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Divergence Online

Divergence 

General Discussion  » 02/2013 - Divergence back on indiegogo.com

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24 posts found
  Yrratic

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/08
Posts: 12

 
OP  2/26/13 9:20:41 AM#1
  EthanC

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/14/06
Posts: 39

2/26/13 11:22:33 PM#2

Trying as hard as I can :P

It's almost up to 3K though already in less than a week! We just need to find a good venue to raise awareness of what we're trying to do.

www.Divergence-Online.com

  Mattisx

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/13
Posts: 14

3/14/13 7:31:17 PM#3

Up to 6k now.

Not bad.

  Shakkles

Novice Member

Joined: 1/07/05
Posts: 62

He who is called "I am."

3/14/13 9:11:47 PM#4
6.5 now gogogo!
  HikaruShidou

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/07
Posts: 128

3/14/13 9:57:53 PM#5

I funded $100. It seems like you have a big dream and lots of potential in this game. I wish the best for it because I'd really like to play it!

It really does remind me of Starwars Galaxies in terms of building and resources, etc. I LOVED SWG. So this will possibly be one of the best if executed right.

I'm a little bummed the vindicator can't be cloned :-/ but I guess that's how it is >_<

 

Pro-tip: Advertise where gamers mingle. Steam and Origin are the two biggest gamer clusters. If you can start a awareness thread there without it being deleted then you will gain awareness. Reddit is a major player in awareness too.

  Fraden

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/05
Posts: 55

Why am I even typing this?

3/15/13 11:54:04 PM#6
Go team DO! :)

(It sucks you dont wanna see it)

  Panther2103

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/09/08
Posts: 2079

3/15/13 11:58:25 PM#7
Is there a reason it's on indiegogo and not kickstarter? I feel like it would get more attention on kickstarter
  Mattisx

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/13
Posts: 14

3/16/13 12:40:32 AM#8

Indiegogo gives a plan where you can keep most of the funds if you don't reach the goal.

Quote from kickstarter: "on Kickstarter, you either reach your funding goal or you don’t.  If you get 99.99% of your funding goal, you’ll leave empty handed when the timer runs out.  Keep that in mind."

  LordVe

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/13
Posts: 4

3/18/13 9:06:18 PM#9
Using IndieGoGo allows him to get what he can in funding now, and later, he can try to get the rest. 
  HikaruShidou

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/07
Posts: 128

3/18/13 9:25:10 PM#10
Originally posted by LordVe
Using IndieGoGo allows him to get what he can in funding now, and later, he can try to get the rest. 

Basically, exactly what LordVe just said...

The game has very very little advertising out there. Hardly anyone knows it exists. Even though many people are looking for a game like this to be in development, it's still having a hard time going viral.

So having an indiegogo allows him to collect money as he goes. He can start a new one later on when he needs more funding to match what he didn't get this time. Of course, I'd rather see him get a lot of funding now so he can hire help and get this game going faster.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2780

3/18/13 9:55:24 PM#11

 Divergence is a quite interesting idea for a MMO. However when I read posts responded by him. I question this project.

 What trade secrets has he come up with to possibly allow such a highly detailed massive world to exsist and how come no one else has figured it out?

 How does this game in a Pre-Alpha state look better than any game has in over 6 years in the gaming universe? 

 I personally question this title and or developer behind it, while I would love to see the game come into exsistance those trade secrets are too far fetch for me to believe and I'm not taking the bait.

However, best of luck and I'd love to see the outcome of the project if it attains the funding.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  LordVe

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/13
Posts: 4

3/19/13 1:33:42 PM#12
If I were to say; "He knows what he is doing, unlike most.", it would lead to a flame war.  So I will explain it in a way that will make some understand, and others rather confused.

Games currently are programmed rather crappy.  There is no way around it, they just are.  In the past, think 386/486 days, programs were written in such a way as to get the most out of the hardware the program was running on.   Think about that for a moment.  In those days, they had hardware that had less power than a graphing calculator does.  They had no choice but to get the most out of what they had.

Since then, as computers have gotten faster and have gained resources that would have boggled the minds of programmers of that era, programmers have gotten lazy.  With the advent of Languages like Java and the .Net CLR, programmers have been allowed to ignore, for the most part, all the low-level things like Memory Management.  For little apps, this isn't much of an issue.  Why worry about a program using 10MB of Ram when most systems have at least 2GB?  The answer is simple.  Just because they have Ram, doesn't mean that they have FREE Ram.  Don't forget, you don't just have your program running, you have the overhead of an OS to deal with, and Windows is not programmed very well in the Resource Management Department to begin with, and the overhead of any other program that is currently running.

Take that program that is using 10MB of Ram as an example of the laziness that has crept over modern programmers.  With a bit of time, the program in question could be made to use only 1MB of Ram.  How you ask?  Quite simply, by using the Memory correctly, and by only using what you actually need.  A program does not need to send a copy of an object to a method when a Reference would do just as well.  A program does not need to use an Int32 for a number that will never go above 65,535.  An UnSigned Int16 would do fine in that case or if the number is less than 255, an Unsigned Int8.  Every little bit counts when it comes to Memory.  Think of all the Objects that a game contains.  Think of all the Memory that is wasted by improper use of Types.

As to how Divergence can look better, Better Management of the Video Memory comes to mind.  If someone has a good grasp of the concept, it isn't hard to show more for less.  Take the end of the Video where he is going around with his friend.  You see him turn up the Draw Distance and see quite a lot.  Even I was astonished by the view.  Then I thought of how it could be done.  My best guess is that he programmed it to take into account the distance and what you actually see.  If you were looking at it in Real Life, think of what you see, and what you actually don't.  If you program your Renderer to only show what a player can actually see, and program it to show it in a definition that corresponds with the distance, and to ignore rendering what the player can't, you can have a High level of detail at minimal Memory Costs.  You don't need to see the blades of grass of a hill 300 meters away.

This is fine and all for someone standing still, you say.  How can it still be like that for a person that is moving?  My answer, Pre-Rendering.  The engine knows where a player is, it knows where it is looking, and it knows where it is going.  If I know a player is moving at x speed in y direction, I can begin the process of Rendering the view ahead in higher detail and lowering the detail behind.  

Now, all this isn't to say that any person will be able to run the game at the maximum Draw distance and definition.  Most people won't since their computers are not up for it.  But there is nothing to say that next year or the year after, hardware able to do so will be cheap enough for you to buy.  So, Modern games are created to run on less powerful hardware.  (It is a method of giving everyone the same experience when playing.)


TL;DR:  

Most programmers don't use Ram wisely and Most computers wouldn't be able to run such high-end graphics so Programmers don't bother.
  Mattisx

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/13
Posts: 14

3/19/13 7:01:21 PM#13
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

 Divergence is a quite interesting idea for a MMO. However when I read posts responded by him. I question this project.

 What trade secrets has he come up with to possibly allow such a highly detailed massive world to exsist and how come no one else has figured it out?

 How does this game in a Pre-Alpha state look better than any game has in over 6 years in the gaming universe? 

 I personally question this title and or developer behind it, while I would love to see the game come into exsistance those trade secrets are too far fetch for me to believe and I'm not taking the bait.

However, best of luck and I'd love to see the outcome of the project if it attains the funding.

Check out GW2, Firefall or any number of other modern sandbox mmos and you can see that there are pretty amazing examples of high quality graphics out there.  From what I've seen of the graphics of Divergence, it doesn't really look like it's ahead of those it's competing with, but graphics aren't the most important aspect of a game.

If you are comparing this engine to a 6-year old engine... well, there's your flaw.  WoW has shitty graphics and is a bad comparison for sandbox mmos.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2780

3/19/13 8:41:03 PM#14
Originally posted by Mattisx
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

 Divergence is a quite interesting idea for a MMO. However when I read posts responded by him. I question this project.

 What trade secrets has he come up with to possibly allow such a highly detailed massive world to exsist and how come no one else has figured it out?

 How does this game in a Pre-Alpha state look better than any game has in over 6 years in the gaming universe? 

 I personally question this title and or developer behind it, while I would love to see the game come into exsistance those trade secrets are too far fetch for me to believe and I'm not taking the bait.

However, best of luck and I'd love to see the outcome of the project if it attains the funding.

Check out GW2, Firefall or any number of other modern sandbox mmos and you can see that there are pretty amazing examples of high quality graphics out there.  From what I've seen of the graphics of Divergence, it doesn't really look like it's ahead of those it's competing with, but graphics aren't the most important aspect of a game.

If you are comparing this engine to a 6-year old engine... well, there's your flaw.  WoW has shitty graphics and is a bad comparison for sandbox mmos.

I'm speaking about the graphics quality of their game in its pre alpha stage which was in 2006 compared other games that were being created in 2006. Your comparing divergence's graphics to games in 2013. 


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2780

3/19/13 8:47:13 PM#15
Originally posted by LordVe
If I were to say; "He knows what he is doing, unlike most.", it would lead to a flame war.  So I will explain it in a way that will make some understand, and others rather confused.

Games currently are programmed rather crappy.  There is no way around it, they just are.  In the past, think 386/486 days, programs were written in such a way as to get the most out of the hardware the program was running on.   Think about that for a moment.  In those days, they had hardware that had less power than a graphing calculator does.  They had no choice but to get the most out of what they had.

Since then, as computers have gotten faster and have gained resources that would have boggled the minds of programmers of that era, programmers have gotten lazy.  With the advent of Languages like Java and the .Net CLR, programmers have been allowed to ignore, for the most part, all the low-level things like Memory Management.  For little apps, this isn't much of an issue.  Why worry about a program using 10MB of Ram when most systems have at least 2GB?  The answer is simple.  Just because they have Ram, doesn't mean that they have FREE Ram.  Don't forget, you don't just have your program running, you have the overhead of an OS to deal with, and Windows is not programmed very well in the Resource Management Department to begin with, and the overhead of any other program that is currently running.

Take that program that is using 10MB of Ram as an example of the laziness that has crept over modern programmers.  With a bit of time, the program in question could be made to use only 1MB of Ram.  How you ask?  Quite simply, by using the Memory correctly, and by only using what you actually need.  A program does not need to send a copy of an object to a method when a Reference would do just as well.  A program does not need to use an Int32 for a number that will never go above 65,535.  An UnSigned Int16 would do fine in that case or if the number is less than 255, an Unsigned Int8.  Every little bit counts when it comes to Memory.  Think of all the Objects that a game contains.  Think of all the Memory that is wasted by improper use of Types.

As to how Divergence can look better, Better Management of the Video Memory comes to mind.  If someone has a good grasp of the concept, it isn't hard to show more for less.  Take the end of the Video where he is going around with his friend.  You see him turn up the Draw Distance and see quite a lot.  Even I was astonished by the view.  Then I thought of how it could be done.  My best guess is that he programmed it to take into account the distance and what you actually see.  If you were looking at it in Real Life, think of what you see, and what you actually don't.  If you program your Renderer to only show what a player can actually see, and program it to show it in a definition that corresponds with the distance, and to ignore rendering what the player can't, you can have a High level of detail at minimal Memory Costs.  You don't need to see the blades of grass of a hill 300 meters away.

This is fine and all for someone standing still, you say.  How can it still be like that for a person that is moving?  My answer, Pre-Rendering.  The engine knows where a player is, it knows where it is looking, and it knows where it is going.  If I know a player is moving at x speed in y direction, I can begin the process of Rendering the view ahead in higher detail and lowering the detail behind.  

Now, all this isn't to say that any person will be able to run the game at the maximum Draw distance and definition.  Most people won't since their computers are not up for it.  But there is nothing to say that next year or the year after, hardware able to do so will be cheap enough for you to buy.  So, Modern games are created to run on less powerful hardware.  (It is a method of giving everyone the same experience when playing.)


TL;DR:  

Most programmers don't use Ram wisely and Most computers wouldn't be able to run such high-end graphics so Programmers don't bother.

 Thanks for the post, it's a good read and I understand what you're coming with the topic. But I think it's quite unbelievable that the quality in his alpha far surpasses that of anything that has been currently released. Maybe I'll just have to see it to believe it in the end.

 As I said earlier, best of luck to the developer and their game but I'll wait and see what happens.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  RexGarvin

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/10
Posts: 25

4/01/13 9:23:42 AM#16
All of you who give money to a game before its finished are fools. 
  HikaruShidou

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/07
Posts: 128

4/01/13 1:52:21 PM#17
Originally posted by RexGarvin
All of you who give money to a game before its finished are fools. 

Why, because we support indie game companies that make titles better than the shitty AAA companies like EA?

It's a risk of course, but I've seen better indie games. Take Natural Selection 2 for example. That was purely funded on pre-orders and such and it's one of the best games ever made.

  LordVe

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/13
Posts: 4

4/01/13 3:34:01 PM#18
Originally posted by RexGarvin
All of you who give money to a game before its finished are fools. 

How do you think Indie games get off the ground?  I have no problem suppporting games like this, even when there is nothing yet to actually do with it, as they are alway worth it in the end.

  bcbully

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7260

4/01/13 3:37:23 PM#19
can't wait to check it out.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  flizzer

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1236

4/01/13 3:41:03 PM#20
I accidentally clicked on the link at the bottom of the page one day and found out about this game.  I agree the features sound interesting, but when I found it is mainly the work of one guy I lost interest.  I don't see how one guy really can pull all this together. Huge companies with large numbers of people usually can't do it.  We all need our dreams I suppose, but I would be amazed if this ever launched with everything claimed.
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