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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » People say they find the old school "Grind" yet if given the option to skip it, would they take it?

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148 posts found
  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6027

 
OP  3/16/13 9:42:24 AM#1

Lot of people in the community say they enjoy the old school grinding that progression required in older MMOs.

But what if the same game offered options to players to choose to skip that grind?

would most of these people that enjoy the grind, use this option to skip the grind? I believe most people would.

but if that were the case, than that would mean "the grind" really wasn't enjoyable to begin with.

 

example:

if a MMO had 100 levels and each level took a really long time time to level, and could be set back by death Penality.

Most effective way to level is by mob grinding.

this fits old school grind model.

but add the option for players to skip all the leveling "if they choose"

how many fans of this old school mob level grinding, would use this option?

 

Doesn't seem fun, if willing to skip it.

playing Tetris,if I am having fun, why would I want to skip the fun? No point of that unless I wasn't having fun doing whatever that is.

but in MMO the grinding has been held up as being the greatest thing ever, but if most people would skip it at a heart beat if given the choice, that obviously its not as enjoyable as people believe.

  StoneRoses

Novice Member

Joined: 9/13/09
Posts: 911

3/16/13 9:43:47 AM#2
Don't do it, it's a trap!

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5540

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

3/16/13 9:47:06 AM#3
I guess my vote doesn't count since I'm not a fan.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  mucki

Novice Member

Joined: 12/11/12
Posts: 1

3/16/13 10:03:52 AM#4

i muz say i kinda like both but dont wanna see both "styles" optional in the same game.

i started playing mmorpgaming with the ftp game "rappelz" and it had max level 150 n a few ppl hit 120 after like 3 years... i still love the game but prolly cuz its my virgin. :p didnt play it since 6 years or so :p

on the other side guild wars n aion, or those 1-2 month for max level games n a bit of grinding, have their charm as well.

~

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/16/13 10:10:28 AM#5
Well besides the fact that grind itself does not actually exist, and is a term to define content that you do not like (aka work) I have to disagree because of the basic psychological need to do tasks the most efficient way possible. During Wow's initial beta "rested xp" was actually flipped and termed negatively (something along the lines of "tired" I forget the exact nomenclature). It was done this way to encourage people to log in daily. After lots of complaints Blizzard did nothing else than change the name to "rested xp" to give it a positive spin and it was widely accepted.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  ThomasN7

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6656

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

3/16/13 10:12:52 AM#6
The old school grind was the best because for me it is all about the journey an not the destination. 
  Ortwig

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1047

3/16/13 10:23:01 AM#7
People say they hate grind, but when it is removed people whine about not having "enough to do."
  Xthos

Elite Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2648

3/16/13 10:23:11 AM#8

I would use the 'delete' option and not play that silly game.

 

They already have a option to skip the 'grind', its called railed quest hubs, go try to grind in a game, then go complete the quest hub, one is MUCH quicker.

 

These super railed games, seem to have the effect of 'delete' on me too, I find them boring, faster and faster, the more railed and directed, the faster it is.  I lasted 1 game session in GW2, couldn't get into the classes I tried in beta some, and the one I chose at launch to try...TOR...my free month....Rift 2 months (stayed 3, but hardly touched it the 3rd, and left with 3 months paid, due to never playing a mmo for less than a year before this).... 

 

Paying a sub and something being free will not keep me playing, if something is bland and I do not think worth me playing any more, I am done, no matter if they even paid me a sub to keep playing their game. 

 

So if a game had a option "2" to make me uber, click 'here', it would never even get on my computer.

 

  mmoski

Novice Member

Joined: 6/27/08
Posts: 263

3/16/13 10:24:19 AM#9

If I feel I'm grinding in a game, it's time to stop playing and play something else. If games present the same repetitive action and events, that end in the same manner over and over again without a need for thought, then I would happily skip that to find the fun in a game (THE END GAME) and then you can see the true colours of a game. I think diversity in a games mechanisms is more important than adding additional content to keep players interested.

 

  Kobao

Novice Member

Joined: 12/31/12
Posts: 16

3/16/13 10:24:23 AM#10

Odd way to think about it.... I think the interesting and fun part is to find those more or less efficient ways doing the "grind". It requires people are forced to do the "grind". That forcing is actually fun, because it wouldn't even be game if it didn't force some sort of rules on you. People probably stop playing the game if the "grind" isn't fun to at least some extent, or at least should. Many would probably use the skipping method, but that's just because it happens to be the fastest route to the goal, but it doesn't mean they wouldn't enjoy the grind and that they won't regret skipping. It's easy to take that route, but it's rarely fulfilling. The skipping method breaks the game.

  Jackdog

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/19/04
Posts: 6374

3/16/13 10:24:35 AM#11
in a FPS you are born into the world with all your abilities, in a RPG you evolve. To evolve you have to play or "grind" live with it or go play an FPS

I miss DAoC

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3542

Hipster

3/16/13 10:26:34 AM#12
It's the old if you want permadeath delete your character when you die fallacy. If the game is designed with an optional get out clause people will take it as they are in competition with one another. People who want an old school game want it to be designed from the ground up that way without opt outs.
  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4798

3/16/13 10:44:36 AM#13

No one likes the grind, they like the effort it takes to get the reward. The same ppl who would opt out of the grind are the same people who would be bored in days complaining about lack of content never realizing it was their own fault.

When people want old school what they really want is something worth while at the end. It's the feeling of acomplishment that's missing from so many games. They add the time sink and forget to add the meaningful reward...or worse have nothing worth while at the end game.

So if a game had the option to skip all the grind I wouldn't play it. I'm not looking for free hand out and don't beleive a game would be fun if you added a " power lvl me " option.

There's a saying about evolution and why we have two eyes and two ears but only one mouth. Clearly it didn't see the internet coming or it never would have given us ten fingers to type with.

  Vunak23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/27/10
Posts: 659

In your house Eatin' your Cookies!

3/16/13 10:46:55 AM#14
This is a dumb question. Give someone the choice to skip any grind and they will take it 9/10 times. 

"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  zekeofev

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/11
Posts: 224

3/16/13 11:11:58 AM#15

I really like great rewards at the end of great tasks. Tasks can be time intensive (such as a grind) or skill intensive (The release difficulty of WoW heroics during BC era).

 

But if you have a cash shop option to skip the grind suddenly many people will have the great reward and the task of beating it to get something is much more meaningless.

 

I used to be a master alchemist in Asheron's Call. It took so much time to level this non combat skill up to a good level. Yet I was sought after because I was one of the few people who could craft some of the top end items and had a good success rate on dying armor harder colors.

 

That grind was extremely rewarding for me. Yet, if you give people an option to avoid that grind suddenly everyone can become a master alchemist and it would be a dimished reward.

 

 

Sometimes the harshness of the task boosts what a reward is worth to you.

  Ratero

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 307

3/16/13 11:18:09 AM#16

With the "Old School Grind" the "Old School Players" enjoyed the grind because the leveling process took so long.  It took you a lot of  time invested in the game to get each and every precious level and once you obtained it, you gained access to new abilities which were like little Christmas presents since they took so long to get.  You had the feeling that you had plenty of time to explore and to socialize and just plain farm items for newbie characters and give them away for free just to help someone out when they first started playing the game.  We took the time to take newbie players under our wings and show them where to go and what to do until they understood how to play the game.

Now... Say that the max levelel was say 20 and while this does not sound to high, in a game like "Legends of Kesmai" a level 20 character with level 20 skill was very powerful indeed.  If there was a way to jump from a brand new dock baby (a new character spawned on the docks in LoK... hence the name dock baby) to a level 20 Character few people would take that route for a few reasons.

The first reason is: Why would you want to play a game where you were instantly max level and skill?  There really would be nothing to do?  Nothing would be a challenge.  Nothing would be beyond your ability to kill.  In a word it would be "boring".

The second reason is that in the "Old School Games" your level was not really tied to your skill level.  You may be max level but if you had level 1 skills then you would be pretty much dead meat on when you got a tad over your head.  In the "Old School Games" having more "skill ranks" was more important than actual "levels" in your class.

These days..... People want things given to them instantly.  They must grind to max level the moment the servers first go on-line.  They treat the game as a 24/7 job not something that was designed for enjoyment and for you to take your time on.  People want other people to give them the highest level gear and a ton of gold just because they just created their first character and don't know what to do and are unwilling to even attempt to try to learn the game.  These days it's the "Give Me, Give Me, Give Me, Now, Now, Now, I Want, I Want I Want" Generation.

Give me the "Old School Grind" and the "Old School Players" anytime over the alternatives we have today.

Ratero.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12258

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

3/16/13 11:21:18 AM#17
Originally posted by Vunak23
This is a dumb question. Give someone the choice to skip any grind and they will take it 9/10 times. 

He's using the word grind to intentionally color the question. Then again, has he ever created a post that poses a question where it wasn't intentionally leading or based on a false premise?  People here latch onto keywords so that's a consistently effective tool for creating epic threads on these boards. 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17212

3/16/13 11:25:35 AM#18

Well, I'm currently playing Aion and just loaded up Lineage 2 and I prefer the "going out and hunting" type of game play.

I'll take a quest in Aion but after I finish killing 20 of something I'll just stay there and relax and hunt for a bit. I do the same thing in Tera.

Sometimes quests can be fun if there is a good story or premise but many times it's just running around disrupted with small tasks.

 

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13389

3/16/13 11:26:58 AM#19
People who say they want leveling to be slow tend to mean that they want leveling to be slow for everyone else.
  darkhalf357x

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 1108

I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?

3/16/13 11:28:47 AM#20

If you remove the grind you are not playing an MMORPG.   The grind *IS* the game.  The key is giving it meaningful context which has been lacking lately.  Currently grind is being interpreted as essentially an action game with attributes you change over time.

Such a small representation of what a true RPG could be.  Everquest was a true RPG.  You went through the (boring) grind to see new areas and get new items.  What you didnt have was enough to push you to get it.  You control over your character and its evolving growth.  All of this is gone. 

I feel it is happening because the gaming public is changing.  To me they lack the patience and investment required for the older style games.  Its just faster to churn out games you can max quickly to get a instant return.  But then they all run into the same problem of a HUGE drop off since all the (simple) content has been consumed.

It will take an independent developer/publisher to change this because the global ones are stupid and revenue driven.  Just the way things are.

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