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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » Its not an MMO

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56 posts found
  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8548

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  3/23/13 5:27:28 AM#1

It feels more like a Diablo clone, or GW1 and DDO, its instanced, its online, but not an MMO since there are no real open zones.

 

There are many games like this, it does not necessarily make them bad games, but it does not make them MMOs either, can we have a sepperate name for these online rpgs or action rpgs.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online and Wildstar

  Shana77

Elite Member

Joined: 5/24/07
Posts: 182

3/23/13 5:30:24 AM#2
You are wrong at early levels it feels instanced but it quickly opens up with more and more large outdoor areas full of questers as you progress. They should have perhaps included such a zone in the beginning so not to scare away the people who form an opinion after 30 minutes of play. 
  Hiron

Novice Member

Joined: 3/11/13
Posts: 49

3/23/13 5:52:59 AM#3
Its a mix of both. You cant enter a map if you dont have a mainquest which leads to it. But once unlocked its like any other open world map.  Thus you cant explore/enter other maps freely.. You unlock a map when the mainquest needs you to be on that particular map. Personally Im ok with this, barely.
  moosecatlol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/25/10
Posts: 1169

3/23/13 6:04:58 AM#4
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

It feels more like a Diablo clone, or GW1 and DDO, its instanced, its online, but not an MMO since there are no real open zones.

 

There are many games like this, it does not necessarily make them bad games, but it does not make them MMOs either, can we have a sepperate name for these online rpgs or action rpgs.

I think you need to consider what instancing is.

Is instancing the limitation of the amount of players in any one zone? Couldn't be, that would mean TERA, Guild Wars 2, and Defiance would fall into the category of "NOT OPEN-WORLD".

Maybe it's Open-world that's more the defining term of this post? Is open world the ability to travel from "Zone" to "Zone" without loading? Well those same games also suffer from the inability to travel from "Zone" to "Zone" without loading.

Could it be the size of each area?

Is it the amount of players allowed in each area?

People keep using that word "Instanced" as if  there ever was an alternative that removed it from a game. Even World of Warcraft had instances, they simply had a fantastic engine that allowed the preloading of relevant zones. In fact one might say that this was WoW's greatest achievement especially considering how flight paths worked, though knowing this you can probably figure out that the early WoW flight paths were specifically scenic for the purpose of working the current technological limitations, and as those limitations were lifted flight paths were able to be more direct in their routes.

Every single online game has instancing, it's simply how the developers handle the instancing that makes the difference.

I'd say the closest thing you're going to get to not having instancing is Minecraft, but in reality The End and The Nether are both seperate instance from the Overworld.

 

Personally I enjoy the 5-10-15-25 player maps that separated and limited in order to insure that zerging doesn't occur. I also enjoy that I'm able to freely navigate between instances at will, something I oh so desire from Guild Wars2. Then again I guess that's because in Guild Wars 2, I find that players often fall into one of two categories out in the world, "Warm bodies" or "Pain the Ass". They're mostly Warm bodies when dealing with non-failstate events, but when it comes to any of the temple events, you can be sure that if there is a way to fail, they'll find it.

 

Also I'm pretty sure that it was either MikeB or another community manager simply defined an mmo to be 500 players on a server. Though this was easily 3+ years ago. Good luck dredging that one up.

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2666

3/23/13 6:08:08 AM#5
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

It feels more like a Diablo clone, or GW1 and DDO, its instanced, its online, but not an MMO since there are no real open zones.

 

There are many games like this, it does not necessarily make them bad games, but it does not make them MMOs either, can we have a sepperate name for these online rpgs or action rpgs.

GW1 and DDO are actually MMORPGs, the instancing doesn't matter as long as there are hub areas where you can meet up with people and talk freely using your in-game avatars. Path of Exile is a game you can credibly call MP but not MMO because the hub areas are themselves instanced and most interactions between players is limited to chat. Know the difference between the two please.

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8548

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  3/23/13 7:51:02 AM#6
Originally posted by moosecatlol
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

It feels more like a Diablo clone, or GW1 and DDO, its instanced, its online, but not an MMO since there are no real open zones.

 

There are many games like this, it does not necessarily make them bad games, but it does not make them MMOs either, can we have a sepperate name for these online rpgs or action rpgs.

I think you need to consider what instancing is.

Is instancing the limitation of the amount of players in any one zone? Couldn't be, that would mean TERA, Guild Wars 2, and Defiance would fall into the category of "NOT OPEN-WORLD".

Maybe it's Open-world that's more the defining term of this post? Is open world the ability to travel from "Zone" to "Zone" without loading? Well those same games also suffer from the inability to travel from "Zone" to "Zone" without loading.

Could it be the size of each area?

Is it the amount of players allowed in each area?

People keep using that word "Instanced" as if  there ever was an alternative that removed it from a game. Even World of Warcraft had instances, they simply had a fantastic engine that allowed the preloading of relevant zones. In fact one might say that this was WoW's greatest achievement especially considering how flight paths worked, though knowing this you can probably figure out that the early WoW flight paths were specifically scenic for the purpose of working the current technological limitations, and as those limitations were lifted flight paths were able to be more direct in their routes.

Every single online game has instancing, it's simply how the developers handle the instancing that makes the difference.

I'd say the closest thing you're going to get to not having instancing is Minecraft, but in reality The End and The Nether are both seperate instance from the Overworld.

 

Personally I enjoy the 5-10-15-25 player maps that separated and limited in order to insure that zerging doesn't occur. I also enjoy that I'm able to freely navigate between instances at will, something I oh so desire from Guild Wars2. Then again I guess that's because in Guild Wars 2, I find that players often fall into one of two categories out in the world, "Warm bodies" or "Pain the Ass". They're mostly Warm bodies when dealing with non-failstate events, but when it comes to any of the temple events, you can be sure that if there is a way to fail, they'll find it.

 

Also I'm pretty sure that it was either MikeB or another community manager simply defined an mmo to be 500 players on a server. Though this was easily 3+ years ago. Good luck dredging that one up.

Dotn bring on this discussion again, as you know exactly what i meant...

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online and Wildstar

  Thane

Elite Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1802

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

3/23/13 7:52:57 AM#7
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

It feels more like a Diablo clone, or GW1 and DDO, its instanced, its online, but not an MMO since there are no real open zones.

 

There are many games like this, it does not necessarily make them bad games, but it does not make them MMOs either, can we have a sepperate name for these online rpgs or action rpgs.

worst argument ever. thx for the laugh tho.

they are still mmos even tho they instance their maps.

 

 

 

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  Margrave

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 481

3/23/13 8:13:33 AM#8
I love Neverwinter. Many others do. If you don't sorry, but I'm going to keep playing this awesome free to play title. Remember how much it cost you..... nothing.
  Golelorn

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/03
Posts: 1056

3/23/13 8:26:02 AM#9
DDO is not an MMO? Um, thanks for the input, but your guidelines on what a MMO is does not jive with me.
  Eladi

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/06
Posts: 1047

3/23/13 8:26:35 AM#10
like all other crypic games that use this engine there will -never- ever be more then 100 people in the same map..well at best 110 due to lag overflow.  is it a mmo , sure it is, but is a small scale one and will never be able to go beyond that due to engine restrictions , neverwinter will also never get realy better then it is. they already pushed that engine to its current limmets were dx10/11 is barely suported. but again it is a mmo.. of low quality if you ask me but eh, each their own taste..
  Doogiehowser

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1939

3/23/13 8:27:43 AM#11
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

It feels more like a Diablo clone, or GW1 and DDO, its instanced, its online, but not an MMO since there are no real open zones.

 

There are many games like this, it does not necessarily make them bad games, but it does not make them MMOs either, can we have a sepperate name for these online rpgs or action rpgs.

Wrong..there are open zones in game.

But then again it is a dungeon crawler so don't know what you expect.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
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  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8548

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  3/23/13 8:37:16 AM#12
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

It feels more like a Diablo clone, or GW1 and DDO, its instanced, its online, but not an MMO since there are no real open zones.

 

There are many games like this, it does not necessarily make them bad games, but it does not make them MMOs either, can we have a sepperate name for these online rpgs or action rpgs.

Wrong..there are open zones in game.

But then again it is a dungeon crawler so don't know what you expect.

Its not that the game is not what i expected, or it isnt fun. As it is exactly what one might expect from an action based dungeon crawler.

 

But labeling it as an MMO,  will harm the game more then calling it a multi player dungeoncrawler.  

 

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online and Wildstar

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2666

3/23/13 8:41:02 AM#13
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

It feels more like a Diablo clone, or GW1 and DDO, its instanced, its online, but not an MMO since there are no real open zones.

 

There are many games like this, it does not necessarily make them bad games, but it does not make them MMOs either, can we have a sepperate name for these online rpgs or action rpgs.

Wrong..there are open zones in game.

But then again it is a dungeon crawler so don't know what you expect.

Its not that the game is not what i expected, or it isnt fun. As it is exactly what one might expect from an action based dungeon crawler.

 

But labeling it as an MMO,  will harm the game more then calling it a multi player dungeoncrawler.  

 

Then if we call NWO a multiplayer game then we can call all themepark MMOs multiplayer games and not MMOs ;).

  Killsmallchi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/26/08
Posts: 279

Don't be simple

3/23/13 8:43:26 AM#14
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

It feels more like a Diablo clone, or GW1 and DDO, its instanced, its online, but not an MMO since there are no real open zones.

 

There are many games like this, it does not necessarily make them bad games, but it does not make them MMOs either, can we have a sepperate name for these online rpgs or action rpgs.

GW1 and DDO are actually MMORPGs, the instancing doesn't matter as long as there are hub areas where you can meet up with people and talk freely using your in-game avatars. Path of Exile is a game you can credibly call MP but not MMO because the hub areas are themselves instanced and most interactions between players is limited to chat. Know the difference between the two please.

NW's hub is instanced too. It is not made obvious but unless you are on a team with someone chances are they are in a different instance then you. This would mean by your definition NW is not an MMO.

I would call it a mMMO or a mini massive multiplayer online game because I enjoy oximorons. 

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8548

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  3/23/13 8:51:47 AM#15
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

It feels more like a Diablo clone, or GW1 and DDO, its instanced, its online, but not an MMO since there are no real open zones.

 

There are many games like this, it does not necessarily make them bad games, but it does not make them MMOs either, can we have a sepperate name for these online rpgs or action rpgs.

Wrong..there are open zones in game.

But then again it is a dungeon crawler so don't know what you expect.

Its not that the game is not what i expected, or it isnt fun. As it is exactly what one might expect from an action based dungeon crawler.

 

But labeling it as an MMO,  will harm the game more then calling it a multi player dungeoncrawler.  

 

Then if we call NWO a multiplayer game then we can call all themepark MMOs multiplayer games and not MMOs ;).

This discussion was held long ago, where a game very close to what we now see in Neverwinter was specifically not called an MMORPG by its developers but an CORPG, stands for Cooperative Online RPG, because there are no massive zones in these games. 

 

 

Does anyone remember what game i am talking about?

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online and Wildstar

  HorrorScope

Novice Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 612

3/23/13 9:08:30 AM#16

Aren't most mmo's today instanced? So we have shades now of open-worldliness.

DDO it makes perfect sense and works out great. You run DnD modules with groups. Just like how dad use to.

What is right, it is 3D Diablo.

 

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/23/13 9:10:26 AM#17
aside from the dungeons most areas you quest in you are not in your own instance you see people all around.. as you get higher you will get to more much larger areas.. You don't have the huge open world feel of games like wow and such but its hardly a lobby game like gw1 or vindictous where you never seen anyone else unless you are in a party with them or in town.. Yes its a dungeon crawler at heart though but i'd still consider this a MMO

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  Filbur

Novice Member

Joined: 12/25/10
Posts: 69

3/23/13 9:58:32 AM#18
Originally posted by Aerowyn
aside from the dungeons most areas you quest in you are not in your own instance you see people all around.. as you get higher you will get to more much larger areas.. You don't have the huge open world feel of games like wow and such but its hardly a lobby game like gw1 or vindictous where you never seen anyone else unless you are in a party with them or in town.. Yes its a dungeon crawler at heart though but i'd still consider this a MMO

30 or 40 players in one instanced zone. That's not massively, if you ask me.

  Thane

Elite Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1802

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

3/23/13 10:04:54 AM#19
Originally posted by HorrorScope

Aren't most mmo's today instanced? So we have shades now of open-worldliness.

DDO it makes perfect sense and works out great. You run DnD modules with groups. Just like how dad use to.

What is right, it is 3D Diablo.

diablo is a linear farming game without too much evolving end content. that's what made it great.

it's "end content" is repeatable because it's randomized.

 

you start on normal, go to the next lvl, do the same again and again till you reached the highest grade.

that's why diablo is no mmo in the traditional sense, and that's why neverwinter is not like diablo.

you also have no "3d lobby" as in mmos (main cities) in diablo.

 

there are plenty of difference and people tried to pull this off before.

 

would you say age of conan is a diablo like game? or the secret world?

they use instances too.

 

doesn't put em in the same category tho. 

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  Allacore69

Elite Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 878

3/23/13 10:07:38 AM#20

I got lost in Pirates Skyhold. then again I don't use my glow line. Took me 20 min to get back to Protectors Enclave.

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