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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » GW2, Defiance and the paradigm shift.

18 posts found
  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

 
OP  3/22/13 7:58:35 AM#1

Good morning all! Today I'll be giving the Defiance beta a try... nothing like a little FPS style game to serve as a change of pace on occasion. An MMOFPS... that's all the more intruiging. But that's not the point of this thread... what caught my eye with Defiance is the fact that they're doing a lot of things similar to Guild Wars 2. With my limited knowledge of Defiance here's what I noticed right away...

 

Dynamic Events. Yes, Trion did Rift (with Rifts), but it looks like they're going a little further this time with some events more like GW2 events, including being repeatable when they respawn.

Buy to Play. A little concerned with all the DLC planned atm, but if they can pull this off as well as GW2 with their cash shop it'll be good.

Flattened Leveling Curve. Yep, none of that logarythmic power increase of old, a flatter leveling curve to keep things more balanced, similar to GW2. 

Scaling Events. Very nice... the more people that show up to events the more difficult they become, like in GW2. 

Segregated PvP and PvE. No ganking noobs here folks, your PvP will be concentual. 

 

So, is this the beginning of a trend in the MMO market, a shift in the paradigm? Has GW2 shown that you can cast the WoW-style of MMO model aside and still be successful, and shown it well enough that other companies will continue to follow suit? Time will tell with Defiance, of course, but there does seem to be a disturbance in the force, and one that may persist for some time.

 

Edit: My apologies in advance for not mentioning ESO and the similarities there compared to GW2 as well. They look like another company willing to really embrace a new way of doing things and I wish them great success as well!

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Pie_Rat

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/05
Posts: 310

3/22/13 8:09:58 AM#2
Originally posted by Volkon

Good morning all! Today I'll be giving the Defiance beta a try... nothing like a little FPS style game to serve as a change of pace on occasion. An MMOFPS... that's all the more intruiging. But that's not the point of this thread... what caught my eye with Defiance is the fact that they're doing a lot of things similar to Guild Wars 2. With my limited knowledge of Defiance here's what I noticed right away...

 

Dynamic Events. Yes, Trion did Rift (with Rifts), but it looks like they're going a little further this time with some events more like GW2 events, including being repeatable when they respawn.

Buy to Play. A little concerned with all the DLC planned atm, but if they can pull this off as well as GW2 with their cash shop it'll be good.

Flattened Leveling Curve. Yep, none of that logarythmic power increase of old, a flatter leveling curve to keep things more balanced, similar to GW2. 

Scaling Events. Very nice... the more people that show up to events the more difficult they become, like in GW2. 

Segregated PvP and PvE. No ganking noobs here folks, your PvP will be concentual. 

 

So, is this the beginning of a trend in the MMO market, a shift in the paradigm? Has GW2 shown that you can cast the WoW-style of MMO model aside and still be successful, and shown it well enough that other companies will continue to follow suit? Time will tell with Defiance, of course, but there does seem to be a disturbance in the force, and one that may persist for some time.

I don't think it's a trend, I think it's Trion doing what they're best at: blatantly copying other games. First it was WoW, now GW2...

I know there's alot of idea stealing in entertainment and art in general but these guys go way over the top IMO.

Currently playing: Football Manager 2015.

Getting more kicks out of a single player sports RPG than any MMO on the market. A sad state of affairs indeed...

  Sagasaint

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/25/11
Posts: 474

I don't always play MMOs, but when I do, I play sandboxes

3/22/13 8:20:25 AM#3
Originally posted by Pie_Rat
Originally posted by Volkon

Good morning all! Today I'll be giving the Defiance beta a try... nothing like a little FPS style game to serve as a change of pace on occasion. An MMOFPS... that's all the more intruiging. But that's not the point of this thread... what caught my eye with Defiance is the fact that they're doing a lot of things similar to Guild Wars 2. With my limited knowledge of Defiance here's what I noticed right away...

 

Dynamic Events. Yes, Trion did Rift (with Rifts), but it looks like they're going a little further this time with some events more like GW2 events, including being repeatable when they respawn.

Buy to Play. A little concerned with all the DLC planned atm, but if they can pull this off as well as GW2 with their cash shop it'll be good.

Flattened Leveling Curve. Yep, none of that logarythmic power increase of old, a flatter leveling curve to keep things more balanced, similar to GW2. 

Scaling Events. Very nice... the more people that show up to events the more difficult they become, like in GW2. 

Segregated PvP and PvE. No ganking noobs here folks, your PvP will be concentual. 

 

So, is this the beginning of a trend in the MMO market, a shift in the paradigm? Has GW2 shown that you can cast the WoW-style of MMO model aside and still be successful, and shown it well enough that other companies will continue to follow suit? Time will tell with Defiance, of course, but there does seem to be a disturbance in the force, and one that may persist for some time.

I don't think it's a trend, I think it's Trion doing what they're best at: blatantly copying other games. First it was WoW, now GW2...

I know there's alot of idea stealing in entertainment and art in general but these guys go way over the top IMO.

uh?

Defiance is a MMOTPSRPG, of which there are...yep, only one other in the entire market, its still in beta and by the looks of it, its nowhere close to launch (FireFall)

Trion did events in Rift before GW2, so if anything GW2 copied Rift's model...

Also Defiance is the first game to try a tie-in with a TV show...we still have to see the full extend of that, but still, a first is a first

last but not least, Trion's other new game is a MMORTS, of which, once again, the market isnt exactly packed full unless you count facebook-esque browser based gimmicks

 

I can where your coming from, RIft is undeniably a WOW clone, but at least Trion is trying something different this time, which is more than 90% devs out there can say...be nice to Trion =P

  Scalpless

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1355

3/22/13 8:20:29 AM#4
Originally posted by Volkon

Dynamic Events. Yes, Trion did Rift (with Rifts), but it looks like they're going a little further this time with some events more like GW2 events, including being repeatable when they respawn.

Nope, unfortunately they're more similar to Rifts's events than GW2's. Defiance has plenty of traditional MMO quests, so the events seem more like an extra than the backbone of the leveling process they are in GW2.

The B2P model was likely influenced by GW2, but other than that I don't see the similarities. It's more like they're going for Borderlands: The MMO.

  xpowderx

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/09/05
Posts: 4311

Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. Richard Feynman, Nobel-prize-winning physicist

3/22/13 9:29:11 AM#5

I dont play GW2. But do plan on playing Defiance! I watched the hour long gameplay video of Defiance. It looks incredible! I also like the static encounters. Where you start out fighting one and more mobs move in!

Currently I play EQ. Talk about a popular game  these days. EQ(Everquest) is ROCKING pretty hard! Noobie zones with all kinds of new players. I also split my time with Dust514. Which is EVE onlines MMOFPS. I am very good with Dust currently. Many corps will not like having to face me or the team I play with.

I dont see a shift. Just a blend! Which is good in my view! Nothing wrong with the games out or coming which has a good mix! Also, I predict many mmorpgs will be crossplatform. Will PC users have a advantage. Only if they are a chinese farmer and the game allows macros!

 

Just a extra: GO LOUISVILLE!!!!!!!!!!!!

MUST WATCH: http://vimeo.com/105072944

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

3/22/13 9:37:51 AM#6

Shift? No.

Continuing a newer model? Yes.

Much like TESO and CU are trying to bring back the DaoC closed off RvR content and realms, other games like Archeage, Bless and Black Desert are trying to bring back a SWG/UO/AC1 style open world sandbox.

It will all come down to what games become the most popular and that will determine which the genre latches onto like leeches in the future in hopes to make a quick buck.

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

3/22/13 9:39:22 AM#7

Okay if you say so but do you realize not a single thing you mentioned is a first for GW2?  One was even a first for Rift the same company making Defiance, but I guess it just shows how short sighted people are when they want to make a point.

edit: Oh and I forgot to add, Defiance can just barely be clasified as an MMO, it really just supports and advaced version of multiplay.  So if your overall point is just that companys are making games they call MMO's that are actually less like MMO's and more like glorified mulitplayer games then I agree.  But no, its not a paradigm shift its called a new genre, there are still plenty of true MMO's in the pipe.

  Eir_S

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4707

GW2 socialist.

3/22/13 9:42:58 AM#8
Originally posted by snapfusion
Okay if you say so but do you realize not a single thing you mentioned is a first for GW2?  One was even a first for Rift the same company making Defiance, but I guess it just shows how short sighted people are when they want to make a point.

Which one was that?

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5725

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

3/22/13 9:43:53 AM#9

What gameplay footage I've seen from Defiance, the gameplay doesn't look particularly engaging. Sure there's shooting and moving, but thats about it. I saw very little usage of abilities, the players in the demos didn't even take cover, not once. They just ran in front of the enemies and sprayed them to death with generic assault rifles.

Much like Tabula Rasa had boring gameplay, Defiance may make the same mistake.

I'm not sold on the videos I've seen.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  xpowderx

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/09/05
Posts: 4311

Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. Richard Feynman, Nobel-prize-winning physicist

3/22/13 9:45:16 AM#10
Originally posted by snapfusion
Okay if you say so but do you realize not a single thing you mentioned is a first for GW2?  One was even a first for Rift the same company making Defiance, but I guess it just shows how short sighted people are when they want to make a point.

hehe :-) I likeTrion!

MUST WATCH: http://vimeo.com/105072944

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

3/22/13 9:52:48 AM#11
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by snapfusion
Okay if you say so but do you realize not a single thing you mentioned is a first for GW2?  One was even a first for Rift the same company making Defiance, but I guess it just shows how short sighted people are when they want to make a point.

Which one was that?

Rift was the first game to really offer true zone wide Dynamic events, world wide for that matter.  Gw2 doesnt even come close to the scale size of events that Rift pulls off, no game out there does.   GW2 events are more like Warhammer events,  I call those baby  dynamic questing events.

  Eir_S

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4707

GW2 socialist.

3/22/13 9:56:00 AM#12
Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by snapfusion
Okay if you say so but do you realize not a single thing you mentioned is a first for GW2?  One was even a first for Rift the same company making Defiance, but I guess it just shows how short sighted people are when they want to make a point.

Which one was that?

Rift was the first game to really offer true zone wide Dynamic events, world wide for that matter.  Gw2 doesnt even come close to the scale size of events that Rift pulls off, no game out there does.   GW2 events are more like Warhammer events,  I call those baby  dynamic questing events.

It doesn't matter what YOU call them.  Rift didn't do anything on the list "first".

  Xiaoki

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2521

3/22/13 12:45:25 PM#13

So, you're saying that all Buy to play games are now copying GW2?


You do realize that Defiance is mainly a home console game right? Where 99.99% of the games are Buy to play.


Next thing you know these GW2 fans are going to accuse Call of Duty of copying GW2 because its Buy to play and has weapon swapping.

  coretex666

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1839

"I shall take your position into consideration"

3/22/13 1:10:54 PM#14

You are trying to push something that simply isnt there.

GW 2 isnt changing anything. It is yet another themepark from the after WoW wave.

It is on the same level as rift, tera, tsw. Soon to be joined by neverwinter, teso, wildstar,...

What difference does it make that your quests are now dynamic? It is still the same level from 1 to max level in two weeks and do the rides. Not to mention this minor change wasnt even brought by GW 2.

GW 2 has not invented F2P (or B2P as some people refer to F2P with box price). There have always been games which could not justify subs, so they went with the less profitable option of F2P. If GW 2 was good enough to justify subs, it would be P2P because it is more profitable model for games which can attract and hold large playerbase.

Flattened levelling curve...you still get to max level in several weeks and then you join the rides. How innovative, industry changing is that...

Scaling events...ok, it is a little different than non scaling events, but it is a change you barely even notice in the game.

Segregated PvP and PVE is just a matter of subjective preference. It is not something GW 2 invented, so I do not see why it is even on your list.

GW 2 just continues the trend WoW started. Your "paradigm shifting" changes are so little and insignificant...

Dont worry, when a paradigm shifting game gets released, you will know it. We will all know it. We would not have to be making threads about it as it would be obvious.

No offense intended, but there is simply nothing revolutionary about your favorite game.

 

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6122

3/22/13 1:22:39 PM#15
Anet has definitely influenced the industry with B2P.  The other stuff maybe a little.  ANet has improved on the dynamic content and zone events that we saw previously in Rift, WAR, EQ2 and other games.  I think the popularity of that type of quest offering has influenced design.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6122

3/22/13 1:25:09 PM#16
Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by snapfusion
Okay if you say so but do you realize not a single thing you mentioned is a first for GW2?  One was even a first for Rift the same company making Defiance, but I guess it just shows how short sighted people are when they want to make a point.

Which one was that?

Rift was the first game to really offer true zone wide Dynamic events, world wide for that matter.  Gw2 doesnt even come close to the scale size of events that Rift pulls off, no game out there does.   GW2 events are more like Warhammer events,  I call those baby  dynamic questing events.

EQ2 had zone wide dynamic events years ago.  They didn't offered them 27/7 though.  They were only during special events.  The best one I think the was the Void event.  That was pretty sweet.

Curse you AquaScum!

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6241

3/22/13 1:27:45 PM#17
All it need is some WvW and I am set mother f***ers!!! Owning all in my wrath

  Laromuss

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/12
Posts: 331

3/22/13 1:41:43 PM#18
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by snapfusion
Okay if you say so but do you realize not a single thing you mentioned is a first for GW2?  One was even a first for Rift the same company making Defiance, but I guess it just shows how short sighted people are when they want to make a point.

Which one was that?

Rift was the first game to really offer true zone wide Dynamic events, world wide for that matter.  Gw2 doesnt even come close to the scale size of events that Rift pulls off, no game out there does.   GW2 events are more like Warhammer events,  I call those baby  dynamic questing events.

It doesn't matter what YOU call them.  Rift didn't do anything on the list "first".

not sure why there is even an argument, who cares who did what first.  Both are excellent systems within their own games.  One provides a bigger scale on a procedual level and is much harder to predict what happens,  the other provides a much more immersive scripted dynamic system.   What is crucial is that hopefully a developer will realize and pick up on the two systems and create one that can use both at a bigger, immersive and fully proceduarlly dynamic system.