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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » XP grind. Mob or Quest?

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127 posts found
  Magiknight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/10/09
Posts: 791

3/17/13 11:23:46 PM#101
Slow combat was really nice for meeting people
  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 6170

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

3/17/13 11:30:43 PM#102

i pick none of them. grinding mobs is horribly boring and teddious. Granding quest can be as boring and teddious when all you have to do is kill 10 rats over and over to collect 10 bear asses no matter who you are playing with. Im sorry for my friends but if im not doing that just because they are playing it. No more!

 

Ive said this like a bagillion times. After GW2 swapped quest grind with dynamic events. I dont look back to mmos with grind quests or grind mobs to gain exp and progress my character.

 

Whatever comes next MUST have a better mechanic than what GW2 offered or they will never see my money. Quest progression and combat is what i do the most in mmos to keep myself playing so they have to be good, and different form all the old stuff that its already sickening.

  KaosProphet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 384

3/18/13 12:30:48 AM#103
Originally posted by grimfall

Many of the posters on this thread never have had the satisfaction of working together with 70 other players, using 3 chat channels simultaneously to take down a bad ass god or dragon that you've tried four times previously and failed.  The feeling of community and accomplishment you get from doing that can't be replaced by anything else.

Diffrerent strokes for different folks.  I find groups of that size more annoying than satisfying.  There is 'community,' but it's the kind that reminds me why I chose to spend hours learning basic programming on my vic20 alone instead of playing t-ball with the other kids. 

And the 'feeling of accomplishment' - for me at least - tends to be somewhat offset by a feeling of redundancy and replacability;  like any half-competent body could have sat in my place and it would have made a negligible difference.  Whether that's true or not is beside the point; the 'feeling' that it was was there, and it left the experience less than satisfying for me.

 

  Aori

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/06
Posts: 1888

3/18/13 12:38:18 AM#104
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by TheJoda

I truly hope EQnext brings this back....bring back content where we can raid not at max lvl, bring back content for 30+ players needed.  I recall raiding to kill the AoW needing over 60 people when that content came out, which that took time it  BUILT player relationships! 

 

Unless you have a LFR feature, i doubt that would be very popular.

Thinking about the horror of waiting for 29 people to show up, and have to sync everyone schedule .. jsut to play a game.

 

Why 30+ players? Why not 25? We have games such as WoW that do 25 player raids. Is there something magical about 30+ or is it just a way to exclude WoW?

 

WoW also has 40 player World Bosses now...so your wish has been granted...

40 player world boss? I've heard of 3 40man raids going after the new super trex.

  iixviiiix

Elite Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 713

3/20/13 9:58:55 AM#105

I don't like "grind" , mob or quest don't make thing diffrence.

The meanless feeling when hunting million monster or run from quest to quest to gather EXP for next lvl don't go away.

seriously

Monster or quest born to challenge player. If they not hard enough, then all are meanless.

specialy don't like "grind" quests .

They (developers) make "quests" like a bad food , i can't stomach too much of them.

So

I prefer "grind" mob for exp and do quest for fun and reward.

 

In my point of view , best way to build up your character in RPG are hunting monster.

It just that developer to lazy to created good monster to make "mob grind" interest. They too lazy so they ask player to kill million half ass monster for exp to next level.

 

They created quest grind to make player leveling fast , but the true's that just a mask to hide the "mob grind" at "end game".

What you called "quest grind" just a big lie of developer to hide the true face of hardcore mob grind game. Because "true game" only start when you level max .

 

Yeah , a endless instance mob grind as "end game content" *evil smile*.

 

 

 

 

 

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6496

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

3/20/13 10:06:33 AM#106
Originally posted by Nadia

prefer questing solo

 

prefer grinding mobs in player groups

 

This, I think.

I spend a lot of my mmo time working with a partner (two=three is the perfect sized group, works for either activity equally well imho).

But popping on to quest solo? Sure, I can get into "leave me alone" moods too. Don't think I've ever met anyone who doesn't.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  TheJoda

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/10
Posts: 492

"Yes...... that's a Duck Staff of D00M!!!"

4/07/13 4:05:00 PM#107
looking forward to ArchAge.......Grind/quest sounds balanced enuff

....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  Waterlily

Novice Member

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 2989

4/07/13 4:10:10 PM#108

EQ's brutal mob grind was a much better system than WoW's casual quest grind.

When you have a common goal it's easy to  build a forced grouping game like EQ, quests grinding like WoW prevent socialising because everyone has a different goal.

I can't group with someone if they have completely different quest goal. Grouping in EQ was so easy because we had one goal: kill stuff.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 7675

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

4/07/13 4:15:39 PM#109

I feel ALL xp shoudl be related to it's proper course.Example exploring xp for exploring ,comabt xp through,you guessed it combat.

However ,i have NEVER seen the common sense from gaining xp for doing quests.Quests shoudl be about faction or gaining favor with that npc or nation.Games tend to generally do this but also add that free xp.

Some games seem to take feedback on crafting and exploring and think that means we need to allow players to gain xp from noty doing combat.That again is wrong becuase it makes no sense.If you nevcer take part in combat,why woudl it make sense that you are a fully experienced max level Warrior?

So you need to keep everything in persepective,design the game liek you have some common sense.

I loved watching Wildstar videos because the narrator explains everything,telling us exactly the thought process to why they did what they did.I am sure there will be xp for questing,something i don't like,however they did seem to put some trhought into the whoel design rather than copy/paste Wow or Eq2.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Doogiehowser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1954

4/07/13 4:18:09 PM#110
Quests all the way.. and this should have been a poll.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  KamiKazeTG

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/05
Posts: 58

4/07/13 4:20:50 PM#111
Originally posted by Psychow

Basically, you are choosing one humungus kill 1 million rats quest to gain xp. Really? That's fun to you? I see people argue for it because they had fun socializing while farming the mobs...but can't people socialize while questing? I'm just really amazed at the preferece people are claiming...are you all botters?

I've seen this comment in here a lot when referencing grinding over questing but I ask you..what's the difference between fighting x rats vs doing x fedex 'kill rats' quests? Nothing.

I think the main problem is that most people are misunderstanding when we're refering to 'grinding' we're not talking about fighting thousands or millions of the same mobs...it's a slower pace. Like FFXI or EQ1. You weren't fighting huge hordes of mobs at once or thousands in a row. It was..kill one..wait a bit while puller goes out..repeat.

The issue with the current state of 'questing' is that it's all about grinding but on a solo rate to level to end-game fast as possible. Eastern MMORPGs are the real grind-fests..where they're focused on thousands upon thousands of kill to gain a smidge of xp. While Western MMORPGs are about getting to the end-game as fast as possible. And, of course, there's the games in-between..which get all but forgotten.

 

I'm personally tired of games being about getting to end-game before they're worth paying attention to..aka WoW, EQ2, etc. Yes, I know, you COULD do things in the mid-range..but there's no incentive to do so aside from boredom..and at that point..you should find another game. I usually will start a new toon on the games I play as soon as I reach max level or shortly after doing a few end-game things. I see no point mindlessly puttering away at raids/dungeons for 1 piece of gear that will help me putter some more (I have done so in the past though, mind you).

  corpusc

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1390

CHATTANOOGAN

contact me if you are seriously interested in
* C#
* making an old schoolish FPS

4/07/13 4:27:42 PM#112

mandatory quest grinding was probably the 2nd worst thing to ever happen to MMOs.  

(1st being heavy instancing)

The End
---------------------------
i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  hockeyplayr

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/10
Posts: 575

4/07/13 4:29:13 PM#113
I prefer mob grinding.  If I am going to sit there and just grind (essentially what questing is), I'd rather not move and just plop myself in one spot with an opportunity to socialize
  Kuviski

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/13/12
Posts: 217

4/07/13 4:38:13 PM#114

I would like to see it done this way:

Having multiple areas of un-instanced stronger ("elite") mobs, possibly with rare minibosses or similar mobs spawning in the area from time to time as well: these would be  the group grinding areas and would grant the fastest XP, however a group would be required to efficiently kill these mobs. How ever, the mobs should probably also be  challenging even for a group.

The second fastest way to gain XP would be to solo grind.

The third fastest option, buy only slightly behind the other two would be solo questing. Although I'd also like to see some group quests here and there on the way to the max level.

The  least XP  would be granted by dungeon grinding (most likely in a game where there is not LFG tool), but this method would provide you with the best equipment and mor exciting fights and sights to see.

 

So, choice is what I would like to see. I want questing and instanced grouping be the choices you can make for leveling at the cost of some experience/hour, where as I want group grinding and grinding to be the most efficient ways for leveling because they require, in my eyes, the most work and don't reward the player much else than pure XP (where as quests and dungeons reward the player with such things as exciting sights to see or equipment instead of the most efficient XP).

  Waterlily

Novice Member

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 2989

4/07/13 4:45:54 PM#115

Both doesn't work because people choose the path of least resistance, and that's soloing quests.

Quest Grinders like WoW and FFXIV ARR actually attract non-social players and kids, so you end up trying to talk to silent totem poles that don't even respond to you.

In fact many MMO like FF XIV ARR allow PS3 players to play with PC players, so you have half the population playing without access to a keyboard.

You'll have more success getting a frog to talk to you than a player in a Quest Grinder.

 

Quest grinders are basically single player games, since people aren't reading what other players are saying, they're reading what the Quest is saying.

  hockeyplayr

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/10
Posts: 575

4/07/13 4:50:50 PM#116
Originally posted by hockeyplayr
I prefer mob grinding.  If I am going to sit there and just grind (essentially what questing is), I'd rather not move and just plop myself in one spot with an opportunity to socialize

to elaborate, I always use runescape as an example.  When I started playing you had access to the entire map all filled with different areas containing different mobs of varying strengths and experience.  It was up to you to locate which ones would be beneficial to fight and how to kill them efficiently to make grinding worthwhile.  No quest took me (I only did the necessary quests so I could be wrong) and showed me well this is what you should be killing right now at your level. 

 

Let people figure out how to level on their own.  May surprise some what people come up with

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2664

World > Quest Progression

4/07/13 5:49:52 PM#117
Originally posted by KamiKazeTG
Originally posted by Psychow

Basically, you are choosing one humungus kill 1 million rats quest to gain xp. Really? That's fun to you? I see people argue for it because they had fun socializing while farming the mobs...but can't people socialize while questing? I'm just really amazed at the preferece people are claiming...are you all botters?

I've seen this comment in here a lot when referencing grinding over questing but I ask you..what's the difference between fighting x rats vs doing x fedex 'kill rats' quests? Nothing.

I think the main problem is that most people are misunderstanding when we're refering to 'grinding' we're not talking about fighting thousands or millions of the same mobs...it's a slower pace. Like FFXI or EQ1. You weren't fighting huge hordes of mobs at once or thousands in a row. It was..kill one..wait a bit while puller goes out..repeat.

The issue with the current state of 'questing' is that it's all about grinding but on a solo rate to level to end-game fast as possible. Eastern MMORPGs are the real grind-fests..where they're focused on thousands upon thousands of kill to gain a smidge of xp. While Western MMORPGs are about getting to the end-game as fast as possible. And, of course, there's the games in-between..which get all but forgotten.

I'm personally tired of games being about getting to end-game before they're worth paying attention to..aka WoW, EQ2, etc. Yes, I know, you COULD do things in the mid-range..but there's no incentive to do so aside from boredom..and at that point..you should find another game. I usually will start a new toon on the games I play as soon as I reach max level or shortly after doing a few end-game things. I see no point mindlessly puttering away at raids/dungeons for 1 piece of gear that will help me putter some more (I have done so in the past though, mind you).

 

I'm the same way, I enjoy the journey aspect of MMOs and it seem far too short most of the time.  I am being drawn to games that feature "scaling" though.  GW2, EQ2 and Vanguard can do this and elongate your play once you are high level.

 

As far as "quest vs. kill" I would say both as an equal means to level.  If I could only choose one I would say kill.  Reason being is the inclusion of other people where each can benefit.  In a quest based game if the "helper" is not on the same quest both people are not progressing the same.  Typically in quest based MMOs, EQ2 is one exception and I'm sure there are more, the quest is the main bulk of xp so the one(s) helping are left wth less.  With kill based progression each is getting the same and additionally if the kill content is group based (harder) content.

 

As ironic as it seems there would be more "wasted time" with a group of people doing quests, unless they has all the same ones, than if they were looking for areas to take on group content.

  TheJoda

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/10
Posts: 492

"Yes...... that's a Duck Staff of D00M!!!"

4/07/13 5:57:27 PM#118
Originally posted by Waterlily

EQ's brutal mob grind was a much better system than WoW's casual quest grind.

When you have a common goal it's easy to  build a forced grouping game like EQ, quests grinding like WoW prevent socialising because everyone has a different goal.

I can't group with someone if they have completely different quest goal. Grouping in EQ was so easy because we had one goal: kill stuff.

 

.....I agree 100%.........but kids now a days want it all fast.....look at the d3 AH mess wifh RL money now....even the dev's said its jacked!

....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  Benedikt

Tipster

Joined: 12/12/04
Posts: 1399

We live for The One, we die for The One.

4/07/13 6:08:15 PM#119
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Psychow

I'm finding it difficult to believe how many people in this thread claim they would prefer to just mindlessly grind mobs for xp instead of questing. Quests can be made up of combat/non-combat type of activities, vehicle type encounters, exploration, etc. Some may be quick...other may be long epic chains.

 

Basically, you are choosing one humungus kill 1 million rats quest to gain xp. Really? That's fun to you? I see people argue for it because they had fun socializing while farming the mobs...but can't people socialize while questing? I'm just really amazed at the preferece people are claiming...are you all botters?

 

 

You prefer going and talking to some guy that tells you to go kill 5 rats then come back so he can tell you to do it again? 

MMO's don't give you quests to do, they give you errands. I'd rather grind mobs than play errand boy online for the umpteenth time.  

this

i like to roam around on my own pace, kill what i see, explore and loot. i started to really hate those hundreds of quests which are all the same that most of the mmorpgs (with a bit exception of TSW) throw at you. not to mention running all the time to quest giver to turn in done and take new quests.

if quests, then i would prefer them to be really rare in the game, hard to find and long time taking to finish. not having overflowing quest log of "run around from marked point A to point B"

  iixviiiix

Elite Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 713

4/07/13 11:16:48 PM#120

i think everyone ready know that half of exp quest give you are from mob that you killing.

If they want to make it easy for player , they just need to double mob exp, not created some worthless quest.

 

And quest grind are terrible way to build a MMORPG.

Because in quest grind , player mainly solo.

So what point to play MMOs ?

Because of that , mmorpg nowaday have low party rate , terrible as Japan birth rate.

And because of that , player's relationship are extreme low.

 

If they want player lvl up fast , why don't make quest that give you exp when you pay gold ?

Yes , you pay gold to finish quest.

"please kil 10 rat and talk with npc A when you finish"

Stop that joke.

I will pay you gold that i earn from monster kill , kill those rat by yourself and give me my delicious exp.

 

Quest are precious content don't waste it.

It make me feel bad when they turn them to trash and throw at player.

 

Quest are content and exp grind are work.

And look , they mix player enjoyment with hard working.

 

If developer afraid player will pass they precious story telling content , there are alot way to make even high player get they hard time with low level pluzze quest. You don't need strong monster to created a hard quest , use your creative  to created some challenge for player .

Stop making those brainless muscle quest with auto hind.

 

Let player have they fun party time with mob grind exp

Let player have they enjoy time to slove quest's mystery.

 

You can't mix all the luxury delicious food in one bowl to created a better food. It only make thing go worst.

 

Quest are good tool to break "grind" , but don't abuse it and turn it in another kind of "grind".

I feel sad when most developer don't understand it.

What they want are people fast lvl up and join they "endgame content"

 

What point of "endgame content" grind fest when you waste alot of good content that player don't even read what those quest write.

 

Monster give exp / drop loots

Quest give money / fame / reward.

 

Don't tell me "i want solo and want 5' log and still finish something"

Yeah , you can still finish some quest with 5' and get some exp from mob that you need to kill , some exp , maybe a item.

You can solo too.

 

Let monster being the ugly one you need to kill.

Don't let player kill those good quest , those precious content , let player enjoy them.

 

Developer have to understand a logic.

Character earn exp from fighting monster and active thing like collect an craft.

Quest don't give exp , they only give reward.

 

So stop grind quest , stop grind game content.

Let Party , grind mobs to minced meat and enjoy quest with beer.

 

Another post in this topic

I think i have enough of quest grind ,

last week i download a F2P MMO and i feel sick when it tell me to quest grind again.

I at my limit of quest grind.

Now i can't play a MMORPG with quest grind anymore , because i feel it so familiar that i can know how endgame of it look like.

I feel so envy with people who just start to play quest grind , i hope i can being like them , enjoy game and don't feel anything bad. So innocent , i miss my innocent hahaha

Sigh*...

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