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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Are you in favor of Battlegrounds?

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157 posts found
  MasahikoKobe

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/13
Posts: 51

3/18/13 5:04:03 PM#121
With such a lack of information in relative power between a day one player and a day 300 player, there is not enough information to support a BG either way. While it may be an enjoyable playstyle for some, if the focus of the game is to have large scale RvR between factions. The idea of BGs doesn't have a reason to exists in the game. If you are not going to play because the idea of no Thid, then you were never going to play the game in the first place as these things would not be there since it was not hinted in anyway. I personally don't feel the game need to cater to the niche of the niche in order to add a smaller battleground area for the idea of lower power levels.
  dynamicipftw

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/26/12
Posts: 216

3/18/13 7:58:06 PM#122
Originally posted by Odaman
Originally posted by dynamicipftw

 

Seriously? The twink problem (which was never a problem in DAoC btw) can be solved easily in a number of ways. Also you have the wrong idea of what handholding means.

 

 

Never a problem my ass. Buffbotted legendary using twinks would stomp people leveling like they're nothing. You apparently didn't play the game long enough to see twinks and 8mans (lol yes bg 8mans) roll over anyone who didn't do the same. You sound like the idiots who say it never split the population and that 12 people wouldn't make a difference in a fight when 8 people could kill 100. I'm done with this nonsense, watching people who have no idea wtf they're talking about make ridiculous claims about what never happened because they quit the game before it even had immunity timers =p

No /xp off command

+ No /rp off command

+ Level and RR cap in BGs

= Twink problem solved (see Uthgard)

Yes, it is THAT simple.

  rodingo

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1382

3/18/13 8:07:57 PM#123
I like battlegrounds becuase sometimes controlled PvP with objectives is better, imho, than just meandering around the open world looking for mindless action.  I like the concept of objectives and special mechanics that some battlegounds of various games have becuase it usually brings out a form of strategy, even for pugs.  That being said, I hope CU will take a stab at doing something a little different than what we have already seen such as control point or CTF.  I would still like to see a "payload" type of BG as seen in Team Fortress or Global Agenda though.

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  Aminita

Novice Member

Joined: 2/05/13
Posts: 8

3/19/13 9:17:23 AM#124

Battlegrounds  , like those in DAOC,  provide a  practice area for learning new characters, skills and grouping with your new character.  It also provides the opportunity to  Jump into the  game for a short period  of time,  without locking you down for 2-3 hours  if you  dont have that  window of opportunity.  Jumping into Big Boy rvr  with  a new and untried and  untested character 

doesnt  make you a lot of  friends and  hurts the  group dynamics  if you arent  familiar  with  it. 

Overall, varying  levels of BGs  allow  players to find a "comfort level" of playing to suit their skills and  needs, thus allowing for more people to enjoy the  game. 

  Ziftylrhavic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 223

3/19/13 11:29:11 AM#125

If you take the time to read my previous posts, you'll see i already countered these 3 argument

 

There is one about the new players not being alone vs veteran

 

There is one about the tutorial (that won't be handholding but teach the basics), and i can add than veteran will help complete the new player's knowledge

 

There is one about how you can find a lot of ways to have quick fun (gave only 2 example, but i'm sure we can find more with a little thinking)

 

Please read what has already been said before posting

  BowbowDAoC

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 482

3/19/13 12:32:25 PM#126

Something that i would be curious to see is some sort BG (not instanced) for newly made characters where you can't even group, where you can try your skills versus other players from other realms and test it. a "free-for-all" mini section of the map to gain your firsts few "levels" or points from progression, whatever you wanna call it.

Of course it would only give you a small idea of how to play your character, but it would be a good place to test or even change how you personalised your character at creation. once you leave the place, there s no turning back (unless delete and restart).

It could be a small island, and when you decide to leave the training area, you board a ship and it brings you on the actual land (in your realm part of the land of course).

 

Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR

  Ziftylrhavic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 223

3/19/13 12:49:42 PM#127

That's a good idea.

 

This island would be the tutorial, and that's where you would find the only safe zone with the capital city, the safe zone would have straw mannequin to test your positional skills as well as low level mobs to fight against something fighting back before trying to go for the other players

  Aminita

Novice Member

Joined: 2/05/13
Posts: 8

3/19/13 1:41:33 PM#128

Sorry Zifty, 

Dont  have the  time to go thru the  13  pages.. 

Then again,  you  said  that  you  have  countered  my perspective  by your previous  post.. 

I sure that your perspective is  better than mine.. 

 

 

  sweetdigs

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/11/03
Posts: 199

3/19/13 2:16:26 PM#129

No.  Battlegrounds are artificial.  All PvP combat in CU should occur on the real battlefields.

This isn't Arena PVP.

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

3/19/13 2:19:16 PM#130
Originally posted by sweetdigs

No.  Battlegrounds are artificial.  All PvP combat in CU should occur on the real battlefields.

This isn't Arena PVP.

I don't disagree, but i don't think you understand the concept of Battlegrounds people are talking about.

 

daoc bg's were nothing close to arena pvp. They were real battlefields for lower level characters.

I don't see it happening in a game where theres no level curve like daoc, but its possible to make work.

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  Aminita

Novice Member

Joined: 2/05/13
Posts: 8

3/19/13 2:25:28 PM#131

Well,  went thru and  read  the  posts.. 

Nope, dont think your perspective is any  better than mine Zifty..

just  different. 

I feel that a BG provides a place for a player  to enjoy rvr  at a slower  pace.. ther are times where Im just not 

up for full scale rvr,  

"Exploring' is not my idea of  fun  when I want to rvr. ...Hardly

Also.. improving my fighting skills.. On a straw DUMMY ??  LOL..  Honestly  hope you  were kidding. ..

BG's may not be Necessary,,,  but provide the player with a viable Alternative  to Big Boy  rvr. 

Some times I Ski the soft GREEN trails,  other times I love the Double Black Diamonds.. 

It come s down to having the  ability to Choose.. 

I LIKE  being  able to CHOOSE.. 

 

 

  Telondariel

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/10
Posts: 847

3/19/13 2:26:35 PM#132
Originally posted by Ziftylrhavic

If you take the time to read my previous posts, you'll see i already countered these 3 argument

 

There is one about the new players not being alone vs veteran

 

There is one about the tutorial (that won't be handholding but teach the basics), and i can add than veteran will help complete the new player's knowledge

 

There is one about how you can find a lot of ways to have quick fun (gave only 2 example, but i'm sure we can find more with a little thinking)

 

Please read what has already been said before posting

You posted opinion, not immutable fact.  Your opinion, on how you believe CU will play out and your views on if the BG's will work in that system.  This is a place to discuss ideas, not chastise and stifle because someone didn't pay attention to you.

  Telondariel

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/10
Posts: 847

3/19/13 2:32:12 PM#133
Originally posted by Aminita

Well,  went thru and  read  the  posts.. 

Nope, dont think your perspective is any  better than mine Zifty..

just  different. 

I feel that a BG provides a place for a player  to enjoy rvr  at a slower  pace.. ther are times where Im just not 

up for full scale rvr,  

"Exploring' is not my idea of  fun  when I want to rvr. ...Hardly

Also.. improving my fighting skills.. On a straw DUMMY ??  LOL..  Honestly  hope you  were kidding. ..

BG's may not be Necessary,,,  but provide the player with a viable Alternative  to Big Boy  rvr. 

Some times I Ski the soft GREEN trails,  other times I love the Double Black Diamonds.. 

It come s down to having the  ability to Choose.. 

I LIKE  being  able to CHOOSE.. 

 

 

^^ A lot of it boils down to this:  OPTIONS.

 

In DAoC, I certainly wasn't interested in the frontiers.  I wanted to RvR, just not in that scene.  The BG's were the perfect environment for me, and those that were like-minded.  It was a tighter map, not a huge vastness.  It was also a place of equality, in that people were roughly the same level and could only attain a limited couple RR's of minimal importance.  Every person has their own reason(s) why they went there, but the common element was that it was FUN

  Ziftylrhavic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 223

3/19/13 4:11:22 PM#134

Originally posted by Aminita

Sorry Zifty, 

Dont  have the  time to go thru the  13  pages.. 

Then again,  you  said  that  you  have  countered  my perspective  by your previous  post.. 

I sure that your perspective is  better than mine.. 

 

First, i'm not Zifty, i'm Zift. The name was already taken so i added my second name.

 

Second, i'm not saying than my perspective is better, i'm saying i already gave reasons and examples as to why your argument aren't valid.

 

Originally posted by Aminita

Well,  went thru and  read  the  posts.. 

Nope, dont think your perspective is any  better than mine Zifty..

just  different. 

I feel that a BG provides a place for a player  to enjoy rvr  at a slower  pace.. ther are times where Im just not 

up for full scale rvr,  

"Exploring' is not my idea of  fun  when I want to rvr. ...Hardly

Also.. improving my fighting skills.. On a straw DUMMY ??  LOL..  Honestly  hope you  were kidding. ..

BG's may not be Necessary,,,  but provide the player with a viable Alternative  to Big Boy  rvr. 

Some times I Ski the soft GREEN trails,  other times I love the Double Black Diamonds.. 

It come s down to having the  ability to Choose.. 

I LIKE  being  able to CHOOSE.. 

 

Alright, about the smaller scale RvR, i talked about how you could do small Point Of Interest not interesting for a zerg, we could do the same for the groups, a POI that rewards only 4 players on each realm and block the progression of all the others that enter after that limit, with a warning message if it's already full. I know it must have a lot of downside, it's just a random thought. It's to show than the bgs aren't the only way to have that.

Edit : Here will be the choices you want.

 

Exploring will probably be more for when you want to take a break from RvR.

 

Also, if bgs are for quick action, here comes another problem :

"When you die, and you will die; don’t expect to simply pop back up and get right back in the fight. It is going to be a lot more complicated than that. IMO, that gameplay style embodies some of the problems with many modern MMOs, death without consequence, “easy in” and “easy out” RvR, 6-year old kids’ soccer match, etc. RvR combat must be fun, challenging, exciting and losing must hurt a bit or it means nothing."

(http://citystateentertainment.com/2013/02/foundational-principle-2-rvr-isnt-the-end-game-its-the-only-game/)

 

This one of the reasons bgs probably won't be in CU.

 

About the straw dummy, if you ever go take a stroll by the border keeps on DAoC you'll see people hitting their defenseless bots and then healing them.

A straw dummy will let you hit as long as you want the same target without worrying about killing it or dying, and test a lot of different skill combinations and compare them, their efficacity when used with other skills, testing the range of spells or melee hit, the duration of the figth until you lose all your endurance, the rate of procs and crits, and surely more other things. Maybe a new player wouldn't make full use of it and we should put some in the main structures.

 

Originally posted by Telondariel

You posted opinion, not immutable fact.  Your opinion, on how you believe CU will play out and your views on if the BG's will work in that system.  This is a place to discuss ideas, not chastise and stifle because someone didn't pay attention to you.

I never said i was stating immutable facts. And i indeed gave my opinions, but the difference with you is than i give reasons to have those opinions, and i'm not very pleased to read "We should add cars to move faster" when i just posted "there probably won't be any cars because CU will take place in a medieval universe"

  Aminita

Novice Member

Joined: 2/05/13
Posts: 8

3/19/13 5:13:02 PM#135

Of course Zift.. 

Not valid to your reality.. 

i understand  that. 

And I accept that. 

  Tierless

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2085

joie de vivre

3/19/13 5:41:17 PM#136

This is harsh but it's how I feel. If you want instanced PVP then look into the numerous games that feature it.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Ziftylrhavic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 223

3/19/13 6:01:13 PM#137
Originally posted by Aminita

Of course Zift.. 

Not valid to your reality.. 

i understand  that. 

And I accept that. 

Then tell me why in your reality my arguments and examples aren't valid.

 

If you can't find them then ask me and i will take the time to spell them again for you.

  zekuel

Novice Member

Joined: 3/09/13
Posts: 39

3/19/13 6:32:07 PM#138
I'm reading two veiws on BG's. 1 is that they are not needed because we assume there is no level system that all skills are gained by killing other players. 2 that new players can not compete. I think having non instant BG's is possible and even practical. Instead of having /XP off why not just let players have multiple or scaled up builds. Build 1 1-1,000,000XP; continuation of build 1,000,001-2,000,000XP; continuation of build 2,000,001-3,000,000XP. You could be a higher level(XP) player and still go back and log into lower level XP battlegrounds with a lower XP character build. This way you can still group with newbies and alts to help them progress and also earn lower amounts of XP for when your in world (no limit XP zone). This could give the best of both worlds for all players. Also since all players would still be able to play in zones you won't have population decrease in the BG's and you can also make them have a smaller % of world impact (mini relics).
  zekuel

Novice Member

Joined: 3/09/13
Posts: 39

3/19/13 7:05:51 PM#139
To further this idea you can also ahve elite battle grounds for higher XP players for later expasions of the game. You could have a BG that scales up XP for the top 10% of players and then top 5%. So you can have a BG where the minimum requirement to enter it keeps going up and the elite can enter for harder but more XP rewarding experience.
  Tinea

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/27/03
Posts: 67

3/19/13 8:10:28 PM#140

My take on battlegrounds in a game with open world or at least large scale PvP / RvR is that battlegrounds should not give significant rewards so that they don't detract from the main fight (hello, WAR (at least at launch)).

I would be interested in a battleground based on gear level rather than player level (or realm rank).  It would be interesting if you put on "plain" gear with no bonuses to get into one BG (or the BG strips you of all bonuses while on the map).  This way starting characters would only have access to the lower level gear BGs, but it may be just as fun (if not more) than the big shiny gear fights.  I know the goal is not to make gear an automatic "I win" button, but let's face it, it will have some effect on gameplay.  It seems that this would be feasible if there are no real levels to the game.  The downside is that you need to go gear grinding to "advance" to another BG, though this might promote mid-level crafting of gear more (until the economy inflates).

This was just an idea I thought of while reading the different posts in this thread.  It is by no means fully thought out, so be kind when stomping on the idea and grinding it into the ground with your heel.  (Hehe, I spelled that "heal" at first... that's some harsh healing.)

Again, I'm not agaist BGs as a distraction, especially if you can't spend all night storming the castle.  Just don't make it as rewarding as real RvR.

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