Originally posted by TheOctagon

If I went to a car dealer and spent my money on a car, and the car turned out to be a lemon, I'd want my money back.

I wouldn't wait a day, week or month to see if they could fix it. If the car was a lemon, it will always be thought of as a lemon, and I would never go back to that car dealer again.

Much like EA is thought of, and boycotted now. Which is why their up for sale.

You're comparing an 'instant' realization to one that is 'likely' to get better. I don't think it's comparable at all; you cannot bring your car back for updates and patches once you're off the lot. I can see EA's perspective; yea, we'll refund, then when we iron out the kinks, you'll purchase again, get pissed and whine for a refund again... "No".  Or maybe you'll stay for a while and enjoy the franchise. Either way, a fickle gamer will whine until someone get's behind them. 

A chargeback is an accusation of fraud in the financial world. If that is how you feel then chargeback away, but be prepared for the repercussions.

Any self-respecting service provider will cut off service after a chargeback. Sony, Comcast, Dish, they all do it. It's standard procedure.

Originally posted by Psychow

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by Psychow

The chargeback abouse needs to stop. 

Returning a defective product isn't abuse, it's justice.

 

Oh, I wasn't aware the CD was faulty or the digital key didn't work. Usually customers ask for a replacement instead of a credit card chargeback, at least the ones who are legitimatly trying to buy the game so they can play.

 

Don't be obtuse.  The software is the product, the CD is merely the media.  If either is defective, then the customer is well within their rights to demand a refund.  Do some research on consumer's rights and stop acting like a corporate shill.

Originally posted by Instigator-Jones

Originally posted by TheOctagon

If I went to a car dealer and spent my money on a car, and the car turned out to be a lemon, I'd want my money back.

I wouldn't wait a day, week or month to see if they could fix it. If the car was a lemon, it will always be thought of as a lemon, and I would never go back to that car dealer again.

Much like EA is thought of, and boycotted now. Which is why their up for sale.

You're comparing an 'instant' realization to one that is 'likely' to get better. I don't think it's comparable at all; you cannot bring your car back for updates and patches once you're off the lot. I can see EA's perspective; yea, we'll refund, then when we iron out the kinks, you'll purchase again, get pissed and whine for a refund again... "No".  Or maybe you'll stay for a while and enjoy the franchise. Either way, a fickle gamer will whine until someone get's behind them. 

I don't understand this prevailing attitude from the player base to excuse shoddy programming from these gaming companies.  This kind of issue was never given such tolerance when single player games were released in such a state in the past, yet the sheer number of apologists today is mind boggling.

Originally posted by Boudewijns

have they sink that low?

no wonder i banned EA games for years, now u know why

http://www.gamechup.com/ea-refuses-to-refund-user-for-simcity-threatens-account-ban/

 Kinda expected.

Asking EA for refund = asking a pennycounter if you can have a few coins

Originally posted by Vorthanio

Don't be obtuse.  The software is the product, the CD is merely the media.  If either is defective, then the customer is well within their rights to demand a refund.  Do some research on consumer's rights and stop acting like a corporate shill.

Are we entitled to a refund every time servers crap out in an MMORPG?

Would any MMO offer up a refund due to such an issue?

When a server goes down for fixes does that render the software that connects to it defective?

Lets forget about EA and "evil companies" for a second and look at the actual issue being discussed.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Vorthanio

Don't be obtuse.  The software is the product, the CD is merely the media.  If either is defective, then the customer is well within their rights to demand a refund.  Do some research on consumer's rights and stop acting like a corporate shill.

Are we entitled to a refund every time servers crap out in an MMORPG?

Would any MMO offer up a refund due to such an issue?

When a server goes down for fixes does that render the software that connects to it defective?

Lets forget about EA and "evil companies" for a second and look at the actual issue being discussed.

Singleplayer game with DRM that forces you to stay connected, sorry but if they can't manage to launch a functional product they should expect demands for refunds. It does not matter that some are able to play when the portion of the userbase affected is not in any way a minority. It was their duty to have a damn near perfect server on their side and make sure everything could only be the user's fault and that is not the case.

Originally posted by Kothoses
Once people learn a charge back which is the equivalent of ringing your bank up and claiming credit card theft/fraud does not equate to a refund we will have less of these type of sensationalist posts.

Actually them having a faulty product that doesn't work and then refusing to give you a refund equates to a scam and you have a right to say this is fraud.  It is fraud.  You pay to play a game, if you cannot get the service you paid for, at the time you pay for said service, then it equates to a fraud.

I don't pay to be a beta tester.

Someone else mentioned they couldn't look online for gameplay videos?  You can verify that a game is actually playable and what you want before you play it.  Presuming people are able to play it.  Wait for a game to have a demo, play the demo.

Nevertheless, I still side with the people who buy a game and cannot play the game.  You have a right as a customer to do a chargeback as a final resort when they refuse to refund a game you cannot play.   I also can understand EA banning your account, they don't want you to have access to a game that you didn't pay for.

If this affected more than one game maybe not the best idea to do a charge back, if you still want to play those other games on the account.

Considering how much of a scam this game is, and it IS a scam, equal at least to WarZ, chargeback might be the ethical thing to do.

And dont care if you have games on Origin, just say byebye to EA forever and cut our losses.

Put our money were our mouth is so to speak.

If you payed EA that is.

My key was like 45$ on greenmangaming and I am not sure I blame them for this.

To be honest, I mostly blame myself.

Not counting the server problems, the game is not even broken, it never existed.

Read this!

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by Instigator-Jones

Originally posted by TheOctagon

If I went to a car dealer and spent my money on a car, and the car turned out to be a lemon, I'd want my money back.

I wouldn't wait a day, week or month to see if they could fix it. If the car was a lemon, it will always be thought of as a lemon, and I would never go back to that car dealer again.

Much like EA is thought of, and boycotted now. Which is why their up for sale.

You're comparing an 'instant' realization to one that is 'likely' to get better. I don't think it's comparable at all; you cannot bring your car back for updates and patches once you're off the lot. I can see EA's perspective; yea, we'll refund, then when we iron out the kinks, you'll purchase again, get pissed and whine for a refund again... "No".  Or maybe you'll stay for a while and enjoy the franchise. Either way, a fickle gamer will whine until someone get's behind them. 

I don't understand this prevailing attitude from the player base to excuse shoddy programming from these gaming companies.  This kind of issue was never given such tolerance when single player games were released in such a state in the past, yet the sheer number of apologists today is mind boggling.

Are you sure? You seem old enough to remember the early days of PC gaming (circa 1988-1995) when almost every PC game released with some gamebreaking issue or another, and you almost always had to contact the manufacturer and request they mail you patch floppy disks or CD's in order to complete your game.

Many games did not run on certain rigs, and I don't recall many manufacturers offering refunds if it didn't work on your box.

Case in point, I bought Ultima IV back in 1988 for the PC and I couldn't get it to go past the opening part where it asked you quesitons for your alignment.  Called Orgin (not part of EA back then) for help and when they found out I owned a PC "Clone" computer and not a real IBM brand PC they said there was nothing they could do and I was out of luck.  Fortuanately game stores still took back software so I was able to return it.

There were many such occasions where my gameplay stopped until I got patched, or managed to get through to Tech support to figure out how to properly set up my high memory regions (remember those days folks?)

Even as late as 2002 I was trying to play DAOC and couldn't get it launch, called support and they asked if I had one of the "10" approved video cards that they supported.  I said no, they said, you are out of luck.  No refunds offered and by then, the stores had stopped doing it too.  So I went out and bought  one of the new video cards.

And you may also recall, we used to have to deal with copy protection disks or elaborate password schemes that sometimes blocked our access to the game until we resolve them, again no refunds.

Point is. you may have to be a bit patient and wait until they get all the kinks worked out before you'll be able to play, even if it's a single player game.   This really isn't anything new, sometimes it takes time to get into the game, even a single player one if you are on a PC title. (Consoles have spoiled too many people it seems)

Heck, I remember when Aion launched back in 2008, I wasn't able to play it for over 2 weeks, all servers had over 1000 person queues every night when I logged in.

But eventually it settled down and I got to play to my hearts content.

Far too much drama over a failure in patience and a "need" for instant gratification.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by Instigator-Jones

Originally posted by TheOctagon

If I went to a car dealer and spent my money on a car, and the car turned out to be a lemon, I'd want my money back.

I wouldn't wait a day, week or month to see if they could fix it. If the car was a lemon, it will always be thought of as a lemon, and I would never go back to that car dealer again.

Much like EA is thought of, and boycotted now. Which is why their up for sale.

You're comparing an 'instant' realization to one that is 'likely' to get better. I don't think it's comparable at all; you cannot bring your car back for updates and patches once you're off the lot. I can see EA's perspective; yea, we'll refund, then when we iron out the kinks, you'll purchase again, get pissed and whine for a refund again... "No".  Or maybe you'll stay for a while and enjoy the franchise. Either way, a fickle gamer will whine until someone get's behind them. 

I don't understand this prevailing attitude from the player base to excuse shoddy programming from these gaming companies.  This kind of issue was never given such tolerance when single player games were released in such a state in the past, yet the sheer number of apologists today is mind boggling.

Are you sure? You seem old enough to remember the early days of PC gaming (circa 1988-1995) when almost every PC game released with some gamebreaking issue or another, and you almost always had to contact the manufacturer and request they mail you patch floppy disks or CD's in order to complete your game.

Many games did not run on certain rigs, and I don't recall many manufacturers offering refunds if it didn't work on your box.

Case in point, I bought Ultima IV back in 1988 for the PC and I couldn't get it to go past the opening part where it asked you quesitons for your alignment.  Called Orgin (not part of EA back then) for help and when they found out I owned a PC "Clone" computer and not a real IBM brand PC they said there was nothing they could do and I was out of luck.  Fortuanately game stores still took back software so I was able to return it.

There were many such occasions where my gameplay stopped until I got patched, or managed to get through to Tech support to figure out how to properly set up my high memory regions (remember those days folks?)

Even as late as 2002 I was trying to play DAOC and couldn't get it launch, called support and they asked if I had one of the "10" approved video cards that they supported.  I said no, they said, you are out of luck.  No refunds offered and by then, the stores had stopped doing it too.  So I went out and bought  one of the new video cards.

And you may also recall, we used to have to deal with copy protection disks or elaborate password schemes that sometimes blocked our access to the game until we resolve them, again no refunds.

Point is. you may have to be a bit patient and wait until they get all the kinks worked out before you'll be able to play, even if it's a single player game.   This really isn't anything new, sometimes it takes time to get into the game, even a single player one if you are on a PC title. (Consoles have spoiled too many people it seems)

Heck, I remember when Aion launched back in 2008, I wasn't able to play it for over 2 weeks, all servers had over 1000 person queues every night when I logged in.

But eventually it settled down and I got to play to my hearts content.

Far too much drama over a failure in patience and a "need" for instant gratification.

 

I distinctly remember being able to return games for a refund if they didn't work correctly or if they failed to work on your computer configuration.  I did this quite often when I used to buy those old games at the then local Hastings Records.  Back then, gaming media wasn't afraid to bash a buggy game and it usually resulted in low sales and an immediate trip to the 99 cent bargain bin.

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by Instigator-Jones

Originally posted by TheOctagon

If I went to a car dealer and spent my money on a car, and the car turned out to be a lemon, I'd want my money back.

I wouldn't wait a day, week or month to see if they could fix it. If the car was a lemon, it will always be thought of as a lemon, and I would never go back to that car dealer again.

Much like EA is thought of, and boycotted now. Which is why their up for sale.

You're comparing an 'instant' realization to one that is 'likely' to get better. I don't think it's comparable at all; you cannot bring your car back for updates and patches once you're off the lot. I can see EA's perspective; yea, we'll refund, then when we iron out the kinks, you'll purchase again, get pissed and whine for a refund again... "No".  Or maybe you'll stay for a while and enjoy the franchise. Either way, a fickle gamer will whine until someone get's behind them. 

I don't understand this prevailing attitude from the player base to excuse shoddy programming from these gaming companies.  This kind of issue was never given such tolerance when single player games were released in such a state in the past, yet the sheer number of apologists today is mind boggling.

Are you sure? You seem old enough to remember the early days of PC gaming (circa 1988-1995) when almost every PC game released with some gamebreaking issue or another, and you almost always had to contact the manufacturer and request they mail you patch floppy disks or CD's in order to complete your game.

Many games did not run on certain rigs, and I don't recall many manufacturers offering refunds if it didn't work on your box.

Case in point, I bought Ultima IV back in 1988 for the PC and I couldn't get it to go past the opening part where it asked you quesitons for your alignment.  Called Orgin (not part of EA back then) for help and when they found out I owned a PC "Clone" computer and not a real IBM brand PC they said there was nothing they could do and I was out of luck.  Fortuanately game stores still took back software so I was able to return it.

There were many such occasions where my gameplay stopped until I got patched, or managed to get through to Tech support to figure out how to properly set up my high memory regions (remember those days folks?)

Even as late as 2002 I was trying to play DAOC and couldn't get it launch, called support and they asked if I had one of the "10" approved video cards that they supported.  I said no, they said, you are out of luck.  No refunds offered and by then, the stores had stopped doing it too.  So I went out and bought  one of the new video cards.

And you may also recall, we used to have to deal with copy protection disks or elaborate password schemes that sometimes blocked our access to the game until we resolve them, again no refunds.

Point is. you may have to be a bit patient and wait until they get all the kinks worked out before you'll be able to play, even if it's a single player game.   This really isn't anything new, sometimes it takes time to get into the game, even a single player one if you are on a PC title. (Consoles have spoiled too many people it seems)

Heck, I remember when Aion launched back in 2008, I wasn't able to play it for over 2 weeks, all servers had over 1000 person queues every night when I logged in.

But eventually it settled down and I got to play to my hearts content.

Far too much drama over a failure in patience and a "need" for instant gratification.

 

I distinctly remember being able to return games for a refund if they didn't work correctly or if they failed to work on your computer configuration.  I did this quite often when I used to buy those old games at the then local Hastings Records.  Back then, gaming media wasn't afraid to bash a buggy game and it usually resulted in low sales and an immediate trip to the 99 cent bargain bin.

For a short period of time, stores did do that, not very long though because it ended up in people buying the game install/ copy it and return it. Especially for games like MMO's where this.. trick ended up with someone having the game for free and stores having to pay having to pay another version for an angry customer who ended up with a game with an used registration key.

Gues they where right about how piracy DID hurt us all in the end.

Originally posted by Boudewijns

have they sink that low?

no wonder i banned EA games for years, now u know why

http://www.gamechup.com/ea-refuses-to-refund-user-for-simcity-threatens-account-ban/

 Now people can properly understand why Coorperate policies need to be looked at. It's to take money from a unsuspecting person without that person having any knowledge on the state of the product. I'm 100% in favor of taking down coorperations just like EA. 

While I know the press release states that they will allow people to ASK for refunds that does not mean that people be able to obtain them. It's that complete bullshit that allows coorperate america to scam peoples money without fear of a lawsuit.

Originally posted by sacredfool

Originally posted by aleos

Cant find out you dont like a game until you buy it

 decide you dont like the game cant get a refund

 get a refund

 infuriate greed corp

 get nuked

 Games are fun. 

If you order a meal, take a bite and then realise you don't like it.... do you expect to get a refund? Or go to a cinema, walk out halfway trough the movie because you don't like it... do you expect a refund?

Obviously, if the meal is actually unedible because the food is rotten or te movie doesn't play then you have the right to expect a refund but in the games industry not many games are released unplayable. 

As someone who was a store manager of a video store for a decade, i can tell you many people actually think like this.  nothing makes you lose faith in humanity like being a retail manager and seeing the crap people try to get for free.

As for this case with EA, its a *very* grey area.  the game will likely be fine sooner rather than later, and EA will deliver the product promised they will just deliver it late.  I actually think something like 15% off the next purchase is fair compensation if things are normal within the next week or two.  if its a month out and no fix in sight, then yes...they should be refunding.

Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

 It's that complete bullshit that allows coorperate america to scam peoples money without fear of a lawsuit.

people scam corporate america just as much, and they sue like crazy.

For example, Blockbuster had a class action lawsuit in the early 00s because they charged excessive late fees, when the policy was on a board behind the counter plain as day for everyone to see, clearly spelling out how much your movie would be per day if it was late.  And Blockbuster actually settled it, so people got money strictly because they wouldnt own up to their own actions.  

Not that there arent bad corporations out there (Blockbuster certainly wasnt one of them) that try to scam the customers but Id say customers are far more guilty than corporations on average.  

And Im guilty too, Ive taken advantage of liberal return policies just because i could.

Originally posted by Psychow

Originally posted by Zekiah

It never ceases to amaze me how so many gamers will go down with the ship in defense of defective or incomplete products but in any other industry it wouldn't be put up with. I have yet to see someone ok with a Big Mac missing the meat patties and told they'll get it later.

No wonder these companies continually walk all over their customers and release the crap they do.

 

I have. "no meat on your burger? I'm terribly sorry, here...let me replace it for you. Sorry for the inconvenience."

 

OMG...the customer didn't go into a rage, call his bank and ask for a chargeback. He didn't take photos of the burger and post them on-line. He just wanted his order to be right so he could eat his lunch...

Except that the replacement "burger" has no meat on it either, in fact it's just an empty box...

Originally posted by Psychow
If I was a rep and some punk called me a "liar" like that kid did in the OP's link...no refund. Have a nice day.

Even if that "punk" (your customer) is right? You have to ask for a refund according to policy only to receive the answer that they can't issue refunds, then that's a really great way of giving someone the finger.

It is unlawful to knowingly sell an unfit product.I think there is a definite case for the product being unfit.

it would also be considered BLACKMAIl if they are threatening accounts that have money invested in them,over refund issues.It is well within your right to ask for a refund on an unfit product,heck it is your right,even if it's an ok product.

Really the point that should be made,is these guys over at EA are known criminals.From stealing money from their employees[settled at 15 mil,but was far more],to trying to monopolize and rise the price of NFL football games through exclusive deals.They also settled on a lawsuit over them stealing away the Call of Duty guys from Activision.

These guys are true blue criminals,nobody should be supporting them and this site if so willing to uphold NDA's,should also not be supporting developers that are criminals.You try stealing 50 bucks from your employer and see what happens,well they stole MILLIONs,which also goes in hand with paying less taxes,so also stealing from the governement.

Common word is that since that John guy took over the lead role,public relations were on the upside.Now that he is gone/stepped down,it looks like we might see a reverse into old habits,which labelled EA as the EVIL villain of Publishers.