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General Discussion  » WHO said it couldn't be done?

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95 posts found
  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2640

110100100

3/19/13 8:59:44 PM#61


Originally posted by colddog04

 

I think there are a lot of people that want the things you list. I personally view this as a step in the right direction, but still find the race selection overly restrictive. I'm not going to let is disuede from playing the game though.


people want this game to change to a sandbox and it just isn't going to happen, no amount of complaining is going to change that.

to me, the racial lock is the most concerning aspect of this game overall, much more than simply not being able to explore an entire PVE world with one character, especially if each area is huge with tons of areas to explore already.

but i mainly see it as a problem for large guilds who all have to roll the same three races in order to play together.

  Yyrkoon_PoM

Novice Member

Joined: 9/27/12
Posts: 150

3/19/13 9:04:22 PM#62

I am not sure we can reliably say why the change was made (unless you are on the dev team) . Games change all the time and it is the small print everytime you log into any MMO "Your gameplay experience may change at any time" or something to that effect.

I would not be surprised if the change was made after some executive checked out the play test and said why can't I go to zone X if I am a nord? Next thing you know some email marked important gets sent around the house and then all hell breaks loose and the change is made.  I am not saying that the Zenimax doesn't read boards and figure out what the pulse of the people is, but to say that is the only reason the change was made may not be entirely accurate.  I've seen a company flush hundred of thousands of $ worth of work down the drain because a VP did not like the way it looked.

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2640

110100100

3/19/13 9:16:31 PM#63


Originally posted by Yyrkoon_PoM
I am not sure we can reliably say why the change was made (unless you are on the dev team) . Games change all the time and it is the small print everytime you log into any MMO "Your gameplay experience may change at any time" or something to that effect.

I would not be surprised if the change was made after some executive checked out the play test and said why can't I go to zone X if I am a nord? Next thing you know some email marked important gets sent around the house and then all hell breaks loose and the change is made.  I am not saying that the Zenimax doesn't read boards and figure out what the pulse of the people is, but to say that is the only reason the change was made may not be entirely accurate.  I've seen a company flush hundred of thousands of $ worth of work down the drain because a VP did not like the way it looked.


i am not so sure this is them "giving in to whiners" as much as them figuring out a way to keep people playing at max level other than PVE raiding and cyrodiil pvp.

i think if implemented correctly, this could be very cool. lets assume that it is a shard just for high level players and you cannot see the lower level enemy players running around.

they could put in quests that have you raid towns with higher level enemy faction NPC's defending as well as have high level pvp for the people that choose it in their "survey"

it would also add to "realm pride" if you can go to your own areas and help defend from those players as well.

what always gets me is people read one answer from a dev then automatically start complaining that its a stupid idea without knowing what exactly they are going to implement and how fun it will be.

this could actually become a very innovated and fun endgame feature and i am interested to see how it turns out.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3463

3/19/13 9:20:42 PM#64

I have been thinking of this announcement and I have to say of all the compermises they could make to keep DAoC model intact and at the same time give TES fans the ability to go anywhere, this has to be the best option they could have done. Not only does it keep PvP focused on the AvA map and let PvE players have their space but it also gives PvE players 2 whole areas just for end game content. How often do you hear, "You know whats wrong with this game? To much elder game!!!"

If they can pull this off it could be the PvE Cyrodiil. Taking out outpost and small towns in the border area could be for solo and team content. Taking out the leader of a faction could be a 40 man raid. Think about you and 40 of your friends taking out Jorunn The Skald-King. That could be really fun!!!! I hope thats what they are shootng for because IMO that could take faction pride to a whole new level even DAoC did not do!!!!

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

3/19/13 9:28:10 PM#65
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

gives PvE players 2 whole areas just for end game content. How often do you hear, "You know whats wrong with this game? To much elder game!!!" 

That was a brilliant move on their part.

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

3/19/13 10:45:38 PM#66

I thought Paul Sage said in an interview just today "Well, we want raiding to give good gear, because, well, that's the point of raiding right so you can get good gear" and laughed because he was talking about how you can craft great gear.

 

I thought there was already discussion of heroic type dungeons and Raids? They've used the term raid multiple times, and I assume they are smart enough to know "raiding with your guild" isnt a 4 person dungeon.

 

It sounds like this game is doing a great job of making the leveling experience memorable/not a drag, and also focusing on end-game. They said "Max Level is where things really open up" so I assume they want raiding/PvP to be a big thing. And for those who dont like either, they can just explore the other factions and quest up there and do what they want.

 

They arent stupid. At the end of the day this is an MMO. There will be raids as they've said. No good end-game = no longevtivity.  And if its Subscription pay to play, its the hardcore that will play the longest.

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

3/20/13 12:03:02 AM#67
Originally posted by hMJem

It sounds like this game is doing a great job of making the leveling experience memorable/not a drag, and also focusing on end-game. They said "Max Level is where things really open up" so I assume they want raiding/PvP to be a big thing. And for those who dont like either, they can just explore the other factions and quest up there and do what they want.

 It does open have potential.  They could add world PvP objectives, quests and a whole slew of minor factions to support.  Alternative activities in addition to raiding and RvR can be a great thing.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15596

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

3/20/13 1:41:36 AM#68
Originally posted by colddog04

He's referring to the people that were against them doing anything to open up the game. He actually made a thread that proposed to open up the world somewhat using a similar design as what they chose. A few the of fans of the game were vehemently against the idea to the point that they were saying anyone that would like to see the game changed were being disrespectful to the developers and were limiting their freedom or some rubbish. Some were even ranting about how utterly stupid the idea was and attempted to prove why (but came up very short).

 

I doubt you'll see any threads about how bad this decision was, however. Most likely, after today, they'll just never speak of it again.

 

I think there are a lot of people that want the things you list. I personally view this as a step in the right direction, but still find the race selection overly restrictive. I'm not going to let is disuede from playing the game though.

The thing is the Op's suggestion had little point, that's what (as you said it earlier) he was "blasted for by fanboys". His idea and another's were simply features that allowed the ability to see lands yet do little within them. That is not similar to what they are doing here, they're bringing harder versions of the content into play at 50, that's a huge difference.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  3/20/13 4:38:27 AM#69
Originally posted by cronius77
this was done just to appaise the crybabies about being locked to a factional zone. Its a decent compromise , but in the end those babies will still be crying like they do in every single game they play. There is people in the thread already crying more about it isnt enough . Games need to stick to their guns more and stop listening to the vocal minority on forums.

You expect to be taken seriously with posts like this?

By your own logic - you are a 'crybaby' 'whining' about those of us pleased with the compromise!

I am pretty much THE most vocal person on this issue on these forums - and I am quite satisfied with the balanced response to widespread concerns they have taken - ergo, no more 'crying'.

In fact - I congratulate Zenimax on seeing the wood for the trees and making a change to remedy what the IP fans widely saw as a fundamental problem.

The main problem in my opinion (and in many other peoples opinions) is now being tackled and we are mostly reasonable enough to be satisifed with it.

So don't put words in our mouths...

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  3/20/13 4:43:50 AM#70
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by colddog04

He's referring to the people that were against them doing anything to open up the game. He actually made a thread that proposed to open up the world somewhat using a similar design as what they chose. A few the of fans of the game were vehemently against the idea to the point that they were saying anyone that would like to see the game changed were being disrespectful to the developers and were limiting their freedom or some rubbish. Some were even ranting about how utterly stupid the idea was and attempted to prove why (but came up very short).

 

I doubt you'll see any threads about how bad this decision was, however. Most likely, after today, they'll just never speak of it again.

 

I think there are a lot of people that want the things you list. I personally view this as a step in the right direction, but still find the race selection overly restrictive. I'm not going to let is disuede from playing the game though.

The thing is the Op's suggestion had little point, that's what (as you said it earlier) he was "blasted for by fanboys". His idea and another's were simply features that allowed the ability to see lands yet do little within them. That is not similar to what they are doing here, they're bringing harder versions of the content into play at 50, that's a huge difference.

The suggestion on that thread was an attempt at a compromise position - not exactly what I wanted. It was however rather more than you are suggesting Distopia. I wanted content in thiose areas as well - even if it was more limited that that available to faction members.

This was also done to see what the arguments could possibly be against a small change from the 'stuck records' who didn't want it becasue of a preconceived notion that anything done would 'ruin' their game...

It is nice to see Zenimax being creative with their megaserver technology and giving everyone at least sme of what they want on both sides of the argument.

Some of the 'con' crowd simply don't understand it makes no difference to the 3-way PvP they have been blindly defending - there is already a locked post on this with one such blinkered and misaimed argument.

Anyway, as I said, this is a great change and if done as they propose it to be, will add positively to the game and detract nothing.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  3/20/13 4:47:50 AM#71
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

I have been thinking of this announcement and I have to say of all the compermises they could make to keep DAoC model intact and at the same time give TES fans the ability to go anywhere, this has to be the best option they could have done. Not only does it keep PvP focused on the AvA map and let PvE players have their space but it also gives PvE players 2 whole areas just for end game content. How often do you hear, "You know whats wrong with this game? To much elder game!!!"

If they can pull this off it could be the PvE Cyrodiil. Taking out outpost and small towns in the border area could be for solo and team content. Taking out the leader of a faction could be a 40 man raid. Think about you and 40 of your friends taking out Jorunn The Skald-King. That could be really fun!!!! I hope thats what they are shootng for because IMO that could take faction pride to a whole new level even DAoC did not do!!!!

Nice to see you on board Nan - I agree - their solution is well thought out and has great potential.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19094

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

3/20/13 4:48:31 AM#72
While the compromise seems like a good one, it still won't appease the people who wanted to play the entire game as the race of their choice and still be able to game with their friends or guildmates. (well, not until level 50)

So some people still will be unhappy but there probably isn't a good way to make the changes they are looking for.

Arrogant, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  asrlohz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 663

Alea iacta est, beloved Doomsayers.

3/20/13 4:52:23 AM#73
Originally posted by Caliburn101

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/19/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-paul-sage/

Read it and amaze yourselves doomsayers...

Who knows - you might even be moved enough to say you were wrong..?

... I doubt it of course - but it would be nice to prove me wrong eh!? :)

Fantastic - looks like Zenimax have ears after all. There is a rumour of a delay to launch until March 2014 - perhaps t make the necessary changes?... but that doesn't matter either way.

The TES fans get to eventually explore everywhere with one toon at level 50 and the PvP fans get their unsullied 3-way goodness and they sit next to each other without a problem...

... I couldn't be more satisifed about the content of this interview.

Hello.

Thank you all for your support. Since you already made a post about this I figured I might as well quote you, zealous defender of the faith. Whilst our petition was small, there were several others who succeeded at peaking Zenimax's attention. I'm not sure if we had anything to do with it, but we might have had some impact.

I've spent this morning laughing at all the "doomsayers" and whilst I'm not sure if the game will be any good I am sure that even then it will be worth my money. Even SWTOR was worthwhile just to explore Tatooine. I hope to see you all in game, especially those who were valiant enough to defend our cause, and not claim that nothing could be changed. We proved them wrong.

 

Cheers! And once again, thank you for your support. Those involved will know what I've been speaking about.

  Alber_gamer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/08/12
Posts: 473

3/20/13 4:59:17 AM#74

After the Diablo3/Guild Wars2 failures, overhyping a game before anyone has played it based on the words of developpers that obviously are trying as hard as they can to sell you their game.

 

WHO said it couldn't be done?

My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15596

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

3/20/13 5:23:57 AM#75
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by colddog04

He's referring to the people that were against them doing anything to open up the game. He actually made a thread that proposed to open up the world somewhat using a similar design as what they chose. A few the of fans of the game were vehemently against the idea to the point that they were saying anyone that would like to see the game changed were being disrespectful to the developers and were limiting their freedom or some rubbish. Some were even ranting about how utterly stupid the idea was and attempted to prove why (but came up very short).

 

I doubt you'll see any threads about how bad this decision was, however. Most likely, after today, they'll just never speak of it again.

 

I think there are a lot of people that want the things you list. I personally view this as a step in the right direction, but still find the race selection overly restrictive. I'm not going to let is disuede from playing the game though.

The thing is the Op's suggestion had little point, that's what (as you said it earlier) he was "blasted for by fanboys". His idea and another's were simply features that allowed the ability to see lands yet do little within them. That is not similar to what they are doing here, they're bringing harder versions of the content into play at 50, that's a huge difference.

The suggestion on that thread was an attempt at a compromise position - not exactly what I wanted. It was however rather more than you are suggesting Distopia. I wanted content in thiose areas as well - even if it was more limited that that available to faction members.

This was also done to see what the arguments could possibly be against a small change from the 'stuck records' who didn't want it becasue of a preconceived notion that anything done would 'ruin' their game...

It is nice to see Zenimax being creative with their megaserver technology and giving everyone at least sme of what they want on both sides of the argument.

Some of the 'con' crowd simply don't understand it makes no difference to the 3-way PvP they have been blindly defending - there is already a locked post on this with one such blinkered and misaimed argument.

Anyway, as I said, this is a great change and if done as they propose it to be, will add positively to the game and detract nothing.

As I said in your as well as Sap's threads, your ideas weren't really a fix for what those who were complaining about the faction lock issues disliked. While this isn't exactly that, as there's still a wall to traverse to reach it, it's there to experience with one toon now, this is in tune with the fix that was wanted. If I remember correctly your suggestion had some content, but it was more on the side of exploration (special vendors and the like, loot to find, etc) rather than seeing what the other side had to offer.

 Most responses to your topic(s) were along the lines of "it seems like a lot to ask for", which suggests to me people simply didn't expect them to listen. You act as though everyone tried to throw you under a bus. There's a common theme for many gamers, they don't like developers attempting to please all, which is understandable. Things have gone horribly wrong in the past due to this.

(not directed at OP, but later replies)

This is the thing i hate most about forums in general, these types of victimization in the face of victory posts. No one is victimizing you, at worst they're just cynical due to what many perceive as a defunct genre, that's lost it's way. With dev teams that care for nothing but money and never listen. Many of you seemed to feel this way about Zenimax if i recall correctly. There's been a lot said by everyone over the last few months, if everyone turned around and made a thread about what they got right this forum would be nothing but that.

 

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6509

"I fight so you don't have to."

3/20/13 5:36:39 AM#76

It is a very good change indeed but not the ideal change (imo). It would be better that they open up the world for PvP as well and not just PvE, but on separate PvP servers (to avoid crying from PvE'ers). Probably their so called "mega server" technology would not allow that but for me that would be more ideal as PvP is the natural endgame for me and being restricted in just one zone for that, kind of cheapens the experience.

But still, a good change.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3463

3/20/13 7:53:34 AM#77
Originally posted by Yamota

It is a very good change indeed but not the ideal change (imo). It would be better that they open up the world for PvP as well and not just PvE, but on separate PvP servers (to avoid crying from PvE'ers). Probably their so called "mega server" technology would not allow that but for me that would be more ideal as PvP is the natural endgame for me and being restricted in just one zone for that, kind of cheapens the experience.

But still, a good change.

That would have been the mistake. What makes PvP so great with the DAoC model is its all focused on one map. That way you have lrage scale battles that tend to be more often epic. Also what about the pure PvEers? They should have their space as well to play.

  Buccaneer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/31/07
Posts: 433

3/20/13 7:55:39 AM#78

Reading the article, it looks like this is being implemented for the solo player to have something to do when they reach endgame. IMO this is a good thing.

According to Sage, this content is the endgame for a solo player or someone who plays with just a friend or two. Since the Elder Scrolls franchise has been a single-player affair up until this point, it's wise to include scads of content for that audience. It's also ideal for the player who wants to soak up all of the lore and learn the history of Tamriel 1000 years before the events of Skyrim. With each alliance area containing 120-150 hours of content, there's a lot of exploring to do.


http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/19/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-paul-sage/

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3463

3/20/13 8:08:48 AM#79
Originally posted by Buccaneer

Reading the article, it looks like this is being implemented for the solo player to have something to do when they reach endgame. IMO this is a good thing.

According to Sage, this content is the endgame for a solo player or someone who plays with just a friend or two. Since the Elder Scrolls franchise has been a single-player affair up until this point, it's wise to include scads of content for that audience. It's also ideal for the player who wants to soak up all of the lore and learn the history of Tamriel 1000 years before the events of Skyrim. With each alliance area containing 120-150 hours of content, there's a lot of exploring to do.


http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/19/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-paul-sage/

I hope not, that would be a shadow of what something like this should be. There should be solo and team content and also PvE raids on capitial cities where taking out the leaders of a faction could be 40 man raids. Should be more then just 2 more maps of quests.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5252

3/20/13 8:26:00 AM#80

Surprise, and, in a good way for a change, after reading about how they are going to handle the end game, by opening up the other areas to PVE gameplay at 50, that has to be, imo, probably the biggest improvement i've read about for the game, i totally agree that the PVP segment should be limited to Cyrodill only, that now you will be able to join friends in opposing factions for PVE dungeons etc, is just HUGE  

 They have now given me a reason to want to play the game, if they keep this up then imo, it could be a big hit when it releases.

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