Originally posted by Caliburn101

Originally posted by jimdandy26

 

You as a consumer should not be attempting to dictate what the game should be, or how the game should be done, only if you want to play it and if you do whether its well executed or not.

If this is in fact the case, why do a plethora of consumer pressure groups and customer-focussed regulators exist?

Do you really believe that as a consumer you have no right to try to change the nature of what you are consuming?

Sheep have no choice which grass they are forced to eat, and no way to communicate with the farmer about their desire to move to a better field...

... consumers, fortunately, are not sheep (at least literally...)... and are not limited to voting with their wallets alone...

Because people are stupid? Seriosly. For someone extolling the virtues of being given freedom you sure are endeavoring to take away that very freedom from the games creators. I am all for being up in arms over things like false advertising (Me3, WarZ) but the sheer amount of stupid shit those advocacy groups flip their shit over is appaling, and often times are out to do more damage than they fix. If you honestly feel this is one of those situations then I highly recommend you re-examine not only the ip, but also why and how you game.

Originally posted by jimdandy26

Originally posted by Caliburn101

Originally posted by jimdandy26

 

You as a consumer should not be attempting to dictate what the game should be, or how the game should be done, only if you want to play it and if you do whether its well executed or not.

If this is in fact the case, why do a plethora of consumer pressure groups and customer-focussed regulators exist?

Do you really believe that as a consumer you have no right to try to change the nature of what you are consuming?

Sheep have no choice which grass they are forced to eat, and no way to communicate with the farmer about their desire to move to a better field...

... consumers, fortunately, are not sheep (at least literally...)... and are not limited to voting with their wallets alone...

Because people are stupid? Seriosly. For someone extolling the virtues of being given freedom you sure are endeavoring to take away that very freedom from the games creators. I am all for being up in arms over things like false advertising (Me3, WarZ) but the sheer amount of stupid shit those advocacy groups flip their shit over is appaling, and often times are out to do more damage than they fix. If you honestly feel this is one of those situations then I highly recommend you re-examine not only the ip, but also why and how you game.

Most times the developers only listen, really listen, is when we vote with our money =-) 

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Most times the developers only listen, really listen, is when we vote with our money =-) 

That is rarely a developer thing (only the lead generally gets money reports, if ever) and is generally an investor thing. The very same investors all of you constantly bitch about for "dumbing down" gameplay, and aiming for the masses. While it is entirely dependent on the dev team themselves, crowd sourced development is horrible.

Originally posted by jimdandy26

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Most times the developers only listen, really listen, is when we vote with our money =-) 

That is rarely a developer thing (only the lead generally gets money reports, if ever) and is generally an investor thing. The very same investors all of you constantly bitch about for "dumbing down" gameplay, and aiming for the masses. While it is entirely dependent on the dev team themselves, crowd sourced development is horrible.

Thats one of the reasons I like games like GW1 with no sub. Developers make content and post it up in their cash shop. If players like it they buy it. If they dont, they know not to make that kinda of content as often. Sub based MMOs have to run metrics to find out what players are doing but sub games dont show why people quite because they dont like their options. Its less organic then a solid cash shop that shows "buy" people voting with money what they are looking for =--) 

As for dumbing down for the masses. I agree with that and dont. Some games try and just go for a large market share of customers but as of late we see games focusing on small customer bases with only 1 or 2 types of content to make that set of customers happy. I find it funny that ESO is trying to give a deep meaningful game when it comes to both PvP and PvE with DAoC style faction PvP and open worlds focus on PvE. Bringing back open world dungeons for groups and 2 man and fans are upset with just one option not given. Go anywhere on one char. Seems like they are missing the big picture on how really meaningful game play is and that setup with very defined rules to create that. How carebearish of a stand.

Originally posted by jimdandy26

Originally posted by Caliburn101

Originally posted by jimdandy26

 

You as a consumer should not be attempting to dictate what the game should be, or how the game should be done, only if you want to play it and if you do whether its well executed or not.

If this is in fact the case, why do a plethora of consumer pressure groups and customer-focussed regulators exist?

Do you really believe that as a consumer you have no right to try to change the nature of what you are consuming?

Sheep have no choice which grass they are forced to eat, and no way to communicate with the farmer about their desire to move to a better field...

... consumers, fortunately, are not sheep (at least literally...)... and are not limited to voting with their wallets alone...

Because people are stupid? Seriosly. For someone extolling the virtues of being given freedom you sure are endeavoring to take away that very freedom from the games creators. I am all for being up in arms over things like false advertising (Me3, WarZ) but the sheer amount of stupid shit those advocacy groups flip their shit over is appaling, and often times are out to do more damage than they fix. If you honestly feel this is one of those situations then I highly recommend you re-examine not only the ip, but also why and how you game.

Once again you insist on re-creating my response to suit your counter argument...

... lazy...

To make things clear - I am talking about consumers, not game creators. it is the freedom of consumers I care about, not the freedom of game creators.

As for the rest - I take it that your opinion is that advocacy groups are only involved in 'stupid shit' and 'appaling' (sic) behaviour?

Why is that?

As for the last line of your response - I would recommend you look up the term 'projection' in a psychology textbook...

w00t!!!!!!!!!!!!

Another new announcement came from the team about exploring the whole world of the game. For a while, it sounded like you could only explore the faction that you had joined at the beginning of the game. So the Ebonhearts would only explore Skyrim and so on. This has now been changed. Players who complete all of the PvE in their zone will now get the chance to unlock another zone at Level 50. Therefore, Ebonheart players can explore the content of the Daggerfall Covenant or the Aldmeri Dominion at Level 50. Once you make the choice the entire zone opens up to your character to explore. Matt did say that the loot you will get in the other zones will be really good, and after finishing the 2nd, you unlock the third. When you unlock the third zone that will give some of the best loot in the game.

I'll add that apparently, even "this late" in develpment, it wasn't much of an issue to make this happen. This is what I call listening to the players

Originally posted by Caliburn101

Once again you insist on re-creating my response to suit your counter argument...

... lazy...

To make things clear - I am talking about consumers, not game creators. it is the freedom of consumers I care about, not the freedom of game creators.

As for the rest - I take it that your opinion is that advocacy groups are only involved in 'stupid shit' and 'appaling' (sic) behaviour?

Why is that?

As for the last line of your response - I would recommend you look up the term 'projection' in a psychology textbook...

You should be worried about creators freedom. Listening to the playerbase is what gets us a brand new COD every year, and every newer MMO being a "WoWclone". Consumers do not know what they want, they want what they know. Its why people will drive an extra 10 blocks past several resturants to eat at Mcdonalds when in an unfamiliar place. Consumers buy what they are told to, its why when you ask someone how they like their coffee the most common response will be a "strong, fresh brewed cup" when the vast majority do not drink it that way at all. If consumers knew what they wanted and what they liked then advertising would not be anywhere near as powerful as it is.

Yep, and I suggest you pull your head out of the sand and actually look at the market and what is happening. Most "advocacy" groups are not actually out to protect the public, they are out to make money, or gain power to forward their own agenda. Look at the controversy over Orson Scott Card being hired by Dc for example.

Originally posted by Sovrath

I'll add that apparently, even "this late" in develpment, it wasn't much of an issue to make this happen. This is what I call listening to the players

Yep, so easy to add its getting pushed back to spring 2014. This is a huge negative being driven by the suits.

Originally posted by jimdandy26

Originally posted by Maelwydd

It obviously isn't going to sink in nanfoodle but I will try 1 last time to convey what CHOICE actually is.

 

If I give you an apple and an orange and say "which one will you eat?" you have 3 choices.

The Apple. 

The orange.

Neither.

Ignoring the actual subject matter is fruit you are choosing between, you have the deep and meaningful choice and result of that choice.

 

If I give you an apple and say "you have to eat one piece of fruit I have given you, which will it be?" You only have 1 choice.

The apple.

There is no choice involved. If you have to pick a fruit to eat and can only choose an apple because that is the only piece of fruit you have been given then it isn't a choice, it is simply the only option.

And I fully expect people to ignore the actual point of this post and focus on my love of fruit or some other silly crap but I hope you can understand why I see race/faction being hard coded and alowing me no choice.

 

 

But you willingly give up that choice the moment you buy the game. And merely saying "but that goes against what a TES game is" is silly  when its not the first game to do it. You have made it clear, Eso is not a game that you want to play, so why are you continuing to whine about it? Merely because its part of an ip you enjoy does not mean you have to like it. I am a Star Wars fan, does that mean I have to watch episode 1, or play Kinect Star Wars? I am a Star Trek fan, does that mean I have to Watch Enterprise, or read the books? The game is simply not made for you at all.

Exactly!

Originally posted by azzamasin

Originally posted by jimdandy26

Originally posted by Maelwydd

It obviously isn't going to sink in nanfoodle but I will try 1 last time to convey what CHOICE actually is.

 

If I give you an apple and an orange and say "which one will you eat?" you have 3 choices.

The Apple. 

The orange.

Neither.

Ignoring the actual subject matter is fruit you are choosing between, you have the deep and meaningful choice and result of that choice.

 

If I give you an apple and say "you have to eat one piece of fruit I have given you, which will it be?" You only have 1 choice.

The apple.

There is no choice involved. If you have to pick a fruit to eat and can only choose an apple because that is the only piece of fruit you have been given then it isn't a choice, it is simply the only option.

And I fully expect people to ignore the actual point of this post and focus on my love of fruit or some other silly crap but I hope you can understand why I see race/faction being hard coded and alowing me no choice.

 

 

But you willingly give up that choice the moment you buy the game. And merely saying "but that goes against what a TES game is" is silly  when its not the first game to do it. You have made it clear, Eso is not a game that you want to play, so why are you continuing to whine about it? Merely because its part of an ip you enjoy does not mean you have to like it. I am a Star Wars fan, does that mean I have to watch episode 1, or play Kinect Star Wars? I am a Star Trek fan, does that mean I have to Watch Enterprise, or read the books? The game is simply not made for you at all.

Exactly!

 

 

This thread is out of date since the announcements about other region access etc. and had slipped off the front page replaced by much more relevant debates.

Trolling and cyberstalking Maelwydd alongside the usual crowd dogging his every post is getting old and makes you sound like the 'whiner' out of the two of you - at least try to keep it current and relevant...