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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » A free to play model that WORKS

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68 posts found
  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7120

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

3/16/13 2:43:55 AM#41
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by mcool

Subscription- nobody likes paying a monthly fee for a game 

 

Makes bold statement.

Sees over 50% of his poll at this point show that they prefer paying a subscription.

 

subscription - 55.6%

cash shop - 11.1%

pay what you want - 11.1%

In game advertising - 0.0%

player hosting - 0.0%

one time fee (guild wars) - 22.2%

 
 
I maintain that the best model, and one we haven't seen tried yet as far as I know, may be to offer a *free* client, give the player a 2 week unlimited trial, and then ask for a reasonable sub if they want to carry on playing.

This poll obvious is not representive of the market. Here is some market data.

In the US, F2P outnumber P2P 6 to 1.

http://www.superdataresearch.com/us-free-to-play-does-it-pay-to-switch/

And "The good news is that in 2012, F2P MMOs made more than their P2P counterparts, capturing the majority of the MMO US market’s revenue."

So not only more people play F2P games, F2P games made more money.

 

What the figures of this report (that we can see) do not recognise is that a lot, and by that I mean pretty much all of the converted AAA games, still feature (rely on, even) the sub. And those subs are included in their revenue... they should be called hybrid models, not 'F2P'. They could as easily be labelled 'Sub', if the agenda was to promote that model instead of 'F2P'.

The enduring popularity of the sub is proof in itself that it isn't going anywhere. The demand for it is clear.

What this report seems to be saying, without seeing the full thing, is that having no client cost will get more folks to try your game (surpise surprise...) and that having a cash shop in your game will make you extra money (again, not really a surprise).

 

I have actually read what is shown there of that report before though, and in all honesty I wasn't impressed with it. There is a lot of apparent guess work inolved in how they gather their 'facts'.

 

I never said the poll here was representative of the market though btw... Just for the record. I just made the point that it's kinda funny to see such a strong statement made by the OP, only to see it squashed in his own poll.

 

subscription - 58.2%

cash shop - 9.2%

pay what you want - 8.2%

In game advertising - 0.0%

player hosting - 1.0%

one time fee (guild wars) - 23.5%

 
  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6085

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

3/16/13 4:10:47 AM#42
Originally posted by nariusseldon
 

This poll obvious is not representive of the market. Here is some market data.

In the US, F2P outnumber P2P 6 to 1.

http://www.superdataresearch.com/us-free-to-play-does-it-pay-to-switch/

And "The good news is that in 2012, F2P MMOs made more than their P2P counterparts, capturing the majority of the MMO US market’s revenue."

So not only more people play F2P games, F2P games made more money.

You do see that the poll shows what "some" people want and your link data shows what people have right? See the difference?

 

 

  daltanious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1694

3/16/13 6:15:27 AM#43
Originally posted by mcool

As of now , there arent many f2p models that doesnt offend the playerbase.

Subscription- nobody likes paying a monthly fee for a game, on top of that when you stop paying you have no access to the game. The amount of new games coming in means no-one is likely to remain in the same game for more than six months(gw2,stwor)..

.....

 work, the game could be free or a small fee and we watch an advert before we play. 

what do you think?

Wrong. I'm one of those players that plays ONLY sub games. Had tried in past also F2P ... but will never do it again. My stomach is still crawling.

Only exception - but is not truly F2P - is Gw2 which is great game and it is B2P.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

3/16/13 10:11:40 AM#44
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by nariusseldon
 

This poll obvious is not representive of the market. Here is some market data.

In the US, F2P outnumber P2P 6 to 1.

http://www.superdataresearch.com/us-free-to-play-does-it-pay-to-switch/

And "The good news is that in 2012, F2P MMOs made more than their P2P counterparts, capturing the majority of the MMO US market’s revenue."

So not only more people play F2P games, F2P games made more money.

You do see that the poll shows what "some" people want and your link data shows what people have right? See the difference?

 

 

Sine there are choices, what people have is what they want. If they don't want F2P, why bother spending a second in those games?

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

3/16/13 10:39:00 AM#45
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by nariusseldon
 

This poll obvious is not representive of the market. Here is some market data.

In the US, F2P outnumber P2P 6 to 1.

http://www.superdataresearch.com/us-free-to-play-does-it-pay-to-switch/

And "The good news is that in 2012, F2P MMOs made more than their P2P counterparts, capturing the majority of the MMO US market’s revenue."

So not only more people play F2P games, F2P games made more money.

You do see that the poll shows what "some" people want and your link data shows what people have right? See the difference?

 

 

Sine there are choices, what people have is what they want. If they don't want F2P, why bother spending a second in those games?

BECAUSE THEY ARE FREE....... 

dERP..   if a game has 1Million users because it is free, not all those people even care about the game, or even have intentions of playing it for any length of time. They are just trying it out. Some College kids are now using any free to play game as phun shops, to run around in a free game and create problems for the player-base... it's free you can do whatever you want.

If...     if... they buy something, then the developer's makes something, otherwise their server space and effort is for NOTHING.

 

Narius.. you skew facts all the time...     the term "players" in a Free to Play game means ZERO revenue...  Players are just potential customer, but they are not your customer, until they actually buy something. So please stop trying to insinuate that players = customers.

Coincidentally, that means that 2 million people trying a F2P game, is about the the same as 100k paying a monthly sub...

 

 

FREE...    means a college student can send a link to his buds & that next weekend, their whole floor can get on and tear up the "starter area" and greif all the little kids with their shiny $5 trinkets.

It's a free game, no rules, no repercusions, no harm & no foul..

FREE = CHEAP   & it is no surprise that a free game has more register users than a payed game.  Or Narius, are you just comming around to realize that MORE PLAYERS doesn't equil more revenues. Because in a F2P game, not all players are customers...  not even 50% of them...

 

 

Lastly, I would pay $25/month for a good old fashioned MMORPG. I would pay $35/month for a MMORPG with active roleplaying CS reps in game.

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  spizz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/11/04
Posts: 2582

3/16/13 10:45:28 AM#46
Originally posted by mcool

 

Subscription- nobody likes paying a monthly fee for a game, 

Thats a myth propagated by the industry.

  Xthos

Elite Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2627

3/16/13 10:54:45 AM#47
Originally posted by spizz
Originally posted by mcool

 

Subscription- nobody likes paying a monthly fee for a game, 

Thats a myth propagated by the industry.

I don't like it, I prefer it!  I really hope they change EQNext to a sub, but probably not. 

I like something to atleast be b2p, for a mmo, if you have no investment into it, I think that leads to it beingmore easily subjected to hackers/farmers and grief....Ban someone, they can just make a new account and act like a jerk in a couple minutes....If they had to pay for that account, not so much, if done right.

 

I have no problem paying, if the mmo is worth it, and I have stated elsewhere, if it isn't worth it, it being free will not keep me playing it, even being paid to play it will not keep me playing it (unless it was something absurd that would never happen, just to argue it).

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4375

3/16/13 11:09:13 AM#48

It isn't the money...it's the game. f2p b2p p2p I don't care. If the game is fun and I want to log in and play it I don't care what type of payment model the game has.

The problem has never been the cost of the games. The problem is you get to a point in the game and think this is boring or broken to the point where it isn't fun and you quit.

I've never quit a game because I couldn't afford the $15.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  spizz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/11/04
Posts: 2582

3/16/13 11:10:09 AM#49
Originally posted by Xthos
Originally posted by spizz
Originally posted by mcool

 

Subscription- nobody likes paying a monthly fee for a game, 

Thats a myth propagated by the industry.

I don't like it, I prefer it!  I really hope they change EQNext to a sub, but probably not. 

I like something to atleast be b2p, for a mmo, if you have no investment into it, I think that leads to it beingmore easily subjected to hackers/farmers and grief....Ban someone, they can just make a new account and act like a jerk in a couple minutes....If they had to pay for that account, not so much, if done right.

 

I have no problem paying, if the mmo is worth it, and I have stated elsewhere, if it isn't worth it, it being free will not keep me playing it, even being paid to play it will not keep me playing it (unless it was something absurd that would never happen, just to argue it).

 

Sure, serious gamer looking for quality and not just games which offer limited access in form of "free". Many dont care if it is free or not, quality counts. 

The point is that the industry want to make the masses believe that allegedly a subscription is outdated, which is not since a lot of the sub based games are/were successfull and many things in our daily life are based on subs i.e. appartement, electricity, magazines/newspapers, gym, and so on.

There is a certain amount of players who are game hoppers which like the F2P concept, they switch games within a short time and dont play games for longer or even years.

The F2P concept draws of course the masses and have a huge rush of players, since you can access it for free even it is limited and this again influence the industry with this successfull concept. Since mmorpgs gameplay is a lot based on humans greed, of course the industry did find out how to make a clever business out of it.

Only a small percentage of either financially strong player and players who spend uncontrolled higher amounts is enough to make profit, besides the percentage of players who spend average amounts in the cash shop. In addition there is often the question if you really can participate the high end game without spending anything.

They work with all the tricks that you actually will probably spend a certain amount, often sometimes a lot more than just with a subscription, if you are a serious gamer and not a game hopper who will switch already to the next released F2P game. At the end such a concept may raise the revenues but destroys a lot what more serious mmorpg players are actually looking for and the genre reprobates.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11899

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

3/16/13 11:18:04 AM#50
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by nariusseldon
 

This poll obvious is not representive of the market. Here is some market data.

In the US, F2P outnumber P2P 6 to 1.

http://www.superdataresearch.com/us-free-to-play-does-it-pay-to-switch/

And "The good news is that in 2012, F2P MMOs made more than their P2P counterparts, capturing the majority of the MMO US market’s revenue."

So not only more people play F2P games, F2P games made more money.

You do see that the poll shows what "some" people want and your link data shows what people have right? See the difference?

Are you saying that there are people that want subscription games but for some reason do not have access to them? If not, then what he presented is correct. These aren't utilities, they are leisure activities. In that light, the numbers show exactly what people want.

  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6085

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

3/17/13 4:00:41 AM#51
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by nariusseldon
 

This poll obvious is not representive of the market. Here is some market data.

In the US, F2P outnumber P2P 6 to 1.

http://www.superdataresearch.com/us-free-to-play-does-it-pay-to-switch/

And "The good news is that in 2012, F2P MMOs made more than their P2P counterparts, capturing the majority of the MMO US market’s revenue."

So not only more people play F2P games, F2P games made more money.

You do see that the poll shows what "some" people want and your link data shows what people have right? See the difference?

Are you saying that there are people that want subscription games but for some reason do not have access to them? If not, then what he presented is correct. These aren't utilities, they are leisure activities. In that light, the numbers show exactly what people want.

Nope that's not what I said.

  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

3/17/13 4:15:41 AM#52

I love Age of Conan's free to play system, it almost has no restrictions except 50% bank space and advanced mount training

At lvl80 you are invested in the game and it makes sense to switch to sub or game time cards, because there is lots of premium endgame content and alternate advancement perks.

If you decide to invest 45$ into the game you have the Rotgs expansion, the Jewels of turan DLC and two months of premium time

 

Secrets of Dragon´s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.


.
The Return of ELITE !

  Squeak69

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 959

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

3/17/13 4:20:41 AM#53
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by nariusseldon
 

This poll obvious is not representive of the market. Here is some market data.

In the US, F2P outnumber P2P 6 to 1.

http://www.superdataresearch.com/us-free-to-play-does-it-pay-to-switch/

And "The good news is that in 2012, F2P MMOs made more than their P2P counterparts, capturing the majority of the MMO US market’s revenue."

So not only more people play F2P games, F2P games made more money.

You do see that the poll shows what "some" people want and your link data shows what people have right? See the difference?

Are you saying that there are people that want subscription games but for some reason do not have access to them? If not, then what he presented is correct. These aren't utilities, they are leisure activities. In that light, the numbers show exactly what people want.

Nope that's not what I said.

the reason there are more F2P then sub games out there is simply because F2P makes more money so most companies have gone over to that system, what playes want has very little impact in a supply and demand market.

i know thier are lots of people who will say im wrong but meh i dont care the truth is the truth and people tend to look away from what they dont want to see even if its the truth.

if ya dont beleave me then here is another fact the vatican denied that the earth moved around the sun and not vice versa until 1992, when they anounced that this was a fact.

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

3/17/13 4:30:56 PM#54
Originally posted by Squeak69
 

the reason there are more F2P then sub games out there is simply because F2P makes more money so most companies have gone over to that system, what playes want has very little impact in a supply and demand market.

LOL .. F2P makes more money .. because people pay them. People pay them because people want to.

I bet you don't run a business. Let's produce stuff people don't want .. they will pay for it anyway because Squeak said so!

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2398

3/18/13 9:25:51 AM#55
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by bugmeno
Lord of the Rings Online F2P Model works just fine.

Yeah, for Turbine. It costs more money now to access the same amount of content you used to be able to get for 15 a month. They still give you the option of subscribing, but you get fewer features and limited content. They make you grind and jump through hoops for points, everything prompts you for a credit cards. Quests lock you out, dungeons are not able to be entered. It's a really horrible system for a game that prides itself on its world. Meanwhile, Vanguard has a 100% open world, open dungeons, open quests, no cost AT ALL.

LotRO gets its money by making your life miserable and charging for conveniences. Vanguard just gives you the game.

It cost less to access a lot of content .. in fact, it costs zero. Who wants to access the same amount of content when one barely has time to consumer the free stuff?

 

I ran out of the free stuff in 3 days.

  Aelious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2309

World > Quest Progression

3/18/13 9:41:57 AM#56
I don't think it's any surprise F2P titles have outnumbered P2P, just look at how many MMOs are listed on this site...

What is that supposed to mean exactly? Just because the industry is flooded with cheap F2P games doesn't mean they are somehow superior to P2P it just means the new people coming in don't want to pay. Yep, one good thing it has done is being more people to MMOs, a LOT more. With newer games coming out that are different than the typical model I wonder how that chart is going to look two years from now.

If you look at the chart listed somewhere above the rise of F2P does not match the drop of P2P, in fact it's staggering how different they are. The market has stagnated and there are free offerings with similar play to P2P. Those thinking that F2P is the future may not want to hold thier breath.
  Redemp

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/05
Posts: 1055

If I didn't respond to you, chances are you're a idiot.

3/18/13 9:51:06 AM#57
 Poll seems to indicate people want subs still, interesting considering the amount of people on the F2P bandwagon. There are either alot of us nostalgic fools who grew up with subs on this site, or the majority that entered the thread truely due want subs. I spend more money on F2P games , my fault but I do. I've also always found sub based games to hold to a higher standard than those without. I'd say Gw2 was the exception but given their patching schedule/history I'm not inclined to tip my hat at their after launch support just yet.
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

3/18/13 10:05:19 AM#58
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by bugmeno
Lord of the Rings Online F2P Model works just fine.

Yeah, for Turbine. It costs more money now to access the same amount of content you used to be able to get for 15 a month. They still give you the option of subscribing, but you get fewer features and limited content. They make you grind and jump through hoops for points, everything prompts you for a credit cards. Quests lock you out, dungeons are not able to be entered. It's a really horrible system for a game that prides itself on its world. Meanwhile, Vanguard has a 100% open world, open dungeons, open quests, no cost AT ALL.

LotRO gets its money by making your life miserable and charging for conveniences. Vanguard just gives you the game.

It cost less to access a lot of content .. in fact, it costs zero. Who wants to access the same amount of content when one barely has time to consumer the free stuff?

 

I ran out of the free stuff in 3 days.

Really? You play 24/7?

Move to the next f2p game. It is not like you are running of those.

  Superman0X

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/28/06
Posts: 955

3/18/13 10:11:25 AM#59
Originally posted by Redemp
 Poll seems to indicate people want subs still, interesting considering the amount of people on the F2P bandwagon. There are either alot of us nostalgic fools who grew up with subs on this site, or the majority that entered the thread truely due want subs. I spend more money on F2P games , my fault but I do. I've also always found sub based games to hold to a higher standard than those without. I'd say Gw2 was the exception but given their patching schedule/history I'm not inclined to tip my hat at their after launch support just yet.

The primary method to monitize F2P games is subs (at least in the west). In the east it is time cards. When people talk about F2P, they are mostly talking about subs.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11899

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

3/18/13 10:30:22 AM#60
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Squeak69
 

the reason there are more F2P then sub games out there is simply because F2P makes more money so most companies have gone over to that system, what playes want has very little impact in a supply and demand market.

LOL .. F2P makes more money .. because people pay them. People pay them because people want to.

I bet you don't run a business. Let's produce stuff people don't want .. they will pay for it anyway because Squeak said so!

Squeak isn't the only one that holds that odd contention. There are a frightening number of people here that follow that odd logic.

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