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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Anyone knows how much money they had to make DAoC ?

18 posts found
  BowbowDAoC

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 482

 
OP  3/22/13 9:56:52 AM#1

I'm listening right now to an interview with MJ found at mmohuts.com (link to the interview) :

http://mmohuts.com/videos/exclusive-interview-mark-jacobs-co-founder-city-state-entertainment

and just found out that the budget for DAoC was $2.5 millions.

So to those who thinks that 5 millions budget for CU can bring this game very far !

So, double the amount, much more experience, many mistakes were done that MJ obviously will not repeat (mistakes is the best way learn so that is a good thing too), no publishers to listen to, less content (but way more depths to the content implemented)

This thought alone gives me even more hope toward CU, wich were already pretty high. Some will say that its too much hype at this point, i don't mind ! Someone many hundreds of years ago was anxious about proving that the earth was round, and kept going till he finally proved it :)

"dreaming" is part of evolution in anything :)

 

Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR

  Roguewiz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/01/02
Posts: 496

When a Kender says "oops!"; its already too late.

3/22/13 10:02:46 AM#2

Things have substantially changed since the release of  DAoC.  It generally take substantially more money than 2.5 million to make a decent game.  For the most part, on average, MMOs take 50 million to make a game.

http://www.quora.com/How-much-does-it-cost-to-develop-a-video-game#

\

 

 

I'm listening to the interview now, so I'll be able to hear what he had to say.

I be Raq, destroyer of game balance!
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Everquest, Hearthstone, League of Legends
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next, Everquest Next Landmark, Archeage

Trying to beat Dark Souls without using magic is like having a naked hot blond give you a root canal every day; painful and enjoyable at the same time.

  Rthuth434

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 367

3/22/13 10:05:27 AM#3
of course with some hindsight on the gameplay they're going to be re-using, half the game of the original(no PvE) and visual assests probably not too far advanced of course that's a realistic goal.
  BowbowDAoC

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 482

 
OP  3/22/13 10:08:49 AM#4


Originally posted by Roguewiz
Things have substantially changed since the release of  DAoC.  It generally take substantially more money than 2.5 million to make a decent game.  For the most part, on average, MMOs take 50 million to make a game.

http://www.quora.com/How-much-does-it-cost-to-develop-a-video-game#

\

 

 

I'm listening to the interview now, so I'll be able to hear what he had to say.



They spent lots of money on WoW i know, or many other mmos, doesnt make the games good :)
WAR had a bigger budget too, didnt like it either.
Thinking doesnt cost anything, creativity is free, So using your brain can get you pretty far without costing a dime at first :)

Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR

  Wazluk

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/13
Posts: 164

3/22/13 10:15:39 AM#5
Listened to it awhile ago(I think I'm all caught up on MJ video interviews).  Not sure why the interviewer felt the need to add fairly loud music over it...  it was kind of annoying.

Terminus
Legend Gaming Website | Join Us!
Wazluk - Legionnaire of Terminus
Draken Stalker

  MarkJacobs

CEO City State Entertainment

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 405

3/22/13 10:56:25 AM#6

We received $2.5M to create the game from Abandon Entertainment in exchange for a big piece of Mythic Entertainment.

Approximately $660K for total marketing budget including staffing, shows, deployment, etc. was from an additional loan from AE.

We also received a small guarantee based on projected sales from Vivendi Universal Games for distributing our game. How small you might ask? Well, their initial projections were that the game could sell around 40K units over time. We kinda blew through that number the first weekend. :)

There were also some equipment leases, maxed-out credit cards, etc.

Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment

  Wazluk

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/13
Posts: 164

3/22/13 11:04:02 AM#7
Originally posted by MarkJacobs

We received $2,5M to create the game from Abandon Entertainment in exchange for a big piece of Mythic Entertainment.

Approximately $660K for total marketing budget including staffing, shows, deployment, etc. was from an additional loan from AE.

We also received a small guarantee based on projected sales from Vivendi Universal Games for distributing our game. How small you might ask? Well, their initial projections were that the game could sell around 40K units over time. We kinda blew through that number the first weekend. :)

There were also some equipment leases, maxed-out credit cards, etc.

Who let you out of your KS tier building hole?

/grabs stick

Back! Back! Back to your spreadsheets!

Terminus
Legend Gaming Website | Join Us!
Wazluk - Legionnaire of Terminus
Draken Stalker

  Plastic-Metal

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 423

3/22/13 11:06:25 AM#8
Originally posted by MarkJacobs

We received $2,5M to create the game from Abandon Entertainment in exchange for a big piece of Mythic Entertainment.

Approximately $660K for total marketing budget including staffing, shows, deployment, etc. was from an additional loan from AE.

We also received a small guarantee based on projected sales from Vivendi Universal Games for distributing our game. How small you might ask? Well, their initial projections were that the game could sell around 40K units over time. We kinda blew through that number the first weekend. :)

There were also some equipment leases, maxed-out credit cards, etc.

^ Heard it from the man himself. BAM!

I was originally going to post the released statistics Mark gave in an interview way back when I had time to switch to the pc, but hearing it from the horse's mouth is always better :P

My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

  MarkJacobs

CEO City State Entertainment

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 405

3/22/13 11:13:23 AM#9

Originally posted by Wazluk

Originally posted by MarkJacobs

We received $2,5M to create the game from Abandon Entertainment in exchange for a big piece of Mythic Entertainment.

Approximately $660K for total marketing budget including staffing, shows, deployment, etc. was from an additional loan from AE.

We also received a small guarantee based on projected sales from Vivendi Universal Games for distributing our game. How small you might ask? Well, their initial projections were that the game could sell around 40K units over time. We kinda blew through that number the first weekend. :)

There were also some equipment leases, maxed-out credit cards, etc.

Who let you out of your KS tier building hole?

/grabs stick

Back! Back! Back to your spreadsheets!

Been working on our next mailing list update, should go up shortly. It's got a nice surprise (small but nice) for anyone who signs up.

Originally posted by Plastic-Metal

Originally posted by MarkJacobs

We received $2,5M to create the game from Abandon Entertainment in exchange for a big piece of Mythic Entertainment.

Approximately $660K for total marketing budget including staffing, shows, deployment, etc. was from an additional loan from AE.

We also received a small guarantee based on projected sales from Vivendi Universal Games for distributing our game. How small you might ask? Well, their initial projections were that the game could sell around 40K units over time. We kinda blew through that number the first weekend. :)

There were also some equipment leases, maxed-out credit cards, etc.

^ Heard it from the man himself. BAM!

I was originally going to post the released statistics Mark gave in an interview way back when I had time to switch to the pc, but hearing it from the horse's mouth is always better :P

Well, at least it didn't come out of the southern end of a north bound horse. :) 

<poof>

Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment

  Wazluk

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/13
Posts: 164

3/22/13 11:17:49 AM#10
Originally posted by MarkJacobs

Originally posted by Wazluk

Originally posted by MarkJacobs

We received $2,5M to create the game from Abandon Entertainment in exchange for a big piece of Mythic Entertainment.

Approximately $660K for total marketing budget including staffing, shows, deployment, etc. was from an additional loan from AE.

We also received a small guarantee based on projected sales from Vivendi Universal Games for distributing our game. How small you might ask? Well, their initial projections were that the game could sell around 40K units over time. We kinda blew through that number the first weekend. :)

There were also some equipment leases, maxed-out credit cards, etc.

Who let you out of your KS tier building hole?

/grabs stick

Back! Back! Back to your spreadsheets!

Been working on our next mailing list update, should go up shortly. It's got a nice surprise (small but nice) for anyone who signs up.


lol, small but nice...

Foundational Principle #13 - Size does NOT matter!

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Legend Gaming Website | Join Us!
Wazluk - Legionnaire of Terminus
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  Plastic-Metal

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 423

3/22/13 11:42:23 AM#11
Originally posted by Wazluk


lol, small but nice...

Foundational Principle #13 - Size does NOT matter!

Aw man.. IMO Wazluk deserves his own private character title, "<Size does NOT matter!>"

Eating lunch + reading something humorous = bad

My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

3/22/13 11:55:49 AM#12
Originally posted by BowbowDAoC

I'm listening right now to an interview with MJ found at mmohuts.com (link to the interview) :

http://mmohuts.com/videos/exclusive-interview-mark-jacobs-co-founder-city-state-entertainment

and just found out that the budget for DAoC was $2.5 millions.

So to those who thinks that 5 millions budget for CU can bring this game very far !

So, double the amount, much more experience, many mistakes were done that MJ obviously will not repeat (mistakes is the best way learn so that is a good thing too), no publishers to listen to, less content (but way more depths to the content implemented)

This thought alone gives me even more hope toward CU, wich were already pretty high. Some will say that its too much hype at this point, i don't mind ! Someone many hundreds of years ago was anxious about proving that the earth was round, and kept going till he finally proved it :)

"dreaming" is part of evolution in anything :)

 

Keep in mind the salaries were quite a bit less then, and it took a lot less to program art/graphics/animations and such.  Mark is going to be playing it smart by keeping the graphics down a bit though.  Yes, a game could be made for 5mil but a lot of corners will have to be cut and things will have to be kept towards the simple size so the development time doesnt kill the budget.

 

For other comparisons, EQ2 budget was about 25 mil and WoW was around 50-60.  TERA and Rift were both around 60 mill too.

 

SWTOR is kind of an anamoly with its ridiculously high numbers

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

3/22/13 11:58:31 AM#13
Im curious about development costs of a game like Ryzom, thats one of the only indie MMOs (besides EvE of course) that i found to be worth a damn.
  Plastic-Metal

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 423

3/22/13 12:24:25 PM#14
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by BowbowDAoC

I'm listening right now to an interview with MJ found at mmohuts.com (link to the interview) :

http://mmohuts.com/videos/exclusive-interview-mark-jacobs-co-founder-city-state-entertainment

and just found out that the budget for DAoC was $2.5 millions.

So to those who thinks that 5 millions budget for CU can bring this game very far !

So, double the amount, much more experience, many mistakes were done that MJ obviously will not repeat (mistakes is the best way learn so that is a good thing too), no publishers to listen to, less content (but way more depths to the content implemented)

This thought alone gives me even more hope toward CU, wich were already pretty high. Some will say that its too much hype at this point, i don't mind ! Someone many hundreds of years ago was anxious about proving that the earth was round, and kept going till he finally proved it :)

"dreaming" is part of evolution in anything :)

 

Keep in mind the salaries were quite a bit less then, and it took a lot less to program art/graphics/animations and such.  Mark is going to be playing it smart by keeping the graphics down a bit though.  Yes, a game could be made for 5mil but a lot of corners will have to be cut and things will have to be kept towards the simple size so the development time doesnt kill the budget.

 

For other comparisons, EQ2 budget was about 25 mil and WoW was around 50-60.  TERA and Rift were both around 60 mill too.

 

SWTOR is kind of an anamoly with its ridiculously high numbers

I dunno your background, back I know from experience that designing everything with modular design in mind can significantly cut the development time in half.  Although the static mesh may "feel" the same as another in a different realm, if the texture is different it won't necessarily look the same; especially hand painted textures.

It's sorta the same thing with models and animations.  A big difference between DAoC era and CU era is the ability to bake high polygon models into low polygon models.  Ahh.. I love to do 3d modeling.

IMO the biggest development period will be balancing and fluid programming.  A good artist with reference material can crank out assets like a mad man, especially if the art direction is solid.

My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

  Bordog

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/08
Posts: 34

3/22/13 2:12:08 PM#15
Originally posted by BowbowDAoC

I'm listening right now to an interview with MJ found at mmohuts.com (link to the interview) :

http://mmohuts.com/videos/exclusive-interview-mark-jacobs-co-founder-city-state-entertainment

and just found out that the budget for DAoC was $2.5 millions.

So to those who thinks that 5 millions budget for CU can bring this game very far !

So, double the amount, much more experience, many mistakes were done that MJ obviously will not repeat (mistakes is the best way learn so that is a good thing too), no publishers to listen to, less content (but way more depths to the content implemented)

This thought alone gives me even more hope toward CU, wich were already pretty high. Some will say that its too much hype at this point, i don't mind ! Someone many hundreds of years ago was anxious about proving that the earth was round, and kept going till he finally proved it :)

"dreaming" is part of evolution in anything :)

 

This interview was interesting and I'm so excited to play a dedicated crafter. I really hope Mark Jacobs and the CSE team can pull this off.

  gylnne

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/07
Posts: 324

3/22/13 7:44:54 PM#16
Just listened to the interview. Wow I never knew Mark had made so many games.
  Stiler

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 592

3/23/13 2:07:07 AM#17
Originally posted by Roguewiz

Things have substantially changed since the release of  DAoC.  It generally take substantially more money than 2.5 million to make a decent game.  For the most part, on average, MMOs take 50 million to make a game.

http://www.quora.com/How-much-does-it-cost-to-develop-a-video-game#

\

 

 

I'm listening to the interview now, so I'll be able to hear what he had to say.

You also have to take into account, a LOT of money is also devoted to PVE, the writing, design of npc's, models/animators for them, quest rewards, balancing, all of that money can now be used for RVR instead of putting it into PVE aspects, or simply having a lower budget to spend on the game as a whole and focusing on RVR with what money they get.

  Heartspark

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/13
Posts: 69

3/23/13 3:01:14 AM#18

Remember this, having no PvE makes for a HUGE savings in time/money.   I don't know the  numbers or even care to guess, maybe MarkJ knows, but PvE time savings could be year(s) of time saving in a MMO development.

 

If this game is Digital download only, another huge savings.  Especially since goals for customer base is not like most MMO now.

 

Another great thing ( at least to my knowledge) having a smaller team makes for easier communication about problems/changes/patches that can happen in a game.  They no longer have to worry about changing some spell/damage modifer/drop to conflict with pve mode.  DAOC have this "problem" with some pve weapons not being ideal for pvp, or pvp not having good pve stats (looking at you ToA).

 

The one problem i see in just a rvr game is that items truely need to be able to have unique stats.  One thing that ToA for example changed is it had Must have weapons/armor.  Brittle Guards for instance, if you did not have those as a caster you might as well camp a tower all night. :P  I do not want to see one class all require one set of armor, or one weapon.  Makes for boring charactors.  I'm sure they know this of course, but its crucial you don't have "epic" armor that everyone needs, etc.

Heartspark: Animist rr12, bors, Lone Enforcer, Retired

Dranzerk: Berzerker (kay) retired
Dhei: Spiritmaster (Kay) retired
Goblinking : Hunter (Kay) retired
Moongoose: Shadowblade (Kay) retired