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General Discussion  » Could a Vanilla WoW clone out do MoP?

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96 posts found
  Clypto75

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 65

3/17/13 9:37:09 AM#41
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by Isturi

I truly believe that if a gaming company made a blatant vanilla WoW clone or even a WoW clone with just the BC xpac in the game it would actually have more numbers then MoP.

Why? Simple players and millions of players agree strongly that cata was prob the worst xpac many would also agree that WotLK is not much better and millions agree just let the dropping number speak for themselves that MoP is a desperate attempt to capture the vanilla feel but failing simple because of all the blotch up patches that Blizz gave WoW since BC the LFG tool LFR tool.... sigh just bout every patch from BC onward basically has damaged WoW. With this being said If a gaming company made a blatant WoW clone strictly Vanilla or with most of BC mixed in I think that they would rake in millions of players.

Here is how it should be done:

Have three factions of course and just call theme the red vs blue vs (insert color here) sides.

Bring back the original 40 man raid. (I think that WS will find this feature to be very attractive with players. )

Balance out PVP bring it back to vanilla game play were it took skill to be good at bg not just armor set buff and facerolling.

Balance out PVE can anyone say CC anymore.

Forget about the first two added races just keep it simple Orcs, Humans and elves taken from statement one a three way faction will be brilliant. have the elves your natural faction and let them be allowed into either side's city with no worries of getting ganked so basically a natural faction.

World bosses will automatically flag your faction. Yes if you want that highest tier loot from a world boss then you must flagged and earn it properly.

Continue with tier upgrades but here is the trick have a BT or a Kara raid which of course if you want to raid you must get attuned for it. Yes bring back the atonement  chain quest again. Now to keep the game interesting so once a guild beats the toughest raid in the game will to be simply change up the bosses keep the instance with the same lay out but change the bosses moves around. Or better yet let a REAL person play the boss and not let it be just a mechanical boss keep the players guessing. Then as a reward up the tier loot that way if a guild can truly beet a boss encounter this way.

And going back to open world pvp have top tier drops for a Hala type open world pvp setting as to every member of the raiding pvp team gets gear only if they keep their faction hold on a Hala type take over for lets say if they can keep Hala in their favor for a time limit. For instance if a guild of opposite faction who wishes to take over Hala will not only have to defeat the incredibly hard guards with incredibly high health to boot make the Hala guards the hardest npc in the game to beet but they cant solo it just dropping bombs on it and expect a win but it has to be a legit 10 man or more Hala raid for the highest tier to drop. Make since?

And yes bring back the open world raiding of xrds or south shore or whatever but just for the fun of it. Or if a successful raid on a low lvl village let that faction who did this successfully take control of that small town or place or whatever it is they decided to raid against.

Tell me what you think of these idea's for a vanilla Clone of WoW.

Some how, I suspect your rose colored glasses are obstructing your vision... ^^  I've been in WoW since late beta. I currently have two 90's and seven 85's.  Many of the things you consider a positive, would make me not even bother with such a game. Just two would be;  being flagged when fighting world bosses, and the open world ganking that went on in the first year to 18 months.

Having leveled to 60 on US realm deathwing (PvP) I'm painfully familiar with what goes on with such antics.  Corpse camping, roaming gank packs and large groups camping the entry portals of the dungeons.  We used to have to bring in two or three parties worth of players, just so some of our lower levels could get into the dungeons.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I see rather little in your list that would recommend such a game to me.  Given the change in demographics over the years, I suspect such a game would be a narrow niche.

All the things I loved about the PVP servers (Kel Thuzad) in vanilla WOW, and one of the reasons why I find the game not worth playing anymore.

Geez, KT was so brutal. Loved it, cant seem to find anything like it. :(

  Antiquated

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 479

3/17/13 9:38:28 AM#42
Originally posted by Wraithone

Two come to mind. Asherons Call (that was my second game). It evolved into a much better game, but sadly, the graphics are WAY too dated, and I'm not interested in going back to a corpse run game at this point.  But I very much enjoyed the two years I played it.

Anarchy Online. It pretty much had to get better, as it was almost totally unplayable the first few weeks. ^^  I'm still amazed to this day, that Funcom managed to pull out of the death dive that game was in.  But again, its very dated, and well past its use by date.

Honorable mention goes to Horizons (now Istaria). It went from a badly designed, poorly coded game, to one that is obvious that its current Dev's and core players love.  It has one of the most indept crafting systems I've seen in many years.

But again, its well past its use by date.  Over the last few years I've become a gaming nomad. I play what ever game looks entertaining, as long as its entertaining, and then move on to something else.

So, "very dated" is the verdict in all three cases, paraphased as..."not better"...right?

"Better", to me, would tend to indicate something you're more willing to play, right now.

If dated graphics are enough to chase you back into the market? Not enough better to overcome "been there, done that"?

  Comaf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1124

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

3/17/13 9:47:54 AM#43
Originally posted by Dragonantis
Who wants an MMO that would never evolve?

What is your definition of evolving?  Evolution does not always correlate to something that is functional or "fun" to play.  The devs for WoW had an explosion on their hands that they were well aware would occur (at least in part) due to their Chinese numbers being already predicted as astronomical.

 

Recall that China has a 24x7 days a week show dedicated (a channel rather) to the RPG WoW games.  Vivindi/Blizzard could have gotten fat just off of their overseas numbers - ala South Korea, Taiwan, and so forth.  America was just the icing on the cake.  This might explain why panda bears are now rampant in WoW (lol).

 

Anyway - the developers admit in a recent interview posted on these forums that there were aspects of Vanilla that people enjoyed and that there is an intent to regain some of that.

 

I used to walk into Stormwind and see a medieval fantasy city.  I go there now, and there's flying reindeer, tiny muppet pets following people in gear that comes with a half dozen strobe lights, and so forth.  It's like Disney took over the franchise - and not in a good (super heroes) sort of way.

 

The idea of evolution in this industry to (a) increase content (b) reach more player types (c) entice former players to return and most importantly (d) to offer a fun gaming experience.

Unfortunately, (b) has a way of conflicting with (d).

 

 

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3559

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

3/17/13 10:04:30 AM#44
Originally posted by Antiquated
Originally posted by Wraithone

Two come to mind. Asherons Call (that was my second game). It evolved into a much better game, but sadly, the graphics are WAY too dated, and I'm not interested in going back to a corpse run game at this point.  But I very much enjoyed the two years I played it.

Anarchy Online. It pretty much had to get better, as it was almost totally unplayable the first few weeks. ^^  I'm still amazed to this day, that Funcom managed to pull out of the death dive that game was in.  But again, its very dated, and well past its use by date.

Honorable mention goes to Horizons (now Istaria). It went from a badly designed, poorly coded game, to one that is obvious that its current Dev's and core players love.  It has one of the most indept crafting systems I've seen in many years.

But again, its well past its use by date.  Over the last few years I've become a gaming nomad. I play what ever game looks entertaining, as long as its entertaining, and then move on to something else.

So, "very dated" is the verdict in all three cases, paraphased as..."not better"...right?

"Better", to me, would tend to indicate something you're more willing to play, right now.

If dated graphics are enough to chase you back into the market? Not enough better to overcome "been there, done that"?

Dated now.  They become better games, than they started out as.  Keep in mind that "better" is very much a subjective, and covers not just the game and its perception, but also the person in question.  I've played WoW the longest of any game (I started in late beta), and end up going back to it when they have expansions and major content additions.  But once I've played what ever is new, I go play something else.

EVE online was my second longest. I spent almost six years in the game. But I left when CCP started taking the game in a direction I didn't agree with.   My main focus these days is the combat system. Followed by graphics and lore (if any).  Everyone has a different combination of factors.

  doodphace

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1191

3/17/13 10:17:50 AM#45
Something you  guys seem to always turn a blind eye to, Endgame is what keeps players playing (pure example  the huge drop off in active GW2 players). WoW had terrible endgame at launch (compared to today). All these "WoW clones" that keep failing, fail because they lack endgame content...not because they are "themeparks"... People need a "carrot on a stick", thats the point of themepark MMOs....otherwise there is no insentive to keep playing (a la Gw2).
  Alber_gamer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/08/12
Posts: 446

3/17/13 10:21:55 AM#46

Some people keep living in 2006 it seems. The game industry advances, incase you haven't noticed. People enjoy different things now than then because some themes and mechanics have been exhausted to oblivion. Vanilla WoW now would be an utter failure. It was a success in the right place, at the right time.

 

Unless you are trying to run a veiled campaign to get people interested in Wildstar. Which again, would have worked in 2006, not 2013.

My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.

  Blasphim

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/11
Posts: 347

Darkness is Death's ignorance, and the Devil's time

3/17/13 11:54:20 AM#47

WoW was a damn freak of nature, hell it still is. Blizz could in no way duplicate the perfect storm of WoW's launch, I don't think anyone could in todays market. It was awesome. But that was 8-9 years ago. Now, today, if I bought a game that was a clone of wow, an exact carbon copy of classic at release, I would play about 2 weeks, and call it done. I couldn't handle the bugs, the crashes, the restarts, the unfinished zones that they thought nobody would get to so quick, the poor quest designs, the crappy quest rewards (Hey there hero, I know you just finished traveling back and forth between the land masses five times now, killed at least half the population of gnolls and ogres, made three deliveries from the same area to the same guy, who could have just asked you to get all three those items at once, and thwarted the plans of an entire evil dragon flight, now here's your cloth boots with agi and spirit....what's that, you're a warrior...well...sorry, I just have cloth with agi and spirit).

Oh wait, you want TBC in there too...ahh okay, so you want to do away even more with world pvp, cause that's when they launched pole dancing (sorry arena lovers, call it like I see it). Harder quests? Not even close. I two manned just about every damn zone in the outlands, and all of its 5 man quests with my bro playing a druid healer and myself playing a prot warrior. And I say just about cause for some of it, it didn't require us to group. We had to have a GM reset a quest mob in Netherstorm, so we could do the quest (a 5 man quest mind you) and he watched us do it. Afterward he whispered us and said that was impressive and had no idea that could be completed with just 2 players.

That's also when they introduced the daily quest grind for reps, and flying mounts. You know, two of the things that many players say helped "ruin" the game. TBC is also when they did away with the 40 man raid, which is what you say you want to bring back. Well which is it, you want the greatness of a 40 man, or the greatness of Kara, SSC, TK, Gruul, MGT, BT, SW, ZA? And does that mean you want to do away with AQ 20, ZG?

Three factions of course, and forget the the two added races in BC? Factions in a minute, lets hit the races first, so you don't want two additional races in the game...okay, cool, I can see that. Does that mean you don't want all classes available to all as well, cause that's how they were introduced. Add to that you only want to have three races in the game period...well now you're not sounding like classic wow at all. Orcs, Humans, and Elves. Not much variety there my friend, and how are you going to balance that...all classes to all? Ok, but I fear that you're going to lose a lot of players that love to play their Tauren shammies, or Dwarf warriors. In truth, it's this part that makes me once again think you really don't want a clone of classic/TBC wow at all.

Continue with tier progression for pve gear, but use the same raids, just with different bosses? That will get old fast, even faster than always having some sort of troll raid/dungeon in every damn expac. I'm sorry, but I don't think that will work, I know for myself it wouldn't. That idea is just flawed in my opinion.

I don't think you really want a wow clone at all. I think you want a game with some features you think would be nice, set in some fantasy setting, or something, but whatever it is, it doesn't sound much like wow to me.

  Oberholzer

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/25/06
Posts: 478

3/17/13 12:01:26 PM#48
I don't see a clone doing what Vanilla did, WoW caught lightning in a bottle and I don't see anything like that happening again. I'd never say never but it jut doesn't seem likely.  
  vmoped

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 1722

3/17/13 12:02:40 PM#49
Originally posted by OgreRaper
I doubt it. Though if Blizz releases a classic server, I would resub to WoW.

Completely agree mate.

Cheers!

MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

  Karelia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/12
Posts: 688

3/17/13 12:08:40 PM#50
Originally posted by Oberholzer
I don't see a clone doing what Vanilla did, WoW caught lightning in a bottle and I don't see anything like that happening again. I'd never say never but it jut doesn't seem likely.  

 

agree 100%

  kabitoshin

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/16/12
Posts: 646

3/17/13 12:18:18 PM#51
All the Vanilla WoW talk needs to be put to rest. I'm glad i experienced, and had the best time in a game I'll probably have. Just accept that there may never be another game to give that feeling back. If I was to go back I would not have the same friends nor guild back that made the experience that it was. I still play the game and with 1 friend I known since vanilla, we run old content and just reminisce about the good times we've had.
  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11822

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

3/17/13 12:27:50 PM#52
Originally posted by BrownAle

basically the thought process for every game made since say...2006

never works if you havent noticed.

Glad to see this as the first reply.

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3026

3/17/13 12:29:46 PM#53

The problem with having a Vanilla server, or clone is that everyone that wants it has already done it.  It will be boring and stale. To put it how some described Rift when it came out "Nothing new here, it's just like WoW".  This would truly be EXACTLY like WoW.  When MoP first launched and I got my first 90, I didn't like all the dailies either, but after 5.1 and 5.2, they seemed to be going away from dailies.  Yes they're still in there, but Blizzard is bringing back open world PvP.  With objectives to capture (5.1), and new pvp dailies (5.2), it seems Blizzard is starting to play attention to both pvp and pve.  

 

I personally love 5.1 and 5.2, but no so much 5.0.  Even Blizzard has said they went a little overboard on the dailies in 5.0.  That's why there's not so many in 5.1 and 5.2 and they made the Commendations you can buy at Revered.  This helps an altoholic like myself, keep all my characters upto par.  I haven't seen so much open world pvp in WoW since Burning Crusade.  I have characters on PvE servers, and Isle of Thunder is full of people doing the new pvp dailies, and spending the rest of the day stopping others, it's a blast.  Two days ago, we had a big ~50v50 battle royal romping across the island, which brought back memories of Tarren Mill (which according to Blizzard, was thier goal).  It seems that MoP is only getting better with each content patch.  Plus Blizzard has done a good job of making almost everyone (except a few orc only players) hate Garrosh, the patch that let's us raid orgrimmar and end his reign of terror, could be the best patch of all time.

Best Game Ever? Highest game rated on Metacritic!

  kabitoshin

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/16/12
Posts: 646

3/17/13 12:36:20 PM#54
Originally posted by Gravarg

The problem with having a Vanilla server, or clone is that everyone that wants it has already done it.  It will be boring and stale. To put it how some described Rift when it came out "Nothing new here, it's just like WoW".  This would truly be EXACTLY like WoW.  When MoP first launched and I got my first 90, I didn't like all the dailies either, but after 5.1 and 5.2, they seemed to be going away from dailies.  Yes they're still in there, but Blizzard is bringing back open world PvP.  With objectives to capture (5.1), and new pvp dailies (5.2), it seems Blizzard is starting to play attention to both pvp and pve.  

 

I personally love 5.1 and 5.2, but no so much 5.0.  Even Blizzard has said they went a little overboard on the dailies in 5.0.  That's why there's not so many in 5.1 and 5.2 and they made the Commendations you can buy at Revered.  This helps an altoholic like myself, keep all my characters upto par.  I haven't seen so much open world pvp in WoW since Burning Crusade.  I have characters on PvE servers, and Isle of Thunder is full of people doing the new pvp dailies, and spending the rest of the day stopping others, it's a blast.  Two days ago, we had a big ~50v50 battle royal romping across the island, which brought back memories of Tarren Mill (which according to Blizzard, was thier goal).  It seems that MoP is only getting better with each content patch.  Plus Blizzard has done a good job of making almost everyone (except a few orc only players) hate Garrosh, the patch that let's us raid orgrimmar and end his reign of terror, could be the best patch of all time.

I agree 5.2 has been one of the best patches in a long time, and as an orc myself can't wait to end his reign of chaos!

  Purutzil

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Joined: 10/02/11
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3/17/13 12:49:32 PM#55

Nope. It would flop pretty quickly. Vanilla wow had TONS of problems with it. We all go on about nostologia and all and WOW is no exception. If it was released today it would bomb and bomb hard. Hell, a good exaple would be vanguard. It had problems at launch yes, but so did wow, but since it was released at a time when more and more MMOs were on the market it ended up falling flat very quickly. 

 

Its like going to an amusement park as a little child and then revisiting it when you get older. Actually being there again with the park having never changed, chances are your going to find its no where near as good as your younger self viewed it as and you can easily see the flaws and you would miss many modern day elements that more recent parks to visited had.

  monstermmo

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Joined: 10/08/10
Posts: 1073

3/17/13 12:54:36 PM#56

There are many valid reasons why WoW has adapted and changed so much over the years.

A clone of "vanilla WoW" would fail.

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  fierce750

Novice Member

Joined: 4/13/05
Posts: 36

3/17/13 12:55:37 PM#57

To the Op.

I personally don't think so..

Games need more content as gamers progress which is the main reasons for Expansion packs.

Everyone starts to complain and so they release new ideas, content ect ect to keep people comming back and playing.

Sure maybe the game mechanics or just overall was better at an earlier point in time but things need to change in order to continue.

Think about it, if they would have just stayed with the BC expansion and not went past it how many people would still be playing it to this day? you would have been there done that 100 million times over and everyone would have the same equipment ect ect.

A few games have went back to a Classic server system and it does fine for a while until you max out or just dont feel like doing it all over again cause you have done it before.

Any time I have ever went back to an old game like I have with Everquest, Daoc and WOW I end up playing a little bit  I might even buy a month then I end up canceling cause its just not the same. I never get that same feeling I had like when I first did my first Molten Core Raid or fought over Tauren mill.

 

Wow is just near it's end and it was great while it lasted, I'm sure it will go on and on like Everquest does but as with everything else it has gotten old and it's simply time to move on.

  waynejr2

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Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3703

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3/17/13 12:57:08 PM#58
Originally posted by Gravarg

The problem with having a Vanilla server, or clone is that everyone that wants it has already done it.  It will be boring and stale. To put it how some described Rift when it came out "Nothing new here, it's just like WoW".  This would truly be EXACTLY like WoW.  When MoP first launched and I got my first 90, I didn't like all the dailies either, but after 5.1 and 5.2, they seemed to be going away from dailies.  Yes they're still in there, but Blizzard is bringing back open world PvP.  With objectives to capture (5.1), and new pvp dailies (5.2), it seems Blizzard is starting to play attention to both pvp and pve.  

 

I personally love 5.1 and 5.2, but no so much 5.0.  Even Blizzard has said they went a little overboard on the dailies in 5.0.  That's why there's not so many in 5.1 and 5.2 and they made the Commendations you can buy at Revered.  This helps an altoholic like myself, keep all my characters upto par.  I haven't seen so much open world pvp in WoW since Burning Crusade.  I have characters on PvE servers, and Isle of Thunder is full of people doing the new pvp dailies, and spending the rest of the day stopping others, it's a blast.  Two days ago, we had a big ~50v50 battle royal romping across the island, which brought back memories of Tarren Mill (which according to Blizzard, was thier goal).  It seems that MoP is only getting better with each content patch.  Plus Blizzard has done a good job of making almost everyone (except a few orc only players) hate Garrosh, the patch that let's us raid orgrimmar and end his reign of terror, could be the best patch of all time.

 People have done it before and now they have so many years into their characters they want to keep the "investment" going.

Sure some people would play it but it won't kill MoP/WOW.  TBC killed vanilla in sub numbers so there is no basis to think vanilla was more successful.

I loved vanilla but I loved TBC more overall.  There were pockets of things that I missed, like old AV but much more improved in TBC.

People want to move forward not backwards in their gaming lives. 

  User Deleted
 
OP  3/17/13 6:09:33 PM#59
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by Gravarg

The problem with having a Vanilla server, or clone is that everyone that wants it has already done it.  It will be boring and stale. To put it how some described Rift when it came out "Nothing new here, it's just like WoW".  This would truly be EXACTLY like WoW.  When MoP first launched and I got my first 90, I didn't like all the dailies either, but after 5.1 and 5.2, they seemed to be going away from dailies.  Yes they're still in there, but Blizzard is bringing back open world PvP.  With objectives to capture (5.1), and new pvp dailies (5.2), it seems Blizzard is starting to play attention to both pvp and pve.  

 

I personally love 5.1 and 5.2, but no so much 5.0.  Even Blizzard has said they went a little overboard on the dailies in 5.0.  That's why there's not so many in 5.1 and 5.2 and they made the Commendations you can buy at Revered.  This helps an altoholic like myself, keep all my characters upto par.  I haven't seen so much open world pvp in WoW since Burning Crusade.  I have characters on PvE servers, and Isle of Thunder is full of people doing the new pvp dailies, and spending the rest of the day stopping others, it's a blast.  Two days ago, we had a big ~50v50 battle royal romping across the island, which brought back memories of Tarren Mill (which according to Blizzard, was thier goal).  It seems that MoP is only getting better with each content patch.  Plus Blizzard has done a good job of making almost everyone (except a few orc only players) hate Garrosh, the patch that let's us raid orgrimmar and end his reign of terror, could be the best patch of all time.

 People have done it before and now they have so many years into their characters they want to keep the "investment" going.

Sure some people would play it but it won't kill MoP/WOW.  TBC killed vanilla in sub numbers so there is no basis to think vanilla was more successful.

I loved vanilla but I loved TBC more overall.  There were pockets of things that I missed, like old AV but much more improved in TBC.

People want to move forward not backwards in their gaming lives. 

So after reading all the post it seems that players from our community anyways seems that The Vanilla WoW days were nice but a game needs to progress. I agree unfortently Blizz took to much time to progress in the correct way for many players and that cost them subs. Now if they can keep on a good track with 5.1 and 5.2 then maybe who know maybe they can stop losing players. But the harsh reality of it is perhaps to little to late. just my opionion btw kind of reminds me of a AB bg when your side is losing and everyone decides to play as a team for the last 3 mins of the the bg and get off the rds and start to hold bases and fight on the flags well lol to little to late.

  User Deleted
 
OP  3/17/13 6:12:54 PM#60
Originally posted by Comaf
Originally posted by Dragonantis
Who wants an MMO that would never evolve?

What is your definition of evolving?  Evolution does not always correlate to something that is functional or "fun" to play.  The devs for WoW had an explosion on their hands that they were well aware would occur (at least in part) due to their Chinese numbers being already predicted as astronomical.

 

Recall that China has a 24x7 days a week show dedicated (a channel rather) to the RPG WoW games.  Vivindi/Blizzard could have gotten fat just off of their overseas numbers - ala South Korea, Taiwan, and so forth.  America was just the icing on the cake.  This might explain why panda bears are now rampant in WoW (lol).

 

Anyway - the developers admit in a recent interview posted on these forums that there were aspects of Vanilla that people enjoyed and that there is an intent to regain some of that.

 

I used to walk into Stormwind and see a medieval fantasy city.  I go there now, and there's flying reindeer, tiny muppet pets following people in gear that comes with a half dozen strobe lights, and so forth.  It's like Disney took over the franchise - and not in a good (super heroes) sort of way.

 

The idea of evolution in this industry to (a) increase content (b) reach more player types (c) entice former players to return and most importantly (d) to offer a fun gaming experience.

Unfortunately, (b) has a way of conflicting with (d).

 

 

Im surprised that Disney has not tried to buy out Blizz yet. lol  Ya you are right (b) does have a way of conflicting with (d).

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