Originally posted by CalmOceans

 

Why should games be changed if a few individuals have bad communication skill. If you're LFG for 10 hours the issue is your inability to communicate and socialise.

And why shouldn't game be changed if many individuals don't want to communicate?

Originally posted by KaosProphet

Originally posted by daltanious
Question should be "Do you love LFG-ing for 10 hours to be able to play 1 hour?". No, I do not. So I'm pro LFG system all way up and down.

Given how dull and mechanical that 1 hour often is, I probably enjoyed the LFGing more anyway.

Or rather, I would have if it weren't spent interacting with the same people who'd rather be running that dull and mechanical hour.  Particularly the ones who view the dullness itself as a necessary 'content-gating' mechanism.   But this goes back to "LFG system isn't the problem."

 

In reality, I'd rather spend 10 hours trying to get 1 good hour than 5 minutes trying to get 10 series of dull hours going.

If you think running dungeons is dull, you should not play those MMOs with dungeons. If you enjoy LFG more .. go to a chatroom.

For people who think running dungeon is fun, LFD is a good feature.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by jimdandy26
Does it in and of itself, no. Is it a mechanic that reinforces playstyles that do, yes. As soon as a game company takes away having to know and play well with others in order to progress you weaken and eventually destroy the bonds that form a decent community. Raids and instances were not originally designed to be pugged. There is a reason why the military uses similar game like mechanics in order to build team skills.

Because team skill is actuall important in combat, unlike entertainment product, which the goal is to have fun.

 

Careful now. Its much harder to define "fun". Especially when you are breaking down what people find fun and the reasons they find it fun. A large part of what has made WoW a success for example is not that it is fun, its that its a skinner box. Similar to many ways in how Zynga has designed most of its titles. I personally do not play mmo's to pug constantly. Even considering how much easier the content itself must be made in order to accomodate the lack of ties and teamwork, I would rather play with people I know, or atleast have a realistic chance to get to know, thanks to having similar interests. While I do not say that my way is the best way, or that even all games should adopt that playstyle, its pretty undeniable that making actions have some sort of consequences, to have relationships have meaning, does nothing but improve community interaction.

Originally posted by jimdandy26

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by jimdandy26
Does it in and of itself, no. Is it a mechanic that reinforces playstyles that do, yes. As soon as a game company takes away having to know and play well with others in order to progress you weaken and eventually destroy the bonds that form a decent community. Raids and instances were not originally designed to be pugged. There is a reason why the military uses similar game like mechanics in order to build team skills.

Because team skill is actuall important in combat, unlike entertainment product, which the goal is to have fun.

 

Careful now. Its much harder to define "fun". Especially when you are breaking down what people find fun and the reasons they find it fun. A large part of what has made WoW a success for example is not that it is fun, its that its a skinner box. Similar to many ways in how Zynga has designed most of its titles. I personally do not play mmo's to pug constantly. Even considering how much easier the content itself must be made in order to accomodate the lack of ties and teamwork, I would rather play with people I know, or atleast have a realistic chance to get to know, thanks to having similar interests. While I do not say that my way is the best way, or that even all games should adopt that playstyle, its pretty undeniable that making actions have some sort of consequences, to have relationships have meaning, does nothing but improve community interaction.

Why do you think skinner box is not fun? Fun is pleasure derived from activities you choose to do. Don't tell me reward response in skinner box don't provide some pleasure.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by jimdandy26

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by jimdandy26
Does it in and of itself, no. Is it a mechanic that reinforces playstyles that do, yes. As soon as a game company takes away having to know and play well with others in order to progress you weaken and eventually destroy the bonds that form a decent community. Raids and instances were not originally designed to be pugged. There is a reason why the military uses similar game like mechanics in order to build team skills.

Because team skill is actuall important in combat, unlike entertainment product, which the goal is to have fun.

 

Careful now. Its much harder to define "fun". Especially when you are breaking down what people find fun and the reasons they find it fun. A large part of what has made WoW a success for example is not that it is fun, its that its a skinner box. Similar to many ways in how Zynga has designed most of its titles. I personally do not play mmo's to pug constantly. Even considering how much easier the content itself must be made in order to accomodate the lack of ties and teamwork, I would rather play with people I know, or atleast have a realistic chance to get to know, thanks to having similar interests. While I do not say that my way is the best way, or that even all games should adopt that playstyle, its pretty undeniable that making actions have some sort of consequences, to have relationships have meaning, does nothing but improve community interaction.

Why do you think skinner box is not fun? Fun is pleasure derived from activities you choose to do. Don't tell me reward response in skinner box don't provide some pleasure.

 

It isn't. That generally why its called a trap. It becomes a programmed response. Its a large part of the reason why there are so many claims to being "addicted" to WoW and its like.

I think the cross server LFG tool is the worst, I am not a big fan of the tool as it is, but if it was atleast confined to the server you play on, it would better.....Sure the cross server type may be quick to get the group, but I think you sacrifice your server community in the process.

I think multiples things ruin the community, the move to everyone can solo most content, with railed quest hubs isn't doing much for it either.

Originally posted by Xthos

I think the cross server LFG tool is the worst, I am not a big fan of the tool as it is, but if it was atleast confined to the server you play on, it would better.....Sure the cross server type may be quick to get the group, but I think you sacrifice your server community in the process.

 

I think multiples things ruin the community, the move to everyone can solo most content, with railed quest hubs isn't doing much for it either.

 

I don't care about a server community. The game community is bigger and better. Why restrict to a single server? If the goal is to make friends, have a bigger pool.

Cross server LFG tool is the best. In fact, it would be even better to have cross GAME lfg tool. At least we have some cross game social tools like friend list.

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by Alberel

Players come to rely upon the automated LFG tools and no longer bother to communicate any more. It completely replaces the part where players used to talk to each other to find other people for their group. It may make it easier to play together with other people but that alone does not make a community. You need that forced communication to break the ice and get players talking in order for them to find friendships, without it they'll just follow in silence.

 

At least one person gets it.

 

     Make me the 2nd person.. My experience in early EQ was by far the best for community interaction.. It was not perfect, but everything since has been a step backwards.. Rather it was grouping, looking for a port, buff or help in a CR, you had to socilaize to some point, or the game became frustrating.. With todays LFG, why have a friends list?  Think about it!  In EQ, my friends list was my LFG tool.. If for some reason no one was on, and the zone was slow, I would just solo and tinker around as I always had things that could be done..

Perhaps this thread should be titled... "Does laziness really ruin the community?"... because in essence, it is laziness that brought about the LFG system in the first place.  People don't stop playing games because they don't get to see content... they stop playing games because they easily get to see it.  No carrot to chase, it's already jullianed for you sitting in a microwave.  100% success wears thin pretty quickly... it's why the realm populations thin out the way they do.

I predict 100% soloable or NPC created bots in the future of MMORPGs.  You're already seeing the shift towards it.  Long queue times means unhappy customers... to speed things up, start using NPCs... since you can't fail and you don't speak to one another, there is no need to actually use real players.

LOL, wouldn't it be a hoot to find out Blizzard already has been using bots?  That some of those people in your group really aren't other players at all.  You'd never know the difference, nor would you care.

Hence, community is dead because the players prefer no community to begin with.  Well atleast those that still bother to play... those that left, did care.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Xthos

I think the cross server LFG tool is the worst, I am not a big fan of the tool as it is, but if it was atleast confined to the server you play on, it would better.....Sure the cross server type may be quick to get the group, but I think you sacrifice your server community in the process.

 

I think multiples things ruin the community, the move to everyone can solo most content, with railed quest hubs isn't doing much for it either.

 

I don't care about a server community. The game community is bigger and better. Why restrict to a single server? If the goal is to make friends, have a bigger pool.

Cross server LFG tool is the best. In fact, it would be even better to have cross GAME lfg tool. At least we have some cross game social tools like friend list.

It's bigger, but being better is your opinion. Smaller communities are better for some people and the social dynamics are more interesting, because people know each other, and everybody can't just do what they want if they want to be respected by other players. Cross-server system breaks the social dynamics, there's nothing anymore, you just have random chats with people you probably don't meet again, which is cool too, but it doesn't mature and evolve the social circle. I don't think the goal is to make more and more friends. Some friends are made, but sometimes you make enemies too and sometimes something between. To me though, the cross-server LFG system is not good even for making "friends", it doesn't promote anykind of social interaction.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Xthos

I think the cross server LFG tool is the worst, I am not a big fan of the tool as it is, but if it was atleast confined to the server you play on, it would better.....Sure the cross server type may be quick to get the group, but I think you sacrifice your server community in the process.

 

I think multiples things ruin the community, the move to everyone can solo most content, with railed quest hubs isn't doing much for it either.

 

I don't care about a server community. The game community is bigger and better. Why restrict to a single server? If the goal is to make friends, have a bigger pool.

Cross server LFG tool is the best. In fact, it would be even better to have cross GAME lfg tool. At least we have some cross game social tools like friend list.

Bigger pool != more opportunity for friendship, actually quite the opposite. Society larger than tribal systems are frighteningly new, and in many ways humans have not adapted to it at all yet.

Ruin the community? No. Ruin the game experience? Yes. When games started implementing LFG systems, groups instantly became harder to keep together. There's no accountability or comeraderie when you group with 5 strangers. Add to that forced grouping for certain quests and it was a very big factor in driving me away from MMOs. Relying on flaky kids who dc 20 minutes into an hour+ dungeon crawl is not my idea of a good time. Get wiped out once and half the group leaves.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by CalmOceans

 

Why should games be changed if a few individuals have bad communication skill. If you're LFG for 10 hours the issue is your inability to communicate and socialise.

And why shouldn't game be changed if many individuals don't want to communicate?

 

Why are you trying to get a group if you don't want to communicate.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Xthos

I think the cross server LFG tool is the worst, I am not a big fan of the tool as it is, but if it was atleast confined to the server you play on, it would better.....Sure the cross server type may be quick to get the group, but I think you sacrifice your server community in the process.

 

I think multiples things ruin the community, the move to everyone can solo most content, with railed quest hubs isn't doing much for it either.

 

I don't care about a server community. The game community is bigger and better. Why restrict to a single server? If the goal is to make friends, have a bigger pool.

Cross server LFG tool is the best. In fact, it would be even better to have cross GAME lfg tool. At least we have some cross game social tools like friend list.

Looking over your posts, you are either:

1. someone who purpously trolls topics to get a rise out of people by posting the opposite of what everyone has experienced

2. someone very new to MMO

I'm going to guess 1, since you purpously seem to want to instigate by posting controversial and misguided opinions.

In case I'm wrong..Cross server grouping does two things, it breaks up the community because you're now playing with people you will never see again, and it allows people to get away with misbehavior in groups since they have unlimited grouping opportunities.

You can't really ask such a broad question OP.  In what context are we talking?  

LFG doesn't ruin newer themepark MMO's because most players have an established group/guild they've been playing with for years.  Most of those people don't give a shit about anyone outside of their circle.

LFG would absolutely ruin oldschool MMO's because all accountability and reputation would be lost.  Those were very important aspects back then and have been lost.

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Cross server grouping does two things, it breaks up the community because you're now playing with people you will never see again, and it allows people to get away with misbehavior in groups since they have unlimited grouping opportunities.

Does more things also. Helps me get a group fast when i have only 45min-1h to play, which happens a lot with age for most of us. No LFG tool for me equals playing (mostly) alone. How is that more social than leveling with others, evein if I don't meet them ever again?

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Xthos

I think the cross server LFG tool is the worst, I am not a big fan of the tool as it is, but if it was atleast confined to the server you play on, it would better.....Sure the cross server type may be quick to get the group, but I think you sacrifice your server community in the process.

 

I think multiples things ruin the community, the move to everyone can solo most content, with railed quest hubs isn't doing much for it either.

 

I don't care about a server community. The game community is bigger and better. Why restrict to a single server? If the goal is to make friends, have a bigger pool.

Cross server LFG tool is the best. In fact, it would be even better to have cross GAME lfg tool. At least we have some cross game social tools like friend list.

Looking over your posts, you are either:

1. someone who purpously trolls topics to get a rise out of people by posting the opposite of what everyone has experienced

2. someone very new to MMO

I'm going to guess 1, since you purpously seem to want to instigate by posting controversial and misguided opinions.

In case I'm wrong..Cross server grouping does two things, it breaks up the community because you're now playing with people you will never see again, and it allows people to get away with misbehavior in groups since they have unlimited grouping opportunities.

He has already stated that he doesn't care about the groups he plays with, and quits out of games at the drop of a dime, since they are made to be fun, so I think I will ignore any social gaming advice from someone that most people would not want to play with. 

His type of fun=ruining others fun, I am not saying a game is more important than rl, but to not even care if you are screwing over other people that are real people too.  They are trying to play and have fun also, not to be online and treated like a npc and if you screw them over, who cares?

Of course he loves cross server, so people do not catch on to him screwing them over, while if it was server only, it would probably get around pretty quickly.

Absolutely not.

People have this nostalgic fantasy that LFG systems are making people group up in an anti-social, silent, impersonal fashion, instead of talking and making friends.

The silent and impersonal people in your group? If the LFG system wasn't there, they wouldn't either. They'd be soloing.

LFG systems provide a low-stress way for people who just want to play a game, rather than deal with the time and (often) frustration of forming a group. They mean far, far more people engaged in multiplayer play rather than playing solo, and imho, only help the community.

I played wow before the lfg system...  I don't see any community.  I mean I spam chat for 1 hour to look for a group and the group break up after the dungeon is done.

You don't need a community when the dungeon is easy enough that you can pug.  Only time I ever need to form a community is when the dungeon is hard enough that require me to play with the same people over and over again.