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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why newer MMOs have not had the success WoW has had since WoW's release

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101 posts found
  nilden

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 923

3/22/13 8:25:07 PM#21
Originally posted by Prepared

It's about including everything WoW has, but adding more.  Not better because better is a matter of opinion.  If the game doesn't have everything that WoW has, but is "better" it won't beat WoW.

It's all about opinion. Better is subjective to personal taste. If millions of people play it over anything else it is better by public opinion. If a game has everything WoW has it's just going to be a copy with more that doesn't make it better. You don't need to have every feature WoW has to make a better game.

How to post links.
LoveMinecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20139

3/22/13 8:34:27 PM#22

WOW has a large percentage of all the good features of MMOs .... so it is hard to beat it.

But, there are plenty of online games with MMO features or similar gameplay that has the same kind of success.

D3 - hack & slash dungeons .. 12M box sold . that is the number at the highest point of wow sub.

LOL - arena type pvp .. MORE active users than WOW

 

  iixviiiix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 541

3/22/13 9:07:36 PM#23

Tera combat system are interest but it not "unique" enough to make it success game.

They just use old system of [?] and [!] then add new combat system. Of couse it don't success.

Tera content don't revolve around combat system.

Combat system just a little salt add in the meal .

They (tera developers) chose safe ways with [?] and [!] ,because of it they lost change to success.

 

It just my personal though

If  tera's content revolved around combat system , it should be heavy combat grind game.

No instance or mob drop gears only marterial. And they don't drop gold.

Every gear come from crafting. Only sell bandages , all potions come from gatherers

Quest don't give exp , they give gold and fame. They are main source of gold if you get enough fame , you can change it to specal marterial from NPC

30 + man raid BAM.

Weekly castle siege

Guild owned over instances system , fight over marterial source.

...ect...

Use all system that can make they sell point combat system shine

And they (tera developers) should stop being haunted by shadow of  [?] and [!] system , they don't mix well with heavy combat game like Tera

 

Though we can't blame developer for chosed easy way , but if they make a big game , they should be more brave and step for diffrence ways . If they don't , they will just be crushed by they own weight.

 

  slickbizzle

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/28/11
Posts: 454

3/22/13 9:22:09 PM#24
Originally posted by Prepared

 

Some examples of how games released in recent years could have been the new king:

 

 

 

 

Who says one of the new (or old) MMO's isn't the king?    Last I read, PWI had over 20 million players worldwide.  GW2 beat out MoP in sales.  Tera is starting to gain steam.  LotRo has more NA/EU players than Warcraft.

 

 

  Prepared

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/11/13
Posts: 89

 
OP  3/23/13 1:31:53 AM#25
Originally posted by slickbizzle
Originally posted by Prepared

 

Some examples of how games released in recent years could have been the new king:

 

 

 

 

Who says one of the new (or old) MMO's isn't the king?    Last I read, PWI had over 20 million players worldwide.  GW2 beat out MoP in sales.  Tera is starting to gain steam.  LotRo has more NA/EU players than Warcraft.

 

 

 

Where do you get your information?  PWI?  Perfect World?  It has 9 servers in the world.  Source of this information is from http://pwi.perfectworld.com/status

So you're saying the game has over 1 million players on each of those servers?  I don't think so.

GW2 sold just over 3 million copies.  WoW has about 9 million something subscribers from the last I'd seen.  Almost all of those are playing MoP.  Tera may be gaining recently since it went free to play, but it's still only got a few servers running.  Guild Wars 2 has 24 servers in the United States and 27 in Europe according to their web site http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World

Lotro has 14 servers running.  Source of this information is here: http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Category:Live_Servers

How many servers are currently in operation for WoW?   WoW has 241 servers for the United States and Europe has 263 servers.  Source of information: http://www.wowwiki.com/Realm 

This information provides current server numbers only, not subscriber base nor actual players.  But I'd venture to say WoW is far superior in terms of how many players are playing their game versus the others you've mentioned.  Another way to view player interest is to go to twitch.tv and see how many people are viewing others that play the games.  League of Legends usually reigns supreme there, but it's not an MMORPG ( Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game ).

 

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1855

3/23/13 5:01:01 AM#26

WoW caters to everyone, it's the McDonalds of game design, it opened up MMO to the mass audience of casuals.

  acidblood

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/13/06
Posts: 245

3/23/13 5:32:00 AM#27

So then WildStar will finally be the WoW killer?

  • It has a similar art style.
  • It has the same (or better) sense of not being too serious.
  • It appears to have a similarly varied and interesting world (size is still unknown...)
  • It has fluid and intuitive combat; easy to learn, hard to master.
  • It has PvP servers (though no explicit open world objectives), Battlegrounds, Arenas and Warplots to boot
  • It has all sorts of PvE 'layered content' from traditional quests to dynamic events
  • It has awesome player housing, so big plus on WoW there
  • It has UI mods; built from the ground up to support them and make them easy to create
  • It has 20 and 40 man raids
  • It has 5 man instances
  • It has mounts
  • It uses the trinity, but also offers a good range of play styles per class
  • It has, well a bunch of other stuff I'm probably forgetting or don't know about yet
In short, WildStar looks like a new and in most cases much improved version of WoW.. so will it kill WoW? I doubt it, as while I agree with the op (the 'next WoW' must include everything WoW has and more), there are two things any new MMO can not include that WoW has.. the players characters and the timing of it's launch.
  Siveria

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 1168

3/23/13 5:42:16 AM#28

Its rather simple, Most of these mmo's pretty much just copy and paste wow, and throw a new skin over it, without doing anything unique on their own or even attempting to. People who quit wow, don't want to go to another mmorpg that bascally plays the exact same way as the game they just quit, so they lose interest fast. Its why most of them are ghost towns after a month or so after release. There is also the fact that leveling is way to fast, IMO it should take a hardcore player 3 weeks minimum to level a char to cap, and for non-hardcore mutiple months. Most mmo's today you can hit the level cap in 2-3 days, then all the game has to offer is raiding. Now the problem here is most of these games that have raiding, put in nothing to use the raid gear for.

Lets look at EQ2 a game that IMO did it right. You raid for gear, then you can take said raid gear into pvp or virtually any other activity, you can mentor down to do dungeons you missed for more Alternate Advancement points (this is another thing more games need, a way to progress besides items at lv cap) Eq2 also has a massive amount of content, though this is mostly because its been around for so long, but even without all the xpac's I am pretty sure there is more to do in the base game of eq2 than in most mmo's to date comparativly.

Anyway to put it simply, players are just getting sick of every mmorpg feeling/being the exact same, with the same repetive endgame, and the same leveling progression and such. The secret world tried to change it, but it ends up the same thing, boring repetive kill this, fetch that quests from start to finish, then same pointless raiding with no real use for the gear anymore.

When Tera released alot of people thought it was a good game, that is until the newness of the diffrent combat engine wore off and they relized the game is bascally a reskined wow behind it, with nothing really diffrent. Most of the mmo's since wow's release fell prey to this same thing. That is why they don't do that good. WoW also had the warcraft fanboys to draw on as well.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  Siveria

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 1168

3/23/13 5:44:31 AM#29
Originally posted by acidblood

So then WildStar will finally be the WoW killer?

  • It has a similar art style.
  • It has the same (or better) sense of not being too serious.
  • It appears to have a similarly varied and interesting world (size is still unknown...)
  • It has fluid and intuitive combat; easy to learn, hard to master.
  • It has PvP servers (though no explicit open world objectives), Battlegrounds, Arenas and Warplots to boot
  • It has all sorts of PvE 'layered content' from traditional quests to dynamic events
  • It has awesome player housing, so big plus on WoW there
  • It has UI mods; built from the ground up to support them and make them easy to create
  • It has 20 and 40 man raids
  • It has 5 man instances
  • It has mounts
  • It uses the trinity, but also offers a good range of play styles per class
  • It has, well a bunch of other stuff I'm probably forgetting or don't know about yet
In short, WildStar looks like a new and in most cases much improved version of WoW.. so will it kill WoW? I doubt it, as while I agree with the op (the 'next WoW' must include everything WoW has and more), there are two things any new MMO can not include that WoW has.. the players characters and the timing of it's launch.

I doubt it, the game is just yet another wow-clone in a diffrent skin, don't even try to say it isin't. even the combat is the exact same generic 1,2,3,4 crap. For a game to be a wow killer, it can't just be a copy of wow in a new skin, it doesn't work that way, and lets be honest, I dislike wow, but I highly doubt any other subbed based mmorpg is every going to come near wow's subscriber numbers, they should just be content on getting enough to make the game profitable, which really doesn't need more than 100-200k subs to do this. Some can get by with even less.

 

It will also probally fuck up on pvp as well by making seperate pvp gear insted of making everyone get the pvp gear the same way (via raids) Mostly done by adding some magical extra unneeded stat to the gear. Castering to the pvp crowd is pretty stupid as a whole when they are a extremly small minority, and you ruin the game for your much bigger pve crowd by doing this. Bascally they need to merge the 2 playstyles, so you can do both with 1 gear set, insted of having to grind for a pvp set. DAoC was great in the respect that everyone got the gear for pvp and pve the same way, so they could do either at anytime, since the best gear (least before u could make your own magical items) was from raids, NO ONE complained about it.  Also pvp in a pve based mmo is just added on usually and not a focus at all.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  WW4BW

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/03/06
Posts: 492

3/23/13 5:47:05 AM#30
Originally posted by acidblood

So then WildStar will finally be the WoW killer?

  • It has a similar art style.
  • It has the same (or better) sense of not being too serious.
  • It appears to have a similarly varied and interesting world (size is still unknown...)
  • It has fluid and intuitive combat; easy to learn, hard to master.
  • It has PvP servers (though no explicit open world objectives), Battlegrounds, Arenas and Warplots to boot
  • It has all sorts of PvE 'layered content' from traditional quests to dynamic events
  • It has awesome player housing, so big plus on WoW there
  • It has UI mods; built from the ground up to support them and make them easy to create
  • It has 20 and 40 man raids
  • It has 5 man instances
  • It has mounts
  • It uses the trinity, but also offers a good range of play styles per class
  • It has, well a bunch of other stuff I'm probably forgetting or don't know about yet
In short, WildStar looks like a new and in most cases much improved version of WoW.. so will it kill WoW? I doubt it, as while I agree with the op (the 'next WoW' must include everything WoW has and more), there are two things any new MMO can not include that WoW has.. the players characters and the timing of it's launch.

All of that is exactly why it wont be a WoW killer. Even if it turns out to be better than WoW it lacks the IP familiarity and it isnt different enough to open up a whole new demographic.. So it will neither steal all of the players from WoW nor will it eclipse it with millions of fresh players. 

  dlld

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/31/08
Posts: 517

3/23/13 5:47:22 AM#31

GW2 is probably the closest thing to a wow killer there will be, how so? Some numbers:

Cataclysm First month sales 4,7 million

MoP First week (more or less the same as first month really, how many buys an expansion 3 weeks after launch unless they are hurting for cash?) sales 2,7 million

GW2 which launced about a month before MoP 2 million sales somewhere within the first month.

Notice something? lol

 

  Siveria

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 1168

3/23/13 5:49:31 AM#32
Originally posted by dlld

GW2 is probably the closest thing to a wow killer there will be, how so? Some numbers:

Cataclysm First month sales 4,7 million

MoP First week (more or less the same as first month really, how many buys an expansion 3 weeks after launch unless they are hurting for cash?) sales 2,7 million

GW2 which launced about a month before MoP 2 million sales somewhere within the first month.

Notice something? lol

 

GW2 does not count since its not a subscription based game, you cannot compare the 2 really.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  saphon7k4

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/06
Posts: 1

3/23/13 6:07:51 AM#33

Have you never heard of ArcheAge? It does everything have.

ArcheAge inspires me more than Elders Scroll Online and WildStars.

  Sk1ppeR

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/12
Posts: 534

3/23/13 6:30:31 AM#34

So I see you all bitch and moan about WoW's success being on the open world pvp well let me tell you this.

Most of you probably don't know about a game called "Lineage 2". Now, it had open world pvp, so open that you could be killed in the starting zones. It had hell of a lot better graphics than WoW, epic raids that needed somewhere 40 to unlimited player count. It launched at the same time WoW did. It also offered castle sieges which was sick. I was playing since beta and I had a blast and I never understood why people go for WoW, and obviously its not the features, I think it was that the game fed its players with a spoon. It was a carebear club. Nothing more nothing less.

These days I find myself playing GW2 and TSW because they're less time-intensive and awesome. And I hope you get my point and stop repeating the same nonsense all over. 

PS: Ever seen a tank running around killing people with a bow or dagger in WoW? That was possible in Lineage though xD

It's just pitty that lately NCSoft are trying to axe the game, yet people do not yet leave

  Novusod

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/30/09
Posts: 872

3/23/13 7:31:19 AM#35
Originally posted by Yukmarc
WoW is the Walmart and McDonalds of MMO's.

THIS ^

 

Top chefs don't try to compete with McDonalds. Retailers don't want to compete with Walmart either. They move up scale and serve the niches of people who wouldn't be caught dead in a Walmart ot McDonalds.

 

Remember when Apple computer almost went out of business trying to compete with Microsoft in the late 90s. The G4 and G5 macs were technologically superior to PCs in every way but somehow they just could not compete with Microsoft. Apple only survived by NOT competing and selling to a different market. It started with the iPOD and then the iPHONE now over priced iPADS. Apple became the most valuable corporation in the world by NOT competing with Microsoft.

 

There is a lesson to be learned here. MMO devs need to do the same and create an upscale gaming market for those with refined tastes. There are a lot of people who don't want anything to do with WoW but are not being served with a quality product they are looking for.

  Oberholzer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/25/06
Posts: 501

3/23/13 7:53:12 AM#36
Originally posted by Novusod

 

There is a lesson to be learned here. MMO devs need to do the same and create an upscale gaming market for those with refined tastes. There are a lot of people who don't want anything to do with WoW but are not being served with a quality product they are looking for.

I agree with this! I just hope there are Devs in the end( and what I mean is upon release, not just blowing smoke about what will be in a game) that are smart enough not to chase the WoW numbers just make a quality game for people looking for something different. When you say upscale though I'm assuming you mean sub, fine with me but it seems these days so many players want everything free I would hope that doesn't scare Devs away from not making a game F2P.

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5693

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

3/23/13 7:53:18 AM#37
Originally posted by GreenHell
Originally posted by Deddpool
Shorter answer: wow players have no attention span and don't want to go anywhere else because of all the work and time they put into wow.

That really doesn't make any sense. They have no attention span but they had enough of a attention span to put  work in to WoW? Seems to me they have an attention span..maybe they just like WoW?

lol that guy must really hate everyone who plays wow. Dont give him a gun. Why the hell should i talk down to people that do things i dont like? that makes me a very stupid person, and ignorant. Im sure most WoW players have tried a lot of mmos after WoW and went back for the reasons everyone knows already.

  Golelorn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/23/03
Posts: 1090

3/23/13 8:09:41 AM#38

First off, another company can acheive the succes WoW had. Its short-sighted to say it can't happen again. The industry is growing. 

 

Secondly, WoW was so successful because it was not an EQ clone. Its vastly different. Every game that has come out is arguably a WoW clone. Nothing out there seperates itself from WoW. They are all shallow quest driven games where you  grind for gear. Once a AAA studio steps outside that box like WoW did in 2004 you will see success.

  Margrave

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 519

3/23/13 8:12:01 AM#39
The problem is they can never be your first experience again. For me that would be UO/EQ. They also can never make you younger. never.
  cheyane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2433

3/23/13 8:33:00 AM#40

I disagree with the op because I am not willing  to invest in another game like I invested in WoW. Many of us think we want to but in reality we do not we think we will invest our time, heart, energy and dedication to another game but the minute the spectre looms over us we begin to flounder and falter because we remember the actual effort it took. No then we find fault in the new game and after a few months we leave for another game and that goes on and on. I myself have flitted from game to game since Everquest.

 

I have only ever invested in three games. Everquest, FFXI, WoW and to an extent Everquest 2. I cannot find a single game right now that I am willing to invest in. I doubt it has anything to do with the game not being WoW and more but rather that I no longer desire to make such an investment.

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