dungeon or your character won't get any better. I don't mind grinding for money, or gear, or crafting materials, or whatever else, but let me do it on my owm, how I want, and when I want. If people want to raid for their gear, cool.. have fun. If someone wants to just farm mobs for 4 hours to get the materials to craft a piece of raid-level gear, they should be able to do that too.

 

People say if you can get raid-level gear yourself, nobody will raid. I don't know if that is true, but if it is, what does that tell you about how many people actually LIKE to raid then? I don't have any statistics, but in my experience and as my own opinion, I think most people raid because it is pretty much the ONLY way to make their character(s) *better*. I also don't have any hard evidence that people play longer if they are forced to group because of the social aspect of the game, but it is definitely not that way for me. Every game I have ever stopped playing had nothing to do with being "lonely", but I just got bored, and I got bored because there was nothing to do BUT raid and dungeon grind which held no interest for me after doing it for years.

 

I think the next MMO that becomes a "WoW Killer" will have something for everyone. The social players, the solo-ers, the hardcore players, the casuals, everyone. I really don't understand why this is so hard to do. A lot of the content that would keep people playing doesn't have to be resource intensive content like raids, and new zones, it could be focused on housing or some sort of alternate ability grind like in EQ. Even at max level, if I go out and kill mobs, my character should be getting *better* somehow. Again, the AA system in EQ was perfect, and this was done 14-ish years ago and yet I have not seen anything like it since.

 

--Sagorn

  Yalexy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 1020

3/25/13 8:31:43 AM#46

Focusing on any PvE as endgame-content is pretty boring after a short while.

I guess that most people will look for endgame-content in the contested areas, if Wildstar gets it right.

  Snigerknud

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/13
Posts: 60

3/25/13 8:35:56 AM#47
Cant wait for this one...love raiding and even better with the 40man style as in the old days wow vanilla :)
  Xiaoki

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2428

3/25/13 2:32:38 PM#48

WoW dumped 40 man raids for a reason: the players demanded it.


You can NOT base a large part of the game(and lets not kid ourselves here, raiding will be a large part of Wilstar's endgame) that is aimed solely at the hardcore elitist player.


The hardcore elitist may complain that MMOs dont cater to them, then well the answer to that is: be more than 10% of the game's population.


I just hope that it doesnt take another Naxxramas debacle for Carbine to see that 40 man raids is not a viable endgame option.

  Djildjamesh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/09/11
Posts: 404

3/25/13 4:25:56 PM#49
Originally posted by Xiaoki

WoW dumped 40 man raids for a reason: the players demanded it.


You can NOT base a large part of the game(and lets not kid ourselves here, raiding will be a large part of Wilstar's endgame) that is aimed solely at the hardcore elitist player.


The hardcore elitist may complain that MMOs dont cater to them, then well the answer to that is: be more than 10% of the game's population.


I just hope that it doesnt take another Naxxramas debacle for Carbine to see that 40 man raids is not a viable endgame option.

WoW is trying to get people into raiding that wern't interested in the first place by going the 40m > 25m > 10m > LFR route.
 It didn't had so much to do with players demanding it. Blizzard just wanted more people to see the content and thus they tried to make it more accesible.

Im interested to see what wildstar can do at this front :)

 

Naxxramas 40m was endgame raiding just like 25m sunwell was... why don't you complain about that :p

  mysticjbyrd

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/26/11
Posts: 18

3/26/13 3:16:37 AM#50
Originally posted by Stromm
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by Margulis
Originally posted by Vembumees
 

 

Casuals hate raiding only because of greed. You hate your neighbour who has a ferrari only because you don't have a ferrari. Even tho you don't need one at all.

Really?  I thought I hated raiding because of the immense time commitment  and the monotony.  But it seems you know me better than I know me - so yeah must be greed.

i actully hate large scale raiding because it normally leads to elitism. to be honest i could care less about haveing the best ubber gear in the game, why cause i dont really care about the whole e-pean thing.

to be honest if more raids where casual friendly and FUN, instead of you have to do this this exact way with this exact build, then id prob like them more, but even if  devs try to make them that way its the players that tend to cause this effect.

their is only one game that did end game raids that was friendly to both casuals and hardcore players at the same time, and didnt have the eliteist fill to it, but its dead now so meh.

This is the challenge for the Wildstar devs.

Whats that?  A threat, that if they comply with what the casuals want the game will be 'dead'?

 

Originally posted by tintilinic
Originally posted by Dogblaster

Elitism and time commitment exist and will exist in mmorpgs either you have raids or dont. This also exist in real life ... so whats the problem?

So we have to copy all very bad things from RL to computer games? Even distort it to be worse than in RL? And then wonder why they fail one by one?

Copy?  Just because you are behind a computer screen doesn't mean you are any less human.  You area  flawed human, and you experience emotions such as envy. 

 

There is no 'fix' for this!

  Xarko

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/10/11
Posts: 375

3/26/13 3:47:15 AM#51
So far I like most stuff I hear about Wildstar and will probably give it a try, BUT I have to agree with people who say that going for 40man raids was a terrible , terrible idea.
  Punk999

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/04
Posts: 878

3/27/13 5:13:40 PM#52

The bigger the raid the more i actually wanna do it.

Small scale raiding just doesnt have that "Epic" feeling to me.

"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
^MMORPG.com

  Arthasm

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/26/09
Posts: 632

3/27/13 5:33:59 PM#53
Great news! Can't wait!
  User Deleted
3/28/13 3:51:00 AM#54
Originally posted by mysticjbyrd
Originally posted by Stromm
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by Margulis
Originally posted by Vembumees
 

 

Casuals hate raiding only because of greed. You hate your neighbour who has a ferrari only because you don't have a ferrari. Even tho you don't need one at all.

Really?  I thought I hated raiding because of the immense time commitment  and the monotony.  But it seems you know me better than I know me - so yeah must be greed.

i actully hate large scale raiding because it normally leads to elitism. to be honest i could care less about haveing the best ubber gear in the game, why cause i dont really care about the whole e-pean thing.

to be honest if more raids where casual friendly and FUN, instead of you have to do this this exact way with this exact build, then id prob like them more, but even if  devs try to make them that way its the players that tend to cause this effect.

their is only one game that did end game raids that was friendly to both casuals and hardcore players at the same time, and didnt have the eliteist fill to it, but its dead now so meh.

This is the challenge for the Wildstar devs.

Whats that?  A threat, that if they comply with what the casuals want the game will be 'dead'?

 

Originally posted by tintilinic
Originally posted by Dogblaster

Elitism and time commitment exist and will exist in mmorpgs either you have raids or dont. This also exist in real life ... so whats the problem?

So we have to copy all very bad things from RL to computer games? Even distort it to be worse than in RL? And then wonder why they fail one by one?

Copy?  Just because you are behind a computer screen doesn't mean you are any less human.  You area  flawed human, and you experience emotions such as envy. 

 

There is no 'fix' for this!

Ooooh, id love to point out some history on such "envy" but my post would be deleted.

1. Its not envy

2. theres an easy fix

  Xarko

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/10/11
Posts: 375

3/29/13 4:23:27 PM#55
Originally posted by Punk999

The bigger the raid the more i actually wanna do it.

Small scale raiding just doesnt have that "Epic" feeling to me.

Well enjoy your pug zergs then. Id rather do some smaller raids with reliable guild members, where boss fights are interesting :)

  kompleksaki

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/11
Posts: 83

3/30/13 1:01:45 AM#56
Originally posted by Xarko
Originally posted by Punk999

The bigger the raid the more i actually wanna do it.

Small scale raiding just doesnt have that "Epic" feeling to me.

Well enjoy your pug zergs then. Id rather do some smaller raids with reliable guild members, where boss fights are interesting :)

It all depends on the difficulty of the raids and the bosse's mechanics.Just take a look at vanilla wow's raids and you will get what the Wildstar developers want to achieve with their 40 man raids (he talks about raid at 7:55) : http://youtu.be/dDfQEhnHFak

Watch that and you will get how hard 40 mans where back at the older days,where not everyone and their moms where able to complete them.They weren't zerg fests at all.

Btw, good luck puging 40 man Nax and AQ or even finding a guild that would complete them.

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

 
OP  3/30/13 5:45:39 PM#57
Originally posted by kompleksaki
Originally posted by Xarko
Originally posted by Punk999

The bigger the raid the more i actually wanna do it.

Small scale raiding just doesnt have that "Epic" feeling to me.

Well enjoy your pug zergs then. Id rather do some smaller raids with reliable guild members, where boss fights are interesting :)

It all depends on the difficulty of the raids and the bosse's mechanics.Just take a look at vanilla wow's raids and you will get what the Wildstar developers want to achieve with their 40 man raids (he talks about raid at 7:55) : http://youtu.be/dDfQEhnHFak

Watch that and you will get how hard 40 mans where back at the older days,where not everyone and their moms where able to complete them.They weren't zerg fests at all.

Btw, good luck puging 40 man Nax and AQ or even finding a guild that would complete them.

So again we're at the same endpoint - endless development dollars and hours spent on content <10% of the game population gets to experience.  Makes total sense.

  Risstor

Novice Member

Joined: 3/27/13
Posts: 12

3/30/13 5:52:15 PM#58
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Originally posted by Margulis

http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/what_is_wildstar_raids.php

So where's the focus?  Seems like raiding to me.  And I guess if you're one of the few really hardcore raiders out there you'll love this.

 You obviously didn't read the very article you linked. If you had, you would have seen this line:

"The last point on this topic, is to not assume that raids will be "the endgame" as is the case in many MMOs. It is simply "an endgame." For players who don't love this sort of content, there will be many other avenues and heaps of other Elder game content that will not require a player to set a foot inside a 20- or 40-man instance."

i agree

but we are still awaiting more details about the elder nonraid game -- hopefully PAX will have info

But we've all heard that before right?  Every game that has raiding, Rift, WoW, EQ2, touts viable alternatives, but the raiding always ends up being the pinnacle event for progression.  Raiders aren't going to share that end game shiny and non-raiders are going to see the claim and situation for what it is.

All the non-raid content in Rift, LotRO or EQ2 doesn't require a player to set foot inside a raid either.  All three of those games gate the nicest equipment and shinies behind their raids.  Non-raiders get second hand gear, second hand progression, but the game is true to their claim.  Raiding, as it's been implemented, has been overdone and is one of the tropes that is holding themepark progress back.

edit: Also there is already another thread about this.

it is a pity there is no voting on posts on this website - or even a "like" button - or a way to give karma

1000+ karma with a thumbs up icon right here 

  Panzerbase

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 431

3/30/13 10:21:13 PM#59
This game sounds like Vanilla WoW tuned up for the 2013, and I love it, no other period in my MMO gaming history even came close. I hope they nail it and go P2P. As a note I missed EQ and I've heard many good things about those days as well, so here's hoping for some old school fun with a modern revamp.
  Vembumees

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/13
Posts: 86

3/31/13 4:59:25 AM#60
Originally posted by Margulis
Originally posted by kompleksaki
Originally posted by Xarko
Originally posted by Punk999

The bigger the raid the more i actually wanna do it.

Small scale raiding just doesnt have that "Epic" feeling to me.

Well enjoy your pug zergs then. Id rather do some smaller raids with reliable guild members, where boss fights are interesting :)

It all depends on the difficulty of the raids and the bosse's mechanics.Just take a look at vanilla wow's raids and you will get what the Wildstar developers want to achieve with their 40 man raids (he talks about raid at 7:55) : http://youtu.be/dDfQEhnHFak

Watch that and you will get how hard 40 mans where back at the older days,where not everyone and their moms where able to complete them.They weren't zerg fests at all.

Btw, good luck puging 40 man Nax and AQ or even finding a guild that would complete them.

So again we're at the same endpoint - endless development dollars and hours spent on content <10% of the game population gets to experience.  Makes total sense.

Whether you understand it or not, people, including yourself, don't play just for your own experience. People like knowing and seeing that there are things out of their reach. Not gonna bother writing a wall of text elaborating.

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