Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Nanfoodle
I dont think the majority of the people in this thread know what a sandbox game is.

Actually, many of know what a sandbox style game is, we just don't agree on what that really means.

Sandbox is just that, a box you get to make it as a player or group of players into what you want the world to be. Same with your char, want to play a rake weilding, heavy plated warrior who has a wizards cap as a hat then you have a sandbox class system. If you have both you now have a real sandbox game. If content directs you in any way you are now playing a temepark game or a hybrid sandbox/themepark game. There has been very few real sandbox games. Now days at best, MMOs will add some sandbox elements. 

And that's the disagreeemnt. By your defitnion there is no such thing as a sandbox game. the content only allows for particular things to happen in the game, that is every game design. 

If folk stop beintg so adversarial, they'd realize they aren't arguying sandbox or themepark, there is no 100 percent either way. They are arguying the degree of sandbox and themepark. 

If I go back to the days of DND, you need a DM or someone to make the paths for the stories and the community. Surely any game could have had a "sandbox game" with no story. However, most games, particularly RPGs center on the story. It's primary. So it feels a bit wierd for so many to clamaro for a style of game in a genre that is built on the opposite of what you want. I"d almost like people to distinguish between if they want an MMO or if they want an MMORPG. Because of you want the RPG part, you need story and that means less sandbox.

That doesnt mean you can't have sandbox elements. Again, darkcloud was a great rpg, and it had some great sandbox items in it. 

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by SysFail

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by SysFail

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by SysFail

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by jfoytek

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by jfoytek

SWTOR at its peak has 1.7M subs its now below 1M over a 700K drop...  But yes thats still alot of subscriptions, minor problem the game costed over 400M to make meaning it hasnt turned a profit yet... and Runescapes 8.5M subscriptions at peak wont be touched by SWTOR anytime soon nor ever!

 

The $400 mil rumour is just that, a rumour. SWTOR probably still has about 1 mil subscribers, based on server loads and general activity. Each of those paying $15 a month.  That combined with the box sales and cash shop sales would have more than paid for the development costs by now.

SWG had less than 200k subscribers by the time they tried the NGE which everyone blames for the death of the game, but really the game was dying well before that.

Just face it, even the most popular sandbox - EVE - cannot compete with one of the most generic and bland themeparks - SWTOR.  Why would people throw money at that? When they can make something bland and generic with a good IP and get SWTOR numbers?

SWTOR is now free to play and they do not say if the remaining active subscriptions are paying so its very likely a large chunk of that remaining subscriber base is paying 0....  And no the 400M is not a rumor

And FYI it would take 1M Subs at 15 per month for 24 months to = 360M  So two years of Sub fee's at the 1M active sub level to break even

 1) It was a rumour. It has never been confirmed anywhere.

2) Most of the players are subscribing, the game is set up that way. If you don't subscribe at max level (which is still very active) then you end up paying more than a subscription.

3) They had about 2 mil to 1.7 mil subs for the first 6 months. Add the box fee on top. So yeah no.  

 

For the record, I don't play the game or have any interest in it. But if you think it is unprofitable you are incredibly delusional. Go log into the game, its free to look at how busy it is.

EA's shares took a 50% loss just after the release of SWTOR, coincidence or not?

 Shares are based on expectations. Not comparitive profit.

Just to chime in on this, although SWTOR flopped in the sense of coming nowhere near WoW, it does have more paying subscribers than EVE. Money is indeed with Themeparks. Rift is another example of a themepark (well made one at that) having more paying subs than EVE.

Eve has done remarkedly well for what it is, its freedom of choice is fantastic, but the spaceship instead of a toon is very niche indeed.

Take the same model that EvE uses, but apply it to a world with toons and i've no doubt it would be a phenomenal success.

No doubt has EVE done amaizingly well for what it is. The fact remains that although sanboxes are amaizing, they are indeed a niche market in the MMO world. If I was a developer betting my company on an MMO, I would go for what most people want to play, which is a themepark.

I really doubt it's the developers behind the current trend of recycling themeparks, but those that provide the funds. They want to see the numbers and of course the biggest is WoW, so that's what gets made, because they made the most.

It's especially true in the economic times we've found ourselves in, banks are very reluctant to fund something different and potentially risky, but most of us gamers know a well made sandbox will be very popular, providing funds for a long time after, not just for the first few months like a themepark does.

EVE is a well made themepark, and peaked at 500k subs. SWG was a themepark, and started dieing quickly after WoW was released, thus implemented the NGE.

Themeparks are good, but a niche market.

I'd be a happy bunny if that were true!

I bet developers go into work looking like hangovers, knowing they've a day ahead of them of re-creating the same old crap, instead of that dream they once had of making refreshing, exciting new, innovative games...

Originally posted by SysFail

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by SysFail

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by SysFail

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by SysFail

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by jfoytek

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by jfoytek

SWTOR at its peak has 1.7M subs its now below 1M over a 700K drop...  But yes thats still alot of subscriptions, minor problem the game costed over 400M to make meaning it hasnt turned a profit yet... and Runescapes 8.5M subscriptions at peak wont be touched by SWTOR anytime soon nor ever!

 

The $400 mil rumour is just that, a rumour. SWTOR probably still has about 1 mil subscribers, based on server loads and general activity. Each of those paying $15 a month.  That combined with the box sales and cash shop sales would have more than paid for the development costs by now.

SWG had less than 200k subscribers by the time they tried the NGE which everyone blames for the death of the game, but really the game was dying well before that.

Just face it, even the most popular sandbox - EVE - cannot compete with one of the most generic and bland themeparks - SWTOR.  Why would people throw money at that? When they can make something bland and generic with a good IP and get SWTOR numbers?

SWTOR is now free to play and they do not say if the remaining active subscriptions are paying so its very likely a large chunk of that remaining subscriber base is paying 0....  And no the 400M is not a rumor

And FYI it would take 1M Subs at 15 per month for 24 months to = 360M  So two years of Sub fee's at the 1M active sub level to break even

 1) It was a rumour. It has never been confirmed anywhere.

2) Most of the players are subscribing, the game is set up that way. If you don't subscribe at max level (which is still very active) then you end up paying more than a subscription.

3) They had about 2 mil to 1.7 mil subs for the first 6 months. Add the box fee on top. So yeah no.  

 

For the record, I don't play the game or have any interest in it. But if you think it is unprofitable you are incredibly delusional. Go log into the game, its free to look at how busy it is.

EA's shares took a 50% loss just after the release of SWTOR, coincidence or not?

 Shares are based on expectations. Not comparitive profit.

Just to chime in on this, although SWTOR flopped in the sense of coming nowhere near WoW, it does have more paying subscribers than EVE. Money is indeed with Themeparks. Rift is another example of a themepark (well made one at that) having more paying subs than EVE.

Eve has done remarkedly well for what it is, its freedom of choice is fantastic, but the spaceship instead of a toon is very niche indeed.

Take the same model that EvE uses, but apply it to a world with toons and i've no doubt it would be a phenomenal success.

No doubt has EVE done amaizingly well for what it is. The fact remains that although sanboxes are amaizing, they are indeed a niche market in the MMO world. If I was a developer betting my company on an MMO, I would go for what most people want to play, which is a themepark.

I really doubt it's the developers behind the current trend of recycling themeparks, but those that provide the funds. They want to see the numbers and of course the biggest is WoW, so that's what gets made, because they made the most.

It's especially true in the economic times we've found ourselves in, banks are very reluctant to fund something different and potentially risky, but most of us gamers know a well made sandbox will be very popular, providing funds for a long time after, not just for the first few months like a themepark does.

EVE is a well made themepark, and peaked at 500k subs. SWG was a themepark, and started dieing quickly after WoW was released, thus implemented the NGE.

Themeparks are good, but a niche market.

I'd be a happy bunny if that were true!

 

I bet developers go into work looking like hangovers, knowing they've a day ahead of them of re-creating the same old crap, instead of that dream they once had of making refreshing, exciting new, innovative games...

SWG..a game everyone on here holds up as the sandbox jesus...peaked at 300k subs, and started bleeding quickly after the first couple of well made themeparks got released. Why do you think that is?

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by jfoytek

And for the record I am not a PVP first player, I am a crafter....

 

There are 4 Types of players in MMO's PvPers, PvEers, Crafters, and Noobs!

PvPers are the black sheep of the MMO world they get crapped on regularly, its falsely believed they are this overwhelming minority group that plays MMO's when infact there not!!!  No they are waiting, playing single player games, playing silly games, playing everygame that gets released hoping for the return of Ultima Online or Shadowbane!!!

 

What they get is Darkfall and Mortal Online, small studio's who try hard but dont have the money to deliver!

 

Crafters like myself and also greatly upset with the state of the MMO world as most MMO's put crafting as an after thought!  We tend to play PvP titles more then PvE titles because PvP titles have a better economy, they die they need gear the economy isnt out of kilter like the PvE safe games the land of Carebears where the carebears never die have the greatest gear ever forever because they never risk it!

 

PvEers the mass's or so its thought, the kids generation Easy mode!  They get all the tops titles, good graphics etc....  They are the target audience  this group of players that play a few weeks and quit out of boredom, why again do companys cater to this huge ADD demographic when the more mature player base, the more loyal player base, the ones more likely to shell out the cash are NOT PvEers....

 

And then the noobs are of little consequence they loged on once to see what an MMO is and never log back on again! 

 

 

I don't know all the facts about the current state of gaming.  I see the trends and agree and disagree with some of them, but one thing I do know for a fact and that is that PvPers and Crafters are a minoirty. 

I seriously have been reading a lot of shit in these forums, but I just logged in just to reply you that you have just made the most false statement I've read in a while. I'm not even going to argue or discuss the matter and enlighten you of the 2013 market, but since your experience seems to be only few selected games, let me tell you. In 2013 PvP games are controlling the mmo market. There are more active players playing PvP games right now than any other games. Just because few games like shitfall etc are not successful or in your themepark mmorpgs PvPers are minority, doesn't mean that PvPers are the minority, it just means the game is unappealing or just trash. In terms of the mmo market, at this point, PvE is the minority. Sad truth which most of the people living in the past can't accept or see, because they don't play enough. I'm not doing a discussion anyway, just wanted to reply since that statement really blew my mind. (Has nothing to do with elder scrolls, just was replying to the individual)

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by SysFail

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by SysFail

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by SysFail

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by jfoytek

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by jfoytek

SWTOR at its peak has 1.7M subs its now below 1M over a 700K drop...  But yes thats still alot of subscriptions, minor problem the game costed over 400M to make meaning it hasnt turned a profit yet... and Runescapes 8.5M subscriptions at peak wont be touched by SWTOR anytime soon nor ever!

 

The $400 mil rumour is just that, a rumour. SWTOR probably still has about 1 mil subscribers, based on server loads and general activity. Each of those paying $15 a month.  That combined with the box sales and cash shop sales would have more than paid for the development costs by now.

SWG had less than 200k subscribers by the time they tried the NGE which everyone blames for the death of the game, but really the game was dying well before that.

Just face it, even the most popular sandbox - EVE - cannot compete with one of the most generic and bland themeparks - SWTOR.  Why would people throw money at that? When they can make something bland and generic with a good IP and get SWTOR numbers?

SWTOR is now free to play and they do not say if the remaining active subscriptions are paying so its very likely a large chunk of that remaining subscriber base is paying 0....  And no the 400M is not a rumor

And FYI it would take 1M Subs at 15 per month for 24 months to = 360M  So two years of Sub fee's at the 1M active sub level to break even

 1) It was a rumour. It has never been confirmed anywhere.

2) Most of the players are subscribing, the game is set up that way. If you don't subscribe at max level (which is still very active) then you end up paying more than a subscription.

3) They had about 2 mil to 1.7 mil subs for the first 6 months. Add the box fee on top. So yeah no.  

 

For the record, I don't play the game or have any interest in it. But if you think it is unprofitable you are incredibly delusional. Go log into the game, its free to look at how busy it is.

EA's shares took a 50% loss just after the release of SWTOR, coincidence or not?

 Shares are based on expectations. Not comparitive profit.

Just to chime in on this, although SWTOR flopped in the sense of coming nowhere near WoW, it does have more paying subscribers than EVE. Money is indeed with Themeparks. Rift is another example of a themepark (well made one at that) having more paying subs than EVE.

Eve has done remarkedly well for what it is, its freedom of choice is fantastic, but the spaceship instead of a toon is very niche indeed.

Take the same model that EvE uses, but apply it to a world with toons and i've no doubt it would be a phenomenal success.

No doubt has EVE done amaizingly well for what it is. The fact remains that although sanboxes are amaizing, they are indeed a niche market in the MMO world. If I was a developer betting my company on an MMO, I would go for what most people want to play, which is a themepark.

I really doubt it's the developers behind the current trend of recycling themeparks, but those that provide the funds. They want to see the numbers and of course the biggest is WoW, so that's what gets made, because they made the most.

It's especially true in the economic times we've found ourselves in, banks are very reluctant to fund something different and potentially risky, but most of us gamers know a well made sandbox will be very popular, providing funds for a long time after, not just for the first few months like a themepark does.

EVE is a well made themepark, and at its peak has 500k subs (lower than most "flopped themeparks"). SWG was a themepark, and started dieing quickly after WoW was released, thus implemented the NGE.

Themeparks are good, but a niche market.

Nice troll attempt :P

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Originally posted by gessekai332
themepark game = themepark lifespan. enjoy your game for the initial 2 months before it crashes like all the other themepark games out there.

---

every mmo will suffer from that short lifespan these days.

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by SysFail

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by SysFail

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by SysFail

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by SysFail

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by jfoytek

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by jfoytek

SWTOR at its peak has 1.7M subs its now below 1M over a 700K drop...  But yes thats still alot of subscriptions, minor problem the game costed over 400M to make meaning it hasnt turned a profit yet... and Runescapes 8.5M subscriptions at peak wont be touched by SWTOR anytime soon nor ever!

 

The $400 mil rumour is just that, a rumour. SWTOR probably still has about 1 mil subscribers, based on server loads and general activity. Each of those paying $15 a month.  That combined with the box sales and cash shop sales would have more than paid for the development costs by now.

SWG had less than 200k subscribers by the time they tried the NGE which everyone blames for the death of the game, but really the game was dying well before that.

Just face it, even the most popular sandbox - EVE - cannot compete with one of the most generic and bland themeparks - SWTOR.  Why would people throw money at that? When they can make something bland and generic with a good IP and get SWTOR numbers?

SWTOR is now free to play and they do not say if the remaining active subscriptions are paying so its very likely a large chunk of that remaining subscriber base is paying 0....  And no the 400M is not a rumor

And FYI it would take 1M Subs at 15 per month for 24 months to = 360M  So two years of Sub fee's at the 1M active sub level to break even

 1) It was a rumour. It has never been confirmed anywhere.

2) Most of the players are subscribing, the game is set up that way. If you don't subscribe at max level (which is still very active) then you end up paying more than a subscription.

3) They had about 2 mil to 1.7 mil subs for the first 6 months. Add the box fee on top. So yeah no.  

 

For the record, I don't play the game or have any interest in it. But if you think it is unprofitable you are incredibly delusional. Go log into the game, its free to look at how busy it is.

EA's shares took a 50% loss just after the release of SWTOR, coincidence or not?

 Shares are based on expectations. Not comparitive profit.

Just to chime in on this, although SWTOR flopped in the sense of coming nowhere near WoW, it does have more paying subscribers than EVE. Money is indeed with Themeparks. Rift is another example of a themepark (well made one at that) having more paying subs than EVE.

Eve has done remarkedly well for what it is, its freedom of choice is fantastic, but the spaceship instead of a toon is very niche indeed.

Take the same model that EvE uses, but apply it to a world with toons and i've no doubt it would be a phenomenal success.

No doubt has EVE done amaizingly well for what it is. The fact remains that although sanboxes are amaizing, they are indeed a niche market in the MMO world. If I was a developer betting my company on an MMO, I would go for what most people want to play, which is a themepark.

I really doubt it's the developers behind the current trend of recycling themeparks, but those that provide the funds. They want to see the numbers and of course the biggest is WoW, so that's what gets made, because they made the most.

It's especially true in the economic times we've found ourselves in, banks are very reluctant to fund something different and potentially risky, but most of us gamers know a well made sandbox will be very popular, providing funds for a long time after, not just for the first few months like a themepark does.

EVE is a well made themepark, and peaked at 500k subs. SWG was a themepark, and started dieing quickly after WoW was released, thus implemented the NGE.

Themeparks are good, but a niche market.

I'd be a happy bunny if that were true!

 

I bet developers go into work looking like hangovers, knowing they've a day ahead of them of re-creating the same old crap, instead of that dream they once had of making refreshing, exciting new, innovative games...

SWG..a game everyone on here holds up as the sandbox jesus...peaked at 300k subs, and started bleeding quickly after the first couple of well made themeparks got released. Why do you think that is?

I doubt there's many souls that didn't try out WoW on release, it's hype was pretty spectacular, but i bet many like myself returned after a few months to the games they may have left behind.

---

Originally posted by doodphace

Themeparks are good, but a niche market.

---

did you mean sandbox?

Originally posted by SysFail

I doubt there's many souls that didn't try out WoW on release, it's hype was pretty spectacular, but i bet many like myself returned after a few months to the games they may have left behind.

Thats funny, sub trends show the exact opposite.

---

Originally posted by jfoytek
Uhm Questing sucks,

yes I want to go there just to mess with the enemy maybe collect resources from there side of the map, not do level 50+ quests yippiddy doo dah....  let them see me when I am there let them try to kill me,,,,, let me kill them.... If I die I get warped all the way back to my home territory so its a risky experience.... 

Now thats endgame content,,,  never ending risk from raiding the enemy kingdoms much more exciting then more pointless PvE in an empty Instanced version of the zone!

---

an elder scrolls game without quests? again, why are you an ES fan exactly? or are you just trollin?

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by SysFail

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

You are right OP considering that how successful sandbox MMOS are and how much money studios make from sandbox titles. Investors are foolish to put their money into ESO project which is clearly a themepark MMO. I mean who would want to dump their hard earned money just like that?

Fools i say.

Yup, EA got is spot on with the star wars IP and other companies are leaping to repeat the same model with well known IP's.

What is hilarious is that EA probably makes more money with a  failed  themepark MMO like SWTOR in comparison to all sandbox MMOS of which there is only one successful title EVE ONLINE and which is not even a fantasy / high fantasy title. lolz!!

I'm guessing you are very young.  

Ultima Online's servers have been open for the past 15+ years.  It was highly successful for a long time, and considering people are still playing, it must be successful enough for EA to continue to make content for it.

EQ was a bit of a sandbox hybrid, but I do remember it being a very popular and successful game.

SWG was very popular, and from everything that I've read (I didn't play it), the game was destroyed by the company who made it, not because it wasn't good.

You mentioned EVE.  And that's not even a high fantasy game, which we know is the most popular setting of the two.

Darkfall, Unholy Wars has actually fixed a massive amount of issues with the old game.  The original was not a success at all, in any way.  However, I think Aventurine will see a fairly large influx in population once the game leaves beta.  It may never see 200,000 players, but I do believe it will be enough to turn a profit.

As far as TESO goes..  

I believe they have a lot of cool features that translate well in an MMO.  I however believe that they are suffering from an identity crisis.  I believe their developers have a lot of ideas that don't fit will together, and they are forcing them to work no matter what. Things like Megaserver, destroying the community.  Phasing and instancing that are making what you do only a part of the overall picture in the world.  Land locking and communication locking factions from 1-50, then opening that up at 50.  Which doesn't make any sense at all.  On top of that, when you go into those areas, you will only be seeing NPC's, not opposing players.  They added 3 factions, all which don't exist, then grouped warring races as allies, just to fit in 3 faction PvP, which doesn't make sense.  They allow you to group with enemies after 50, and in a game where you are supposed to be killing those players, it kills any sort of realm pride or hatred.  They went against the IP''s sandbox direction and made classes, as well as refused to add housing in the open world.  

This game could have been the best of all of the sandbox MMO's.  With hundreds of thousands, if not millions of players playing for years to come.  Hell, their single player games have people playing for years.  Imagine if you could live in the world, where your progress actually meant something.  

They are pissing on the very people who made their game so popular.

Originally posted by baphamet

 

---

Originally posted by doodphace

 

Themeparks are good, but a niche market.

 

---

 

did you mean sandbox?

No he meant that they are a niche market for those who lack the ability to self-direct.

Originally posted by Livnthedream

Originally posted by SysFail

I doubt there's many souls that didn't try out WoW on release, it's hype was pretty spectacular, but i bet many like myself returned after a few months to the games they may have left behind.

Thats funny, sub trends show the exact opposite.

I can only go by personal experience, supply the stats if you've got them.

Originally posted by cronius77
all i seriously hear in this thread is op and a few others are crying because they cannot go around and camp players in other realms because you have to flag for pvp or be in the end game zones for it. This game will do far better than any  all so great sandbox that released. Hell im willing to bet right now that this game sells more boxes alone than eve combined with all the rest of its full loot pvp garbage thats out there. OP seriously if you think this game would do better with how you are thinking it will be you are sadly dillusional. Themeparks outsale any sandbox games over here. Also you can blame games like darkfall and mortal using excuses for the devs not having funding or whatever but its not that trust me , its people dont want to be griefed when they are playing a game and trying to relax. They have a full large zone for all the pvp you wish , if you dont like it like that dont play its as simple as that. But coming here with this argument sandboxes are so great and finacially your claims have ZERO truth to them.

First off learn to phrase your ideas.

Second off paragraphs are your friend.

Third off learn to spell and brush up on your grammar while you're at it and learn which words actually exist in the english language.

Fourth off learn to construct coherent arguments.

Fifth off leave the fanboism at home.

Follow the above and someone might actually take the time to read everything you write and not just skim through it like an intellectual would through the twilight saga out of morbid curiosity.

---

Originally posted by DAS1337

---

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

---

Originally posted by SysFail

---

Originally posted by Doogiehowser You are right OP considering that how successful sandbox MMOS are and how much money studios make from sandbox titles. Investors are foolish to put their money into ESO project which is clearly a themepark MMO. I mean who would want to dump their hard earned money just like that? Fools i say.

---

Yup, EA got is spot on with the star wars IP and other companies are leaping to repeat the same model with well known IP's.

---

What is hilarious is that EA probably makes more money with a  failed  themepark MMO like SWTOR in comparison to all sandbox MMOS of which there is only one successful title EVE ONLINE and which is not even a fantasy / high fantasy title. lolz!!

---

I'm guessing you are very young.  

 

Ultima Online's servers have been open for the past 15+ years.  It was highly successful for a long time, and considering people are still playing, it must be successful enough for EA to continue to make content for it.

 

EQ was a bit of a sandbox hybrid, but I do remember it being a very popular and successful game.

 

SWG was very popular, and from everything that I've read (I didn't play it), the game was destroyed by the company who made it, not because it wasn't good.

 

You mentioned EVE.  And that's not even a high fantasy game, which we know is the most popular setting of the two.

 

Darkfall, Unholy Wars has actually fixed a massive amount of issues with the old game.  The original was not a success at all, in any way.  However, I think Aventurine will see a fairly large influx in population once the game leaves beta.  It may never see 200,000 players, but I do believe it will be enough to turn a profit.

 

As far as TESO goes..  

 

I believe they have a lot of cool features that translate well in an MMO.  I however believe that they are suffering from an identity crisis.  I believe their developers have a lot of ideas that don't fit will together, and they are forcing them to work no matter what. Things like Megaserver, destroying the community.  Phasing and instancing that are making what you do only a part of the overall picture in the world.  Land locking and communication locking factions from 1-50, then opening that up at 50.  Which doesn't make any sense at all.  On top of that, when you go into those areas, you will only be seeing NPC's, not opposing players.  They added 3 factions, all which don't exist, then grouped warring races as allies, just to fit in 3 faction PvP, which doesn't make sense.  They allow you to group with enemies after 50, and in a game where you are supposed to be killing those players, it kills any sort of realm pride or hatred.  They went against the IP''s sandbox direction and made classes, as well as refused to add housing in the open world.  

 

This game could have been the best of all of the sandbox MMO's.  With hundreds of thousands, if not millions of players playing for years to come.  Hell, their single player games have people playing for years.  Imagine if you could live in the world, where your progress actually meant something.  

 

They are pissing on the very people who made their game so popular.

---

first of all, ES games are not sandbox's, they are theme park style more than anything with some sandbox elements.

secondly, the guy you quoted is actually correct regardless of what age he is.

IIRC EQ was the most popular MMO as far as subs pre-wow era.... because of its themepark elements that other games didn't really have at the time.

even when SWG came out it was still not as successful as EQ even though it was starwars.

i am not saying themeparks are better (it depends on personal preference) but they definitely attract more people.

sandbox games are cool but only attract a niche group of players.

that is why you wont see a company sink millions of dollars into the development of a pure sandbox game or you wont see a major IP like ES be made into one either.

SWG was the last one and it likely will never happen again unless a sandbox comes out that we have not seen before that attracts the masses.

Originally posted by SysFail

Originally posted by Livnthedream

Originally posted by SysFail

I doubt there's many souls that didn't try out WoW on release, it's hype was pretty spectacular, but i bet many like myself returned after a few months to the games they may have left behind.

Thats funny, sub trends show the exact opposite.

I can only go by personal experience, supply the stats if you've got them.

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png

Notice the significant drop in most titles at the same time, with pretty much none of them ever gaining subs again. For point of reference judge it by the same line as Eq2, they did launch within a month of one another.

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by cronius77
all i seriously hear in this thread is op and a few others are crying because they cannot go around and camp players in other realms because you have to flag for pvp or be in the end game zones for it. This game will do far better than any  all so great sandbox that released. Hell im willing to bet right now that this game sells more boxes alone than eve combined with all the rest of its full loot pvp garbage thats out there. OP seriously if you think this game would do better with how you are thinking it will be you are sadly dillusional. Themeparks outsale any sandbox games over here. Also you can blame games like darkfall and mortal using excuses for the devs not having funding or whatever but its not that trust me , its people dont want to be griefed when they are playing a game and trying to relax. They have a full large zone for all the pvp you wish , if you dont like it like that dont play its as simple as that. But coming here with this argument sandboxes are so great and finacially your claims have ZERO truth to them.

First off learn to phrase your ideas.

Second off paragraphs are your friend.

Third off learn to spell and brush up on your grammer while you're at it and learn which words actually exist in the english language.

Fourth off learn to construct coherent arguments.

Fifth off leave the fanboism at home.

Follow the above and someone might actually take the time to read everything you write and not just skim through it like an intellectual would through the twilight saga out of morbid curiosity.

 God man, don't make it so easy... glass houses and all...

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Originally posted by ignore_me

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Originally posted by baphamet  

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Originally posted by doodphace   Themeparks are good, but a niche market.  

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  did you mean sandbox?

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No he meant that they are a niche market for those who lack the ability to self-direct.

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lack the ability or just don't like games like that? anyone who thinks theme parks are niche compared to sanbox are not living in reality.

Originally posted by 666murmur666

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by jfoytek

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by LanceC

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by LanceC
From what I've heard TES and ESO will be so different that besides a few TES gimmicks it will play nothing like any TES game.  Seems shameful to call it part of TES.

Then you heard very wrong. Tell me what about ESO is not like TES?

Everything I've heard so far. Seems way to restrictive to be an elder scrolls game. What I loved from all TES games was the interactive world. ESO will be stage with props. While it looks like TES game ... it will be a elder scroll shell. Crack that shell and you'll see that it is the same MMO that  has flooded the market for the last few years.

Thats forum spew and no facts as to what makes this not a TES game. 

1 Has TES lore

2 Has TES combat

3 Has TES World and and art style

4 They had to have classes its a MMO, but it has TES freedom of making your powers and class do what you want. So much so its almost a sandbox class system

5 You can now explore anywhere on one char, by most here that seems to make it sandbox lol

6 lots of features to encurage and reward you for exploring. More then most MMOs do

Thats just to name a few. Only thing you cant do from TES game is play any race with any faction. ESO is themepark but that is far from fail. Bad games fail, good games do well thats all. 

Think about what they said about exploring the other area's, they only open when you reach 50 and complete all of the quests in your area....  And the content will be scaled to give you a harder challenge....

This about this.....  How is an area going to be harder for you?  But yet easy for them?  Because your not going to be in there zone your going to be in your own instanced version of there zone!!!

What TES game could you explore all the areas? None of them. This is a MMO and they are opening up the game so you can go anywhere and your upset because they are making 2/3 of the maps end game content? WHAT?!?!?!?!? You want to explore but kill grey mobs? As a MMO player you should be excited that not only you get to explore everywhere but the mobs will be worth fighting because it will take skill and you will be rewarded as the level you are. Matter of fact some of the best loot in the game will be earned this way. THATS A GOOD THING!!! (((eye roll)))

 I am sorry, I just have to comment. You just went full retard. Like, the kind of retard that is the reason why the investors don't give their money to make something decent. The 12-year old with rich parents kind of retard. The squeaker on X-box Live kind of retard. The go f-yourself and play singleplayer games if you want pve kind of retard.

 

 Ok, I'm cool. *lights one up* I can clearly understand why nobody would invest for something so risky as a full sandbox MMO, especially with something like a high-expectation franchise like TES. No problem. What I can't understand is why the Hell don't they make more servers? What happened to the time where if you wanted PVE, you would've rolled a char on a PVE server. Same for PVP or Roleplay. Sure, the costs to maintain them are higher, but let's think a little: We've all been there, we've all been tempted to have more than one character. Some more, some less. More characters to grow means more subscriptions. More subscriptions => more money. Whereas if you lvl up different chars on the same kind of server with the same crummy mechanics, you get bored and leave the game quicker than if you lvl up one from pvp-ing and another from pve, for example. Why the f*** are developers even bothering to copy shit mechanincs from games that are sucessful instead of taking their strong points? Do what Blizzard did. As much as I hate that company and swore I'd never pay them 1 cent for any future games, they did good. They took everything they could and made them in their style, but they took what had POTENTIAL. Why bother instancing everything? The same damn problem Vindictus had: almost flawless combat, but everything was instanced. Crap. If I want to go head on and charge into a party with 10-20 high level players because I'm bored, I want to be able to do that.

 As much as casual gamers are concerned, IMHO, if you want to play a p2p mmo just to talk or kill the AI, go play Hello kitty online or some other junk. I don't need no children who still pick their nose in my game just because their parents can't take time to properly give them an education and throw them one game after another. If you're not old enough to know advanced mathematics, you should be attending school, not mess up a franchise just because you're consumers. Cause you're not, your parents are paying for those games, and they don't give two s**** about lore or any other thing that made the game worth paying for. As far as PVP goes, no worries, no kid will spend their entire week analysing game mechanics or other more advanced things. Those are done by HARDCORE gamers a.k.a. the people that PAY because they have some kind of EXPECTATIONS out of a game.

 As much as I'd love those things to happen, since I'm aware that money talks in this situation, the idea with separate servers remains. I want this game to succeed, I really do, but I've learned over the years that expectations have nothing to do with the final product and I urge everyone to hold onto their money until they see the game they want. Maybe by not getting the money they invested into a s*** project back, the developers will think twice about throwing money on just another WoW clone that is doomed to fail. Because greed mixed with intelligence is more dangerous than downright idiotic greed like we see in so many companies nowadays. I'm not saying make an MMO where you lose everything on death, including your character, that's just idiotic. But if you want to go in any of the extremes, do it on several servers so we can all enjoy the game.

DODGES THE FLAMING TROLL HATE! You are now +1 at dodging trolls.

That was close I almost read past you calling me retarded. Less hate I may read your next post.