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World of Warcraft

World of Warcraft 

General Discussion  » Could a Vanilla WoW clone out do MoP?

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96 posts found
  fixif

Novice Member

Joined: 5/21/06
Posts: 186

3/17/13 8:18:50 PM#61

I loved vanilla. I'm glad I was a part of WoW when it 1st came out. No game will ever make me feel like those 60 levels in vanilla. Ever.

That being said, if you look at vanilla for what it was, I wouldn't go back in a million years. If that WoW was released today it would crash and burn for all eternity.

In my opinion MoP did an excellent job, 5.2 is a superb patch. Those two island really lured people out of the cities and world bosses and pvp dailies spark massive PvP battles all the time. Also you gotta love random world drops from those mobs. I think Blizzard did a great job with a 8year old game and brought back *SOME* of the feeling that was lost during all this time.

WoW is still the top dog in MMO department. I hate it when people say it's outdated where there is not a single game that is at least a bit successful that doesn't contain the very same game elements.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

3/17/13 8:30:35 PM#62
Originally posted by Isturi 

So after reading all the post it seems that players from our community anyways seems that The Vanilla WoW days were nice but a game needs to progress. I agree unfortently Blizz took to much time to progress in the correct way for many players and that cost them subs.

We're still talking about World of Warcraft, right?

  waynejr2

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3663

RIP City of Heroes!

3/17/13 8:46:36 PM#63
Originally posted by Isturi
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by Gravarg

The problem with having a Vanilla server, or clone is that everyone that wants it has already done it.  It will be boring and stale. To put it how some described Rift when it came out "Nothing new here, it's just like WoW".  This would truly be EXACTLY like WoW.  When MoP first launched and I got my first 90, I didn't like all the dailies either, but after 5.1 and 5.2, they seemed to be going away from dailies.  Yes they're still in there, but Blizzard is bringing back open world PvP.  With objectives to capture (5.1), and new pvp dailies (5.2), it seems Blizzard is starting to play attention to both pvp and pve.  

 

I personally love 5.1 and 5.2, but no so much 5.0.  Even Blizzard has said they went a little overboard on the dailies in 5.0.  That's why there's not so many in 5.1 and 5.2 and they made the Commendations you can buy at Revered.  This helps an altoholic like myself, keep all my characters upto par.  I haven't seen so much open world pvp in WoW since Burning Crusade.  I have characters on PvE servers, and Isle of Thunder is full of people doing the new pvp dailies, and spending the rest of the day stopping others, it's a blast.  Two days ago, we had a big ~50v50 battle royal romping across the island, which brought back memories of Tarren Mill (which according to Blizzard, was thier goal).  It seems that MoP is only getting better with each content patch.  Plus Blizzard has done a good job of making almost everyone (except a few orc only players) hate Garrosh, the patch that let's us raid orgrimmar and end his reign of terror, could be the best patch of all time.

 People have done it before and now they have so many years into their characters they want to keep the "investment" going.

Sure some people would play it but it won't kill MoP/WOW.  TBC killed vanilla in sub numbers so there is no basis to think vanilla was more successful.

I loved vanilla but I loved TBC more overall.  There were pockets of things that I missed, like old AV but much more improved in TBC.

People want to move forward not backwards in their gaming lives. 

So after reading all the post it seems that players from our community anyways seems that The Vanilla WoW days were nice but a game needs to progress. I agree unfortently Blizz took to much time to progress in the correct way for many players and that cost them subs. Now if they can keep on a good track with 5.1 and 5.2 then maybe who know maybe they can stop losing players. But the harsh reality of it is perhaps to little to late. just my opionion btw kind of reminds me of a AB bg when your side is losing and everyone decides to play as a team for the last 3 mins of the the bg and get off the rds and start to hold bases and fight on the flags well lol to little to late.

 "CORRECT WAY" according to you?  Look. subs went up post vanilla until it hit peak.  Other than that, you sound bitter.

  kjempff

Novice Member

Joined: 10/12/04
Posts: 640

Make worlds not stories

3/17/13 9:06:33 PM#64

Well eq progression servers were something of the same sorts, and it kindda worked but it werent something that made SOE rich - Means there were definately players for it, but not huge amounts. WoW has a good deal of sentimental players just like EQ has, and that speaks for the idea.

 

SOE made the "mistake" of mixing new with old, thus not quite reaching the nostalgia people who are the target audience for such. With that in mind, it is important that WoW uses its old code, and that can be a technincal problem. If the technical issues require alot of work to fix, it will not be a positive outcome finansially and I doubt Blizz would do it then.

 

I played EQ progression with a passion for awhile, and so I think WoW vets would love WoW vanilla aswell, but personally I find WoW a bit too shallow to re-live it although I might hop on for a month for a giggle. How about a WoW progression server instead, with 2month expansion roll-on or something.. just a continuing even that a wow progression server starts every 6 months or so and then merges when it reaches max expansion.. I mean as much as you love Vanilla I feel some kind of progression is in order.

 

Thinking about this some more I realize a huge problem. If it werent for all the UI mods I would never have played WoW, and getting mods for version this and that would be a nightmare, probably impossible unless curse would play along and find some backups. Playing WoW with only Blizzards UI... urgh, no way.

  kellax1978

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/17/13
Posts: 3

3/17/13 9:06:47 PM#65

I agree.

I recently started playing FFXI again, and I'm not sure why -- maybe the feeling of nostalgia was too much for me to handle. I quit in 2008, too ka two year break, came back in 2010, quit again and just came back. When I came back in 2010, I noticed something had changed, which was pretty much everything. Everyone was spending every second in Abyssea and grinding out merits. Abyssea killed the group dynamic, and thus, killing the game itself. I digress.

When I came back a month or so ago, I thought the game had moved beyond the zergfest that is Abyssea; I was wrong. I found myself in Abyssea - La Theine killing the same damn worms I was two years ago. Nothing had changed. Except for the fact 75% (S.W.A.G., btw) of my server's population has at least one relic/mythic/empyrean weapon. 

I long for the days I would sit in Whitegate, Jeuno or whereever just to wait for a party invite, or possibly start one of my own. I also miss the interaction between party members. Even if someone wasn't perfect, they'd be given a chance, and most of the time, someone would be there to correct them. We would go over group strategies when we made it to camp, and would then commence to some good ol' mob killin. And you would leave the party with a sense of accomplishment. Today, there is no interaction beyond the alliance leader asking for replacements, AFKers, leechers and the like. And the only accomplishments for today's 'exp alliances' are, well, the merits you earn and the loot that you get. There is no more, "Man I saved the party's ass by using Mighty Strikes and Rampaging that mob to death. The tank went down, so I had to step up."

It's utterly depressing.

I wish I could feel like I did in 2006 or 2007 or even 2008. People banding together to accomplish goals, because soloing was damn near impossible. However, it's now the norm. Going into Sea and doing Limbus or farming pop items for the Sea Jailers. Or even going into Sky. Everything now is just zerg, zerg, zerg.

But yes, I agree.

I believe what makes games like Wow (Vanilla) and FFXI (pre-Abyssea) so special is the community itself. The culture of instantaneous rewards brought by the LFG and raid-finder, to include abyssea, has changed the way we perceive and value each other. It's no longer, "I need this, so I'll help this dude" it's, "I need this and to hell with that guy."  

MMOs are about community, and the instant rewards systems the devs have implemented to 'minimize downtime' or 'keep players active' have fragmented the community within each game. These instant rewards systems have taken away one (big) reason to stop caring about other players. 

When was the last time that anyone truly helped someone, in-game, altruistically? Instead of, "I heard that dude shouting for 'xyz' for hours, but, ehh, f*** that dude." How about, "I heard that dude shouting for 'xyz,' so I gathered up a few others to help him out of a bind." 

If (when) we regain our sense of community, we'll have our Vanilla WoW and pre-abyssea FFXI back. 

 

  dumpcat

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/06/12
Posts: 213

3/17/13 11:20:43 PM#66
World PvP is crazy on my server.... now...its great!
  tazarconan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 1021

3/18/13 4:02:28 AM#67

I surely prefer vanilla wow from what its become nowdays. Combat mechanics and talent trees were leaving lots of space for players to improvise and have unique fight styles. Today with limited to none freedom on talent trees its quite certain that if u r x specc on x class vs x class and specc u must do x things to have chance to win.If u try to improvise u r cooked. Also combat back in vanilla was more unpredictable due to various sideeffects weapons chances to stun for x seconds ,talent picks etc etc ,really competitive battlegrounds, world pvp within the server,better community blah blah blah

These things cant be traded for all the pandas, wolverines and flying mounts  in the world.

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3546

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

3/18/13 8:53:40 AM#68
Originally posted by tazarconan

I surely prefer vanilla wow from what its become nowdays. Combat mechanics and talent trees were leaving lots of space for players to improvise and have unique fight styles. Today with limited to none freedom on talent trees its quite certain that if u r x specc on x class vs x class and specc u must do x things to have chance to win.If u try to improvise u r cooked. Also combat back in vanilla was more unpredictable due to various sideeffects weapons chances to stun for x seconds ,talent picks etc etc ,really competitive battlegrounds, world pvp within the server,better community blah blah blah

These things cant be traded for all the pandas, wolverines and flying mounts  in the world.

Much of that choice was an illusion.  Due to design errors (omission/commission) there was only a limited number of effective builds for most people, in most classes.  Thus was born the FOTM cycle.  Once theorycrafting really got started, it became an arms race between the top players and the Dev's. That continues to this day.

Most of the rose colored glasses seems to concern the "joys" of ganking and griefing back during the first year to 18 months of the game.  Given Blizzards obsession with spread sheets and data mining, if the majority of players had taken part in that, and enjoyed it (rather than simply tolerating it)  I doubt they would have changed it.

As for the rest, it was the PvP crowds vocal minority howling about "OP" this, and "broken" that, which drives much of the FOTM cycle.  It goes like this. Player A is killed by class B.  Player A howls "Class B is OP!!! Nerf class B!!" After a certain  amount of howling, and foaming at the mouth, the Dev's nerf class B into the ground.

 Then class C, D, E... Then the next part of the cycle starts. The Dev's say, fewer people are playing class B, buff class B! Then player A gets killed by class B, "Class B is OP!!! Nerf class B!!"... This repeats FOREVER. 

In the eternal search for the illusion of "balance" large amounts of Dev time and talent are consumed.  Also in the process, in most games, the nerf/buff cycle annoys the hell out of the PvE side of the game, because changes for "balance" in PvP, end up hammering the fun factor in PvE.  This acts as a DOT effect, which eventually contributes to many players leaving the game.

  birdycephon

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/09
Posts: 1327

Not Safe For Woona (NSFW)

3/18/13 11:21:11 AM#69
TBC was WoW's best expansion, if they made TBC servers, IMO they would outperform vanilla by a long shot.
  User Deleted
 
OP  3/18/13 11:51:38 AM#70
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Isturi 

So after reading all the post it seems that players from our community anyways seems that The Vanilla WoW days were nice but a game needs to progress. I agree unfortently Blizz took to much time to progress in the correct way for many players and that cost them subs.

We're still talking about World of Warcraft, right?

Um ya. Not sure why you are asking? Did you not  mean to leave a reply in a WoW thread? Hey np it happens.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

3/18/13 12:01:31 PM#71
Originally posted by Isturi
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Isturi 

So after reading all the post it seems that players from our community anyways seems that The Vanilla WoW days were nice but a game needs to progress. I agree unfortently Blizz took to much time to progress in the correct way for many players and that cost them subs.

We're still talking about World of Warcraft, right?

Um ya. Not sure why you are asking?

Because if we are, either you're looking at the wrong chart or you're holding it sideways.

You've made it very clear that facts and data aren't big things with you, but in case you were actually trying to base one of your posts on some semblance of reality, I figured I'd help you out some.

 

  User Deleted
 
OP  3/18/13 12:12:58 PM#72
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Isturi
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Isturi 

So after reading all the post it seems that players from our community anyways seems that The Vanilla WoW days were nice but a game needs to progress. I agree unfortently Blizz took to much time to progress in the correct way for many players and that cost them subs.

We're still talking about World of Warcraft, right?

Um ya. Not sure why you are asking?

Because if we are, either you're looking at the wrong chart or you're holding it sideways.

You've made it very clear that facts and data aren't big things with you, but in case you were actually trying to base one of your posts on some semblance of reality, I figured I'd help you out some.

 

TY for the help. Ya it is hard to keep a semblance of reality on a "what if" topic. After all this whole thread is based on imagination. The probibility of a gaming company making a Vanilla WoW clone to compete against WoW is highly unlikly. So ya not very much of sembalnce of reality to speak of on this thread.

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2369

3/18/13 12:31:35 PM#73
There was nothing unique or even great about vanilla WoW. The game owes its success to marketing, going back to the old ways would not bring back the masses. Only marketing does. Brand name recognition got WoW where it is.
  Holice

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/08
Posts: 118

3/18/13 12:45:08 PM#74

Remember when you were a kid and you went to the local carnival at a school, and it was the most amazing thing ever? Now fast forward 10 years, and having been to state fairs and Disney World, is that local carnival really that exciting? For the honest vast majority of you, no its not even close to as exciting or fun. Yet you can still recall having a blast because it was the first if not one of the first games you've ever played.

That's what would happen with a vanilla wow clone, you would miss all the "advancements" in today's modern games.

 

And as an aside, couldn't those who want vanilla and bc, simply run new toons up to 60 and run MC and BWL at level? And all gather in southshore at level 40 and fight? Doesn't wow have a way to turn off xp gain? So you can keep yourself at this level?

 

And the best part about it, you can and most likely will be ganked by 85s and 90s, but guess what, you all love being ganked, so no worries!

  User Deleted
3/18/13 1:24:29 PM#75
Originally posted by DavisFlight
There was nothing unique or even great about vanilla WoW. The game owes its success to marketing, going back to the old ways would not bring back the masses. Only marketing does. Brand name recognition got WoW where it is.

 

I think you over value marketing and are blind to the fact it is/was a very well made game that millions enjoy (except you of course)

 

 

  drbaltazar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7927

3/18/13 1:48:48 PM#76
gw2 is as close a game as i ever saw doing vanilla style (forget graphic of caurse the gw2 graphic are better lol the game is newer!
  Tutu2

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/11/06
Posts: 545

3/19/13 1:14:28 AM#77
Man wish people would get over this request already. Vanilla WoW was done and is gone, we don't need to bring it back. What made it truly great was its community back then. I look back and fondly remember the world pvp and the closer knit guilds. It felt great that gold was more hard earned too. But everything else about it was sorely overrated. 
  Primernova

Novice Member

Joined: 2/23/13
Posts: 8

3/19/13 8:56:30 AM#78
Originally posted by drbaltazar
gw2 is as close a game as i ever saw doing vanilla style (forget graphic of caurse the gw2 graphic are better lol the game is newer!

 

GW2 (Anet) is mostly Blizzard North, a key group in making vanilla/TBC WoW.

I consider the two, very similar to a Pink Floyd of MMOs.

I'll follow Gilmore.

 

 

 

  Thane

Elite Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1682

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

3/19/13 8:57:58 AM#79

you guys wanna die to my rogue again?

 

that's what vanilla was about. stop dreaming about something that never actually happened

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  Primernova

Novice Member

Joined: 2/23/13
Posts: 8

3/19/13 9:05:10 AM#80
Originally posted by Thane

you guys wanna die to my rogue again?

 

that's what vanilla was about. stop dreaming about something that never actually happened

 

Rogues have sucked since TBC, your point?

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