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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » [POLL] Tab Targeting vs Action Combat

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306 posts found
  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/23/13 11:19:45 AM#41
Originally posted by Bossalinie
Originally posted by Manolios
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by strangiato2112

What I really miss about EQ is that the combat was focused on group interplay.

And I hate games where you have to constantly mash buttons, and this is both systems.  For instance, i find Rift rogues unplayable due to the 1 sec gcd where it comes down to mash mash mash mash.

 

I want combat to be interesting and dangerous and reward teamwork.  

 

I also hate the trend towards danger in numbers, big aoe fests.  Individual mobs are rarely dangerous anymore.

I'm the same as you.

I hate the trend towards console play, removing any strategy and making the game look like Street Fighter with swords.

Community, raids and group play reply on slow strategic and calculated combat, it requires tab targeting because it allows for target selection, strategy discussion, pulling strategies and CC...while action combat relies on button mashing solo play.

I'm sure it's fun to see your character swing and jump like a ballerina, but at the end of the day you're losing out on strategy and group interaction and raiding. Action combat raiding is a joke.

I'm boggled at the fact that many recent MMO give you the option to play with a controller.

I thought WoW was a casual game, action MMO take it to the next level and dumb down gameplay into dodge-combo fests while removing every strategy element.

 

this.

if you like raiding then there is no place for action combat in a mmo

It can be done, it just required more skills than you might be will to put out. You can't tell me that if you are guy who likes to be challenged, obtaining a boss victory using tanking and crowd controlling methods via action combat absolutely craps on tab target fights. 

Tab target lovers spam more than action combat fans...you just don't notice because the UI controls their fire. 

anything you could do in a tab target game you could implement in a action based game.. especially if you keep the holy trinity mechanics.. main difference is action based games generally revolve around some sort of aiming and dodge mechanic which makes the fights require you to be much more aware of everything going on but i can't see anything in any tab target game you couldn't implement into a game with tera style combat

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  arieste

Novice Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3301

3/23/13 11:20:01 AM#42

I don't mind a hybrid system like AoC or Tabula Rasa (TR had my favourite "Action" system).    I just don't want a system that's similar to an FPS where having to move my mouse really quickly to a point of pintpoint accuracy on the screen is the main skill involved.

 

Ultimatley the RPG gaming system is all about making the right choice of ability to use and the right target and time for that ability.   It's not about having good aim.   So some upgrades to make the system a bit more dynamic and fun, i'm all in favour of.  But i don't want to be playing a FPS.

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  CalmOceans

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1807

3/23/13 11:25:38 AM#43

I've looked at some Tera raids, and they're action raids like Vindictus. I see tail swipes, action mashing and general zerging. I hoped to see something different but it's the same zerg raiding that other games have.

I think the genre has many fans and people who love that kind of stuff, I just want raids to be slow and strategic.

This is a typicla EQ raid, from DoD, that shows slow and strategic gameplay http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGZ6XvbzCLA

No one is jumping around or moving like crazy, most casters and even melee are standing and coordinating the event. all mobs are divided and controlled, very slow, very strategic and with coordination.

 

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4375

3/23/13 11:27:12 AM#44
Originally posted by CalmOceans

doesn't that show an issue with the action gameplay you claimed is fine

In Tera it isn't an issue you say because you never have to CC like that and when you do, Tera already prelocked you onto the larger mob, so tera does the targeting for you.

isn't this exactly what we have been saying here, that it removes strategy?

You're either not trying to get what ppl are telling you or you're trying way too hard to be right when you have no idea what you'er talking about.

First hard cc like sheeping isn't the greatest thing ever. It's a pretty lame mechaninc imo. So if that's a must have feature in order to have stratagy we disagree on what stratagy is.

Tera doesn't target anything for you. You have a target reticul on your screen when you move it over mobs they light up and show target info. That's how you aim an attack. Some spells will lock on durring the casting ( most are single target heals ) but that's pretty much it.

You can pull out single mobs from a pack by aiming at them and attacking just them or some classes have skills like leash that will actually pull them to you.

As for button mashing...warrior heroic strike tanking in wow was 100 times the button mash any action combat ever will be. In tera if you just mash buttons the boss will crush you because you wont be able to get out of the way. They don't just face the tank and smash away at them. They move around, they push the tank around and they force even the ranged to pay attention. Just like in any good tab target boss fight you have to learn the fight and know when and where you have to move to or from. It's not just a zerg mash buttons till it's dead thing.

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  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4692

GW2 socialist.

3/23/13 11:28:52 AM#45
Originally posted by CalmOceans

I've looked at some Tera raids, and they're action raids like Vindictus. I see tail swipesm action mashing and general zerging. I hoped to see something different but it's the same zerg raiding that other games have.

 

Agreed with you and the poster just above you.  I like games like TERA and Neverwinter for their combat, but I think if you want anything deeper, there's going to have to be a hybrid system that allows for quick single targeting.  We're MMO gamers, what's with all the reflex based crap?

Gonna get carpal tunnel syndrome this way...... *grumble*

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/23/13 11:29:23 AM#46
Originally posted by CalmOceans

I've looked at some Tera raids, and they're action raids like Vindictus. I see tail swipesm action mashing and general zerging. I hoped to see something different but it's the same zerg raiding that other games have.

 

it's just how the encounters are designed they are designed for fast paced action.. But there is nothing really that would prevent tera from putting in encounters like any raid in wow or EQ1.. its just the target audience for tera is fast paced action not slow paced stuff like eq1.. 

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Vunak23

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/10
Posts: 659

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3/23/13 11:29:46 AM#47

 


Originally posted by dimasok Action combat. After playing TERA, playing any other MMOs with regular tab targeting is an exercise in frustration and anger.
This. Its gonna be really hard for me to jump into a tab target game after playing such amazing combat like TERA's. 

 

 


Originally posted by CalmOceans I've looked at some Tera raids, and they're action raids like Vindictus. I see tail swipes, action mashing and general zerging. I hoped to see something different but it's the same zerg raiding that other games have. I think the genre has many fans and people who love that kind of stuff, I just want raids to be slow and strategic. This is a typicla EQ raid, from DoD, that shows slow and strategic gameplay http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGZ6XvbzCLA No one is jumping around or moving like crazy, most casters and even melee are standing and coordinating the event. all mobs are divided and controlled, very slow, very strategic and with coordination.  
 

 

The reason for TERA's "raid" to be the way it is. It is substantially more difficult to coordinate a large group of players on that level of than it is in a tab target game. If they were to put in a raid that had more strategy in mind and didn't cater to just zerg it til its dead I would love them forever. But they would alienate a huuuuge chunk of players, just because of how extremely difficult it would be.

 

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  Bossalinie

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 618

3/23/13 11:49:20 AM#48
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Bossalinie

It can be done, it just required more skills than you might be will to put out. You can't tell me that if you are guy who likes to be challenged, obtaining a boss victory using tanking and crowd controlling methods via action combat absolutely craps on tab target fights. 

Tab target lovers spam more than action combat fans...you just don't notice because the UI controls their fire. 

by skill you guys are talking about action combos I am assuming, I played vindictus to lvl 70, the raids are basically like playing street fighter, you dodge-combo-and button bash like a lunatic

EQ raids which I enjoy, are slow, they take coordination, half the time is spent discussing strategies, you need to be very aware of others, you are in constant contact with others through chat and it's a slow and very organised event that takes practice, some will call them boring because they are not head-on fights, they are organised and strategic fights

I don't want skill in my MMO if it means Street Fighter skill, I don't want to play a console game on my PC

It's a little unfair to say that a game that requires more that press tab and 1-8 is console gameplay. Everything you mentioned can be done in an action mmo, coordination, strategy discussion, being aware of others...all of it. Like I said, it just requires more effort than it would take to play a slow game...but that's with anything, right?

  CalmOceans

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1807

3/23/13 11:57:57 AM#49
Originally posted by Bossalinie

It's a little unfair to say that a game that requires more that press tab and 1-8 is console gameplay. Everything you mentioned can be done in an action mmo, coordination, strategy discussion, being aware of others...all of it. Like I said, it just requires more effort than it would take to play a slow game...but that's with anything, right?

Maybe there are games I'm not aware of but the popular action games I played were extremely different from the game I'm used to, EQ.

 

In Vindictus I mashed buttons a lot, I needed to dodge a lot, I need a lot of skill, skill as in learning combos and being fast on the trigger.

In Everquest I need dedication, in a raid of 54 I need to know which cleric is going to heal me, I need to talk to that person, I need to tell her during the fight if any of my abilities drop, I need to communicate with the raid what I'm doing, where I'm at, which mob is mine and which is not. It's a slow process, it's one that often takes 30 minutes of discussions so we're all on the same page before we start. Raids take around 1 hour per event.

 

If you ask me which one I like best, well I enjoyed action games, I thought it was very fun, but I quickly realised I loved slow tab target games with strategy much more. I am not into rushing things or fast gameplay, I am not into learning how to do "combos" or learning how to avoid a tail swipe by making my character do a jumping jack or a barrel roll. It's just a different experience.

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

3/23/13 12:08:43 PM#50
Originally posted by Bossalinie
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Bossalinie

It can be done, it just required more skills than you might be will to put out. You can't tell me that if you are guy who likes to be challenged, obtaining a boss victory using tanking and crowd controlling methods via action combat absolutely craps on tab target fights. 

Tab target lovers spam more than action combat fans...you just don't notice because the UI controls their fire. 

by skill you guys are talking about action combos I am assuming, I played vindictus to lvl 70, the raids are basically like playing street fighter, you dodge-combo-and button bash like a lunatic

EQ raids which I enjoy, are slow, they take coordination, half the time is spent discussing strategies, you need to be very aware of others, you are in constant contact with others through chat and it's a slow and very organised event that takes practice, some will call them boring because they are not head-on fights, they are organised and strategic fights

I don't want skill in my MMO if it means Street Fighter skill, I don't want to play a console game on my PC

It's a little unfair to say that a game that requires more that press tab and 1-8 is console gameplay. Everything you mentioned can be done in an action mmo, coordination, strategy discussion, being aware of others...all of it. Like I said, it just requires more effort than it would take to play a slow game...but that's with anything, right?

Hypocritical much?

Because tab target games are about more than just pressing 1-8 on a keyboard.

 

The fact of the matter is until someone makes a deep action combat game people will remain skeptical of it.  TERA is pretty bad poster child for action combat, because its combat is shallow beyond belief.  GW2 is a step in the right direction and I liked the interplay between class abilities even if it isnt quite as cool as it sounded on paper.

But ultimately i don't think action combat is a great fit for the genre.  maybe you can have depth and strategy with it, but its not a natural fit for depth and strategy.  

  Bossalinie

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 618

3/23/13 12:26:12 PM#51
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by Bossalinie
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Bossalinie

It can be done, it just required more skills than you might be will to put out. You can't tell me that if you are guy who likes to be challenged, obtaining a boss victory using tanking and crowd controlling methods via action combat absolutely craps on tab target fights. 

Tab target lovers spam more than action combat fans...you just don't notice because the UI controls their fire. 

by skill you guys are talking about action combos I am assuming, I played vindictus to lvl 70, the raids are basically like playing street fighter, you dodge-combo-and button bash like a lunatic

EQ raids which I enjoy, are slow, they take coordination, half the time is spent discussing strategies, you need to be very aware of others, you are in constant contact with others through chat and it's a slow and very organised event that takes practice, some will call them boring because they are not head-on fights, they are organised and strategic fights

I don't want skill in my MMO if it means Street Fighter skill, I don't want to play a console game on my PC

It's a little unfair to say that a game that requires more that press tab and 1-8 is console gameplay. Everything you mentioned can be done in an action mmo, coordination, strategy discussion, being aware of others...all of it. Like I said, it just requires more effort than it would take to play a slow game...but that's with anything, right?

Hypocritical much?

Because tab target games are about more than just pressing 1-8 on a keyboard.

 

The fact of the matter is until someone makes a deep action combat game people will remain skeptical of it.  TERA is pretty bad poster child for action combat, because its combat is shallow beyond belief.  GW2 is a step in the right direction and I liked the interplay between class abilities even if it isnt quite as cool as it sounded on paper.

But ultimately i don't think action combat is a great fit for the genre.  maybe you can have depth and strategy with it, but its not a natural fit for depth and strategy.  

Don't get ahead of yourself. I was countering the idea that action mmos were compared to street fighter game play.

Depth and strategy is all about perceptions and opinions. It's fit in the MMORPG genre is drawing more and more attention as developers work with it.

  Maroxad

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/12
Posts: 27

3/23/13 2:49:21 PM#52

Whatever fits the rest of the game better.

For now I would be lying if I said I prefer Action combat over Tab targetting combat. However, I do think there is a lot more potential for action combat games, problem is the execution of a lot of the action combat mmos have been terrible.

First and quite possibly one of the most important things, raids can work with games with action combat BUT they have to be designed differently. A raid encounter in an action mmo should not be designed in the same way as they are in a tab targeted raid encounter. If I were to design a raid for an action mmo, it would rely a lot more on set pieces, clever level design and large enemy groups over bosses with inflated life bars, I seriously doubt an action game can do those anywhere near as well as a tab target game. Bosses in action games can be fun, but I havent seen a single action game handle a 10v1 boss fight well.

Another thing is that an action game imo needs a high lethality, if I am beating on your average mob for over 30 seconds and he has still not dropped dead, then the combat is not very good. Of course, some enemies can take over 30 seconds to kill, but the majority should be faster to defeat than that. That said, they can not be killed too fast either, there needs to be a balance, and from my experience, a lot of action mmos had this balance way off.

Also, what does easy mode cc and mostly effortless control over enemies have to do with tactics and strategy? From my experience they make combat no more tactical, if anything, I find that they have the opposite effect on tactics, no need to predict enemy moves, no need for formations, no risk vs reward, just spam ccs and outlast the foes.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 2914

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

3/23/13 2:52:33 PM#53


Originally posted by CalmOceans
If I wanted action combat I would play a console game with a controller where I could mash buttons.

Tab targeting allows for tactics like crowd control and splitting techniques that simply aren't possible during action zergfests.



My sentiments exactly.

I will also add that I want my "character" to have better dexterity than *I* do :)

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/23/13 2:53:01 PM#54
Originally posted by Maroxad

Whatever fits the rest of the game better.

For now I would be lying if I said I prefer Action combat over Tab targetting combat. However, I do think there is a lot more potential for action combat games, problem is the execution of a lot of the action combat mmos have been terrible.

First and quite possibly one of the most important things, raids can work with games with action combat BUT they have to be designed differently. A raid encounter in an action mmo should not be designed in the same way as they are in a tab targeted raid encounter. If I were to design a raid for an action mmo, it would rely a lot more on set pieces, clever level design and large enemy groups over bosses with inflated life bars, I seriously doubt an action game can do those anywhere near as well as a tab target game. Bosses in action games can be fun, but I havent seen a single action game handle a 10v1 boss fight well.

Another thing is that an action game imo needs a high lethality, if I am beating on your average mob for over 30 seconds and he has still not dropped dead, then the combat is not very good. Of course, some enemies can take over 30 seconds to kill, but the majority should be faster to defeat than that. That said, they can not be killed too fast either, there needs to be a balance, and from my experience, a lot of action mmos had this balance way off.

Also, what does easy mode cc and mostly effortless control over enemies have to do with tactics and strategy? From my experience they make combat no more tactical, if anything, I find that they have the opposite effect on tactics, no need to predict enemy moves, no need for formations, no risk vs reward, just spam ccs and outlast the foes.

if you are using the holy trinity in an action based game what mechanics could you not do in a action game you could do in a tab target game.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 2914

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

3/23/13 3:05:41 PM#55


Originally posted by fs23otm
At first I thought tab-targetting, but then i really thought about it and choose action combat.

Since playing GW2, Tera, NW.... I tried going back to a tab target game... and it was horribly slow un interesting combat. 

Then I thought back to may fav game and class.... EQ and the Bard.... sure it was tab target... but playing a bard was like playing an action combat game before there was action combat mmo's. So many thing to do and manage. 

So Action Combat is my fav, and I can't go back.



Twisting songs with a bard had nothing to do with "action combat", though. It sure felt more "actiony", but not what I consider action combat. It was playing 3-4 songs (5 if you had a flawless connection) that buffed your party, debuffed the MOB, did damage over time, healed over time, replenished mana over time, what have you. There was no aiming at an enemy and swinging your instrument :)

Action combat I see more as having a gazillion (ok, a few different) abilities or attacks and aiming with your mouse, dancing around during battles. I could be wrong, but that is how I see it.

It was tricky when soloing, but auto-attack was a Godsend while twisting your songs. Then, maybe you tried switching between weapons and instruments if you felt "in the zone" :D

It was more "busy" than standing there with auto-attack engaged and throwing in a kick when it cooled down or bash if you had a shield. Personally, I am a fan of auto-attack. I am old school that way :)

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  sodade21

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/18/09
Posts: 332

3/23/13 3:13:24 PM#56

action Combat ofc.

And as far as i know the only way companies did chose tab targeting over action was because of the tech and the lag back then..it was near impossible to have real action combat in mmo back then...well we are in better condition technically the fast internet is here to near everyone so that old system has to go away.

And skill wise its harder to actually actively dodge than a RNG roll of your gear do it for you. Roots and all kinds of CC can be very nicely on action combat if not even better.

 

If Blizzard could she would have done it in WoW...but its too old too different core wise and they wont invest so much money to change it at this point..same as the graphic engine... BUT their new gen game Titan gonna have Action combat..

sodade21 Xfire Miniprofile
  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 2914

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

3/23/13 3:29:34 PM#57


Originally posted by BahamutKaiser
The reason I don't like tab targetting is because it naturally subtracts the use of AoE attacks on optimal positions where you can hit more foes instead of directly at a single target. But honestly, a system can be designed to do both... even though I feel tab targetting makes it a little to easy to aquire your target though.

What about ground targeted AoE attacks?

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  BahamutKaiser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 295

On hiatus for a while guys, MMOs still aren't interesting me.

3/23/13 4:05:52 PM#58
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by BahamutKaiser
The reason I don't like tab targetting is because it naturally subtracts the use of AoE attacks on optimal positions where you can hit more foes instead of directly at a single target. But honestly, a system can be designed to do both... even though I feel tab targetting makes it a little to easy to aquire your target though.


What about ground targeted AoE attacks?

 

As soon as you start targetting the ground your adding action gameplay, that's exactly what I was talking about, attacking an ideal location instead of a specific target within reach of other foes.

If you look at the old GW original they had a lot of AoEs, but they all had to be cast on a foe, it made many of them really ineffective because if it was DoT or if the foe wasn't centeralized to a group it would be serve it's purpose. You may even want to cast it on a location with no foes as a deturant.

Beside that, I think one of the fundamental flaws with Action MMOs coming out is that they assume that because they are catering to an action oreinted crowd, they have to have constant imput. It would actually help a lot of Action games, and moreso, games which are looking for a more hybrid audience if the amount of button mashing was seperated into intervals, and effective approach, positioning, and battle pulse were used to allow for a more tactically involved experience instead of a dynasty warrior, thrash and bash experience. That kind of gameplay is amusing in solo play, but when your not thrashing NPCs, it looks silly, with 40 ppl doing the equivalent of bankai and super saiyan and just flooding the screen with nonstop offense.

There's almost nothing tab targetting can do better than free targetting outside of simply make the game easier, the fact that most action games go overboard with the offensive and eliminate a lot of other elements has little to do with the versatility of manual targetting. By using several targetting assistance methods like lock on (which basically includes everything a tab system offers in an action game), window targetting, and auto targetting, as well as changing the pace of combat for more tactical attention, You can serve anyone who has any interest in tabbing and most everything inbetween.

I hate to see division over something that's had a solution for over 15 years...

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.

  Maroxad

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/12
Posts: 27

3/23/13 4:08:51 PM#59
Originally posted by Aerowyn

if you are using the holy trinity in an action based game what mechanics could you not do in a action game you could do in a tab target game.

While you could implement more or less anything to an action mmo, I am not sure everything can be very well implemented. Action mmos can implement the holy trinity, but I find that the trinity doesnt work very well with the action nature of the game.

Point is, an action mmorpg would have to be done carefully. Just tacking on free aim, manual attacks and dodging to current encounter design philosophies and mechanics doesnt get you anywhere.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 2914

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

3/23/13 4:34:45 PM#60


Originally posted by BahamutKaiser

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Originally posted by BahamutKaiser
The reason I don't like tab targetting is because it naturally subtracts the use of AoE attacks on optimal positions where you can hit more foes instead of directly at a single target. But honestly, a system can be designed to do both... even though I feel tab targetting makes it a little to easy to aquire your target though.

What about ground targeted AoE attacks?

As soon as you start targetting the ground your adding action gameplay, that's exactly what I was talking about, attacking an ideal location instead of a specific target within reach of other foes.

I agree here. Once that mouse gets engaged for targeting, it becomes more "actiony."


Originally posted by BahamutKaiser
There's almost nothing tab targetting can do better than free targetting outside of simply make the game easier, the fact that most action games go overboard with the offensive and eliminate a lot of other elements has little to do with the versatility of manual targetting. By using several targetting assistance methods like lock on (which basically includes everything a tab system offers in an action game), window targetting, and auto targetting, as well as changing the pace of combat for more tactical attention, You can serve anyone who has any interest in tabbing and most everything inbetween.

I don't know. It seems like games with tab-targeting have more group wipes than action games. Maybe I am wrong here. It could also be attributed to "information sources" outside of the game that helps keep action games groups alive better?

From my personal experience, action game fights are quick. They are over and done with maybe 80% of the time. Tab targeting fights seem to take longer and make use of a wider range of abilities.

I never have gotten over seeing a Wizard or Cleric in EQ sitting down in the middle of a fight. LOL They were switching out spells or meditating to regain used mana, but I always shook my head at first :)

I think that the "strategy" in action games are pretty much in the minds of the players. It really does not matter what you do when, with a very few exceptions. Does it make a huge difference if I fire my arrows through that wall of flame? Not really.

On the other hand, when the 7 orcs are mezzed and I use an AoE, it makes a HUGE difference on the outcome of the fight.


Originally posted by BahamutKaiser
I hate to see division over something that's had a solution for over 15 years...

It would be cool to not have divisions. Action combat and tab-targeting combat are 2 very different playstyles. I don't believe there is a way to "bring them together" for those of us on the far ends of the feature.

Simply stated, I want my character to be more coordinated than me. Can action combat do this?

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

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