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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Another great title ruined to the themepark.

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245 posts found
  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5561

3/21/13 11:13:20 AM#141
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by LanceC
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by LanceC
From what I've heard TES and ESO will be so different that besides a few TES gimmicks it will play nothing like any TES game.  Seems shameful to call it part of TES.

Then you heard very wrong. Tell me what about ESO is not like TES?

Everything I've heard so far. Seems way to restrictive to be an elder scrolls game. What I loved from all TES games was the interactive world. ESO will be stage with props. While it looks like TES game ... it will be a elder scroll shell. Crack that shell and you'll see that it is the same MMO that  has flooded the market for the last few years.

Thats forum spew and no facts as to what makes this not a TES game. 

1 Has TES lore

2 Has TES combat

3 Has TES World and and art style

4 They had to have classes its a MMO, but it has TES freedom of making your powers and class do what you want. So much so its almost a sandbox class system

5 You can now explore anywhere on one char, by most here that seems to make it sandbox lol

6 lots of features to encurage and reward you for exploring. More then most MMOs do

Thats just to name a few. Only thing you cant do from TES game is play any race with any faction. ESO is themepark but that is far from fail. Bad games fail, good games do well thats all. 

Think about what they said about exploring the other area's, they only open when you reach 50 and complete all of the quests in your area....  And the content will be scaled to give you a harder challenge....

This about this.....  How is an area going to be harder for you?  But yet easy for them?  Because your not going to be in there zone your going to be in your own instanced version of there zone!!!

What TES game could you explore all the areas? None of them. This is a MMO and they are opening up the game so you can go anywhere and your upset because they are making 2/3 of the maps end game content? WHAT?!?!?!?!? You want to explore but kill grey mobs? As a MMO player you should be excited that not only you get to explore everywhere but the mobs will be worth fighting because it will take skill and you will be rewarded as the level you are. Matter of fact some of the best loot in the game will be earned this way. THATS A GOOD THING!!! (((eye roll)))

Every TES game allowed you to go everywhere on the map, where couldnt you go in a TES game???

 

I am upset because I dont want to be in an instanced zone with a few people, I want to be in the real 1 and only version of that zone with everyone thats in it friend or foe pvp flagged or not....  not 25 versions of the same zone with 3 people in each!!!

Its a corrolary of the PVP that they had no choice but to make cyrodil heavily instanced - hence the campaigns that your assigned to, though i seem to remember that you can switch from one campaign to another, but with restrictions on frequency etc.  as for there only being 3 people in cyrodil at the time, that can't really happen unless players deliberately make it happen by not going into cyrodil in the first place, and there isnt a one and only real zone to cyrodil, when you create your character in the game, your assigned to a specific campaign, you can change it at some point should the need arise, like, to join friends/guild members in a different campaign, but whether you do so is entirely up to you - the most likely occurance is that you might have to queue to join a particular campaign, rather than worry about there being nobody there.

  User Deleted
3/21/13 11:13:36 AM#142
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Nope, Morrowind, Skyrim, Oblivion etc each had their own maps. Buy Skyrim and you could not wander around the Oblivion maps. As for instanced zones... we have no clue how big they will be. Maybe they will be so big they support 400-800 players or maybe you have a right to be upset because they will be small and only support 40 players. We dont know. Before you get upset why dont we wait for some info first. 

Huh,

    Uhm use a little common sense here....  I was talking about being able to go to all parts of the respective map of the respective game!!!!

 

and I am upset because they have clarified that its going to be our own PvE version of the map where the other guys cannot see you!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/view/forums/thread/379940/Clearing-up-the-new-Faction-Lock.html

And they are clueless touting this as a good thing!!!!

Screw special PvE zone where only your faction can see you give us there actual zone and allow them to see us!

 Because they were solo games. There would be no reason to restrict a part of the map....

This game has more places to explore than any previous Elder Scroll game, each faction has more than double the land mass of any previous Elder Scrolls game,  and yet you compare it to these older games and say they have more freedom.

That is their solution to both the PvP and PvE problems. PvE players get to see the other zones so they don't need to reroll, and it doesn't ruin the PvP setting of the game.

  doodphace

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1719

3/21/13 11:13:50 AM#143
Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by LanceC
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by LanceC
From what I've heard TES and ESO will be so different that besides a few TES gimmicks it will play nothing like any TES game.  Seems shameful to call it part of TES.

Then you heard very wrong. Tell me what about ESO is not like TES?

Everything I've heard so far. Seems way to restrictive to be an elder scrolls game. What I loved from all TES games was the interactive world. ESO will be stage with props. While it looks like TES game ... it will be a elder scroll shell. Crack that shell and you'll see that it is the same MMO that  has flooded the market for the last few years.

Thats forum spew and no facts as to what makes this not a TES game. 

1 Has TES lore

2 Has TES combat

3 Has TES World and and art style

4 They had to have classes its a MMO, but it has TES freedom of making your powers and class do what you want. So much so its almost a sandbox class system

5 You can now explore anywhere on one char, by most here that seems to make it sandbox lol

6 lots of features to encurage and reward you for exploring. More then most MMOs do

Thats just to name a few. Only thing you cant do from TES game is play any race with any faction. ESO is themepark but that is far from fail. Bad games fail, good games do well thats all. 

Think about what they said about exploring the other area's, they only open when you reach 50 and complete all of the quests in your area....  And the content will be scaled to give you a harder challenge....

This about this.....  How is an area going to be harder for you?  But yet easy for them?  Because your not going to be in there zone your going to be in your own instanced version of there zone!!!

What TES game could you explore all the areas? None of them. This is a MMO and they are opening up the game so you can go anywhere and your upset because they are making 2/3 of the maps end game content? WHAT?!?!?!?!? You want to explore but kill grey mobs? As a MMO player you should be excited that not only you get to explore everywhere but the mobs will be worth fighting because it will take skill and you will be rewarded as the level you are. Matter of fact some of the best loot in the game will be earned this way. THATS A GOOD THING!!! (((eye roll)))

Every TES game allowed you to go everywhere on the map, where couldnt you go in a TES game???

 

I am upset because I dont want to be in an instanced zone with a few people, I want to be in the real 1 and only version of that zone with everyone thats in it friend or foe pvp flagged or not....  not 25 versions of the same zone with 3 people in each!!!

Only EvE and TSW(?) had one server with everyone in the same world. At least with megaservers I can move to an instance where my friends are free of charge or without re-rolling a new character.

TSW does not have that all. The population is indeed seperated by diff servers (dementions) and other "phases" within each demention. Everyone has the "ability" to group together with cross demtion grouping and play (even WoW has this), but you by no means see "everyone" in the game near you.

  User Deleted
3/21/13 11:15:06 AM#144
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by jfoytek

SWTOR at its peak has 1.7M subs its now below 1M over a 700K drop...  But yes thats still alot of subscriptions, minor problem the game costed over 400M to make meaning it hasnt turned a profit yet... and Runescapes 8.5M subscriptions at peak wont be touched by SWTOR anytime soon nor ever!

 

The $400 mil rumour is just that, a rumour. SWTOR probably still has about 1 mil subscribers, based on server loads and general activity. Each of those paying $15 a month.  That combined with the box sales and cash shop sales would have more than paid for the development costs by now.

SWG had less than 200k subscribers by the time they tried the NGE which everyone blames for the death of the game, but really the game was dying well before that.

Just face it, even the most popular sandbox - EVE - cannot compete with one of the most generic and bland themeparks - SWTOR.  Why would people throw money at that? When they can make something bland and generic with a good IP and get SWTOR numbers?

SWTOR is now free to play and they do not say if the remaining active subscriptions are paying so its very likely a large chunk of that remaining subscriber base is paying 0....  And no the 400M is not a rumor

And FYI it would take 1M Subs at 15 per month for 24 months to = 360M  So two years of Sub fee's at the 1M active sub level to break even

 1) It was a rumour. It has never been confirmed anywhere.

2) Most of the players are subscribing, the game is set up that way. If you don't subscribe at max level (which is still very active) then you end up paying more than a subscription.

3) They had about 2 mil to 1.7 mil subs for the first 6 months. Add the box fee on top. So yeah no.  

 

For the record, I don't play the game or have any interest in it. But if you think it is unprofitable you are incredibly delusional. Go log into the game, its free to look at how busy it is.

EA's shares took a 50% loss just after the release of SWTOR, coincidence or not?

 Shares are based on expectations. Not comparitive profit.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7493

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

3/21/13 11:17:10 AM#145
Originally posted by Yamota

Agree 100%. Elder Scrolls games, whatever they were, were NOT ThemeParks and yet Elder Scrolls Online will be. 

But hey, another indication that the MMO genre is run by suits who do not give a crap about IPs other than being a way for them to make more money.

 

Well, I don't argue with your second point at all, but something like Skyrim is a themepark.

'Themepark' does not mean linear, dictated play. 'Themepark' just means a space full of pre-made 'rides', which Skyrim is. It is just an undirected themepark. The mistake TESO makes I think is seemingly putting it all on rails.

The difference is turning up at Disneyland and being told 'hey, there ya go, enjoy what you want in whatever order you want, go for it', or turning up and being met by a corperate guide who takes you by the elbow and walks you around in the order they want you to go in to do what they want you to do.

Sadly, TESO seems to fall more towards the area of the second approach.

I will add here that I do not see the word 'themepark' as an insult to anything, I can very much enjoy pre-made content in my games. EQ, my favourite MMORPG, is an undirected themepark. I tend to enjoy hybrid, that mix up theme with sand, games the most though these days.

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1406

3/21/13 11:17:35 AM#146
Originally posted by doodphace

TSW does not have that in all. Everyone is seperated by phases and dementions. Everyone has the "ability" to group together, but you by no means see "everyone" in the game near you.

All players are on one server though right in TSW? It's irrelevant to me if I'm able to see everyone. TBH the fewer, the better. :)

  doodphace

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1719

3/21/13 11:17:43 AM#147
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by jfoytek

SWTOR at its peak has 1.7M subs its now below 1M over a 700K drop...  But yes thats still alot of subscriptions, minor problem the game costed over 400M to make meaning it hasnt turned a profit yet... and Runescapes 8.5M subscriptions at peak wont be touched by SWTOR anytime soon nor ever!

 

The $400 mil rumour is just that, a rumour. SWTOR probably still has about 1 mil subscribers, based on server loads and general activity. Each of those paying $15 a month.  That combined with the box sales and cash shop sales would have more than paid for the development costs by now.

SWG had less than 200k subscribers by the time they tried the NGE which everyone blames for the death of the game, but really the game was dying well before that.

Just face it, even the most popular sandbox - EVE - cannot compete with one of the most generic and bland themeparks - SWTOR.  Why would people throw money at that? When they can make something bland and generic with a good IP and get SWTOR numbers?

SWTOR is now free to play and they do not say if the remaining active subscriptions are paying so its very likely a large chunk of that remaining subscriber base is paying 0....  And no the 400M is not a rumor

And FYI it would take 1M Subs at 15 per month for 24 months to = 360M  So two years of Sub fee's at the 1M active sub level to break even

 1) It was a rumour. It has never been confirmed anywhere.

2) Most of the players are subscribing, the game is set up that way. If you don't subscribe at max level (which is still very active) then you end up paying more than a subscription.

3) They had about 2 mil to 1.7 mil subs for the first 6 months. Add the box fee on top. So yeah no.  

 

For the record, I don't play the game or have any interest in it. But if you think it is unprofitable you are incredibly delusional. Go log into the game, its free to look at how busy it is.

EA's shares took a 50% loss just after the release of SWTOR, coincidence or not?

 Shares are based on expectations. Not comparitive profit.

Just to chime in on this, although SWTOR flopped in the sense of coming nowhere near WoW, it does have more paying subscribers than EVE. Money is indeed with Themeparks. Rift is another example of a themepark (well made one at that) having more paying subs than EVE.

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1966

3/21/13 11:18:00 AM#148
Originally posted by jfoytek

And for the record I am not a PVP first player, I am a crafter....

 

There are 4 Types of players in MMO's PvPers, PvEers, Crafters, and Noobs!

PvPers are the black sheep of the MMO world they get crapped on regularly, its falsely believed they are this overwhelming minority group that plays MMO's when infact there not!!!  No they are waiting, playing single player games, playing silly games, playing everygame that gets released hoping for the return of Ultima Online or Shadowbane!!!

 

What they get is Darkfall and Mortal Online, small studio's who try hard but dont have the money to deliver!

 

Crafters like myself and also greatly upset with the state of the MMO world as most MMO's put crafting as an after thought!  We tend to play PvP titles more then PvE titles because PvP titles have a better economy, they die they need gear the economy isnt out of kilter like the PvE safe games the land of Carebears where the carebears never die have the greatest gear ever forever because they never risk it!

 

PvEers the mass's or so its thought, the kids generation Easy mode!  They get all the tops titles, good graphics etc....  They are the target audience  this group of players that play a few weeks and quit out of boredom, why again do companys cater to this huge ADD demographic when the more mature player base, the more loyal player base, the ones more likely to shell out the cash are NOT PvEers....

 

And then the noobs are of little consequence they loged on once to see what an MMO is and never log back on again! 

 

 

I don't know all the facts about the current state of gaming.  I see the trends and agree and disagree with some of them, but one thing I do know for a fact and that is that PvPers and Crafters are a minoirty.  There's nothing wrong with that, but you certainly will need to learn to deal with the fact that minorities in the gaming genre don't always get reperesented in every single game that comes out, with possible exception to the minority raiding crowd.  You do, however get very good representation in most MMOs that exist.  You even have crafting only games out there just as there are PvP only games out there.  I'd say, as minority groups, you guys get very well represented in the genre.  I also see from anecdotal evidence that games that focus solely on minority gameplay don't do very well, with a small exception for Eve Online.

There's a very good reason for the focus on gamey style MMOs over the more simulated style you are looking for and it fits with the past trend that single player games went through with this very same issue.  Personally, I'd like a more sandbox or sandpark game, but only if it doesn't become the typical mess of PvP / Crafting focus that have brought previous sandbox games to the point of shutting down.

  jfoytek

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/12
Posts: 151

 
OP  3/21/13 11:18:14 AM#149
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

If he was thats a little silly as this is a MMO. Content needs to scale as you level or its not worth doing. Even if they just opened up the maps and said, there you go, go anywhere. There would be so much content you would need to roll 6 chars to see it all if you didnt want to walk around doing grey quests killing grey mobs. With the ways its done now, a real gamer has a reason to go there other then being able to say. I seen it!!! Is that what we want from our games now? 2/3 of the map is end game content, this is a MMO, so thats awesome!!!!!! Thats already more elder game then most MMOs have at launch.

Uhm Questing sucks,

yes I want to go there just to mess with the enemy maybe collect resources from there side of the map, not do level 50+ quests yippiddy doo dah....  let them see me when I am there let them try to kill me,,,,, let me kill them.... If I die I get warped all the way back to my home territory so its a risky experience.... 

Now thats endgame content,,,  never ending risk from raiding the enemy kingdoms much more exciting then more pointless PvE in an empty Instanced version of the zone!

UO,Shadowbane,SWG,Darkfall,MO,Wurm Online,Secretworld,GW,GW2,PotBS,LotR,Atlantica Online,WWII Online,WoT,Battlestar Galactica,Planetside2,Perpetuum,Fallen Earth,Runescape,WoW,Eve,Xsylon,Dragon Prophet, Salem

  User Deleted
3/21/13 11:20:00 AM#150
I guess you could look at TESO as a themepark. I am looking at it as an co-op RPG that has a single player story with a "siege warfare MOBA" tacked on at the end right now. Like some, I have struggled to accept that MMORPGs are not defined even by development teams in the same way they used to be.
  User Deleted
3/21/13 11:20:13 AM#151
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by jfoytek

SWTOR at its peak has 1.7M subs its now below 1M over a 700K drop...  But yes thats still alot of subscriptions, minor problem the game costed over 400M to make meaning it hasnt turned a profit yet... and Runescapes 8.5M subscriptions at peak wont be touched by SWTOR anytime soon nor ever!

 

The $400 mil rumour is just that, a rumour. SWTOR probably still has about 1 mil subscribers, based on server loads and general activity. Each of those paying $15 a month.  That combined with the box sales and cash shop sales would have more than paid for the development costs by now.

SWG had less than 200k subscribers by the time they tried the NGE which everyone blames for the death of the game, but really the game was dying well before that.

Just face it, even the most popular sandbox - EVE - cannot compete with one of the most generic and bland themeparks - SWTOR.  Why would people throw money at that? When they can make something bland and generic with a good IP and get SWTOR numbers?

SWTOR is now free to play and they do not say if the remaining active subscriptions are paying so its very likely a large chunk of that remaining subscriber base is paying 0....  And no the 400M is not a rumor

And FYI it would take 1M Subs at 15 per month for 24 months to = 360M  So two years of Sub fee's at the 1M active sub level to break even

 1) It was a rumour. It has never been confirmed anywhere.

2) Most of the players are subscribing, the game is set up that way. If you don't subscribe at max level (which is still very active) then you end up paying more than a subscription.

3) They had about 2 mil to 1.7 mil subs for the first 6 months. Add the box fee on top. So yeah no.  

 

For the record, I don't play the game or have any interest in it. But if you think it is unprofitable you are incredibly delusional. Go log into the game, its free to look at how busy it is.

EA's shares took a 50% loss just after the release of SWTOR, coincidence or not?

 Shares are based on expectations. Not comparitive profit.

Let me translate what he's actually saying: I KNOW I AM RIGHT BECAUSE I AM NEVER WRONG.

In this case it's shocking to him that he is wrong, SWTOR was a craptastic flop that failed to make its budget back and is flailing now trying not to sink like a stone. He asserted 1 mil people play the game and sub, maybe 1 mil play it to get the story but as he so kindly put I doubt they're gonna stick around after due to the heavy restrictions of free play and no real value for the sub.

 

TESO is gonna suffer the same fate tbh... many people want a new singleplayer TES game just how like many prior to SWTOR wanted KOTOR 3, just history repeating itself really.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3712

3/21/13 11:21:52 AM#152
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Nope, Morrowind, Skyrim, Oblivion etc each had their own maps. Buy Skyrim and you could not wander around the Oblivion maps. As for instanced zones... we have no clue how big they will be. Maybe they will be so big they support 400-800 players or maybe you have a right to be upset because they will be small and only support 40 players. We dont know. Before you get upset why dont we wait for some info first. 

Huh,

    Uhm use a little common sense here....  I was talking about being able to go to all parts of the respective map of the respective game!!!!

 

and I am upset because they have clarified that its going to be our own PvE version of the map where the other guys cannot see you!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/view/forums/thread/379940/Clearing-up-the-new-Faction-Lock.html

And they are clueless touting this as a good thing!!!!

Screw special PvE zone where only your faction can see you give us there actual zone and allow them to see us!

You cant make a TES MMO by just adding more players lol. You have to pick a model to fit it in and go with it. Purest kill me. No game could progress by their standards!!!! Mario would still be fixing pipes and his girl friend Peach would be dead. Games need to change or they get old and not worth playing. Let this IP grow and stop getting upset because it has lol. Or do you want to go back to the 80's and keep everything the same? WOOT SIDE SCROLLING 8 BIT FUN!!!!!

  TsaboHavoc

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/11
Posts: 340

3/21/13 11:36:42 AM#153
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by LanceC
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by LanceC
From what I've heard TES and ESO will be so different that besides a few TES gimmicks it will play nothing like any TES game.  Seems shameful to call it part of TES.

Then you heard very wrong. Tell me what about ESO is not like TES?

Everything I've heard so far. Seems way to restrictive to be an elder scrolls game. What I loved from all TES games was the interactive world. ESO will be stage with props. While it looks like TES game ... it will be a elder scroll shell. Crack that shell and you'll see that it is the same MMO that  has flooded the market for the last few years.

Thats forum spew and no facts as to what makes this not a TES game. 

1 Has TES lore

2 Has TES combat

3 Has TES World and and art style

4 They had to have classes its a MMO, but it has TES freedom of making your powers and class do what you want. So much so its almost a sandbox class system

5 You can now explore anywhere on one char, by most here that seems to make it sandbox lol

6 lots of features to encurage and reward you for exploring. More then most MMOs do

Thats just to name a few. Only thing you cant do from TES game is play any race with any faction. ESO is themepark but that is far from fail. Bad games fail, good games do well thats all. 

Think about what they said about exploring the other area's, they only open when you reach 50 and complete all of the quests in your area....  And the content will be scaled to give you a harder challenge....

This about this.....  How is an area going to be harder for you?  But yet easy for them?  Because your not going to be in there zone your going to be in your own instanced version of there zone!!!

What TES game could you explore all the areas? None of them. This is a MMO and they are opening up the game so you can go anywhere and your upset because they are making 2/3 of the maps end game content? WHAT?!?!?!?!? You want to explore but kill grey mobs? As a MMO player you should be excited that not only you get to explore everywhere but the mobs will be worth fighting because it will take skill and you will be rewarded as the level you are. Matter of fact some of the best loot in the game will be earned this way. THATS A GOOD THING!!! (((eye roll)))

this argument is beyond ridiculous, when i bought skyrim i expected to explore all SKYRIM and they provided, u know, after all the title is ES:SKYRIM not elder scrolls:tamriel, extend that to all other titles, MORROWIND, provided, ...

Now the title is elder scrolls : online, i expect a fully exploration without restrictions of  all nations at any time, not "quest hubs lvl 1-10, with artificial barriers, overall a world not a stupid, bland, pointless themepark. "hey i want to be the hero cause mommy said im a special snowflake"

  SysFail

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/05
Posts: 377

3/21/13 11:41:17 AM#154
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by jfoytek

SWTOR at its peak has 1.7M subs its now below 1M over a 700K drop...  But yes thats still alot of subscriptions, minor problem the game costed over 400M to make meaning it hasnt turned a profit yet... and Runescapes 8.5M subscriptions at peak wont be touched by SWTOR anytime soon nor ever!

 

The $400 mil rumour is just that, a rumour. SWTOR probably still has about 1 mil subscribers, based on server loads and general activity. Each of those paying $15 a month.  That combined with the box sales and cash shop sales would have more than paid for the development costs by now.

SWG had less than 200k subscribers by the time they tried the NGE which everyone blames for the death of the game, but really the game was dying well before that.

Just face it, even the most popular sandbox - EVE - cannot compete with one of the most generic and bland themeparks - SWTOR.  Why would people throw money at that? When they can make something bland and generic with a good IP and get SWTOR numbers?

SWTOR is now free to play and they do not say if the remaining active subscriptions are paying so its very likely a large chunk of that remaining subscriber base is paying 0....  And no the 400M is not a rumor

And FYI it would take 1M Subs at 15 per month for 24 months to = 360M  So two years of Sub fee's at the 1M active sub level to break even

 1) It was a rumour. It has never been confirmed anywhere.

2) Most of the players are subscribing, the game is set up that way. If you don't subscribe at max level (which is still very active) then you end up paying more than a subscription.

3) They had about 2 mil to 1.7 mil subs for the first 6 months. Add the box fee on top. So yeah no.  

 

For the record, I don't play the game or have any interest in it. But if you think it is unprofitable you are incredibly delusional. Go log into the game, its free to look at how busy it is.

EA's shares took a 50% loss just after the release of SWTOR, coincidence or not?

 Shares are based on expectations. Not comparitive profit.

Just to chime in on this, although SWTOR flopped in the sense of coming nowhere near WoW, it does have more paying subscribers than EVE. Money is indeed with Themeparks. Rift is another example of a themepark (well made one at that) having more paying subs than EVE.

Eve has done remarkedly well for what it is, its freedom of choice is fantastic, but the spaceship instead of a toon is very niche indeed.

Take the same model that EvE uses, but apply it to a world with toons and i've no doubt it would be a phenomenal success.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3712

3/21/13 11:42:53 AM#155
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by LanceC
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by LanceC
From what I've heard TES and ESO will be so different that besides a few TES gimmicks it will play nothing like any TES game.  Seems shameful to call it part of TES.

Then you heard very wrong. Tell me what about ESO is not like TES?

Everything I've heard so far. Seems way to restrictive to be an elder scrolls game. What I loved from all TES games was the interactive world. ESO will be stage with props. While it looks like TES game ... it will be a elder scroll shell. Crack that shell and you'll see that it is the same MMO that  has flooded the market for the last few years.

Thats forum spew and no facts as to what makes this not a TES game. 

1 Has TES lore

2 Has TES combat

3 Has TES World and and art style

4 They had to have classes its a MMO, but it has TES freedom of making your powers and class do what you want. So much so its almost a sandbox class system

5 You can now explore anywhere on one char, by most here that seems to make it sandbox lol

6 lots of features to encurage and reward you for exploring. More then most MMOs do

Thats just to name a few. Only thing you cant do from TES game is play any race with any faction. ESO is themepark but that is far from fail. Bad games fail, good games do well thats all. 

Think about what they said about exploring the other area's, they only open when you reach 50 and complete all of the quests in your area....  And the content will be scaled to give you a harder challenge....

This about this.....  How is an area going to be harder for you?  But yet easy for them?  Because your not going to be in there zone your going to be in your own instanced version of there zone!!!

What TES game could you explore all the areas? None of them. This is a MMO and they are opening up the game so you can go anywhere and your upset because they are making 2/3 of the maps end game content? WHAT?!?!?!?!? You want to explore but kill grey mobs? As a MMO player you should be excited that not only you get to explore everywhere but the mobs will be worth fighting because it will take skill and you will be rewarded as the level you are. Matter of fact some of the best loot in the game will be earned this way. THATS A GOOD THING!!! (((eye roll)))

this argument is beyond ridiculous, when i bought skyrim i expected to explore all SKYRIM and they provided, u know, after all the title is ES:SKYRIM not elder scrolls:tamriel, extend that to all other titles, MORROWIND, provided, ...

Now the title is elder scrolls : online, i expect a fully exploration without restrictions of  all nations at any time, not "quest hubs lvl 1-10, with artificial barriers, overall a world not a stupid, bland, pointless themepark. "hey i want to be the hero cause mommy said im a special snowflake"

Game is not just quest hubs. There are side things to do, public events, 2 man and 5 man open world dungeons all scalled to your level. How can 2/3 of the world being set aside for elder game be bad? Dont like themepark then go find a MMO thats a sandpark. There are only a few so it wont take long to find one. Want a new game, Archeage seems to be doing some great things!!!

EDIT: BTW you quests in this game work like they do in GW2, not any hubs at all!!!

  doodphace

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1719

3/21/13 11:44:13 AM#156
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by jfoytek

SWTOR at its peak has 1.7M subs its now below 1M over a 700K drop...  But yes thats still alot of subscriptions, minor problem the game costed over 400M to make meaning it hasnt turned a profit yet... and Runescapes 8.5M subscriptions at peak wont be touched by SWTOR anytime soon nor ever!

 

The $400 mil rumour is just that, a rumour. SWTOR probably still has about 1 mil subscribers, based on server loads and general activity. Each of those paying $15 a month.  That combined with the box sales and cash shop sales would have more than paid for the development costs by now.

SWG had less than 200k subscribers by the time they tried the NGE which everyone blames for the death of the game, but really the game was dying well before that.

Just face it, even the most popular sandbox - EVE - cannot compete with one of the most generic and bland themeparks - SWTOR.  Why would people throw money at that? When they can make something bland and generic with a good IP and get SWTOR numbers?

SWTOR is now free to play and they do not say if the remaining active subscriptions are paying so its very likely a large chunk of that remaining subscriber base is paying 0....  And no the 400M is not a rumor

And FYI it would take 1M Subs at 15 per month for 24 months to = 360M  So two years of Sub fee's at the 1M active sub level to break even

 1) It was a rumour. It has never been confirmed anywhere.

2) Most of the players are subscribing, the game is set up that way. If you don't subscribe at max level (which is still very active) then you end up paying more than a subscription.

3) They had about 2 mil to 1.7 mil subs for the first 6 months. Add the box fee on top. So yeah no.  

 

For the record, I don't play the game or have any interest in it. But if you think it is unprofitable you are incredibly delusional. Go log into the game, its free to look at how busy it is.

EA's shares took a 50% loss just after the release of SWTOR, coincidence or not?

 Shares are based on expectations. Not comparitive profit.

Just to chime in on this, although SWTOR flopped in the sense of coming nowhere near WoW, it does have more paying subscribers than EVE. Money is indeed with Themeparks. Rift is another example of a themepark (well made one at that) having more paying subs than EVE.

Eve has done remarkedly well for what it is, its freedom of choice is fantastic, but the spaceship instead of a toon is very niche indeed.

Take the same model that EvE uses, but apply it to a world with toons and i've no doubt it would be a phenomenal success.

No doubt has EVE done amaizingly well for what it is. The fact remains that although sanboxes are amaizing, they are indeed a niche market in the MMO world. If I was a developer betting my company on an MMO, I would go for what most people want to play, which is a themepark.

  Nikopol

Novice Member

Joined: 11/21/08
Posts: 627

Brought to you by... The Spirit of Nikopol.

3/21/13 11:49:06 AM#157
Originally posted by SysFail

Eve has done remarkedly well for what it is, its freedom of choice is fantastic, but the spaceship instead of a toon is very niche indeed.

Take the same model that EvE uses, but apply it to a world with toons and i've no doubt it would be a phenomenal success.

Here's a counter-speculation to that: Had EVE been a theme park with the same art, same music, the same universe and very importantly the same progression system (meaning, offline progression that discourages unsubscribing and encourages paying for multiple accounts), it might already have been a phenomenal success! :)

Still, I agree it's a bit frustrating to not see something like EVE in, say, the classic toon-based setup. Here's hoping World of Darkness will be one such game.

 

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

3/21/13 11:50:41 AM#158

What mmorpgs were and should be:

What MMORPG's are to be like

 

 

Todays mmorpg's:

MMORPG's today

  SysFail

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/05
Posts: 377

3/21/13 11:52:59 AM#159
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by jfoytek

SWTOR at its peak has 1.7M subs its now below 1M over a 700K drop...  But yes thats still alot of subscriptions, minor problem the game costed over 400M to make meaning it hasnt turned a profit yet... and Runescapes 8.5M subscriptions at peak wont be touched by SWTOR anytime soon nor ever!

 

The $400 mil rumour is just that, a rumour. SWTOR probably still has about 1 mil subscribers, based on server loads and general activity. Each of those paying $15 a month.  That combined with the box sales and cash shop sales would have more than paid for the development costs by now.

SWG had less than 200k subscribers by the time they tried the NGE which everyone blames for the death of the game, but really the game was dying well before that.

Just face it, even the most popular sandbox - EVE - cannot compete with one of the most generic and bland themeparks - SWTOR.  Why would people throw money at that? When they can make something bland and generic with a good IP and get SWTOR numbers?

SWTOR is now free to play and they do not say if the remaining active subscriptions are paying so its very likely a large chunk of that remaining subscriber base is paying 0....  And no the 400M is not a rumor

And FYI it would take 1M Subs at 15 per month for 24 months to = 360M  So two years of Sub fee's at the 1M active sub level to break even

 1) It was a rumour. It has never been confirmed anywhere.

2) Most of the players are subscribing, the game is set up that way. If you don't subscribe at max level (which is still very active) then you end up paying more than a subscription.

3) They had about 2 mil to 1.7 mil subs for the first 6 months. Add the box fee on top. So yeah no.  

 

For the record, I don't play the game or have any interest in it. But if you think it is unprofitable you are incredibly delusional. Go log into the game, its free to look at how busy it is.

EA's shares took a 50% loss just after the release of SWTOR, coincidence or not?

 Shares are based on expectations. Not comparitive profit.

Just to chime in on this, although SWTOR flopped in the sense of coming nowhere near WoW, it does have more paying subscribers than EVE. Money is indeed with Themeparks. Rift is another example of a themepark (well made one at that) having more paying subs than EVE.

Eve has done remarkedly well for what it is, its freedom of choice is fantastic, but the spaceship instead of a toon is very niche indeed.

Take the same model that EvE uses, but apply it to a world with toons and i've no doubt it would be a phenomenal success.

No doubt has EVE done amaizingly well for what it is. The fact remains that although sanboxes are amaizing, they are indeed a niche market in the MMO world. If I was a developer betting my company on an MMO, I would go for what most people want to play, which is a themepark.

I really doubt it's the developers behind the current trend of recycling themeparks, but those that provide the funds. They want to see the numbers and of course the biggest is WoW, so that's what gets made, because they made the most.

It's especially true in the economic times we've found ourselves in, banks are very reluctant to fund something different and potentially risky, but most of us gamers know a well made sandbox will be very popular, providing funds for a long time after, not just for the first few months like a themepark does.

  doodphace

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1719

3/21/13 11:57:10 AM#160
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by jfoytek
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by jfoytek

SWTOR at its peak has 1.7M subs its now below 1M over a 700K drop...  But yes thats still alot of subscriptions, minor problem the game costed over 400M to make meaning it hasnt turned a profit yet... and Runescapes 8.5M subscriptions at peak wont be touched by SWTOR anytime soon nor ever!

 

The $400 mil rumour is just that, a rumour. SWTOR probably still has about 1 mil subscribers, based on server loads and general activity. Each of those paying $15 a month.  That combined with the box sales and cash shop sales would have more than paid for the development costs by now.

SWG had less than 200k subscribers by the time they tried the NGE which everyone blames for the death of the game, but really the game was dying well before that.

Just face it, even the most popular sandbox - EVE - cannot compete with one of the most generic and bland themeparks - SWTOR.  Why would people throw money at that? When they can make something bland and generic with a good IP and get SWTOR numbers?

SWTOR is now free to play and they do not say if the remaining active subscriptions are paying so its very likely a large chunk of that remaining subscriber base is paying 0....  And no the 400M is not a rumor

And FYI it would take 1M Subs at 15 per month for 24 months to = 360M  So two years of Sub fee's at the 1M active sub level to break even

 1) It was a rumour. It has never been confirmed anywhere.

2) Most of the players are subscribing, the game is set up that way. If you don't subscribe at max level (which is still very active) then you end up paying more than a subscription.

3) They had about 2 mil to 1.7 mil subs for the first 6 months. Add the box fee on top. So yeah no.  

 

For the record, I don't play the game or have any interest in it. But if you think it is unprofitable you are incredibly delusional. Go log into the game, its free to look at how busy it is.

EA's shares took a 50% loss just after the release of SWTOR, coincidence or not?

 Shares are based on expectations. Not comparitive profit.

Just to chime in on this, although SWTOR flopped in the sense of coming nowhere near WoW, it does have more paying subscribers than EVE. Money is indeed with Themeparks. Rift is another example of a themepark (well made one at that) having more paying subs than EVE.

Eve has done remarkedly well for what it is, its freedom of choice is fantastic, but the spaceship instead of a toon is very niche indeed.

Take the same model that EvE uses, but apply it to a world with toons and i've no doubt it would be a phenomenal success.

No doubt has EVE done amaizingly well for what it is. The fact remains that although sanboxes are amaizing, they are indeed a niche market in the MMO world. If I was a developer betting my company on an MMO, I would go for what most people want to play, which is a themepark.

I really doubt it's the developers behind the current trend of recycling themeparks, but those that provide the funds. They want to see the numbers and of course the biggest is WoW, so that's what gets made, because they made the most.

It's especially true in the economic times we've found ourselves in, banks are very reluctant to fund something different and potentially risky, but most of us gamers know a well made sandbox will be very popular, providing funds for a long time after, not just for the first few months like a themepark does.

EVE is a well made themepark, and at its peak has 500k subs (lower than most "flopped themeparks"). SWG was a themepark, and started dieing quickly after WoW was released, thus implemented the NGE.

Sandboxes are good, but a niche market.

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