Trending Games | World of Warcraft | Guild Wars 2 | Elder Scrolls Online | EverQuest

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,905,754 Users Online:0
Games:757  Posts:6,296,305
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: MMO Design and Mickey’s 10 Commandments

20 posts found
  SBFord

Associate Editor - News Manager

Joined: 6/28/10
Posts: 14030

 
OP  3/21/13 3:53:10 PM#1

Making a great MMO is not an easy task. But there are ten things that every game designer should pay attention to in order to stand a better chance at success. See what those ten things are and then discuss them in the comments.

MMOs are like theme parks. No, not just “theme park” MMOs, even sandbox MMOs are like real world theme parks. However we, or our characters, move through them, MMOs are encapsulated worlds created to give people a temporary escape from day-to-day reality.

Today I write an open letter to game companies, using Disney’s famous, Mickey’s 10 Commandments as a template for game creation and continuation; in hopes that the wisdom of the undisputed leader in theme park design might inspire them to greater heights.

Read more of Lisa Jonte's Fair Game: MMO Design and Mickey’s 10 Commandments.

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7768

Logic be damned!

3/22/13 11:05:35 AM#2

Great list.

Lots of truth spoken here, well done.

Now Playing: Destiny, WoW

  BethelsBoy

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/08
Posts: 210

"What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion."

3/22/13 11:38:25 AM#3
thats awesome

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6646

Gaming should be about fun, not gender equality.

3/22/13 12:23:22 PM#4

Sandbox games uses storytelling? Say what?

Sandbox MMOs are about you, the players, creating the stories, in an online virtual world by interacting with each other and the environment and developers should be as hands of as possible in this. So not sure what you mean with "sandbox game use storytelling".

I would even go as far as saying that developer created quests should not even be in sandbox MMOs. They could, ofcourse, but that is not the main point of sandbox games.

  Winterclaw

Novice Member

Joined: 8/23/12
Posts: 28

3/22/13 12:32:40 PM#5

You forgot to list something very important: always listen to your playstesters.

 

If you get into beta and you are constantly being told that the game isn't ready, well it isn't, and you've got a lot of problems.

  Dracondis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/14/09
Posts: 165

3/22/13 1:12:02 PM#6
Originally posted by Yamota

Sandbox games uses storytelling? Say what?

Sandbox MMOs are about you, the players, creating the stories, in an online virtual world by interacting with each other and the environment and developers should be as hands of as possible in this. So not sure what you mean with "sandbox game use storytelling".

I would even go as far as saying that developer created quests should not even be in sandbox MMOs. They could, ofcourse, but that is not the main point of sandbox games.

This has to be one of the most ignorant comments I've read since the RG hate threads.  If sandbox MMOs are to have no storytelling, then they have no NPCs, no Mobs, no quests, no direction, no cities, no travel system, nothing.  Why?  Because all of those are part of a storytelling system.  NPCs aren't just there as J Random Vendordude.  They have a part in a story.  Their race, location, and even the goods they sell or the things they say help to craft the world the player interacts with.  Regardless of how sandbox you think an MMO is, it still has to have elements of a theme park, or it isn't a game, it's a sim.  And we've all seen recently how well Sim MMOs work out.

  BigHatLogan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/09/06
Posts: 695

3/22/13 3:15:44 PM#7

Micky is a wise, wise mouse.  Great post!

Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!

I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13678

3/22/13 3:25:33 PM#8
The problem with (4) is that if exploration merely means a highly inefficient way to find out what's on the wiki, people won't do it.
  jedi_night

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/06/04
Posts: 23

3/22/13 3:58:25 PM#9
Sandboxes do indeed have a story in them. Take EVE Online for example. Like it or hate it, it still has a story. The gorvenments, politics, wars and bad blood between the races are all a part of the story. As a player (character) in said sandbox, you are free to operate as you choose. Wether it is to be a politician in the player government working with CCP, or a wanted thug...or a simple trader, you take part in shaping the story, but there is always a back story to set parameters and early definition in the game.
  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

3/22/13 4:06:40 PM#10

kinda scary when something along the lines of "Don't make group content an afterthought" isn't listed

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  Aeolyn

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/23/08
Posts: 139

3/22/13 4:20:38 PM#11
Originally posted by Quizzical
The problem with (4) is that if exploration merely means a highly inefficient way to find out what's on the wiki, people won't do it.

I believe that's where the reward part comes in, wiki doesn't give rewards other than the knowledge to skip most of the game which negates the whole reason for playing said game, right? 

ie. if a game gives you the choice to do a quest where you could get some piece of equipment that gives you an edge, over just skipping over it and directly into your battle, would you take it?

  toxicmango

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 92

3/22/13 6:24:51 PM#12
Originally posted by jedi_night
Sandboxes do indeed have a story in them. Take EVE Online for example. Like it or hate it, it still has a story. The gorvenments, politics, wars and bad blood between the races are all a part of the story. As a player (character) in said sandbox, you are free to operate as you choose. Wether it is to be a politician in the player government working with CCP, or a wanted thug...or a simple trader, you take part in shaping the story, but there is always a back story to set parameters and early definition in the game.

EVE doesn't have a story and isn't a true sandbox.  It's no secret that CCP developers treat roleplayers and those that care about story with contempt.  It's no sandbox when live events that players participated in with two sides have pre-determined "correct" outcomes (i.e. the developers were forcing one side to lose).  The sandbox is a lie.  They want players to think they have a role but really it's all false with developers playing favorites and then blowing smoke to create the illusion of player choice.

 Have people so soon forgotten that CCP is the same company that was found with its developers blatantly cheating against their own customers in favor of their own buddies?  That is utterly against the very idea of a sandbox if developers are rigging it that if you are on the "wrong" side, whether that is by being the enemy of a developer's corporation or by being on the side rigged to lose in a story event, you are wasting time, effort, and equipment for a cause that you are guaranteed to lose.

  Tithenon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/11
Posts: 106

3/23/13 12:15:08 PM#13

Ms. Jonte,

 

I think you may be my new favorite author, here.  Absolutely outstanding article; I hope someone pays attention.  Thank you.

  Battlerock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/12/11
Posts: 996

3/23/13 1:29:07 PM#14
#11. Know what you are and what you are not.
  Theodwulf

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/01/12
Posts: 209

3/23/13 8:39:35 PM#15
Brava hopefully "They" read #1 and #2 , that would be a a good start.
  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3581

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

3/24/13 10:18:07 AM#16

Nice list, and good points to remember. But much of that becomes victim to the political games that get played in the typical studio.  All too often the lead Dev has a Vision(tm) problem, and the producers lack the people skills (experience) required to manage the creatives, in order to actually get things done, in a timely fashion.

Mix in suits who are in general clueless about the creative process (that this is very much an art, NOT a science, with all of the inherent implications), and lack any real understanding of games in general, coupled with investors who panic if their hand holders aren't up to the task, and the only wonder is that things don't turn out worse than they usually do.

  jbombard

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/06/08
Posts: 484

3/24/13 9:16:49 PM#17

Great Article.  Just a couple things though.  The link doesn't appear to be working.  Also even if the link did mention it(even though it currently is broken), you should probably mention the original author of those 10 commandments, Marty Sklar.

 

Also I think you missed the point on #4.  Which is about letting the customer know where they should go next through the use of visual "magnets".  I understand that exploring is nice and should be rewarded in an MMORPG, but that isn't really what the original point is about.  It is more about giving customers visual hints about where they can go to see more about what interests them.(Edit: not just giving hints but using the visual to pull them in that direction)

  RolanStorm

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/01/03
Posts: 43

Believe nothing of what you hear, and only half of what you see.

3/25/13 9:50:15 PM#18

Everything is very true, but this one:

'7. Tell One Story at a Time'

Oh my God, YES! Exactly. Please, one story at a time. Do something with side quests. Let them integrate into main plot more casual and logical.

Neverwinter did pretty good job on that, I had very good expression from this weekend beta.

eilertalemat Xfire Miniprofile
  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1828

3/26/13 1:08:21 PM#19

There are some good points in the list, but I think you are actualy off point in several important respects. The thing you've got to remember is that NOT all forms of entertainment are the SAME, so the things that work really well for one royaly suck eggs for another. For example seeing a movie is fun but it's a qualitatevely DIFFERENT experience then playing in a Softball game. Doing the things that work well for a Movie (many of which are on Mickey's list) make for a terrible softballl game.

Mickey's list mostly works well for one type of game... traditional THEMEPARKS..... It doesn't work so well for so well for sandbox MMO's or shooter type MMO's (e.g. Planetside 2) or RTS type MMO's or E-Sports MMO's because players of those games are LOOKING FOR and expecting something entirely different then you'd go to a (real world) Themepark for.

For Example #3 would suck in most sandboxes, shooters and fps games because strategic movement is an important and engaging part of the gameplay in those games. Priortizing where you go and traveling there with whatever resources your bringing with you is as important and FUN (in those games) as what spell you cast in a fight in another type of game. Whereas in a Themepark traveling from point A to point B is just a mundane chore in between the places where you are engaged and having fun.

#7 would suck in sandboxes because stories are simply hooks for the players to get involved in the world. You want THOUSANDS of them because part of the fun for the players is to play a CREATIVE role in helping to WRITE the story and SHAPE the world. If they only had one story to choose from and you dictated which one it was, that simply wouldn't work for them. They WANT the opportunity to get involved in as many or as few stories as suits thier taste....and they really don't want the outcome of the story(s) dictated to them.

.....and so on.

So your list only works well for one very specific form of entertainment with one very specific set of expectations from your players......but games...including MMO's are diverse enough that they include about 50 differerent forms of entertainment with about 50 different sets of expectations of experience...many of which entirely contradict points on your list. Just like you want the outcome of the movie you are watching to be written ahead of time, but you don't want the outcome of the softball game you are playing to be written ahead of time.

Sorry Mickey....you make good Themeparks and good movies...but not everything is a themepark or a movie.

  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1828

3/26/13 1:46:29 PM#20
Originally posted by Dracondis
Originally posted by Yamota

Sandbox games uses storytelling? Say what?

Sandbox MMOs are about you, the players, creating the stories, in an online virtual world by interacting with each other and the environment and developers should be as hands of as possible in this. So not sure what you mean with "sandbox game use storytelling".

I would even go as far as saying that developer created quests should not even be in sandbox MMOs. They could, ofcourse, but that is not the main point of sandbox games.

This has to be one of the most ignorant comments I've read since the RG hate threads.  If sandbox MMOs are to have no storytelling, then they have no NPCs, no Mobs, no quests, no direction, no cities, no travel system, nothing.  Why?  Because all of those are part of a storytelling system.  NPCs aren't just there as J Random Vendordude.  They have a part in a story.  Their race, location, and even the goods they sell or the things they say help to craft the world the player interacts with.  Regardless of how sandbox you think an MMO is, it still has to have elements of a theme park, or it isn't a game, it's a sim.  And we've all seen recently how well Sim MMOs work out.

Sandbox's do have Story...but it's NOT just ONE story. In a sandbox, each player wants to engage with the world in a way which interests them and play a meaningfull creative role in helping to shape it and the narratives which occur within it.

So #7 just doesn't work. You can't dictate/control the player that they are only involved in one story at a time and they must "finnish" it before moving on to the next. Because that doesn't allow the player the freedom to engage the world in ways that are interestinng to them....and it means that you predifine a definate "end" and "beginning" to each story...which takes away the players creativity in working to shape the narrative(s) and the world....and in a world with thousands of others it denies them the ability to play a meaningfull creative role in shaping anything if there is only one.

What you need for a good sandbox (for those that actualy ENJOY sanbox games to have fun) is something similar to what MUD(s)/MUSH'S do where you have a background history to the environment with thousands upon thousands of story HOOKS and constant events for the players to take and riff off of and create thier own narratives and stories (as many or few as they like) and the ability to meaningfully change the environment..... and then frankly they start creating thier own origional storie(s) and hooks and narritives for others..... and then as Developer you may take those and work them into other new events you introduce.... it's a sort of feedback loop. One in which "Quests" probably don't even make much sense as a mechanism.

As a Developer your role is to create a world and a background and a toolset for the players to play in.....and then occasionaly introduce "happenings" that are beyond the players abilities to mechanicaly introduce or origionate outside thier sphere of influence to "stir the pot" and add flavor and keep things fresh for the players to riff off of and work with.