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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Mark Jacobs and Company - Please do not REQUIRE monthly fees to play.

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264 posts found
  flizzer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1277

3/23/13 11:59:27 AM#241
I would prefer f2p.  I doubt I would play this game if it was a sub.   Fail to see how sub games are better than f2p,  
  KappenWiz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/06/07
Posts: 163

3/23/13 12:11:10 PM#242
Originally posted by flizzer
I would prefer f2p.  I doubt I would play this game if it was a sub.   Fail to see how sub games are better than f2p,  

Well, there are a lot of f2p setups, but generally, I'm distrustful of that system and it's incredibly immersion-breaking. It feels like you're getting nickel-and-dimed to death and you have to continually "unlock" the game as you go.

I've never paid in any game like that, I usually just screw around a few hours, then quit. To me it's as annoying as cardboard ads in books and magazines. Read a page, have to rip a card out, read another page, rip another card out, ad infinitum. And I bet the people who lead in those games pay a lot more than $15-20/month. So, it is pay to win, which would be the death of CU.

Once I'm in a game, I want to focus on gameplay. For an RvR game with the goals stated for CU, I think it's essential to have a subscription-based plan. Once you're in, everyone has same access and you're in that world.

 

  mackdawg19

Tipster

Joined: 5/28/07
Posts: 868

"If men were created equal, then what happened to game developers?"

3/23/13 12:16:34 PM#243
25 pages worth of non sense, seriously. The only difference between a F2P and P2P is the business model of getting cash from players. And sadly with F2P's, while the business model is probably the more accepted due to sheer volume of players playing, doesn't mean it's better. Most F2P's end up in a flux of some sort, were development stalls due to waiting for funds, whereas P2P's seem to have a more solid development cycle due to the fact that they usually can calculate how much funds they have and what they can develop a lot faster because there funds don't flucuate as much month to month after the first month of launch. Notice I said after the first month, usually when most players nowadays decide wether they like a game or not and drop it. With F2P's, there is no predictions because people can pick up and drop the game at an instant. ANd most of the time without paying a single dime. This game should go Sub and most likely will. Making a post on this forum won't change it, no matter how much time you spent creating it.
  Plastic-Metal

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 423

3/23/13 12:17:17 PM#244

I'm glad Mark/CSE are pushing a multi-tiered subscription plan; until we see what that entails, we can't jump to requesting "free to play".  However, I wouldn't be opposed to F2P if all F2P accounts were bound to the lowest levels and could only speak in /say and /group chats, and were unable to access the majority of the game except the major RvR areas.  Basically easy fodder for actual subscription players.

I would respond to the people in favor of the F2P plan, but it's trivial.  If you can't afford a cheap monthly fee for your gaming expense, you shouldn't be playing games in the first place - go get a job that doesn't pay minimum wage.  There's games out there that are built from the ground up with the F2P model in mind; go play that.  In the end, it won't happen for CU.  Pointless discussion and thread should be locked IMO.

My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

  jskeets916

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/13
Posts: 160

3/23/13 12:33:39 PM#245
Originally posted by Stiler
Originally posted by kraiden

I will never play a game for enjoyment thats Free to play, review them? Sure, but for my own casual at home consumption I know its a business. More money and more profits mean more work hours. more work hours = more patches. more patches = better product. Think about it, what killed warhammer? a rough spot when the economy in real life took a nose dive also the same time they had a major bugs that just didnt get fixed fast enough and made a large chunk of the population leave. and thats a company WITH subs.

compare how many patches came out for DAoC in the first  18 months compared to the number of patches that came out for LoTR. Even Guildwars which is selling like hotcakes still dosent have patches fast enough.

 

I will pay my 15 bucks per month. 80 of us pay 15 per month and thats the salary for a QA , change management or a Jr Dev.

 

I'm not sure what you're geting at here? ARe you implaying that a f2p game doesn't get patches fast enough, or have the means (money) to get them done in a timely manner?

 

It isn't like a free to play game developer constantly hires someone when they sell a few items on their cash shop then turns around and fires that person until they "sell" some more or something.

 

Guild Wars 2 for instance, has been having some decent NEW content patchest hat come around each month or so, compared to other mmo's that have sub's that dont' really get any new "content" updates rather maybe simple holiday events here and there but nothing major, until expansions and such.

I just don't see a connectiont o "patches" and f2p vs sub based, in my experience there's no huge difference vs them. If there' a bug or problem with the game, having the game be sub-based or f2p, the turn around to getting it patched seems similar to me regardless of where the money comes from. 

"In my experience there's no huge difference vs them."

That makes many of the subscription model players cases because those of us who approve of the subscription model have experiences where there is a huge difference, and you obviously either are a new age mmo player or haven't played a large variety of mmo's.

Sorry but the only example f2p players ever have are GW2 and SWTOR which are both garbage games in comparison to those of us who have subscribed to titles in the past.

"GW2 for instance has some decent new content patches."

Played GW2 and no the patches were not decent, maybe decent to a f2p expectation but unfortunately these are not my games of preference and their patches were unacceptable compaired to what i was used to.

What happened to structured pvp patch with custom games? Was supposed to come out months ago but its a f2p game so they cater to what will make them $, and right now thats PvE content so you get a few seasonal events and patches and you think this compaires to that of a healthy sub's game updates?

Not to mention GW2 pve is shallow at best most of my guildies were maxed out with little to do by the end of the first month, and WvW still has 0 purpose besides zerg fest...

Subscription model? Yes please, that way we can actually have things besides just timely patches, but actual content expansion with new classes, zones, loot etc..

 

  BowbowDAoC

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 482

3/23/13 1:04:19 PM#246

yeah 23 pages for nothing, since MJ said it

IT WILL BE SUB BASED !!!! i wonder how people can write if they obviously cant read or listen :D

Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR

  Tumblebutz

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 338

3/23/13 1:47:34 PM#247

This thread is possibly the most catastrophic waste of time, effort and bandwidth in the history of the multiverse.  I'm proud to be part of it.

 

PRATTLE ON, HEROES!  PRATTLE ON!

Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

RED IS DEAD!

  Spiider

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/15/05
Posts: 438

3/23/13 1:53:23 PM#248

Yada yada... they will do what they will do. So did EA do what they wanted to. And where are they now...

Sub based games are thing of the past, as retro as saturday night fever. F2P will win in every account. I guess there is no past learning this lesson for CU makers also. It's their business, its their call.

No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.

  Speely

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 864

3/23/13 3:16:47 PM#249
If the game the FPs are proposing is actual game they will develop, they can have lots of my moniez, and gladly.

Fuck it, I am willing to drive to Fairfax and go get them lunch and coffee, walk their dogs, mow their lawns, balance their checkbooks, hire them strippers, pluck their eyebrows, change their oil, compose birthday cards for their loved ones, bathe their infirm elderly relatives while reading them crime novels... For free. Just to get this goddamn game sooner.

I will run their fantasy football teams. And win.

I will compose sonnets for their spouses, lovers, and mistresses.

I will download their favorite Steam releases and update their gaming rigs to run them at 80fps on full settings.

I will record fucking Oprah and Ellen for them.

So monthly fee? Pfft, really? I don't even understand the concern. For something that will own your life, how is it even an issue?

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt

  Tumblebutz

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 338

3/23/13 3:22:40 PM#250
Originally posted by PerfArt
 
...I will record fucking Oprah and Ellen for them.

 

Which one are you going to fuck first?  Quite honestly, I think I'd like to see that recording, too.

Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

RED IS DEAD!

  Plastic-Metal

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 423

3/23/13 3:33:37 PM#251
Originally posted by Tumblebutz
Originally posted by PerfArt
 
...I will record fucking Oprah and Ellen for them.

 

Which one are you going to fuck first?  Quite honestly, I think I'd like to see that recording, too.

 

LOL.

 

My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

  rafalex007

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/13
Posts: 225

3/23/13 3:35:22 PM#252
i hope its B2P but most people are saying that MJ said it will be P2P, but who knows
  Speely

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 864

3/23/13 3:40:30 PM#253
@Plastic-Metal: lmao well-played. ISWYDT. :)

But seriously, Ellen. Mostly because there are far less men that could claim such a feat.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt

  Stiler

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 599

3/23/13 3:40:32 PM#254
Originally posted by jskeets916

"In my experience there's no huge difference vs them."

That makes many of the subscription model players cases because those of us who approve of the subscription model have experiences where there is a huge difference, and you obviously either are a new age mmo player or haven't played a large variety of mmo's.

Sorry but the only example f2p players ever have are GW2 and SWTOR which are both garbage games in comparison to those of us who have subscribed to titles in the past.

"GW2 for instance has some decent new content patches."

Played GW2 and no the patches were not decent, maybe decent to a f2p expectation but unfortunately these are not my games of preference and their patches were unacceptable compaired to what i was used to.

What happened to structured pvp patch with custom games? Was supposed to come out months ago but its a f2p game so they cater to what will make them $, and right now thats PvE content so you get a few seasonal events and patches and you think this compaires to that of a healthy sub's game updates?

Not to mention GW2 pve is shallow at best most of my guildies were maxed out with little to do by the end of the first month, and WvW still has 0 purpose besides zerg fest...

Subscription model? Yes please, that way we can actually have things besides just timely patches, but actual content expansion with new classes, zones, loot etc..

 


I have played mmo's since Ultima Online (my first), then EQ, AC, DAOC, Anarchy online, SWG, etc.

From my expeirence in terms of "updates" the game being free to play, or sub-based, had no real noticable impact in terms of patching and updates.

Asherons call has been (imo) the best mmo that delivered good content updates (not just patches), where they actually progressed the story, changed the world and elements within it, it made the world feel so dynamic and alive comapred to most mmo's.

Guild Wars 2 has been having monthly updates simialr to this style, having new events, new quest lines, etc I wonder if you've played these or like GW2 to begin with? In terms of "patching" and content updates there's just no way you can tell me that it's lacking or sub-par for the free content they put out.

Meanwhile you have games like WoW, sub-based, that are lucky to get patches, let alone content-updates that aren't made for expansions of some kind (and if you're lucky elements players without that expansion can experience).

Even UO wasn't huge on "content" patches of that kind, they had events they did which helped spice up the world from time to time, but there wasn't a lot of new content patching in it, mostly bug fixes/tweaks and things. Then expansions expansions expansions.

I have played some mmo's off/on that have went from Sub-based games to free to play (LOTR:online, Tera, The Secret World) and none of them have drastically changed in terms of patching or new content.

I just don't see, or haven't expeirence this supposed "patching stalls when a game goes f2p" that you guys are talking about. AC and GW2 are are the top as far as pushing new content (not just bug fixes, etc but actual in-game content via new npc's, quests, items, etc) , and one was sub-based while the other was buy to play.

 

  Plastic-Metal

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 423

3/23/13 3:51:38 PM#255
Originally posted by Stiler
 

Meanwhile you have games like WoW, sub-based, that are lucky to get patches, let alone content-updates that aren't made for expansions of some kind (and if you're lucky elements players without that expansion can experience).

 

Honestly, Stiler..  you can't compare WoW to anything in this industry.  WoW is a freak of nature and even Blizzard didn't predict their initial sales goals, much less long term peak performance; World of Warcraft literally is a cash cow.  Look at it from a business perspective, if you have millions of players chasing after the proverbial carrot on a stick that continue to pay month after month while having to wait half a year to a year to receive updates why change their business model?  

"Hell, I might as well keep playing since I've invested so much time on my [XYZ] class because I've been promised it'll be fixed in Patch V12.4.3 due out in seven months!"  - WoW Gamer #7,349,125

There's no disrespect to WoW or Blizzard as an entity, as they are obvious doing "something" right, but at this point in the game... I avoid comparing anything to World of Warcraft or Blizzard because they both have completely ruined the MMO industry. 

My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

  Muke

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1618

3/23/13 3:53:39 PM#256


Originally posted by sweetdigs
DISAGREE!!

Make it a monthly subscription.  No cash house.  No pay to win.  No pay to level past level 20. 

Just a flat monthly subscription so everybody is on equal footing.

 


this: nothing more annoying then hourly pop-ups about buying stuff in cash shops or trading card games.

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  morfidon

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/13
Posts: 245

3/23/13 4:12:17 PM#257
Originally posted by Zintair
Originally posted by morfidon
Originally posted by dynamicipftw

For everyone who is still anti-F2P: Try Path of Exile. Then compare it to D3 (unlimited funds).

You will find out that more money doesn't always equal better games.

WTF

You compare NOT mmo game to CU.

 

D3 and Path of Exile has nothing to do with mmo.

MMORPG = Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game

 

If they are RPGS... Online... and massively multiplayer then yes they are MMOs and can be comapred in a light to CU.

Massively Multiplayer of 4 people online on one server? yea....

  alexisevic

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/11
Posts: 41

3/23/13 4:14:08 PM#258
Originally posted by Stiler

 


I have played mmo's since Ultima Online (my first), then EQ, AC, DAOC, Anarchy online, SWG, etc.

From my expeirence in terms of "updates" the game being free to play, or sub-based, had no real noticable impact in terms of patching and updates.


 

 

Guess you have never played EvE then.  Monthly fee, and two guaranteed free expansions per year.  Quality updates each patch.  MJ has already said the EvE model is an inspiration for him; I'd say thats a smart idea. 

  Stiler

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 599

3/23/13 4:21:49 PM#259
Originally posted by morfidon
Originally posted by Zintair
Originally posted by morfidon
Originally posted by dynamicipftw

For everyone who is still anti-F2P: Try Path of Exile. Then compare it to D3 (unlimited funds).

You will find out that more money doesn't always equal better games.

WTF

You compare NOT mmo game to CU.

 

D3 and Path of Exile has nothing to do with mmo.

MMORPG = Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game

 

If they are RPGS... Online... and massively multiplayer then yes they are MMOs and can be comapred in a light to CU.

Massively Multiplayer of 4 people online on one server? yea....

Path of exile is similar in design to Guild Wars 1, the towns are hubs and support many people, way more then 4.

His point wasn't really about mmo's though, but rather saying that a free to play game, like Path of exile, is better then Diablo 3, which was a full priced title.

 

To many people that is a true statement, Path of exile seems to be more akin to Diablo 2, open skill tree's, etc and less of the RMAH focused design of diablo 3.

I prefer it by far over Diablo 3.

 

Originally posted by alexisevic
Originally posted by Stiler

 


I have played mmo's since Ultima Online (my first), then EQ, AC, DAOC, Anarchy online, SWG, etc.

From my expeirence in terms of "updates" the game being free to play, or sub-based, had no real noticable impact in terms of patching and updates.


 

 

Guess you have never played EvE then.  Monthly fee, and two guaranteed free expansions per year.  Quality updates each patch.  MJ has already said the EvE model is an inspiration for him; I'd say thats a smart idea. 

 

I tried to play eve for a while but I just couldn't get past it's combat. A space game that uses a mmo style combat system just doens't do it for me. I've played too much Wing Commander/freespace/X-wing games that I can't really get past that style of combat, unless it's an RTS style space game (a la Homeworld/Sins of a solar empire).

Eve is pretty mucht he example of a niche sub game that has baffled the industry though, there's nor really one like it in terms of niche/success that relies on subs. If that's what Mark wants CU to be I hop eit gets it.

 

  ragz45

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 482

3/23/13 5:45:47 PM#260
If it's FTP I honestly won't even try it.  After all of the FTP titles I have tried this year (with the FTP hype), I have yet to find a single FTP game that I can stand the community.  Every single FTP or BTP title I have tried is filled with the worst dreges of humanity.

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